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Didn`t Expect This.....


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#1 ayrton2388

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 11:10 AM

I was so damn excited about Etem this season. I was even hoping to make the Ducks team. I thought he`d be tearing AHL apart. But in 6 games, he got no points. Really expected more.

When do you guys think he`ll turn around? when will he start scoring? What do you think makes it so hard for him now?
Is it because the level of AHL got better, with some serious NHL talent going back down there? or what?

#2 Hopewell17

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 05:19 PM

I've watched all 6 Norfolk games this year. Etem's playing 8-10 minutes per game on the third line. He's getting very little power play time. The Norfolk coaches have decided to give most of the Right and Left Wing minutes to Palmieri, Maroon, DSP and Mitchell. Guys like Etem, Lasch, Rosehill and Caputi have to take what scraps they can get. Vatanen has been by far the most impressive youngster on the Admirals. Lindholm is ok but Vatanen is great. Holland has looked very good. Elkins and Bodie are some older guys who never get mentioned as potential NHL/Duck players, but they look pretty good to me.

#3 Hopewell17

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 08:44 PM

I have confidence he will start lighting the lamp soon enough.

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I have confidence in him also but if Etem is only playing 8 minutes of 5 on 5 hockey every game he won't score many goals. All that he can do is accept his role and do eveything the coaches ask. Aryton is frustrated over the 0 points in 6 games, but if Etem busts his rear in his 3rd line role then there's no cause for frustration. If Etem is a future star then there's frustration if Norfolk is slow at developing players. I assume the Norfolk coaches tell their 3rd and 4th line players that they'll be rewarded with more minutes if they do everything asked of them in their current roles. All else being equal, or close to equal, the Ducks want the Admirals to promote the 20-year-old over the 25-year-old, which must be maddening to the 25-year-olds.

#4 Kanauhtli

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 10:00 PM

I have confidence in him also but if Etem is only playing 8 minutes of 5 on 5 hockey every game he won't score many goals. All that he can do is accept his role and do eveything the coaches ask. Aryton is frustrated over the 0 points in 6 games, but if Etem busts his rear in his 3rd line role then there's no cause for frustration. If Etem is a future star then there's frustration if Norfolk is slow at developing players. I assume the Norfolk coaches tell their 3rd and 4th line players that they'll be rewarded with more minutes if they do everything asked of them in their current roles. All else being equal, or close to equal, the Ducks want the Admirals to promote the 20-year-old over the 25-year-old, which must be maddening to the 25-year-olds.


In fairness players like Maroon, Holland, and Palmieri are NHL ready and would be playing in Anaheim not Norfolk. The coaching staff shouldn't be expecting Etem to be tearing it up right now because he's having a limited role. Top six players sometimes do not do well as role players because they feel outside their element. I doubt Anaheim is dictating Etem's minutes too much but I'm sure if the lockout ends those top players in Norfolk will get bumped up to the NHL and players like Lasch and Etem will get more minutes. Plus the expectation of Etem was too high because of his hot year in the WHL.

#5 Sojourn

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 04:56 PM

I was so damn excited about Etem this season. I was even hoping to make the Ducks team. I thought he`d be tearing AHL apart. But in 6 games, he got no points. Really expected more.

When do you guys think he`ll turn around? when will he start scoring? What do you think makes it so hard for him now?
Is it because the level of AHL got better, with some serious NHL talent going back down there? or what?


He just needs to learn to play the game at the professional level. He's used to being the biggest, strongest, faster guy on the ice and that's no longer the case.

#6 Sojourn

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 04:56 PM

And minutes aren't what is holding Etem back.

#7 nieder

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 04:57 PM

I think it is pretty clear so far that guys like Palmieri, Maroon and Holland are more NHL ready than Etem is. If we actually get an NHL season those guys are going to get their shot.

#8 Sojourn

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 05:00 PM

I've watched all 6 Norfolk games this year. Etem's playing 8-10 minutes per game on the third line. He's getting very little power play time. The Norfolk coaches have decided to give most of the Right and Left Wing minutes to Palmieri, Maroon, DSP and Mitchell. Guys like Etem, Lasch, Rosehill and Caputi have to take what scraps they can get. Vatanen has been by far the most impressive youngster on the Admirals. Lindholm is ok but Vatanen is great. Holland has looked very good. Elkins and Bodie are some older guys who never get mentioned as potential NHL/Duck players, but they look pretty good to me.


I must be watching a different Lindholm than you. He's been great. Plays a very cerebral game, has been a stud in the D zone, terrific skater, makes good decisions, etc... the only thing I'd count against him right now is that he could probably do more offensively, but I think that will come with time and confidence. Long-term? I think Lindholm will end up being the better, more complete defenseman. He reminds me a lot of OEL, in the way he plays.

Vatanen has been terrific offensively, but in terms of a complete game I think the Ducks will want to see more. Offense alone isn't enough in the NHL for a defenseman.

#9 Sojourn

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 05:04 PM

I think it is pretty clear so far that guys like Palmieri, Maroon and Holland are more NHL ready than Etem is. If we actually get an NHL season those guys are going to get their shot.


Which was always the case, but some people were giving Etem's CHL numbers a bit too much weight when considering him for an NHL spot. Etem is a great young player, but he was basically a man amongst boys down there, and that was going to change as soon as he took the step into Pro hockey. He'll be fine, but I imagine the Ducks and Norfolk are going to be trying to build a better all-around game. The Ducks aren't going to want a player who is invisible if he isn't scoring. Players just can't get away with that in the NHL, unless they can put up huge numbers.

#10 Hopewell17

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 07:44 PM

I must be watching a different Lindholm than you. He's been great. Plays a very cerebral game, has been a stud in the D zone, terrific skater, makes good decisions, etc... the only thing I'd count against him right now is that he could probably do more offensively, but I think that will come with time and confidence. Long-term? I think Lindholm will end up being the better, more complete defenseman. He reminds me a lot of OEL, in the way he plays.

Vatanen has been terrific offensively, but in terms of a complete game I think the Ducks will want to see more. Offense alone isn't enough in the NHL for a defenseman.


If Lindholm was especially cerebral on the ice, I was too dense to see it - I don't claim to be a professional talent evaluator - but I like to think I can spot both glaring errors and exceptional plays. I wasn't disparaging the 18-year-old Lindholm by saying he was merely ok. I meant he looked like a solid pro player - I didn't see any big errors but I didn't see anything exceptionally skillful from him. Whereas I think the 21-year-old Vatanen is very special in his offensive skill. If you're right, if Lindholm becomes better than Vatanen, then the Ducks will have at least two very good defensemen in the future.

About Etem. 61 goals in 65 WHL games doesn't prove he will succeed in the NHL, but it must prove something! I don't see any sense in him trying to reinvent his game. Of course he should try to improve on his weaknesses as best he can, but it would be crazy for him to neglect what he does best: driving hard to the net and trying to draw a penalty if he doesn't score. It's so essential for winning in pro hockey to get those precious two minute man advantages.

About playing time for the Admirals' roster. I watched DSP take a shift that was nearly 2 and 1/2 minutes long, whereas Elkins, Rosehill, Bodie, Etem, Lasch, McMillian etc., etc. get 45 seconds at the most, and those guys look just as good as Palmieri and DSP. Maroon is exceptional with his big frame, and he probably can get more goals around the net than anyone else on the team. I know how many points Palmieri and DSP had last year. Some other guys might be able to prove some things if they are given the minutes to do so.

Elkins had a hat trick in one game. Bodie had a Gordie How hat trick. McMillian looks fast and he has a great slap shot.

From the first 6 games I don't recall much scoring by our guys when it was 5 on 5. When we did score at even strength it generally was a garbage-type goal - someone knocked the puck in during a scrum in front of the goalie. I recall Mitchell making a beautiful shot on a breakaway just after he was sprung from the penalty box. This was probably the second most spectacular goal the Admirals scored in the first 6 games. The best goal came on a power play when Vatanen unleashed a lazer of a slap shot that went just over the goalie's shoulder and just under the crossbar.

The guys getting the majority of the power play minutes will be getting most of the points for the Admirals. From what I've seen, again I'm no professional scout, it looks, talent-wise, like a very balanced team. If Elkins, Bodie, McMillian, Etem and Vatanen were getting the majority of the power play minutes, I suspect the Admirals would still be 5-1, or perhaps either 6-0 or 4-2.

I suppose there will be a common theme among lots of AHL teams while the lockout lasts. There will be fierce battles for playing time between the highly publicized young prospects and the ageing ex-NHLers fighting to make it back to the big league.

#11 Kings_Attack

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 07:54 PM

Could it just be his linemates are incredibly weak? I mean, I just don't see 0 pts. in 6 games even on a third line (4th line, maybe) for a very talented guy.

I am assuming that the 3rd line plays against others' third lines so the quality of competition especially in teh AHL ought to be way weaker, n'est-ce pas?

#12 Hopewell17

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 09:00 PM

Could it just be his linemates are incredibly weak? I mean, I just don't see 0 pts. in 6 games even on a third line (4th line, maybe) for a very talented guy.

I am assuming that the 3rd line plays against others' third lines so the quality of competition especially in teh AHL ought to be way weaker, n'est-ce pas?

Au contraire. His linemates are solid enough. The AHL has lots of ex-NHLers in it. For instance Cris Kreider, who played great for the Rangers last year in the playoffs, is playing in the AHL. He injured Brandon McMillian by slamming him into the boards in the first or second game for Admirals this year. Norfolk has lots of ex-Nhlers, as do other AHL teams.

Etem's games as I see it is this: he's bigger and stronger but just a fast as speedy defensemen, so they can't knock him off the puck when he drives to the net. And he's faster than the big defenseman, so they can't catch him when he drives to the net. He has a fine wrist shot (I've never seen him take a slap shot) but his game is to draw penalties or score goals on rushes, or feed open teammates on these rushes. He had a bad rush against St. John's where he looked very tentative. All he has to do is size up the defensman he's going against. If the defenseman is smaller than him, then Etem should use his speed and and his muscle to get to the net. If the defenseman is bigger than him, he should still use mostly his speed to get to the net. If he doesn't score he stands a good chance of drawing a penalty. It may be that he'll need to add another 10 pounds of muscle, without losing any speed, muscle which will of course make it harder for big defensemen to push him around not only on rushes but when he is just playing in front of the goal, before his game will succeed in a big way in the NHL.

#13 Hopewell17

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 07:34 AM

I think it is pretty clear so far that guys like Palmieri, Maroon and Holland are more NHL ready than Etem is. If we actually get an NHL season those guys are going to get their shot.

The question with Etem is: can he consistently carry the puck into the offensive zone and generate scoring opportunities? If a winger can't do this then he has to dump and chase, and the dump and chase method is only so-so at generating scoring chances. Etem has the potential to be great at carrying the puck into the zone. The `NHL ready wingers'- Marroon, DSP, Palmieri etc. must dump and chase. Holland has some ability to carry it in. In order for Etem to become NHL ready he must become more aggressive on his rushes, but he must also be smart and drop the puck off to a trailing player, or try to make a cross ice pass, or maybe cycle it in the corner when he senses the defenseman is about to shut him down. There's a very fine line between drawing a penalty / getting a good shot on goal and getting shut down.

#14 Kings_Attack

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 04:31 PM

He just scored his first goal! I knew this was the night he'd score (in fact, predicted the very shift). Awesome stuff.

#15 Kings_Attack

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 05:20 PM

Looks like he picked up a 2nd!

#16 Hopewell17

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 06:25 PM

He just scored his first goal! I knew this was the night he'd score (in fact, predicted the very shift). Awesome stuff.

Etem's second goal was really awesome. I forgot how good his wrist shot is. But the Admirals were fortunate to even make this game close. Binghamton rang 5 shots off the post. There was a point in the 3rd period where the guys showed some real energy on the forecheck but for most of the game it seemed like the Admirals were on cruise control, and they assumed their edge in talent would give them the win. To harp some more on the playing time issue, this was the second or third straight game that Lasch was scratched. I like DSP a lot but he's on the 1st line, and he's on the 1st power play unit, and he's on the 1st penalty kill unit...Gross disparities in playing time can't be good for team karma. Lasch only won the Finnish Elite League Scoring Title last year. You'd think he would be worthy of some decent minutes with the Norfolk Admirals.

#17 Sojourn

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 06:33 PM

Bad game for Vatanen, and a pretty unimpressive night for Norfolk all-around... was nice to see Etem pot his first(and second) goal. On top of the goals, he had a couple of good shifts too. Hopefully this is a confidence builder for him.

#18 Kings_Attack

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 06:34 PM

Yep, pretty fortuitous game for the Ads. What's your take on Bobkov? I had high hopes for him since watching him help Russia upset Canada years back but he routinely looks shaky (I've heard it said that if multiple shots go off the post, your goalie isn't doing too well; it's an axiom I kinda buy into).

#19 Sojourn

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 06:45 PM

Yep, pretty fortuitous game for the Ads. What's your take on Bobkov? I had high hopes for him since watching him help Russia upset Canada years back but he routinely looks shaky (I've heard it said that if multiple shots go off the post, your goalie isn't doing too well; it's an axiom I kinda buy into).


He's been inconsistent. I thought he had a great game last week, and then he followed it up with this one where he looked pretty bad. He was fighting the puck all night. Bad rebounds, pucks getting past him, and he looked uncomfortable a lot. As a player, I don't think you ever want to start pointing the finger at the goalie, but it can definitely shake your confidence when he just doesn't look sharp that night.

#20 Kings_Attack

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 08:59 PM

He's been inconsistent. I thought he had a great game last week, and then he followed it up with this one where he looked pretty bad. He was fighting the puck all night. Bad rebounds, pucks getting past him, and he looked uncomfortable a lot. As a player, I don't think you ever want to start pointing the finger at the goalie, but it can definitely shake your confidence when he just doesn't look sharp that night.

He also had a pretty poor one, too (if it was last week; I think the Ads were up 4-1 or something and had to squeak out the win in OT/SO.

As a spectator, I agree with your statement. Might start playing myself and find out the defense-goalie dynamics through experience.





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