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Didn`t Expect This.....


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#21 Sojourn

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 09:34 PM

He also had a pretty poor one, too (if it was last week; I think the Ads were up 4-1 or something and had to squeak out the win in OT/SO.

As a spectator, I agree with your statement. Might start playing myself and find out the defense-goalie dynamics through experience.


As a defenseman, the goalie is like your little brother. You protect him, and take care of him when you can. You just need to be careful about trying to do his job for him, because that's when you start focusing too much on his job and not enough on yours. As your little brother though, he needs to treat you with respect. I've played with a few goalies who were quick to point the finger at the team in front of him for a soft goal they allowed, and that can really start to screw with the team mentality. A goalie might be one of the most important players on the ice, but every player is equal in the locker room.

Edited by Sojourn, 02 November 2012 - 09:42 PM.


#22 Kings_Attack

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 09:36 PM

Actually, I might prefer forward if I do start playing (can a small guy ever possibly play D, even in non-contact? I've not seen it).

But I agree entirely; if an opponent snowed the goalie, I'd take the 2 minute instigator. If he jabs at a "loose puck" long after the whistle blows, he can count on getting his jersey pulled over his head.

Edited by Quack_Attack, 02 November 2012 - 09:37 PM.


#23 Sojourn

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 09:51 PM

Actually, I might prefer forward if I do start playing (can a small guy ever possibly play D, even in non-contact? I've not seen it).

But I agree entirely; if an opponent snowed the goalie, I'd take the 2 minute instigator. If he jabs at a "loose puck" long after the whistle blows, he can count on getting his jersey pulled over his head.


A small guy can do it, but you really need to have the mobility to make up for your size disadvantage. You lose out on reach, and strength in the corners and in front of the net, but if you can get in tight on a player and close the gap, the reach advantage won't be an issue, and being able to skate the puck out of trouble can mitigate the strength issue(not to mention, since we're talking about a rec league, size and strength don't always go together). If you're not a particularly good skater, I definitely wouldn't recommend defense if you're on the small side. I wouldn't recommend it at any size, if you're not a good skater, but you'll definitely see some bigger guys back there who are basically pylons to skate around.

#24 smrliga

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 11:05 AM

I have confidence in him also but if Etem is only playing 8 minutes of 5 on 5 hockey every game he won't score many goals. All that he can do is accept his role and do eveything the coaches ask. Aryton is frustrated over the 0 points in 6 games, but if Etem busts his rear in his 3rd line role then there's no cause for frustration. If Etem is a future star then there's frustration if Norfolk is slow at developing players. I assume the Norfolk coaches tell their 3rd and 4th line players that they'll be rewarded with more minutes if they do everything asked of them in their current roles. All else being equal, or close to equal, the Ducks want the Admirals to promote the 20-year-old over the 25-year-old, which must be maddening to the 25-year-olds.

Nice to see Etem get more minutes and it sure made a difference. The coaching staff is rewarding him and he is making the most of it, he definitely looked a little more relaxed.

#25 duxfan1101

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 03:42 PM

Lindholm with his first goal just now!

#26 Sojourn

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 05:29 PM

Palmieri, Holland, and Lindholm have just been awesome tonight.

#27 Sojourn

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 07:13 PM

Forgot to add: Another disappointing game for Vatanen. This has been a rough weekend for him. Hopefully he bounces back next game.

Also, Etem was better last night, but he had a couple of shifts tonight where he looked good. It's progress. He just needs to keep taking steps in the right direction.

Edited by Sojourn, 03 November 2012 - 07:14 PM.


#28 ZTHER

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 10:49 PM

He just needs to learn to play the game at the professional level. He's used to being the biggest, strongest, faster guy on the ice and that's no longer the case.


I think we discussed that when he was drafted along with Fowler... how different the two were in terms of where they both were with their development.

#29 ZTHER

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 10:51 PM

Forgot to add: Another disappointing game for Vatanen. This has been a rough weekend for him. Hopefully he bounces back next game.

Also, Etem was better last night, but he had a couple of shifts tonight where he looked good. It's progress. He just needs to keep taking steps in the right direction.


Interested in your take on Lindholm. I for one think Vatanen is at least a year away.

#30 Sojourn

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 11:31 PM

Interested in your take on Lindholm. I for one think Vatanen is at least a year away.


I'm actually really excited about what I've seen from Lindholm so far. The way he plays the game, the poise, his skating, his hockey smarts, and just his overall presence on the ice reminds me a lot of OEL or Pietrangelo(I'm not sure he has quite their upside). I'm not certain yet where his offensive game fits, in that comparison, and it's important to remember the sample size we're talking about, but I see a lot of those two players in his game. It wouldn't even surprise me to see Lindholm get a call before Vatanen, because his game just seems better suited to the NHL right now, There is still plenty of room for growth, but the way he plays will probably allow him to make that jump more seamlessly. With Lindholm, it feels like the more I see him, the better he looks. I don't think stats do this kid justice.

I agree with you on Vatanen. I know our Finnish friends love him, but his game seems really one-dimensional right now. If he isn't a force on offense he's just not that impressive, and I think you need to get more from a defenseman in the NHL in this day and age. Also, he's already running into trouble at times in the AHL in the D zone. Not just with his decisions, but battling in the corners. I've seen a number of plays where he is actually bouncing off of opponents, because he's just not big enough, or strong enough to win the puck. This is something that would only get worse in the NHL, He's got serious talent on the offensive side of the game, and I could see him called up to play on the PP, but I think he needs a bit of time to round out his game. Right now he's defined by his offensive numbers, and I just don't think that is enough. If he were called up, I think he would be best used in a sheltered role, with lots of offensive starts. That might let him dip his toe in the water, but I really do think a year in the AHL would be better for him.

For the record, I've also been pretty happy with Holland and Palmieri too.

#31 Sojourn

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 07:53 PM

You like what you say, Moose? ;)

#32 Hopewell17

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 11:13 AM

And minutes aren't what is holding Etem back.

Etem's got three times as many goals as DSP and yet he has played a third of the minutes that DSP has played. DSP has more points, but he plays on the first line, and on the first power play unit, and on the first penalty kill unit. I know you agree that DSP was unfairly advanced at the expense of Palmieri, when DSP made the Duck's roster last year and Palmieri was shipped off to the minors. DSP was also unfairly promoted over Holland. This year DSP is being unfairly advanced over Caputi, Bodie, Elkins, Lasch and Etem. These six players should all be getting about the same minutes. One might also say Mitchell and Rosehill deserve to be in that group. It has to be detrimental to team chemisty and the Duck's organization to have such favoritism, to have a 20-year-old who hasn't earned his minutes take all the minutes. He is no way near as physical as Bodie. He is no way near as fast as Etem. Perhaps management thinks that by playing mind games with players they will toughen them up psychologically. More likely they will create ill will and demands to be traded. The Ducks are not being unfair when they shop Bobby Ryan. The Ducks were horrible last year. When you're horrible, what else can you do but fire the coach or trade a player with high trade value? But to continually promote one player over equal or better players, that is both crazy and unfair.

#33 Kings_Attack

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 12:11 PM

There's a lot of love for Bodie here on the message boards but I gotta say, from what I've seen of him, he's an inconsistent AHL player and a cut above mediocre in the NHL. I can't see him doing much but a spot job on the 4th line abd Caputi is similarly held in an inexplicably high regard where it looked like the acquistion was to move a bust Deschamps. I hope I am wrong but if these are the kinda guys whom the Ducks look to the future for depth, I see another 2009-2010 season or first half of last season coming up.

#34 Hopewell17

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 02:45 PM

There's a lot of love for Bodie here on the message boards but I gotta say, from what I've seen of him, he's an inconsistent AHL player and a cut above mediocre in the NHL. I can't see him doing much but a spot job on the 4th line abd Caputi is similarly held in an inexplicably high regard where it looked like the acquistion was to move a bust Deschamps. I hope I am wrong but if these are the kinda guys whom the Ducks look to the future for depth, I see another 2009-2010 season or first half of last season coming up.

My point is that the Duck's/Admirals should be trying to show that they are an organization that will give every player a fair shot. This will help their chances to land free agents and to retain their own free agents, and it will stifle locker room turmoil and ill will. It may be that Bodie and Caputi are not going to be much in the NHL, but if they are busting their rears in practice and in games, and are showing they are the equal of some other players who are getting lots of ice time, then Bodie and Caputi need to be rewarded with more ice time. Aside from basic justice and fairness, if Anaheim gets a reputation for not giving players a fair shot, this will hurt the Anaheim Ducks when it tries to compete with other teams in free agency, and of course it makes no sense for a team that wants to win to create a backbiting locker room. If Bodie is, as you say, a cut above mediocre in the NHL, then he needs to be playing the same minutes as every other player on the Norfolk Admirals who is a cut above mediocre in the NHL. I can see why the Norfolk coaches would give Brandon McMillian more ice time than his points say he deserves, in order to get him jump started out of his slump, and I think McMillian, Holland, Palmieri, Marroon, Mitchell, Bodie, Caputi, Lasch, Elkins, Smith-Pelly and Etem should all be getting about the same number of minutes, assuming they are all giving 100% effort in practices and games.

#35 poum

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 08:36 PM

What's with the Admirals? I haven't seen any games but do check out theirs scores. Seems there's been a string of losing recently. I see Hollands name mentioned frequently, sounds like he's been tearing it up in the A.

Any progress on Etem. Sounded like had a slow start. And hasn't done since as well.

#36 poum

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 06:22 PM

Another 5-2 loss. This is getting redundant.

#37 Hopewell17

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 01:06 PM

I was so damn excited about Etem this season. I was even hoping to make the Ducks team. I thought he`d be tearing AHL apart. But in 6 games, he got no points. Really expected more.

When do you guys think he`ll turn around? when will he start scoring? What do you think makes it so hard for him now?
Is it because the level of AHL got better, with some serious NHL talent going back down there? or what?

I've watched every Norfolk Admirals game except for one that began at 8:00 am PST. Etem has improved dramatically over the last month, and the coaches have rewarded him with more playing time. He was on the 1st line the other night. He's much more aggressive on the forecheck than he was at the beginning of the season, and with his size and speed he ought to be a great forechecker. I've mentioned New Jersey's great 4th line of Carter, Gionta and Bernier. I think Etem and DSP could be the wingers on a dynamic Ducks 4th line next year that can generate offense off of aggressive forechecking, and perhaps be good enough to rival the New Jersey line.

It's tough to tell from the less than high definition quality of the AHL.com feed just how soft are some of the goals that Bobkov and Andersen have given up, but I'd say that defensive lapses, and goaltenders giving up soft goals, rather than offensive ineptitude, have been the main reason for the Admirals' losing streak, which is now at 6 or 7 games. Bobkov is only 21 but he's not generating much optimism.

Palmieri and Holland have both played very well offensively. Nothing to worry about with the development of these two. Marroon has not been scoring much lately but when he's on the ice Norfolk seems to control the puck more than the opposition does.

McMillian hasn't done much on the stat sheet but he's making good offensive plays and is strong on the forecheck. He has had some bad luck and has rung the puck off the post a few times. He and Chris Wagner are in a battle to see who is the second best center on the team after Holland.

I'm very high on Vatanen. Lindholm, considering he's only an 18-year-old, has played well. I would have chosen Dumba at #6 but I hope Hampus and the Ducks' management prove me wrong.

#38 Hopewell17

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 03:38 PM

P.S. Bobkov's Goals Against Average is 3.99 and Andersen's is 2.81.

Palmieri, DSP and Mat Clark all have a -10 rating in their +/-. They're on the ice a lot so when our goalies give up soft goals then they'll suffer for it. Nate Guenin has a + 8, but if he has been markedly better defenseman than Mat Clark I haven't noticed it.

Vatanen is a - 7, Lindholm is + 2 and Etem is -1.

Marroon plays the same number of minutes as Palmieri and DSP, yet his +/- is only -2.

Perhaps someone who analysizes these things more than I do can tell us if Palmieri, DSP and Mat Clark are doing something wrong in their defensive play.

#39 Hopewell17

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 07:26 PM

Pretty exciting stuff in the game between Norfolk and Albany tonight. Norfolk's down 1-0 late in the third. We pull our goalie, Bobkov. Rod Pelly wins three straight face-offs. Etem scores with 33 seconds to go in regulation, assists to Marroon and Vatanen. Right at the start of overtime, Etem takes the puck and skates hard to the net and puts it home - 6 seconds into OT. 2 goals in less than 40 seconds. The Norfolk coaches put him on the first line, for the first time - with Marroon and Holland - so it was good to see him respond and play with confidence. Bobkov has turned it around also and is playing with confidence. He almost had a shutout last night.

#40 cyduck

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 11:01 AM

Well Etem is only 20? 21? I honestly didn't understand the logic when people said be could be in the NHL this year. I think he needs a year or two in the AHL where he wont be the go to scorer I think next year he will play 20 some games in the NHL but in 2014-2015 he will be a top 4 forward in Anaheim





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