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ZTHER

Kings Catch All Thread

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Sadly, I don't really share your optimism of the Kings' demise. They'll probably lose Regehr in the summer, but otherwise I could see them returning basically the same team again next season. The more interesting summer for them will be 2014, when Dustin Brown's and Matt Greene's contracts expire. But still I think they are one of the few teams that could really benefit from the pre-lockout contract structures of Richards and Carter, because those guys will still be in their mid to late 30s when their current deals expire. Meanwhile, the combined cap figures of Richards and Carter will stay about $6M below what Getz/Pears will be making combined, which is almost equivalent to Kopitar's cap figure. I don't believe that Carter or Richards have no trade clauses either.

 

No, the Kings are actually in pretty good shape for the short and long term.  :angry:

 

I hope you're wrong, that would be maddening. They have some pretty sweet deals with Carter and Richards, even Doughty's is pretty nice. Kopitar is fair, Brown is a bargain until he gets a raise year after next. Quick as well, great deal for what they get from him. I supose you're right with the core, but many of the younger role players on offense, and the bottom pairing guys could cause them some issues. Many are going RFA, and while they might not get multi-million dollar raises, it could certainly add up with the cap situation rolling back next year. 

 

Next year they have UFA's: Penner (who could be looking to cash in on his back-to-back strong postseasons, now that he's out of the NHL dog house), Richardson, Regehr, and Scuderi. And RFA's: Clifford, Lewis, Nolan, Voynov, Martinez, Ellerby, Muzzin, and goalie Bernier.

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Regehr just re-signed. 2 more years at $3mil each.

 

It's a bad sign when big time UFAs start taking pay cuts to remain with your mortal enemies. Geez, what's next? Scuderi re-signs for the league minimum??

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Regehr just re-signed. 2 more years at $3mil each.

 

It's a bad sign when big time UFAs start taking pay cuts to remain with your mortal enemies. Geez, what's next? Scuderi re-signs for the league minimum??

 

That's a strong move by Lombardi.

 

DTS is right, LA is in good shape through next season. Lombardi stuck to his guns, sucked long and hard enough the same way Pittsburgh and Chicago did, caught some decent breaks, but overall set the table very well...

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That's a strong move by Lombardi.

 

DTS is right, LA is in good shape through next season. Lombardi stuck to his guns, sucked long and hard enough the same way Pittsburgh and Chicago did, caught some decent breaks, but overall set the table very well...

 

Not really challenging what you (or Dts) are saying, but looking at their cap/payroll for next year doesn't look so smooth to me, I have them at minimum ~$71M next season without giving anyone more than marginal raises. Am I looking at it wrong? Here's how I see it (with the help of Capgeek):

 

Penner will be UFA. I don't see him playing again on a short term deal for a substantial discount. Right now he has maxed out his value based on his age, recent SC ring, and back-to-back great post season performances. I see him looking for his pay day this summer while the gettin's good. He may take a slight discount to stay in LA, but that discount still looks like $5M + and a longer term to me. Not sure LA can afford Penner at that rate, and they will not be the same team in the playoffs without him.

 

Regehr re-signed at a discount for $3M. A great deal especially if Greene and Mitchell are healthy, that makes a scary shutdown blueline all at a discount. It's good insurance in the event Mitchell isn't 100% heading into next year. But it could mean less money for young contributors like Voynov or Muzzin, unless they can shed salary elsewhere.

 

Scuderi is a UFA finishing a 4 year/$3.4M per deal. I don't see a huge raise or discount there worth speculating. If he re-signs, I see him getting a similar pay day, possibly a bit more though Regehr just made his life difficult establishing his market value. LA might see fit to let him walk, but just like Penner, they are still good, but these solid depth guys add up and force them to lean a little more on the cheaper young guys. They lose a little punch. But for the sake of argument I'll assume Scuderi is a wash, re-signs at the same rate.

 

Voynov is an RFA. I see rumors that he is close to signing, and knowing DL I expect to be jealous of the good deal he works out. But speculating, I see Slava getting a pretty good raise no matter what the term. He could get a bit more ($4-5M+) if he signs a shorter "bridge the gap" type of deal, or a little less ($3.5-4M+) if he signs a longer deal. I'm expecting the latter, especially because it will help with cap relief when trying to sign Captain Diver next year. 

 

Muzzin (RFA) will need a pay raise as well. He may not be in the same category as Voynov, but he was leaned on quite a bit more than I'm sure LA wanted to with Greene and Mitchell out, but it allowed Muzzin to show his stuff, and unless I'm mistaken he has been a key fixture on the PP. I don't see him getting a big payday, but a slight raise would be in order. I'm guessing $1.5-2M per.

 

Clifford (RFA) is similar to Belesky to me. Pretty much a 4th liner, who commands 4th liner pay, but this year he has provided much more than a 4th line role. In the playoffs so far, Clifford has been used on the top line at times, and on the PP as well. This alone might make him feel entitled to a bit more money. I don't see a huge raise in order, but I could see him holding out for $1-1.5M.

 

I suppose the same logic I used with Clifford could apply to the other remaining FA's like Lewis, Richardson, Nolan, Martinez and Ellerby. But those guys are role players that generally play within their roles. I see them all re-signing at around the same rate.

 

Goalie Bernier (RFA) is an interesting case. He's arguably good enough to start pushing for a #1 or 1B type of role, and I really have no clue what they do with him. I see rumors that he could be moved, rumors that he will get a decent payday, and rumors that he re-signs at a very slight raise to allow LA to benefit from a solid, cheap backup for the next several years. Maybe someone has a better idea here. I'm just going to take a shot on the dark and say he re-signs for 2-3 years at $1.5M per.

 

So, based on these guesstimations, LA has $53.5M in salary already signed for next season, and ~$20M in raises/re-signings due if I use the most conservative number in each of my guesstimations. This puts them $9M+ over next year's salary cap...

 

Am I that far off ???

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AD, I think you're a little high on Voynov's money. If Fowler got only $4M per season, there's no way Voynov gets more than that. My guess would be $2-2.5M for his next cap hit, with a longer term contract that escalates in value over the term (similar to Sbisa's current deal).

 

I also think that Penner is not going to be a King next season. He is not producing in these playoffs like he was last season, and he only potted 2 goals during the regular season. I've also seen him "tap himself out" several times during these playoffs, which can't be going over well with the coach. Expect Penner's $3.25M to come off their books in July.

 

Lastly, I read that the Regehr signing is probably a sign that Willie Mitchell will be moved in the off season. I suspect Lombardi will make a move with him similar to Visnovsky's departure last season from the Ducks (minus the drama, of course).

 

Those three moves should clear enough space.

 

btw, if you're looking at capgeek for the numbers, keep in mind that right now the rosters are expanded and the Kings are carrying 26 players (including 9 D-men) on their active roster.  They won't be able to have all of those players on the active roster when the next season starts.

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AD, I think you're a little high on Voynov's money. If Fowler got only $4M per season, there's no way Voynov gets more than that. My guess would be $2-2.5M for his next cap hit, with a longer term contract that escalates in value over the term (similar to Sbisa's current deal).

 

I also think that Penner is not going to be a King next season. He is not producing in these playoffs like he was last season, and he only potted 2 goals during the regular season. I've also seen him "tap himself out" several times during these playoffs, which can't be going over well with the coach. Expect Penner's $3.25M to come off their books in July.

 

Lastly, I read that the Regehr signing is probably a sign that Willie Mitchell will be moved in the off season. I suspect Lombardi will make a move with him similar to Visnovsky's departure last season from the Ducks (minus the drama, of course).

 

Those three moves should clear enough space.

 

btw, if you're looking at capgeek for the numbers, keep in mind that right now the rosters are expanded and the Kings are carrying 26 players (including 9 D-men) on their active roster.  They won't be able to have all of those players on the active roster when the next season starts.

 

Here's an article I came across that touches on some of this: http://lakingsinsider.com/2013/05/30/regehrs-extension-affects-roster-decisions/#more-34031

 

Even if I do end up being too high on some of those figures, it still adds up to cap issues unless the Kings let go of a couple of fairly significant players. Even the losses of Penner and Mitchell make them less of a team than last year, and slightly less of a team than this year (I think Penner has been better than the stats reflect). Next year they need to re-sign Brown and Greene, that could mean trimming even more salary from somewhere in the lineup. 

 

I think they will be a very good team over the next few years even if they have to lose a few peripheral players, but I think the salary cap era prevents teams from having a very long Cup window. LA won't immediately see the level of fallout that many previous Cup winners did (Chicago comes to mind), but I think it's already evident that they aren't quite the dominant team they were last year even if they do still have a legit shot to repeat. Losing a little more next year takes them down even another slight notch. Their core is solid, they've nailed it there, but I see them relying more heavily on the cheap young guys to fill out the depth roles moving forward. They should be a solid playoff team for years to come, that's all any franchise can ask for, but I really only see them as true contenders last season (duh), and this season. I think each year after this they will be more on par with other good teams in the west.

 

I'm trying to spin this into something that gives me hope, work with me here Dlaw!  :lol:

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Kings are going to have the same future that Detroit has on a smaller scale.  Kings will be good for a while and maybe get a cup window here and there but eventually that team will get old and slow down.  The Kings are enjoying their cup and are poised to make a repeat.  LA's prospect pool will slowly deteriorate and the reshuffling will restart.

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Here's an article I came across that touches on some of this: http://lakingsinsider.com/2013/05/30/regehrs-extension-affects-roster-decisions/#more-34031

 

Even if I do end up being too high on some of those figures, it still adds up to cap issues unless the Kings let go of a couple of fairly significant players. Even the losses of Penner and Mitchell make them less of a team than last year, and slightly less of a team than this year (I think Penner has been better than the stats reflect). Next year they need to re-sign Brown and Greene, that could mean trimming even more salary from somewhere in the lineup. 

 

I think they will be a very good team over the next few years even if they have to lose a few peripheral players, but I think the salary cap era prevents teams from having a very long Cup window. LA won't immediately see the level of fallout that many previous Cup winners did (Chicago comes to mind), but I think it's already evident that they aren't quite the dominant team they were last year even if they do still have a legit shot to repeat. Losing a little more next year takes them down even another slight notch. Their core is solid, they've nailed it there, but I see them relying more heavily on the cheap young guys to fill out the depth roles moving forward. They should be a solid playoff team for years to come, that's all any franchise can ask for, but I really only see them as true contenders last season (duh), and this season. I think each year after this they will be more on par with other good teams in the west.

 

I'm trying to spin this into something that gives me hope, work with me here Dlaw!  :lol:

 

They're going to lose some pieces for sure, but so long as it's Regehr, Doughty, Voynov, Greene, and some combination of Martinez, Muzzin, and serviceable UFA's playing in front of Quick along with a offensive core of Kopitar, Brown, Richards, Carter, Williams, and Stoll, they're going to be tough...

 

I think the window is into next season, and then it's going to get tough when Dustin Brown wants his $6MM+ per year long term deal.

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Shortcomings? This was one of the best built teams in history!

 

Click the link and read it QA.  This year's Kings was CLEARLY not last year's Kings.

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