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ZTHER

Anaheim V Chicago Non-Game Day Thread

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Hawks have good forward depth. important the Ducks hit every Hawks defensemen from the outset. Hawks defense is a little thin after the top four and can be worn down. Also need to keep Kane in check with his patented movement out of the corner and rotation to the slot. The guy is lethal from between the circles.

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Coaching Edge Chicago

 

Do I even need to explain this one? Boudreau is a great players coach, he's an awful matchup coach, especially against smarter coaches than he (For instance being badly BADLY outcoached by Babcock 2 years ago), Coach Q is in the elite group of coaches that carries the same success in the playoffs and regular season. 

 

That said,  I think this series might be the closest of the playoffs. All depends which team shows up for each team. It's absolutely not decided in any facet at this point imo. My heart says Ducks in 6, My gut says Hawks in 7

Hawks fan here and the quote above is why I see the hawks winning the series in 6. The hawks have some weaknesses that Q all but cancels out when the Hawks are home with the final line change. Nashville took advantage at home, Yo at Minnesota didn't have an answer. If Boudreau and his assistants fail to take advantage at home the Hawks win. If Boudreau figures it out, the Ducks win. 

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yeah, I fully expect a heavy invasion...

Yeah, mostly turncoat Kings fans or people who moved here years ago to escape the miserable midwest weather.

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I'm worried about guys like Hossa and Sharp. Those guys always put up numbers against us.

 

That being said, this series is going to be a war. I can't wait.

Don't forget Saad and Shaw. The Hawks have an excellent forward group, as do the Ducks. The only real weakness is the depth of the Hawks defense. Outside that top four, they're thin, and JQ will have to continue to overuse their top 4 and post high TOI if the scores are close. Over the course of a long series and games involving overtime that can be key.

Ducks have the advantage of being far deeper on defense and rested over the last two months. Goaltending is a wash, but Crawford is very streaky at times, and can have confidence issues. Andersen has let in a couple of softies, but has been solid when it counted most. No doubt, Goaltending will be very important for both teams.

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I know I've disagreed with you on your labeling of "fake fans" in the past myt, but it's actually really starting to irk me how often our own fans are willing to write the team off.  I find myself starting to second guess whether they were actually conference champions. (honestly can someone confirm this?)  Seriously, would it kill you guys to have a little faith?  No one is saying the Hawks are a bad team... they're really good.  It's gonna be a huge challenge.  But if you don't believe your team can win... I dunno, why watch in the first place?  It doesn't quite add up to me.  Why bother making predictions against the Ducks, as a Ducks fan, on a Ducks message board?  It's just disheartening to see.  Are there any other top-tier pro sports teams whose fanbases are as OK with losing as we are?

 

I'm going to chalk this up to the growing pains of a young franchise still making their way out from under a collective inferiority complex imposed by the league's "serious" teams, because I know you guys are all great people.  But stop THINKING so much and just BELIEEEEEEEVE!!!!  It's sports for crying out loud!!!

 

We've had them every round. Admitting the opposition is better is totally fine, but I still expect real Duck fans to be supporting the side no matter what. It's why I have no bitterness towards any opposition we face and I'm not a sore winner. Them listing reasons why their team is better is what a real fan does. Only when fans start to stretch the truth and are purposefully insulting does it start to get a little heated, but it's not the norm for most fan bases and usually such behaviour is only reserved for those teams who've been infested with the band-wagoners i.e. CHI and LA. 

 

They should pin a warning on this thread or something cause it's getting a little tired at this point. "XX beats the Ducks in 6, but prove me wrong... I don't mind". Too easy and not the sign of a real fan in my eyes. Having said that, it's win-win at this point. 

 

Ducks win = SCF baby!!!

Ducks lose = bye bye BB, hello MB.

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I want this series to be great, and I really hope the Ducks come out on top.  It's going to be really, really tough.  The Hawks have horses on the back end who can match up with Perry and Getzlaf.  You get them out there as much as possible against Timonen and whoever replaces Roszival, but that's a tall order, considering the Hawks' top two d-pairings are out there 50 minutes a game.  

 

The forward matchups are going to be rough, too.  You figure the Ducks want Kesler's line out there against Richards and Kane.  That means Getzlaf and Toews will be going head to head more often than not, because Thompson and Rakell, with any wingers, will get dominated by Toews and Hossa.

 

The Ducks can do this, but the bottom 6 is going to need to win their matchups.  I think Etem needs to draw back in for Jackman, at least.  And maybe Sekac for Fleisch.

 

BB actually favored Kesler against Toews for both games this season at the Ponda. I like that better too. I think you want our top line cycling in the O-zone as much as possible against Bickell-Richards-Kane.

 

I really agree about the bottom-6 though. Palms has been getting crushed on this board for a lot of valid reasons, but in the Calgary series I was actually the most disappointed in Rakell's play. He's big, he's strong, he's very skilled, and he seemed like a great match up against the Flames, yet he was almost completely invisible at both ends of the ice in all 5 games. People were crapping on BlackHole because he was being used more than Raks in crunch time, but Rakell did absolutely nothing to earn more TOI. BB either needs to figure out a way to get Raks going with some different line mates, or he needs to sit him for a game and put Flash back in as the #4C. Rakell was a passenger against Calgary, and we can't have passengers against Chicago if we want to win.

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I thought Palmieri played pretty well in Games 4 and 5 against Calgary. If BB was going to take him out, he would have done it by now.

 

He should seriously think about switching out Jackman, though. I was surprised he elected to keep him in against a smaller Flames team. Have to go with your most talented players against Chicago. 

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BB actually favored Kesler against Toews for both games this season at the Ponda. I like that better too. I think you want our top line cycling in the O-zone as much as possible against Bickell-Richards-Kane.

I really agree about the bottom-6 though. Palms has been getting crushed on this board for a lot of valid reasons, but in the Calgary series I was actually the most disappointed in Rakell's play. He's big, he's strong, he's very skilled, and he seemed like a great match up against the Flames, yet he was almost completely invisible at both ends of the ice in all 5 games. People were crapping on BlackHole because he was being used more than Raks in crunch time, but Rakell did absolutely nothing to earn more TOI. BB either needs to figure out a way to get Raks going with some different line mates, or he needs to sit him for a game and put Flash back in as the #4C. Rakell was a passenger against Calgary, and we can't have passengers against Chicago if we want to win.

Eh, I would've liked to see more from him too, but with Palmy on his wing losing the puck every time he touched it or Jackman on his wing doing almost nothing, I'm not too surprised at how ineffective he was.

I think I'd like to see Cogs and Etem with Thompson and the Czechs with Rakell against Chicago. My two cents, bottom 6 wise.

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1. Don't let Teen-wolf* score a single point

2. Don't let Teen-wolf* score a single point

3. Don't let Teen-wolf* score a single point

 

(*MJF version)

Ok, this is the funniest thing I've read in a long time.  He totally looks like that.  Good looking boy, but he has some nasty hair.

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BB actually favored Kesler against Toews for both games this season at the Ponda. I like that better too. I think you want our top line cycling in the O-zone as much as possible against Bickell-Richards-Kane.

 

I really agree about the bottom-6 though. Palms has been getting crushed on this board for a lot of valid reasons, but in the Calgary series I was actually the most disappointed in Rakell's play. He's big, he's strong, he's very skilled, and he seemed like a great match up against the Flames, yet he was almost completely invisible at both ends of the ice in all 5 games. People were crapping on BlackHole because he was being used more than Raks in crunch time, but Rakell did absolutely nothing to earn more TOI. BB either needs to figure out a way to get Raks going with some different line mates, or he needs to sit him for a game and put Flash back in as the #4C. Rakell was a passenger against Calgary, and we can't have passengers against Chicago if we want to win.

 

 

All of that is true, and after thinking about it, I like matching up Kesler with Toews and Getzlaf with Richards/Kane.

 

I don't know think Rakell was THAT bad, but he didn't do a lot in his time.  I'd love to see the Etem - Rakell - Sekac line reunited.  I don't think Jackman has a place in this series.  That line with Rakell could do some damage against the Hawks' 4th line.

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Yeah, mostly turncoat Kings fans or people who moved here years ago to escape the miserable midwest weather.

 

 

yeah, I fully expect a heavy invasion...

 

 

Get ready for a sea of red at Honda Center.

Maybe we should institute the policy Tampa has.

;)

 

I for one will be invading United Center in orange and depending on when the games are, will be displacing an annoying red clad Hawks fan in Honda Center as well for at least some of them.

 

I would love to see the Ducks institute the rules TB did, drives me absolutely crazy when Im watching a game and see half of the Ponda filled with fans of the visitors.

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Hawks fan here and the quote above is why I see the hawks winning the series in 6. The hawks have some weaknesses that Q all but cancels out when the Hawks are home with the final line change. Nashville took advantage at home, Yo at Minnesota didn't have an answer. If Boudreau and his assistants fail to take advantage at home the Hawks win. If Boudreau figures it out, the Ducks win. 

 

That doesn't make much sense as a difference maker. You do know that Anaheim has home ice advantage right?

If you see Chicago cancelling out those weaknesses at home AND winning in six games, that's only THREE wins (Games 3,4, and 6). They don't get a 4th game in Chicago and Anaheim isn't entering this series ice cold without their best player like Nashville did (losers of 6 straight and only 6 wins total since February).

You want last change and match-ups?

Consider this: Anaheim hasn't lost a home game in the playoffs this year, outscoring opponents 19-6 in the playoffs at the Honda Center. Anaheim also has the second best record in the conference at home this year, the very best when the playoffs are figured in... that's great that you think JQ has a edge at home, but that's not going to put them over the top unless they win on the road as well.

That all said, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. The math there doesn't work.

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The Hawks will be a tough tough opponent and I think this series goes 7 games.  However, two thing that the Ducks have over the hawks are:

 

1) depth, we have forwards and defensemen and hell even a great goalie all not playing that can go in when other players are in a slump or if we have any injuries.  The Hawks just lost a defenseman who logged some good minutes and are replacing him with a guy from the minors.

 

2) The Ducks are just so much hungrier than them.  The last two years have absolutely turned them into the focused, intense group that they now are.  They are confident, driven, focused and hungry.  Deadly combo.

 

It's a huge intangible that I don't think anyone is acknowledging.

 

This is going to be a great series.    I'm not taking our opponent lightly in any manner, they absolutely scare me, but our Ducks are the real deal here!

 

Loved your center depth analysis Z!!!

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Don't forget Saad and Shaw. The Hawks have an excellent forward group, as do the Ducks. The only real weakness is the depth of the Hawks defense. Outside that top four, they're thin, and JQ will have to continue to overuse their top 4 and post high TOI if the scores are close. Over the course of a long series and games involving overtime that can be key.

Ducks have the advantage of being far deeper on defense and rested over the last two months. Goaltending is a wash, but Crawford is very streaky at times, and can have confidence issues. Andersen has let in a couple of softies, but has been solid when it counted most. No doubt, Goaltending will be very important for both teams.

 

I'm going to argue that it's in net. Crawford has been hit or miss, and Darling not much better.

They could very easily crap the bed between the pipes in epic fashion.

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Loved your center depth analysis Z!!!

 

Thanks. It was pretty basic...

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Eh, I would've liked to see more from him too, but with Palmy on his wing losing the puck every time he touched it or Jackman on his wing doing almost nothing, I'm not too surprised at how ineffective he was.

I think I'd like to see Cogs and Etem with Thompson and the Czechs with Rakell against Chicago. My two cents, bottom 6 wise.

 

+1, Palms was totally weighing his linemates down, just as Jackman wasn't playing to his strength and his former aggressive self.  Bad wingers can totally destroy the synergy of a line.  What's Rakell to do when Palm falls down upon receiving a pass?  Rakell loves to cycle and he had nobody to cycle to because Palms kept losing the puck.  What was Cogs to do speeding into the offensive zone joining a rush, only to watch Palms lob a weak long, non-dangerous shot at the goalie rather than do a drop-pass for a higher percentage shot?

 

When Palms did something right, he passed the puck to Cogs, and Cogs scored.  Remember that?  When he elected to skate, make a play, or play with tunnel vision, there was absolutely nothing that line could've done better since plays died on his stick.  And that's why he either needs to step up or sit down.  He's killing Rakell's cycling game, even Cogs cycle better than Palms and Cogs is tiny.

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We've had them every round. Admitting the opposition is better is totally fine, but I still expect real Duck fans to be supporting the side no matter what. It's why I have no bitterness towards any opposition we face and I'm not a sore winner. Them listing reasons why their team is better is what a real fan does. Only when fans start to stretch the truth and are purposefully insulting does it start to get a little heated, but it's not the norm for most fan bases and usually such behaviour is only reserved for those teams who've been infested with the band-wagoners i.e. CHI and LA. 

 

They should pin a warning on this thread or something cause it's getting a little tired at this point. "XX beats the Ducks in 6, but prove me wrong... I don't mind". Too easy and not the sign of a real fan in my eyes. Having said that, it's win-win at this point. 

 

Ducks win = SCF baby!!!

Ducks lose = bye bye BB, hello MB.

I for one am absolutely cheering for the Ducks, I cannot say I have faith in them though, could it be because of the recent heart breaks the past two seasons? Probably, but I have a very pessimistic look on the games, but I will cheer the Ducks until the last whistle regardless. 

 

And is it really a possibility that BB is fired at all now? I think he guaranteed his spot on the team next year last night regardless of the outcome of the rest of the playoffs. But if we lose to Chicago and get rid of BB, I don't want MB, I want the guy behind the bench for Chicago not named Coach Q. Gimme Kevin Dineen!!!

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Vegas has this series as a coin flip.  We were heavy favorites against Winnipeg (-145) and Calgary (-210).  My guess is the public will be all over Chicago and more often than not, the public is wrong.  

 

Ducks in 7. 

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We've had them every round. Admitting the opposition is better is totally fine, but I still expect real Duck fans to be supporting the side no matter what. It's why I have no bitterness towards any opposition we face and I'm not a sore winner. Them listing reasons why their team is better is what a real fan does. Only when fans start to stretch the truth and are purposefully insulting does it start to get a little heated, but it's not the norm for most fan bases and usually such behaviour is only reserved for those teams who've been infested with the band-wagoners i.e. CHI and LA.

They should pin a warning on this thread or something cause it's getting a little tired at this point. "XX beats the Ducks in 6, but prove me wrong... I don't mind". Too easy and not the sign of a real fan in my eyes. Having said that, it's win-win at this point.

Ducks win = SCF baby!!!

Ducks lose = bye bye BB, hello MB.

Making a prediction, and supporting your team aren't the same thing. A prediction is based on analysis, while supporting and believing your team can win comes from the heart. Sometimes they line up, and sometimes they don't. The "real fan" labeling is juvenile at best and something more akin to school children arguing on the playground. I used to say things like that in my teenage and early adult years, but then I grew up to realize the universal definition of fandom isn't, "Think your team is going to win all the time and pick them all the time or else you aren't actually a fan." Again, making a prediction and supporting your team aren't dependent on each other.

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Making a prediction, and supporting your team aren't the same thing. A prediction is based on analysis, while supporting and believing your team can win comes from the heart. Sometimes they line up, and sometimes they don't. The "real fan" labeling is juvenile at best and something more akin to school children arguing on the playground. I used to say things like that in my teenage and early adult years, but then I grew up to realize the universal definition of fandom isn't, "Think your team is going to win all the time and pick them all the time or else you aren't actually a fan." Again, making a prediction and supporting your team aren't dependent on each other.

The funniest thing is those who say you aren't a "Real fan" because you predict against the team you cheer for are the ones devoid of "Reality" lol

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Hawks fan here.  You guys do look hungry and thats important. But Chicago has more players who can finish in big games.  They have proven that year after year.  Many people talk about Toews and Kane.  But its actually Hossa and his relentless back checking that dictates our team.  And Keith?  Yes he is a great player but lately his mind is more offensive minded.  I personally thinking Hjalmason is the best defender for the Hawks and most under-rated defender in NHL. 

 

And in 2010 when they got over the top... were they much different than Anaheim? Absolutely not.

Back then were you saying they couldn't do it because they didn't have those proven guys? I doubt it...

 

Anaheim has a ton of guys who can also finish in big games. Getzlaf and Perry lead ALL scorers in PPG, Kesler has always been a playoff beast, and this year Beleskey, Cogliano, and Silvfersberg have come all come up big. Heck, how many games has Anaheim come from behind to win in the playoffs this year? How many one goal games have they won this season? You talk big plays and that's great, but it seems to me you have not watched many Ducks games.

 

Frankly that's not a reason to pick Chicago over Anaheim. Chicago has more players who can finish big games ONLY because they've played in more big games since 2009. That's the math there and it doesn't translate to this series.

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I'm going to argue that it's in net. Crawford has been hit or miss, and Darling not much better.

They could very easily crap the bed between the pipes in epic fashion.

 

Fair enough.  Crawford can be good though.  He can be a lot like Jonas Hiller - world class, or a sieve.  If Andersen is steady, Ducks will be fine.  I see defensive depth as the issue in what should be a long series.  Looking forward to game 1.....  

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To be honest, my biggest concern in regard to this series is the health of CP's knee.

 

Any chance any of my SoCal base brethren have heard any news on him?  Im sorta guessing today is either an off day or at most optional so would also guess news is slim, but it never hurts to ask.

 

Otherwise Im just hoping for an intense, clean series and for our boys to come out on top.

GO DUCKS!!

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Vegas has this series as a coin flip.  We were heavy favorites against Winnipeg (-145) and Calgary (-210).  My guess is the public will be all over Chicago and more often than not, the public is wrong.  

 

Ducks in 7. 

 

Bookmakers know the money will come in on Chicago and the opening line reflects that... so yes, it's a coin toss.

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To be honest, my biggest concern in regard to this series is the health of CP's knee.

 

Any chance any of my SoCal base brethren have heard any news on him?  Im sorta guessing today is either an off day or at most optional so would also guess news is slim, but it never hurts to ask.

 

Otherwise Im just hoping for an intense, clean series and for our boys to come out on top.

GO DUCKS!!

 

I really think it was his thigh that took the brunt of that hit and his knee hyper extending just a bit...

 

I said in the game day thread I think we'd see him back (dead leg) simply based on the fact that he struggled to get off the ice vs just laying there. And lets be real here, Perry isn't below embellishing a bit. Cat doesn't dive, but he'll play up anything he feels he can get away with...

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The way I see it personally

Offense is relatively equal.

Highlights of Chicago= Toews, Kane, Saad, Hossa, Sharp

Highlights of Anaheim= Getzlaf, Perry, Kesler, Silvferberg, Belesky

Toews and Kane are pretty equal to Getzlaf and Perry, Kesler is equal to Sharp, Silvferberg is equal to Saad, Hossa is better than Belesky but Belesky has been having a great playoffs, Beyond the highlights I like Anaheim's depth over Chicago's

Defense slight edge Chicago

Highlights of Chicago= Keith and Seabrook (These two are the reason they have the edge), Hjalmarsson

Highlights of Ducks= Lindholm, Beauch, Fowler, Despres

Keith and Seabrook are better than anything we have, Beyond those 2, I think it's entirely edge Ducks. But the Seabrook and Keith duo is just too great

Goaltending slight edge Anaheim

Highlights of Chicago= Corey Crawford

Highlights of Anaheim= Freddie Anderson

Yes Crawford is a Stanley Cup champion, yes I think you could have put a orange traffic cone in net and Chicago would still have won that cup. Crawford has been subpar most of the playoffs, and really only wasn't awful against an anemic Minnesota offense. I think the Ducks will be able to expose him. If Andersen has his weak goals (Shortside for example) then this edge could go back to Chicago quickly

Coaching Edge Chicago

Do I even need to explain this one? Boudreau is a great players coach, he's an awful matchup coach, especially against smarter coaches than he (For instance being badly BADLY outcoached by Babcock 2 years ago), Coach Q is in the elite group of coaches that carries the same success in the playoffs and regular season.

That said, I think this series might be the closest of the playoffs. All depends which team shows up for each team. It's absolutely not decided in any facet at this point imo. My heart says Ducks in 6, My gut says Hawks in 7

This is pretty much how I see things as well. I basically think it's going to come down to Chicago having the chance to close out at home in game 6 and they will, or us finally winning a game 7 at home and moving on to the Cup. I just didn't want to sit on the fence so I went with the team who have the better chance on paper for the reasons you listed above.

- Signed, not a "real fan"

:D

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Fair enough.  Crawford can be good though.  He can be a lot like Jonas Hiller - world class, or a sieve.  If Andersen is steady, Ducks will be fine.  I see defensive depth as the issue in what should be a long series.  Looking forward to game 1.....  

 

I do think Anaheim will need to try and wear down and pressure the bottom guys... and from that angle I like how much deeper Anaheim is on the back end even if they don't have a guy as good as Keith... but I also think if Crawford is Crawful, this could be a short series. Anaheim isn't going to turn into Nashville and score three straight only to give back four. They're better than that.

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Dont know much about the Ducks except they had 109 pts, which is pretty darn good excepting I'm pretty sure the Ducks padded their point total with wins against San Jose, Edmonton, and Arizona. The Pacific is much softer than the Central, clearly. I seem to recall that the Ducks have younger, i.e., inexperienced D-men. If that is the case Kaner will make them look silly. Don't get me wrong I think it's very possible that the Ducks can beat the Hawks but I don't think it's likely. The biggest mismatch is Coach Q vs. Boudreau but, of course, neither one of them will be skating. GO HAWKS!

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Making a prediction, and supporting your team aren't the same thing. A prediction is based on analysis, while supporting and believing your team can win comes from the heart. Sometimes they line up, and sometimes they don't. The "real fan" labeling is juvenile at best and something more akin to school children arguing on the playground. I used to say things like that in my teenage and early adult years, but then I grew up to realize the universal definition of fandom isn't, "Think your team is going to win all the time and pick them all the time or else you aren't actually a fan." Again, making a prediction and supporting your team aren't dependent on each other.

I think the point here is if you're gonna make a prediction against the team you cheer for, maybe consider keeping it to yourself. It's weird to see fans writing the team off on their own board. The thing with analysis is you can use it to support one side or another, and let's face it, the only thing we KNOW about how this series is gonna go is that one team is going to win, so you could argue a lot of it does come down to where you choose to place your belief.

The real fan/fake fan thing might be a bit of a moot point tho. Sports is religion, we're all fanatics.

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I'm enjoying all the analysis so far.  One thing is for certain, the Final 8 Wins will be FAR more difficult to achieve than the First 8.

 

Should the Ducks get past Chicago, they could face a Rangers team which has destroyed them in both games this season, or perhaps Ovie, who also gives the Ducks(and other teams), fits.  Tampa Bay is fast, and Montreal would have home ice advantage against the Ducks, which ended up being the difference in our only SCF series loss to New Jersey.

 

Any one of the eventual Final 4 teams are capable of winning the Cup.  Unlike Calgary, Chicago is capable of taking a gift like the Ducks gave the Flames in Game 3, and turning around a series by maintaining momentum.  This will be a hard fought series.

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