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norge25

Summer Rfa / Ufa Signings Watch

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Saad is getting overrated here, being a Hawk does that for people. He's still a complimentary winger and will get paid with his potential factored in, but that still doesn't look like 6.5 mil to me right now, and Beleskey is a bad example.

My argument had zero to do with being a Hawk, and Beleskey is a fair example, because that's theoretically where the market is pricing him. A 50 point player is worth 5 million a year, probably. The question is whether he can retain that in a new environment. I wouldn't bet against it. He's kept it pretty consistently. On the other hand, if he puts up Sharp-type numbers (prior to this year) of 70-80 over the next 5 or so years, then 6.5 is fair.

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A nice little side-note with Bieksa: while his cap hit is $4.6 million, his actual salary is $2.5 million which leaves BM a little more space to make something happen.

 

We're about $2.2 million under the cap floor right now, with the most pressing contracts being Silfverberg and Hagelin. I expect BM will lock those guys down for around an $8.5 million cap hit, which would leave about $14 million of cap room for 2015-16. While there are A LOT of significant RFAs next summer, there is still room for BM to add an impact forward for 15-16.

 

(Seriously though...Sekac, Rakell, Vats, Depres, Lindholm, Gibson, AND Andersen are all RFAs. I dont envy BM a year from now.)

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Ok Saad's gone but that was a bit of a long shot anyway. Columbus is gonna rip it up next year if they don't lose 500 man-games and maybe improve depth on D. In another news, Weiss got bought out today... 3rd line centre yeah? I'm down.

Just for fun, here's what the bottom 6 would look like if we signed everybody I've suggested on this thread:

Frolik-Weiss-Semin

Condra-Hodgson-Kostitsyn

Oh also:

Upshall-Rakell I guess?-Boyes? Sure

Well while we're at it ummmmm

Stalberg-Tlusty?-Bergenheim

There you have it folks, your 1st Bottom 6 All-Star team. Sami Pahlsson is head coach, R. Niedermayer runs the PP and Ric Jackman coordinates defense.

Edit: only 99 days til the season starts! :wacko:

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Damn, I butchered a response to ritz and Ducks_Roll.

 

The basis of this is Saad's potential. I don't see an 80 pt player, so we won't see eye-to-eye on his value, short term or long term. I also don't see how comparing two ~50 pt players, one being a 22 yo RFA and one being a 27 yo UFA, makes much sense. 

 

Agree to disagree. 

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Just a quick thought to Austin: I'll agree that Saad isn't there yet, and may never be. But at the same time, if Bobby Ryan gets 7 years, 7 million a year, for 50-70 point seasons (and at 28, Ryan isn't getting any better). Saad has 3 50pt (or the equivalent of that in a 48 game year) seasons in his 20, 21, and 22 age seasons, where a strong possibility exists that he will improve - Johanssen is no slouch. Is it a stretch based on 50 points? Yeah, but not that much. And if he does improve, it is demonstrably market value, which is all I'm saying.

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Just a quick thought to Austin: I'll agree that Saad isn't there yet, and may never be. But at the same time, if Bobby Ryan gets 7 years, 7 million a year, for 50-70 point seasons (and at 28, Ryan isn't getting any better). Saad has 3 50pt (or the equivalent of that in a 48 game year) seasons in his 20, 21, and 22 age seasons. Is it a stretch based on 50 points? Yeah, but not that much. And if he does improve, it is demonstrably market value, which is all I'm saying.

 

Man, I don't like the Bobby comparison either. Dude put up 4 -30G seasons out of the gate while playing on the #2PP and splitting his time on the 2nd line. He was going to get P-A-I-D. A prolific young goal scorer just doesn't compare in terms of market value to a two-way winger who puts up 50 pts on a VERY good team.

 

I think a better example would be Ryan O'Reilly. I'd say his center ability makes him more valuable, but being as he mainly plays wing now, I think you have a good comparable. And he's making $6MM AAV ($6.2MM in actual salary this year). Rumor is he was moved out because he was looking for 7+ million. We'll have to wait and see what he actually gets, because guys draw hard lines like that to buy their way out of town as well. Could just be posturing, just as with Dougie H.

 

So in all fairness, I'd say Saad is probably worth close to O'Reilly all things considered. That puts him somewhere in the middle of where we are debating. I'm willing to concede that. Both are likely to get paid what is being speculated because talent is so tough to come by these days outside of the draft, and when you have young talent you have to do what it takes to keep them, particularly team's on the rise. 

 

I think we may actually be arguing two different points. His actual on-ice value vs. his market value. Saad can probably cash out at $6.5MM, but to me that's an overpayment based on his actual on-ice value, even if his market value bears out that way.

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Well, I already said if he sticks at 50 points or drops then his actual value won't be thar much. But he's 22. Not a huge stretch to see him finding another 10-20 points.

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Well, I already said if he sticks at 50 points or drops then his actual value won't be thar much. But he's 22. Not a huge stretch to see him finding another 10-20 points.

 

20-30 more points was what you speculated, but point taken.

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I think we're looking at 7-8mil for all 3 guys. Still leaves us with ~$12mil. Signing a guy for $4-5mil would still leave us with plenty of breathing room. Just the way BM likes it. 

 

This is about what I expect.  Maybe up to $9 million.  $3 - $3.5 for Silf, $4 - $4.5 for Hagelin, less than $1 million for Wagner.  I don't see any way we go over $10 million for these three guys, unless we buy out years of free agency.

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A nice little side-note with Bieksa: while his cap hit is $4.6 million, his actual salary is $2.5 million which leaves BM a little more space to make something happen.

 

We're about $2.2 million under the cap floor right now, with the most pressing contracts being Silfverberg and Hagelin. I expect BM will lock those guys down for around an $8.5 million cap hit, which would leave about $14 million of cap room for 2015-16. While there are A LOT of significant RFAs next summer, there is still room for BM to add an impact forward for 15-16.

 

(Seriously though...Sekac, Rakell, Vats, Depres, Lindholm, Gibson, AND Andersen are all RFAs. I dont envy BM a year from now.)

Right about the extra money, but that's only for this year.

 

I expect a 3.5M AAV/3 years for Silvfer, a 4M/4years for Hags and a cc 1M/2 years for Wagner deals. 8.5M SUM.

GMBM started to go ahead of things, I think Andersen, Lindholm, Despres and Rakell will be signed during the year, maybe Sekac based on usage and performance.

The 2 who will remain are Gibson and Vatanen.

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@DarrenDreger: 2 year extension for Bieksa with the Ducks. Aav $4 million.

 

And a NTC... he's a bottom pairing guy. This one might have a little stink on it if he can't live up to the role he is expected to fill. 

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And a NTC... he's a bottom pairing guy. This one might have a little stink on it if he can't live up to the role he is expected to fill. 

I don't believe he's a bottom paring guy.

 

Honestly i think he will be better than Frankie. 

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I don't believe he's a bottom paring guy.

 

Honestly i think he will be better than Frankie. 

Agreed.

 

He was great until Vancouver went in the trash can. Then he regressed. Being on a team that's got success can be energizing. Look at the jump Beauch made when he was brought back to Anaheim.

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Agreed.

 

He was great until Vancouver went in the trash can. Then he regressed. Being on a team that's got success can be energizing. Look at the jump Beauch made when he was brought back to Anaheim.

And he had to play with Sbisa all season.

 

Even Fowler looked like trash when he had to play with Spizza.

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And he had to play with Sbisa all season.

 

Even Fowler looked like trash when he had to play with Spizza.

Yup. Putting him with someone like Lindholm or Fowler I think we'll see a resurgence. 

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I don't believe he's a bottom paring guy.

 

Honestly i think he will be better than Frankie. 

 

With all due respect, have you been watching Bieksa the last few years? Don't take my word for it, look at what Canucks fans are saying about him, even prior to them adding Sbisa. He is well-loved as a fan favorite and team leader, but his on ice struggles are well known.

 

I think people have short memories with Beauchemin, he might have had a tough Chicago series, but is everyone forgetting what a rock he was for us all season long? He and Hampus were a great pair, our best pair, for the entire season and most of the playoffs. And that's not because Beauch was carried by Hampus, he was solid in his own right against the NHL's best competition every night. When's the last time anyone could say that of Bieksa? 2011?

 

Look, maybe Bieksa steps up and holds his own if Hampus can carry a little more of the load, but let's not get carried away with expectations, and let's not sell Frankie short here.

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With all due respect, have you been watching Bieksa the last few years? Don't take my word for it, look at what Canucks fans are saying about him, even prior to them adding Sbisa. He is well-loved as a fan favorite and team leader, but his on ice struggles are well known.

 

I think people have short memories with Beauchemin, he might have had a tough Chicago series, but is everyone forgetting what a rock he was for us all season long? He and Hampus were a great pair, our best pair, for the entire season and most of the playoffs. And that's not because Beauch was carried by Hampus, he was solid in his own right against the NHL's best competition every night. When's the last time anyone could say that of Bieksa? 2011?

 

Look, maybe Bieksa steps up and holds his own if Hampus can carry a little more of the load, but let's not get carried away with expectations, and let's not sell Frankie short here.

What? Bieksa was on Vancouver top pairing 2 years ago with Hamuis under Torts.

 

As for the bold, you remember what they said about Kesler? Washed up broken Kesler with weak hands? Yea.....

 

Bieksa is a better skater with less miles than Frankie. He did not have a great last two seasons, but one of those was under Torts, and the other he ws forced to play 20 minutes a night with friggen Sbisa for 60+ games. 

 

Also Frankie and Lindholm were no where near a best pair in any round in the playoffs. Neither had a good playoffs aside from the Winnipeg series. 

 

Beauch was absolutely a rock, Bieksa will be too.   

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What? Bieksa was on Vancouver top pairing 2 years ago with Hamuis under Torts.

 

As for the bold, you remember what they said about Kesler? Washed up broken Kesler with weak hands? Yea.....

 

Bieksa is a better skater with less miles than Frankie. He did not have a great last two seasons, but one of those was under Torts, and the other he ws forced to play 20 minutes a night with friggen Sbisa for 60+ games. 

 

Also Frankie and Lindholm were no where near a best pair in any round in the playoffs. Neither had a good playoffs aside from the Winnipeg series. 

 

Beauch was absolutely a rock, Bieksa will be too.   

 

Yeah,  the Nucks fans are always drunk on sour grapes after they trade a player.

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What? Bieksa was on Vancouver top pairing 2 years ago with Hamuis under Torts.

 

As for the bold, you remember what they said about Kesler? Washed up broken Kesler with weak hands? Yea.....

 

Bieksa is a better skater with less miles than Frankie. He did not have a great last two seasons, but one of those was under Torts, and the other he ws forced to play 20 minutes a night with friggen Sbisa for 60+ games. 

 

Also Frankie and Lindholm were no where near a best pair in any round in the playoffs. Neither had a good playoffs aside from the Winnipeg series. 

 

Beauch was absolutely a rock, Bieksa will be too.   

 

How does that refute that fact that he struggled, and has for years.

 

You're still not giving Beauchemin his due credit for being a stud for us all year. Man, I'm walking away from this one...

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How does that refute that fact that he struggled, and has for years.

You're still not giving Beauchemin his due credit for being a stud for us all year. Man, I'm walking away from this one...

Two years he's struggled. Two. Let's not exaggerate his struggles here. Everyone sucked on Vancouver under Torts and anyone would suck playing with Sbisa We've seen this first hand no?

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