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poum

Nhl Catch-All For 2015-16

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Heh. A NINE player deal involving the Toronto Maple Leafs, specifically Dion Phanuef....

 

This is pretty much exactly why all the of the "experts" are completely full of crap when it comes to their "inside sources" and the "trade chatter" they allegedly hear. Not one single "expert" had this on their radar.

Not true. McKenzie had this one before it happend.

I think it happened a lot faster than he anticipated, but he was throwing Phanuef rumors out there a couple hours before this deal went down.

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Not true. McKenzie had this one before it happend.

I think it happened a lot faster than he anticipated, but he was throwing Phanuef rumors out there a couple hours before this deal went down.

 

McKenzie tweeted about it at 7:19am PST and the official trade announcement was released on the Sens website at 7:24am PST.

 

Congrats, Bob McKenzie! You had this scoop WAAAAAAY before anyone else had it.

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Toronto trades phaneuf to ottawa in 9 player deal

Sens get Phaneuf, Frattin, Bailey, Rupert and Donaghey in exchange for Cowen, Greening, Michalek, Lindberg and 2nd-rounder in 2017.

No cash retained

 

Pictures of the trade in progress:

 

1029-Garbage-Truck.jpg

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I'm a little surprised that the Sens were after Dion, they play a quicker game and he might look like a slug on that blueline, though he does bring other things (toughness, etc.) that they might need more of. Surprising that a budget team took on that contract with nothing retained.

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I'm a little surprised that the Sens were after Dion, they play a quicker game and he might look like a slug on that blueline, though he does bring other things (toughness, etc.) that they might need more of. Surprising that a budget team took on that contract with nothing retained.

 

Wasn't Karlsson playing mostly with Filip Kuba when he won his first Norris? Maybe Karlsson needs a new slug....

:lol:

 

 

Also, ditching the salaries of Greening and Cowen paid for the deal through the 2016-17 season.

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McKenzie tweeted about it at 7:19am PST and the official trade announcement was released on the Sens website at 7:24am PST.

Congrats, Bob McKenzie! You had this scoop WAAAAAAY before anyone else had it.

What's your point?

This was a trade that developed really fast.

And quite frankly it's not nearly the blockbuster everyone is making it out to be.

A bunch of spare parts and a 2nd rounder in 2017 for fringe #4 pylon defenseman.

Btw the Sens didn't officially break the trade until 8:11.

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Wasn't Karlsson playing mostly with Filip Kuba when he won his first Norris? Maybe Karlsson needs a new slug....

:lol:

 

 

Also, ditching the salaries of Greening and Cowen paid for the deal through the 2016-17 season.

 

Haha. Looks like our Murray and the other Murray share the same fetish for big clunky d-men.

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And quite frankly it's not nearly the blockbuster everyone is making it out to be.

A bunch of spare parts and a 2nd rounder in 2017 for fringe #4 pylon defenseman.

I'm not sure anyone here is considering it a blockbuster. But then again, Leaf flavor-aid is in short supply on these boards. The general attitude I'm getting from anyone outside Ontario is either unmitigated hilarity or wait and flippin' see. 

 

P.S. You forgot glass-breaking, slippery skate wearing when you described said fringe #4 pylon d-man.

Haha. Looks like our Murray and our former Murray share the same fetish for big clunky d-men.

That's better.

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What's your point?

This was a trade that developed really fast.

And quite frankly it's not nearly the blockbuster everyone is making it out to be.

A bunch of spare parts and a 2nd rounder in 2017 for fringe #4 pylon defenseman.

 

My point is that he didn't have the trade before it actually happened. The trade was completed by the time he tweeted about it. The teams have to notify the league office prior to announcing a trade, so that was surely done long before Bob's tweet. In fact, since the Sens marketing department had a lengthy post about the trade on their page only five minutes after Bob's tweet, you can bet that the GM had already put out the word on a completed trade to the whole organization before Bob had it. 

 

Bryan Murray also said they've been talking about Phaneuf for a long time and that the deal started to come together on Saturday. Today is Tuesday. McKenzie may have been the first guy to tweet about it, but it's not like he had anything on this before a deal was actually done. 

 

So maybe the moral to the story is, if Bob McKenzie tweets a rumor, wait five minutes to see if it's true and a deal is actually done. Otherwise, move along.  :lol:

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As far as it being a huge deal or not, I agree with you.

 

But it's a trade involving the captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Toronto cares, so that means the rest of us are forced to care..

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I'm not sure anyone here is considering it a blockbuster. But then again, Leaf flavor-aid is in short supply on these boards. The general attitude I'm getting from anyone outside Ontario is either unmitigated hilarity or wait and flippin' see.

P.S. You forgot glass-breaking, slippery skate wearing when you described said fringe #4 pylon d-man.

That's better.

Phanuef isn't very good. Taking him out of Toronto doesn't change that.

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My point is that he didn't have the trade before it actually happened. The trade was completed by the time he tweeted about it. The teams have to notify the league office prior to announcing a trade, so that was surely done long before Bob's tweet. In fact, since the Sens marketing department had a lengthy post about the trade on their page only five minutes after Bob's tweet, you can bet that the GM had already put out the word on a completed trade to the whole organization before Bob had it.

Bryan Murray also said they've been talking about Phaneuf for a long time and that the deal started to come together on Saturday. Today is Tuesday. McKenzie may have been the first guy to tweet about it, but it's not like he had anything on this before a deal was actually done.

So maybe the moral to the story is, if Bob McKenzie tweets a rumor, wait five minutes to see if it's true and a deal is actually done. Otherwise, move along. :lol:

So because one trade goes under the radar none of the hockey pundits out there have any sources at all and everything they put out there is crap?

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One interesting tidbit about this trade is the situation that would occur if Cowen is bought out this offseason. Because he's only 25, and due to a loophole in the CBA regarding salary/cap hit discrepancy, if his contract is bought out, his cap hit next year (16/17) would be a CREDIT of $650K (i.e. -$650,000). Certainly a more attractive option if they want to try to move him before the deadline, or reap the benefits themselves.

Here's what I just said except more sense-making:

http://theleafsnation.com/2016/2/9/is-it-time-for-the-leafs-to-buy-out-jared-cowen

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So because one trade goes under the radar none of the hockey pundits out there have any sources at all and everything they put out there is crap?

 

Is it just one trade? C'mon, this happens all the time. You and I could sit in front of our computers looking at rosters without a single inside source as these talking heads do and still put up comparable hit rates on trades. The experts don't know as much as they want you to believe, but it's their job to make you think they do. 

 

Honestly, outside of Kesler, which was one of the most public trade negotiations I have ever seen in all of sports, name one  Ducks trade has been called by a one of these so-called-experts ahead of time.  BM is a constant shuffler, and I can't remember even one single trade rumor from any of the experts being accurate for our Ducks.

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LeBrun: W/ #Leafs, Phaneuf had a 12-team 'yes' trade list. Included #Sens, #Habs, #Blackhawks, #Bruins, #LAKings, #SJSharks, #NHLDucks.

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Phew, dodged a bullet there! 

:P

 

Doesn't move fast enough, more like a large weight cannonball.

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Chris Nichols@NicholsOnHockey 3m3 minutes ago

LeBrun: W/ #Leafs, Phaneuf had a 12-team 'yes' trade list. Included #Sens, #Habs, #Blackhawks, #Bruins, #LAKings, #SJSharks, #NHLDucks.

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Phew, dodged a bullet there!

:P

Dude. That's not funny. That's the single most horrifying thing I've read since I saw "Garbutts" on a Duck sweater.

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Is it just one trade? C'mon, this happens all the time. You and I could sit in front of our computers looking at rosters without a single inside source as these talking heads do and still put up comparable hit rates on trades. The experts don't know as much as they want you to believe, but it's their job to make you think they do.

Honestly, outside of Kesler, which was one of the most public trade negotiations I have ever seen in all of sports, name one Ducks trade has been called by a one of these so-called-experts ahead of time. BM is a constant shuffler, and I can't remember even one single trade rumor from any of the experts being accurate for our Ducks.

How many major pieces has BM moved? Sure he lives to shuffle things up, but moves like a 3rd for Brewer, or Sakic for Garbutt, or Thompson for a 4th rounder, or Allen for Bork, or or ect ect

I remember the pundits being mostly right when all the Bobby Ryan stuff went down. Philly and Ott both pushed hard, most though Philly would be the team, but acknowledged Ott was right in there.

Same thing with Kesler, although like you said that was pretty public.

Anyways they've been right about all sorts of trades: Off the top of my head

Johonsen for Jones

Patrick sharp to Dallas

Saad to Columbus

Kessel to Pitt

Bieksa to Sj( then they bailed last second)

End up on Ducks

Lucic to La

ORielly to Buf

Yea they missed some. Nobody called the Hamilton trade until right before it happened.

Oshie for Brower

Jones to Sj

Boner to pit

Haglin to Pitt

And now Phaneuf to Ott

I don't remember anybody calling those ones, but for the most part the collective track record of the more reliable sources like McKenzie and Friedman are pretty good. Sometimes they're wrong, we all are. Doesn't mean that they don't have any sources in place.

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How many major pieces has BM moved? Sure he lives to shuffle things up, but moves like a 3rd for Brewer, or Sakic for Garbutt, or Thompson for a 4th rounder, or Allen for Bork, or or ect ect

I remember the pundits being mostly right when all the Bobby Ryan stuff went down. Philly and Ott both pushed hard, most though Philly would be the team, but acknowledged Ott was right in there.

Same thing with Kesler, although like you said that was pretty public.

Anyways they've been right about all sorts of trades: Off the top of my head

Johonsen for Jones

Patrick sharp to Dallas

Saad to Columbus

Kessel to Pitt

Bieksa to Sj( then they bailed last second)

End up on Ducks

Lucic to La

ORielly to Buf

Yea they missed some. Nobody called the Hamilton trade until right before it happened.

Oshie for Brower

Jones to Sj

Boner to pit

Haglin to Pitt

And now Phaneuf to Ott

I don't remember anybody calling those ones, but for the most part the collective track record of the more reliable sources like McKenzie and Friedman are pretty good. Sometimes they're wrong, we all are. Doesn't mean that they don't have any sources in place.

I know it was a miss type. But if this team had Sakic... Just... Holy crap.

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I know it was a miss type. But if this team had Sakic... Just... Holy crap.

 

Specifically if we traded a today's Gar Gar Dunks for a 2000-ish Sakic...

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Good piece. Happy to have most of the Swedes we do-I'm looking at you, Foilberg.

Who, this guy? 

gold1-593x356.jpg

 

I wager he'll show up for the playoffs again.

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How many major pieces has BM moved? Sure he lives to shuffle things up, but moves like a 3rd for Brewer, or Sakic for Garbutt, or Thompson for a 4th rounder, or Allen for Bork, or or ect ect

I remember the pundits being mostly right when all the Bobby Ryan stuff went down. Philly and Ott both pushed hard, most though Philly would be the team, but acknowledged Ott was right in there.

Same thing with Kesler, although like you said that was pretty public.

 

 

I was following the Bobby Ryan situation pretty closely at that time since I really didn't want to see one of my favorite players moved (even though I pretty much knew it was inevitable after Perry re-signed), and I don't remember that at all. There were a lot of teams being thrown around as suitors for Bobby, but hardly anyone was mentioning Ottawa. In fact, after a little internet searching, I can only find a couple of people who even mentioned Bobby as an option for Ottawa - Bruce Garrioch of the Ottawa Sun and Ken Warren of the Ottawa Citizen. In other words, local guys who probably have actual sources on the inside of the Sens organization. I can't find a single rumor from any of the big national pundits who mentioned Ottawa. Dreger, Friedman, McKenzie, Custance, Pagnotta, LeBrun, and on and on... they were all throwing out names like Philly, the Rags, Montreal, Toronto, Pittsburgh, Boston, etc. etc. And most thought it was a foregone conclusion that Bobby was going to Philly.

 

Look, I respect the nation-wide talking heads for their knowledge of the game and I definitely enjoy reading their stuff. I follow pretty much all of them on twitter. But I just have serious doubts about their "sources". I honestly believe their "sources" are (1) their own knowledge of the NHL rosters, (2) their own knowledge of the teams' salary caps, and (3) their own logic, not actually people on the inside feeding them information that no one else has. If they had actual "sources" on the inside, they wouldn't be missing these major deals. It's not their fault, though. Very few GMs want their negotiations made public. Ours certainly doesn't. So I can't help but be really skeptical when they say something like "Drouin to be traded in the next 24-hours. Yzerman looking to add a right-shot D-man to QB their PP." They don't know that. They're just guessing like the rest of us.

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Who, this guy? 

gold1-593x356.jpg

 

I wager he'll show up for the playoffs again.

That would be the dude in question. I love how some of the better European leagues don't take themselves as seriously as the NHL does. Gold helmets for all!

 

I hope he does, I was really stoked when he rebounded after that broken wing a couple of years ago, saw him as a contributor and driver for the offense. He's improved on the defensive side of things, but where that scoring touch is....

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That would be the dude in question. I love how some of the better European leagues don't take themselves as seriously as the NHL does. Gold helmets for all!

 

I hope he does, I was really stoked when he rebounded after that broken wing a couple of years ago, saw him as a contributor and driver for the offense. He's improved on the defensive side of things, but where that scoring touch is....

 

As long as it looks like a shootout in the form of a big breakaway.  Wide open empty net?  FORGET IT!!!!!

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I was following the Bobby Ryan situation pretty closely at that time since I really didn't want to see one of my favorite players moved (even though I pretty much knew it was inevitable after Perry re-signed), and I don't remember that at all. There were a lot of teams being thrown around as suitors for Bobby, but hardly anyone was mentioning Ottawa. In fact, after a little internet searching, I can only find a couple of people who even mentioned Bobby as an option for Ottawa - Bruce Garrioch of the Ottawa Sun and Ken Warren of the Ottawa Citizen. In other words, local guys who probably have actual sources on the inside of the Sens organization. I can't find a single rumor from any of the big national pundits who mentioned Ottawa. Dreger, Friedman, McKenzie, Custance, Pagnotta, LeBrun, and on and on... they were all throwing out names like Philly, the Rags, Montreal, Toronto, Pittsburgh, Boston, etc. etc. And most thought it was a foregone conclusion that Bobby was going to Philly.

 

Look, I respect the nation-wide talking heads for their knowledge of the game and I definitely enjoy reading their stuff. I follow pretty much all of them on twitter. But I just have serious doubts about their "sources". I honestly believe their "sources" are (1) their own knowledge of the NHL rosters, (2) their own knowledge of the teams' salary caps, and (3) their own logic, not actually people on the inside feeding them information that no one else has. If they had actual "sources" on the inside, they wouldn't be missing these major deals. It's not their fault, though. Very few GMs want their negotiations made public. Ours certainly doesn't. So I can't help but be really skeptical when they say something like "Drouin to be traded in the next 24-hours. Yzerman looking to add a right-shot D-man to QB their PP." They don't know that. They're just guessing like the rest of us.

I'm still not buying that they are blind. Are news reporters blind? How do stories get leaked ?

 

I remember Bobby's name being linked to Ottowa as much as anyone else, especially after Alfie bailed for Detroit.

 

Boston was in there too. That was the same time the whole Seguin drama was going on, and Bobby was being linked to a possible package deal there.

 

 

As for the bit about Yzerman, Again it's not just these insiders spewing this out there. NHL GM's have come out and said they are talking to Yzerman.  Some of the stuff that came out was incredibly specific too. 

 

like "Yzerman asked for something around Ceci", and the Sens said no."

 

Are they just flat lying?

 

Also, this whole holdout by Drouin started because allegedly Yzerman told him a deal was "close" and Drouin didn't want to risk getting hurt.  So obviously something was really close to happening there. I don't think its a coincidence that both a source,(Lavoire, who is a Montreal guy close to Syracuse) and Drouin's own agent were both saying it was almost done. Despite Yzerman coming out and denying whatever. 

 

I  don't think its a coincidence that literally every name being thrown out  in a rumor was either a RHD or a young cheap forward. Feel free to be skeptical, but unless all the guys who report on this stuff are collaborating together to make sure the names they put  out follow a consistent pattern,  then i'm not sure how 90% of the rumors end up being for the same type of player.

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^^ Yes, I do think the "experts" collaborate together. They are constantly re-tweeting each other's rumors, and if one guy says something they all run with it like lemmings.

 

I remain skeptical.

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