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BestOfTheWest

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Honestly I'm pretty happy with how this turned out. We kept our core defensive players and still have 2-3 more solid prospects on the back end.

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27 minutes ago, WyldWyng said:

Thrilled with the results, especially dumping Stoner. He is easily replaceable. We also won't have PETA protesting at The Honda Center anymore because of his illegal trophy hunting. Go Ducks!

He could now go hunting for rattlesnakes in Vegas

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32 minutes ago, WyldWyng said:

Thrilled with the results, especially dumping Stoner. He is easily replaceable. We also won't have PETA protesting at The Honda Center anymore because of his illegal trophy hunting. Go Ducks!

I remember some guy signing up to this forum to "curse" our franchise shortly after that news broke. We laughed at the time but considering how things have gone since, I think I might be a believer. Glad he's gone :ph34r:

Also, holy cap space Vatman! 

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2 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

I'm old enough to remember when Theodore was being blocked by Fowler and Lindholm and we needed to move one of 4/47 to make way for his young talent. Oh wait, that was last June.... 

:P

Honestly, until Monty proves he can be a top-4, play-in-all-situations guy over an 82 game grind + playoffs, I just don't see how we move Vats. Monty today is Theo one year ago.... R-A-W.  So far he looks great after just 44 games, but it could go a lot of different ways for him. And we have zero depth on the right side beyond the guys we already have at the NHL level. There's no right-shot version of Larsson currently in our system. In fact, aside from Monty, we only have ONE right-shot D-man anywhere in our system and that's Welinski, who is already 24 and hasn't even sniffed the NHL yet. 

We're in fine cap shape and we don't need to move anyone from our current roster, so if you're looking to trade for a young, top-line LW how about starting with something like Jones+Mahura+pick.  Don't thin out a position that doesn't have much organizational depth.

Following up the loss of Theodore with a trade of Vatanen makes what was a very deep defense ... well, not nearly as deep. That's especially the case to start the 2017-18 season where we know Vats will be out for awhile anyway and possibly Lindholm too (though I'm not nearly as concerned with who is suiting up in October as I am for who is there in February). At least we should get a nice look at Larsson for a few months. 

Pretty amazing where we've come in a year. Don't think anybody -- including myself -- was concerned about how BM would prevent Manson from going to Vegas, or that Montour would be a more valued asset than Theodore. Yet here we are. 

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10 hours ago, liquid13 said:

I'm ok with this, not happy.  Stoner bing dumped is whatever, depends on what they do with that cape space I guess.

 

Theo will be a good player someday, but I really don't think it was as simple as people seem to think for BM to keep all of his important assets through this expansion mess.

I agree completely with your last sentence.  BM isn't perfect, and his hands were tied a bit by the mess he created himself (too many bad defense contracts and not enough good forwards).  But they were also tied by very favorable ED rules for Vegas as well as his own drafting prowess (too many good young d-men).

As for dumping Stoner, if his exiting contract pays for Eaves, I'm okay with that.  I'd still rather not re-sign Eaves for more than two years, but at least the cost for next year is paid for by Stoner's contract.

I see this as Vegas selecting Theodore (a third pairing d-man in Anaheim) while also taking $3.25 million off the books.  Yes, losing Theo hurts, but I don't think this is bad asset mismanagement.  I think it would be awfully hard to do much better while still having a good team. 

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5 hours ago, PetrSykora said:

I remember some guy signing up to this forum to "curse" our franchise shortly after that news broke. We laughed at the time but considering how things have gone since, I think I might be a believer. Glad he's gone :ph34r:

Also, holy cap space Vatman! 

Uhh... Damn. I was gonna toilet all over your bear curse. But if I think about it, the Ducks finally beat their Game 7 curse while Stoner was sidelined for the better part of a season. 

Stanley Cup 2018 here we come!

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14 hours ago, nieder said:

I would hold onto Vats for now and consider trading him at the deadline next year for forward help.

More likely to be traded at the draft. Deadline deals are typically for rentals.

Hopefully there's a good market for him. At least our cap space now enables us to sign some FA as well. Not sure who's available, but we easily could sign a goal scorer for Stoner's departed salary.

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8 hours ago, gorbachav5 said:

I agree completely with your last sentence.  BM isn't perfect, and his hands were tied a bit by the mess he created himself (too many bad defense contracts and not enough good forwards).  But they were also tied by very favorable ED rules for Vegas as well as his own drafting prowess (too many good young d-men).

As for dumping Stoner, if his exiting contract pays for Eaves, I'm okay with that.  I'd still rather not re-sign Eaves for more than two years, but at least the cost for next year is paid for by Stoner's contract.

I see this as Vegas selecting Theodore (a third pairing d-man in Anaheim) while also taking $3.25 million off the books.  Yes, losing Theo hurts, but I don't think this is bad asset mismanagement.  I think it would be awfully hard to do much better while still having a good team. 

People who are mad about this are glossing this fact. We have more good defensemen than we could protect, and that is entirely due to excellent drafting. Hamper and Cam were high picks. Theo was at the end of the first. Montour? 2nd round. Vats? 4th round. Manson? The friggin' 6th round. That is incredible drafting and development. Teams would kill to have that problem.

Murray's biggest flaw has been handing out horrible veteran defenseman contracts/being too generous with NMCs. And still, only Bieksa's contract had an impact on this by taking up a protection spot. But that is just one spot. Regardless, we would have had to give Vegas something or risk losing Vatanen or Manson. 

So, all in all, we made out like bandits by giving up Theo, cutting dead weight, and keeping our draft picks (which Bob Murray has shown he knows how to use).

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1 hour ago, BestOfTheWest said:

More likely to be traded at the draft. Deadline deals are typically for rentals.

Hopefully there's a good market for him. At least our cap space now enables us to sign some FA as well. Not sure who's available, but we easily could sign a goal scorer for Stoner's departed salary.

I feel like we might get more value for him at the deadline simply because he's expected to miss the first half of the season. That could partially affect his value at the draft. If he were to return at the midway point at least we could showcase him for 20 games before the deadline.

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1 hour ago, nieder said:

I feel like we might get more value for him at the deadline simply because he's expected to miss the first half of the season. That could partially affect his value at the draft. If he were to return at the midway point at least we could showcase him for 20 games before the deadline.

I don't think there's a chance in hell that BM trades a top-4 D-man at the deadline. The SC playoffs are a grind, and every season our blue line suffers major injuries either leading up to or during the playoffs. BM stockpiles D-men for this reason. Since 2009, the only times BM has moved a D-man out at the deadline is when he was acquiring a better one in return (Visnovsky-Whitney,  Beauchemin-Gardiner, Despres-Lovejoy). If you're planning to move Vatanen, that's something you do at the entry draft.

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Good point, he does love to load up on defensemen. If anything we will probably add D at the deadline.

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2 hours ago, nieder said:

I feel like we might get more value for him at the deadline simply because he's expected to miss the first half of the season. That could partially affect his value at the draft. If he were to return at the midway point at least we could showcase him for 20 games before the deadline.

Best time to make moves like that are during the summer -- normally during or right before the draft. It's when teams have the most cap space before they blow it all on free agents. 

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If vatanen isn't moved by the training camp, I say hold onto him through the year.

 

Moving him would resulting in a thinning of our once very deep defense, but this team has a burning need for a young forward that can be brought along with Ritchie and Rakell as the next core upfront.

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On 6/21/2017 at 5:58 PM, dtsdlaw said:

I'm old enough to remember when Theodore was being blocked by Fowler and Lindholm and we needed to move one of 4/47 to make way for his young talent. Oh wait, that was last June.... 

:P

Honestly, until Monty proves he can be a top-4, play-in-all-situations guy over an 82 game grind + playoffs, I just don't see how we move Vats. Monty today is Theo one year ago.... R-A-W.  So far he looks great after just 44 games, but it could go a lot of different ways for him. And we have zero depth on the right side beyond the guys we already have at the NHL level. There's no right-shot version of Larsson currently in our system. In fact, aside from Monty, we only have ONE right-shot D-man anywhere in our system and that's Welinski, who is already 24 and hasn't even sniffed the NHL yet. 

We're in fine cap shape and we don't need to move anyone from our current roster, so if you're looking to trade for a young, top-line LW how about starting with something like Jones+Mahura+pick.  Don't thin out a position that doesn't have much organizational depth.

With Vatanen out for the start of the season Montour will certain get a chance to show if he can step into a top four role...

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I'm most interested to see if one of Megna, Larsson, Welinski, or Mahura can take advantage of the roster openings.

 

Mahura in particular has been making some waves lately.

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48 minutes ago, liquid13 said:

If vatanen isn't moved by the training camp, I say hold onto him through the year.

 

Moving him would resulting in a thinning of our once very deep defense, but this team has a burning need for a young forward that can be brought along with Ritchie and Rakell as the next core upfront.

I think we've got a few good ones in the pipeline in Jones, Steel, and Terry. I wouldn't be surprised to see one of those guys make it past the final cut this Fall. It doesn't help us in the immediate future, but long term we'll be alright.

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10 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

I think we've got a few good ones in the pipeline in Jones, Steel, and Terry. I wouldn't be surprised to see one of those guys make it past the final cut this Fall. It doesn't help us in the immediate future, but long term we'll be alright.

The tough thing is that they really need help in the immediate future.  As exciting as those forward prospects are, none of them are sure things.  Getting Drouin (just as an example) would have been sure help up front. They really need a kid like that.  Now that they've jettisoned most of the defensive excess plus one guy who had potential but was somewhat superfluous, it would be a big hit to the defensive depth to deal a guy like Vatanen now.

It looks like they'll have to find a stop gap.  Bonino or Joe Thornton are the two I'd target.  Neither solves the long-term issue, but hopefully that will be taken care of by the upcoming kids.  Thornton will be easier to get on a short-term deal than Bonino.

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I keep looking at him.  Particularly now that Kes is on mend time.  Don't forget, just in case the owners wanted to, they could potentially put Kes AND Vats on LTIR to boost cap.... for a while.

But, there are wingers we can get for cheap that scored 30+ points last year.

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I like Terry, Steel and Jones, but those aren't the types of players I'm talking about. They're complement types. Maybe Steel breaks that mold, but Jones and Terry I see as topping out as 2nd liners.

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