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nieder

McDavid

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1 hour ago, Fowl said:

Somebody should offer sheet Draisaitl just to force Edmonton into another insane contract.  

I wonder if Vegas can offer sheet him.

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This deal isn't what could submarine the Oilers ... you don't get worse just because you pay one of the two best players in the league the most money. If Jonathan Toews is worth $10.5 million, McDavid certainly warrants what he got. Also relevant, but he is taking up about the same percentage of the cap that Crosby did when he signed his first non entry level deal. Again, things don't go wrong because you pay great players a lot of money.

Where the Oilers are going to run into trouble is how Chiarelli surrounds McDavid, and if I'm an Oilers fan I'm not very confident in his ability to do so. That Lucic contract is going to haunt them for as long as he's on the team (and probably longer), and Sekera at $5.5 million and Kris Russell at $4 million for the next four years is nothing to be proud of. Of the three holdovers from pre-McDavid (Eberle, Hall and Nugent-Hopkins), the Oilers probably kept the least effective player with N-H. Chiarelli has shown a consistent ability going back to when he was with the Bruins to make trades where he is giving up the best player for 50 cents on the dollar. How do you build a consistent winner like that while also handing out the contracts he has?

Then you get to Draisaitl, who might legitimately be a great player ... but the Oilers play him so much with McDavid (and Hall in 15-16) that you don't really know if he can carry his own line or if he's just a product of his linemates. Would you really be comfortable paying him $9-10 million a year? I wouldn't. 

The Oilers are going to be an interesting team in 2017-18 and oddly it might be their best chance at a Cup despite the fact that it feels like they just arrived. Just can't envision, aside from their young players and prospects simply getting better, how they can maneuver to get better. Even with potentially the best player in hockey, teams can get stuck in the mud by making bad personnel decisions — look at the Penguins for awhile after they won it all in 2009. I don't consider the McDavid deal to be a bad decision — far from it — but I'm certainly not handing the Oilers a Cup with Chiarelli's history. 

/end

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The Oilers do have some high paid protection out there with McDavid.  I think that is a wise decision to have a lot of team toughness, since the lad needs some protection to allow him to flourish.   I was glad to see Ryan Reeves end up in Pittsburgh, since Crosby takes way too much abuse, and that would only be countered by icing a bodyguard.  The Oilers could be a dangerous bunch moving forward, and it could be now.  

 

I actually expected McDavid to get upward of $13M, so, the $100M /8 year is not bad considering.  The second contract with Draisaitl is the one in question.

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6 hours ago, ritz10hock said:

This deal isn't what could submarine the Oilers ... you don't get worse just because you pay one of the two best players in the league the most money. If Jonathan Toews is worth $10.5 million, McDavid certainly warrants what he got. Also relevant, but he is taking up about the same percentage of the cap that Crosby did when he signed his first non entry level deal. Again, things don't go wrong because you pay great players a lot of money.

Where the Oilers are going to run into trouble is how Chiarelli surrounds McDavid, and if I'm an Oilers fan I'm not very confident in his ability to do so. That Lucic contract is going to haunt them for as long as he's on the team (and probably longer), and Sekera at $5.5 million and Kris Russell at $4 million for the next four years is nothing to be proud of. Of the three holdovers from pre-McDavid (Eberle, Hall and Nugent-Hopkins), the Oilers probably kept the least effective player with N-H. Chiarelli has shown a consistent ability going back to when he was with the Bruins to make trades where he is giving up the best player for 50 cents on the dollar. How do you build a consistent winner like that while also handing out the contracts he has?

Then you get to Draisaitl, who might legitimately be a great player ... but the Oilers play him so much with McDavid (and Hall in 15-16) that you don't really know if he can carry his own line or if he's just a product of his linemates. Would you really be comfortable paying him $9-10 million a year? I wouldn't. 

The Oilers are going to be an interesting team in 2017-18 and oddly it might be their best chance at a Cup despite the fact that it feels like they just arrived. Just can't envision, aside from their young players and prospects simply getting better, how they can maneuver to get better. Even with potentially the best player in hockey, teams can get stuck in the mud by making bad personnel decisions — look at the Penguins for awhile after they won it all in 2009. I don't consider the McDavid deal to be a bad decision — far from it — but I'm certainly not handing the Oilers a Cup with Chiarelli's history. 

/end

Interesting thoughts on Draisaitl. The guy is talented. I think he might blossom into an excellent power forward. He hurt us in The Playoffs. But I've seen too little of him to judge whether his level of play is because of playing with McDavid. Then again does it matter? Look at Kunitz in Pittsburgh. I always liked Kunitz, I still do, but he isn't the most talented player out there. Playing with Crosby inflated his numbers. But I don't think anybody complained about it. Of course Kunitz wasn't getting paid what Draisaitl will get (be it 7 or 9 mil). Or Maroon. How many did he score last season? 20+?

If the oilers really think Draisaitl can carry his own line they'll pay him accordingly I guess. If they don't it'd be funny to see someone offersheet him.

As for the 'bad' contracts. There's always a way to work around it more or less. They'll buy-out lucic sooner or later. I think they might find a taker for nuge if they want to move him (maybe retain some salary). The cap will probably keep rising and who knows when the next expansion is gonna be. Some of chiarelli's decisions have been questionable but he did win The Cup in Boston. So I'm not gonna judge him yet. If we kept up our impressive game 7 losing streak they'd be in the conference finals.

I don't know whether Pittsburgh is a good example. They've won The Cup twice since 2009. Not too shabby. I'd be ecstatic if we'd have won it twice since 2007 :lol:

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15 hours ago, ritz10hock said:

This deal isn't what could submarine the Oilers ... you don't get worse just because you pay one of the two best players in the league the most money. If Jonathan Toews is worth $10.5 million, McDavid certainly warrants what he got. Also relevant, but he is taking up about the same percentage of the cap that Crosby did when he signed his first non entry level deal. Again, things don't go wrong because you pay great players a lot of money.

Where the Oilers are going to run into trouble is how Chiarelli surrounds McDavid, and if I'm an Oilers fan I'm not very confident in his ability to do so. That Lucic contract is going to haunt them for as long as he's on the team (and probably longer), and Sekera at $5.5 million and Kris Russell at $4 million for the next four years is nothing to be proud of. Of the three holdovers from pre-McDavid (Eberle, Hall and Nugent-Hopkins), the Oilers probably kept the least effective player with N-H. Chiarelli has shown a consistent ability going back to when he was with the Bruins to make trades where he is giving up the best player for 50 cents on the dollar. How do you build a consistent winner like that while also handing out the contracts he has?

Then you get to Draisaitl, who might legitimately be a great player ... but the Oilers play him so much with McDavid (and Hall in 15-16) that you don't really know if he can carry his own line or if he's just a product of his linemates. Would you really be comfortable paying him $9-10 million a year? I wouldn't. 

The Oilers are going to be an interesting team in 2017-18 and oddly it might be their best chance at a Cup despite the fact that it feels like they just arrived. Just can't envision, aside from their young players and prospects simply getting better, how they can maneuver to get better. Even with potentially the best player in hockey, teams can get stuck in the mud by making bad personnel decisions — look at the Penguins for awhile after they won it all in 2009. I don't consider the McDavid deal to be a bad decision — far from it — but I'm certainly not handing the Oilers a Cup with Chiarelli's history. 

/end

The Oilers HAD to lock up McDavid long term, they were going to pay whatever they had to. Which was the right move.

The thing is, the cap probably isn't going to increase at the same rate the cap did after Crosby signed his long term deal. It's going to be harder for Chiarelli to build a supporting cast. Made even harder by the player contracts you mentioned. Kris Russell for $16M over 4 years? WTF is that? Buffoonery. 

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5 minutes ago, nieder said:

The Oilers HAD to lock up McDavid long term, they were going to pay whatever they had to. Which was the right move.

The thing is, the cap probably isn't going to increase at the same rate the cap did after Crosby signed his long term deal. It's going to be harder for Chiarelli to build a supporting cast. Made even harder by the player contracts you mentioned. Kris Russell for $16M over 4 years? WTF is that? Buffoonery. 

Imagine what would happen if the Oilers didn't offer him this and he went elsewhere. The GM would need armed security. They will definitely be competitive but they will need some sort of supporting cast for them to bring home the Cup 

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9 hours ago, DucksFan_08 said:

Interesting thoughts on Draisaitl. The guy is talented. I think he might blossom into an excellent power forward. He hurt us in The Playoffs. But I've seen too little of him to judge whether his level of play is because of playing with McDavid. Then again does it matter? Look at Kunitz in Pittsburgh. I always liked Kunitz, I still do, but he isn't the most talented player out there. Playing with Crosby inflated his numbers. But I don't think anybody complained about it. Of course Kunitz wasn't getting paid what Draisaitl will get (be it 7 or 9 mil). Or Maroon. How many did he score last season? 20+?

If the oilers really think Draisaitl can carry his own line they'll pay him accordingly I guess. If they don't it'd be funny to see someone offersheet him.

As for the 'bad' contracts. There's always a way to work around it more or less. They'll buy-out lucic sooner or later. I think they might find a taker for nuge if they want to move him (maybe retain some salary). The cap will probably keep rising and who knows when the next expansion is gonna be. Some of chiarelli's decisions have been questionable but he did win The Cup in Boston. So I'm not gonna judge him yet. If we kept up our impressive game 7 losing streak they'd be in the conference finals.

I don't know whether Pittsburgh is a good example. They've won The Cup twice since 2009. Not too shabby. I'd be ecstatic if we'd have won it twice since 2007 :lol:

It took the Penguins realizing they needed a new GM and a new coach (and Rutherford wasn't a popular hire at the time) to start a new direction for the team that got these last two Cups. From 2010-2015, even taking into account Crosby's absence, the Penguins were pretty underwhelming. 

Kunitz with Crosby is an important example to bring up. The Penguins look like a deeper team than they really are because they stick average players (Kunitz, Pascal Dupuis, Bryan Rust, Jake Guentzel, Conor Sheary) with Crosby and he turns them into scorers. These days you're not really maximizing your roster by loading up your top players on one line. The Ducks have kinda learned this over the past two years by splitting up Getzlaf and Perry (because anyone can score with Getzlaf). But that's what Edmonton did last year, instead of getting an extended look at Draisaitl by himself to see if he's a product of McDavid or not. And his numbers during the regular season w/o McDavid (small sample size) weren't very good. 

Yes, Edmonton was a win away from the conference final with the roster they had last year, so maybe they are more a break or two away from real contention than a player or two. I'm not so sure. The Ducks dominated that series in every game aside from Game 6. Edmonton was fortunate that Talbot played on his head and the series even went 7. 

Regardless, not looking forward to nine more years of McDavid burning the Ducks. 

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1 hour ago, nieder said:

The Oilers HAD to lock up McDavid long term, they were going to pay whatever they had to. Which was the right move.

The thing is, the cap probably isn't going to increase at the same rate the cap did after Crosby signed his long term deal. It's going to be harder for Chiarelli to build a supporting cast. Made even harder by the player contracts you mentioned. Kris Russell for $16M over 4 years? WTF is that? Buffoonery. 

Russell was one guy on my wishlist from the free agents market this year. I liked him against us, blocks a lot of shots, he was strong. 4 Mio/year is okay, he's better then for example Bieksa his 4 Mio....

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4 hours ago, Spike1981 said:

Russell was one guy on my wishlist from the free agents market this year. I liked him against us, blocks a lot of shots, he was strong. 4 Mio/year is okay, he's better then for example Bieksa his 4 Mio....

Being better than Bieksa isn't much of an accomplishment. All of his advanced stats are terrible. Basically every time he steps on the ice for the Oilers their possession and shot attempt numbers take a dive. Even Oilers fans hate his new deal.

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4 hours ago, Spike1981 said:

Russell was one guy on my wishlist from the free agents market this year. I liked him against us, blocks a lot of shots, he was strong. 4 Mio/year is okay, he's better then for example Bieksa his 4 Mio....

Racking up the shot-blocking numbers generally means you're a player who plays a lot on your own zone. There are exceptions (Getzlaf), but Russell isn't one of them. 

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14 hours ago, ritz10hock said:

It took the Penguins realizing they needed a new GM and a new coach (and Rutherford wasn't a popular hire at the time) to start a new direction for the team that got these last two Cups. From 2010-2015, even taking into account Crosby's absence, the Penguins were pretty underwhelming. 

Kunitz with Crosby is an important example to bring up. The Penguins look like a deeper team than they really are because they stick average players (Kunitz, Pascal Dupuis, Bryan Rust, Jake Guentzel, Conor Sheary) with Crosby and he turns them into scorers. These days you're not really maximizing your roster by loading up your top players on one line. The Ducks have kinda learned this over the past two years by splitting up Getzlaf and Perry (because anyone can score with Getzlaf). But that's what Edmonton did last year, instead of getting an extended look at Draisaitl by himself to see if he's a product of McDavid or not. And his numbers during the regular season w/o McDavid (small sample size) weren't very good. 

Yes, Edmonton was a win away from the conference final with the roster they had last year, so maybe they are more a break or two away from real contention than a player or two. I'm not so sure. The Ducks dominated that series in every game aside from Game 6. Edmonton was fortunate that Talbot played on his head and the series even went 7. 

Regardless, not looking forward to nine more years of McDavid burning the Ducks. 

I need to get you writing for OilersNation.com!

 

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19 hours ago, ZTHER said:

I need to get you writing for OilersNation.com!

 

I'm perfectly fine trolling their fans on twitter!

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  1. Connor McDavid $100M contract extension with #Oilers has $86M paid out in Signing Bonus. Here is the breakdown in each year of the deal.

    DELTvI5XsAA3AC8.jpg
     
  2. McDavid's contract also contains a No Move clause starting in 2022-23, the first year in which he would have been eligible for Free Agency.

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2 hours ago, Fisix said:

that doesn't change the cap hit, right?

No, but it makes it impossible to buy out.

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I need someone to hold my hand and explain to me why the base salary looks like the bonus column and said bonus column looks like the base. Perhaps it has something to do with being impossible to buyout as noted above, but I'm still at a loss as to why the bonuses is where the significant money is at. 

Something to do with being an RFA?

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8 hours ago, poum said:

I need someone to hold my hand and explain to me why the base salary looks like the bonus column and said bonus column looks like the base. Perhaps it has something to do with being impossible to buyout as noted above, but I'm still at a loss as to why the bonuses is where the significant money is at. 

Something to do with being an RFA?

I think it might also have to do with the potential for labor issues down the road.  Fowler was asking for his contract be structured in a certain way as well so that he would be at less risk if there were a lockout.

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On 7/7/2017 at 9:48 PM, dtsdlaw said:

No, but it makes it impossible to buy out.

how?  do you mean the bulk of the money can't be cut to 1/3rd and accelerated in a buyout, because it's called a signing bonus?

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7 hours ago, Fisix said:

how?  do you mean the bulk of the money can't be cut to 1/3rd and accelerated in a buyout, because it's called a signing bonus?

Yes, signing bonuses apparently cannot be bought out according to the 1/3 or 2/3 calculation. The whole signing bonus gets paid in full. And try playing with the buyout calculator on Capfriendly and you'll see what the cap hit numbers look like. Ouch.

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On 08/07/2017 at 5:15 AM, poum said:

I need someone to hold my hand and explain to me why the base salary looks like the bonus column and said bonus column looks like the base. Perhaps it has something to do with being impossible to buyout as noted above, but I'm still at a loss as to why the bonuses is where the significant money is at. 

Something to do with being an RFA?

I have no idea. Maybe they wanted to make his contract completely untradeable out of some fear that he wakes up one day and finally realizes that he's playing in Edmonton? :ph34r:

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On 7/8/2017 at 3:15 AM, poum said:

I need someone to hold my hand and explain to me why the base salary looks like the bonus column and said bonus column looks like the base. Perhaps it has something to do with being impossible to buyout as noted above, but I'm still at a loss as to why the bonuses is where the significant money is at. 

Something to do with being an RFA?

Maybe McDavid wants to hit up Vegas every July 1st so he needs the big lump sum payment every year.

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6 hours ago, nieder said:

Maybe McDavid wants to hit up Vegas every July 1st so he needs the big lump sum payment every year.

I understand you're being facetious. But any team willing to take that cap hit would be a team from the Island of Misfit Toys (Arizona). Edmonton pays off the signing bonus. A cap friendly team sucks up the cap hit. 

And I think he has an NMC the last several seasons of his contract. Around the time you would theoritcaly trade him if that was the a thing. 

I guess we should hope he gets married in the next couple years. His wife loves Edmonton the same way Prongers did and we score!

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43 minutes ago, poum said:

I understand you're being facetious. But any team willing to take that cap hit would be a team from the Island of Misfit Toys (Arizona). Edmonton pays off the signing bonus. A cap friendly team sucks up the cap hit. 

And I think he has an NMC the last several seasons of his contract. Around the time you would theoritcaly trade him if that was the a thing. 

I guess we should hope he gets married in the next couple years. His wife loves Edmonton the same way Prongers did and we score!

Perhaps his wife will enjoy his homes ( future ) in NYC, Fla, and LA - while he still spends the winters in Edmonton :D

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McDavid probably deserves the money, but man these contracts start setting standards and looks like we're on our way to another lockout 

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17 hours ago, Sexlaf15 said:

McDavid probably deserves the money, but man these contracts start setting standards and looks like we're on our way to another lockout 

Definitely. Some of the deals handed out this offseason hint at the kind of cap mismanagement and overpayments that always seem to grind the league to a bloody halt.

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I seriously think this is at least partially Gretzky attempting to live vicariously through McDavid.  It's not as if Gretz didn't eventually get paid, but weren't his early contracts fairly low?  I think he wants good players to come out with enough to purchase teams.

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4 hours ago, Fisix said:

I seriously think this is at least partially Gretzky attempting to live vicariously through McDavid.  It's not as if Gretz didn't eventually get paid, but weren't his early contracts fairly low?  I think he wants good players to come out with enough to purchase teams.

This is the Oilers paying one of the two best hockey players on the planet as such. Nothing more. 

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21 hours ago, Fisix said:

I seriously think this is at least partially Gretzky attempting to live vicariously through McDavid.  It's not as if Gretz didn't eventually get paid, but weren't his early contracts fairly low?  I think he wants good players to come out with enough to purchase teams.

McDavid is arguably the league's best player now and very well may be for years to come.  I don't think Gretzky has much to do with it. Early to say, but he might be the first one to come along and be better than Gretzky....time will tell.

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