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2017-2018 NHL Catch-All

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Hejduk is our version of Giguere, only if Giguere had played exclusively for the Ducks.  And there are plenty of Ducks fans who think Giguere should be in even though he DIDN'T play exclusively for the Ducks.  They were both good players, but not elite, although they both had some very good seasons.  Both won one Cup with their team and were instrumental in that Cup run.  Both were fan favorites.  The main differences are that Hejduk played only for the Avs and Giguere has the Conn Smythe. 

For my money, Hejduk is right on the borderline of a player who should have his number retired.  He had a long-ish career all with one franchise and was beloved.  He was a very good player.  Normally I'm only for elite players (i.e. Hall of Famers) having their numbers retired, but I could at least see it for Hejduk.  I probably still would not retire it (I think it's tempting for a franchise to go down a slippery slope once you retire a number of a non-HoFer), but I can see it.  Giguere is just on the wrong side of that line for me.  Had he spent his whole career with the Ducks, I would be much more amenable to his jersey retirement.

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Biases aside, I don't think Hejduk is on the same level as Giguere. He's loved in Colorado and spent his entire career putting up solid numbers there sure but take him off of those early Colorado teams and they'd likely still be powerhouses. At worst they don't win the Cup in 2001. Take away Giguere from the Ducks and this team certainly never has that miracle 03 run to the SCF. If hyperbole is your type of thing, you could argue that no Giguere in 2003 means that the team never gets sold to owners who wanted to keep the team local, different management coming out of the lockout, no 2007 championship and potentially none of this consistent success we've seen since. As individuals they're somewhat comparable but when you consider their significance to their franchises, Giguere comes out ahead. 

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I'm generally indifferent to other teams' decisions to hang numbers in their rafters. I'm not a part of their fanbase, so who am I to have an opinion about what that player meant to the organization, right? Hejduk seems pretty beloved in Denver and he was a critical part of their success, so good for him and their fans.

As far as a comparison goes with Giguere, I don't think skaters and netminders are comparable. Netminders can't "hang on" to a roster spot with one team later in their careers the way skaters can. Therefore, I don't think longevity with a single franchise should give a skater a leg up on a netminder.

IMO, Giguere equates more to Mike Vernon in terms of achievements and longevity with the franchise who retired his number, as well as genuine affection from the fanbase. I'd like to see Jiggy's #35 hanging up in our rafters just like Vernon's is in Calgary's because I think Jiggy was a pivotal, transformative, and beloved player for our franchise the same way Vernon was for the Flames. And as far as the argument about opening the floodgates to other "undeserving" players (which always seems to come up when we discuss raising #35), Vernon's #30 is one of only two numbers hanging in Calgary's rafters despite his Flames teams making two SCF appearances and winning one Cup. So I don't really see it being a problem as long as you have an organization that really loves and respects the game more than their own bottom line (coughrangerscough).

 

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5 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

I'm generally indifferent to other teams' decisions to hang numbers in their rafters. I'm not a part of their fanbase, so who am I to have an opinion about what that player meant to the organization, right? Hejduk seems pretty beloved in Denver and he was a critical part of their success, so good for him and their fans.

As far as a comparison goes with Giguere, I don't think skaters and netminders are comparable. Netminders can't "hang on" to a roster spot with one team later in their careers the way skaters can. Therefore, I don't think longevity with a single franchise should give a skater a leg up on a netminder.

IMO, Giguere equates more to Mike Vernon in terms of achievements and longevity with the franchise who retired his number, as well as genuine affection from the fanbase. I'd like to see Jiggy's #35 hanging up in our rafters just like Vernon's is in Calgary's because I think Jiggy was a pivotal, transformative, and beloved player for our franchise the same way Vernon was for the Flames. And as far as the argument about opening the floodgates to other "undeserving" players (which always seems to come up when we discuss raising #35), Vernon's #30 is one of only two numbers hanging in Calgary's rafters despite his Flames teams making two SCF appearances and winning one Cup. So I don't really see it being a problem as long as you have an organization that really loves and respects the game more than their own bottom line (coughrangerscough).

 

Giguere has a Cup and a Conn Smythe, and he is the franchise leader in games, wins and shutouts (in both regular season and playoffs). I feel like his hardware and stats are there or thereabouts. But then you add the fact that he's beloved by the fanbase and it becomes a no-brainer IMO. 

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1 hour ago, nieder said:

Giguere has a Cup and a Conn Smythe, and he is the franchise leader in games, wins and shutouts (in both regular season and playoffs). I feel like his hardware and stats are there or thereabouts. But then you add the fact that he's beloved by the fanbase and it becomes a no-brainer IMO. 

I was at The Pond for Selanne's last game when he and Giggy skated arm in arm. What a roaring cheer from the fans! I don't think any Ducks' fan would be disappointed if #35 was retired. 

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On 9/4/2017 at 1:29 AM, poum said:

I gotta say, I'm surprised that the Boston Z's haven't signed Pasternak yet. They got all the cap space needed. 

...wait. Is Claude Lemeuix his agent?

Pasternak signs for $6.66M for six years. Not bad. I still think it's kinda high after an ELC contract for one ridiculously good season. But the kid did score roughly 30g and 70p. That does command money. And in that spirit of getting paid for one good season, I can't complain much when the Ducks signed Old Man Beard for one good season. 

At least Boston is trying to reverse Chiarelli's stupid inflation. 

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The Leafs are going for a second season without a Captain. Seems like a silly idea to me. If you sign a Patty Marleau for $6M+ for three years, might as well utilize the senior most player on the team. Yes, he's the new kid in town. But if the reasoning is letting someone like Matthews get more NHL seasoning before slapping the "C" on his chest, than an interim like Patty is a good call. Spent the money, might as well use it. 

On the other hand leaders gonna lead, right?  Ducks signed a Beauchemin to do as much.

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9 hours ago, DuckFan4Life said:

I was at The Pond for Selanne's last game when he and Giggy skated arm in arm. What a roaring cheer from the fans! I don't think any Ducks' fan would be disappointed if #35 was retired. 

I was there too. Great moment. Glad Avs coach put Giggy in the game. 

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8 hours ago, BiolaRunner said:

I was there too. Great moment. Glad Avs coach put Giggy in the game. 

It was special moment just symbolic of 2 Ducks Greats.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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TRADE ALERT: The @ArizonaCoyotes get D Jason Demers from the @FlaPanthers in exchange for LW Jamie McGinn. MORE: http://tsn.ca/1.858877 

FLA retains 12.5 per cent of Demers' salary in the McGinn deal w/ARIZ

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50 minutes ago, DuckFan4Life said:

TRADE ALERT: The @ArizonaCoyotes get D Jason Demers from the @FlaPanthers in exchange for LW Jamie McGinn. MORE: http://tsn.ca/1.858877 

FLA retains 12.5 per cent of Demers' salary in the McGinn deal w/ARIZ

Good Trade there. may benefit both sides.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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Lupul accusing the Leafs of rigging results of his physical, on Instagram. 

@darrendreger Bill Daly on Lupul's accusation last night.  "We aren't in a position to comment right now. That may or may not change when we know more."

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On 9/14/2017 at 7:07 PM, nieder said:

Giguere has a Cup and a Conn Smythe, and he is the franchise leader in games, wins and shutouts (in both regular season and playoffs). I feel like his hardware and stats are there or thereabouts. But then you add the fact that he's beloved by the fanbase and it becomes a no-brainer IMO. 

I've actually softened to retiring his number... I just think it needs to be done after Kariya's 

I'd be open to retiring #24 as well or keeping it a unofficial off limits number.

Edited by ZTHER
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On 9/17/2017 at 1:12 PM, DuckFan4Life said:

TRADE ALERT: The @ArizonaCoyotes get D Jason Demers from the @FlaPanthers in exchange for LW Jamie McGinn. MORE: http://tsn.ca/1.858877 

FLA retains 12.5 per cent of Demers' salary in the McGinn deal w/ARIZ

Demers voided the trade to Vancouver because of tax reasons...

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7 hours ago, DuckFan4Life said:

Lupul accusing the Leafs of rigging results of his physical, on Instagram. 

@darrendreger Bill Daly on Lupul's accusation last night.  "We aren't in a position to comment right now. That may or may not change when we know more."

That is not going to end well for Lupul if you ask me.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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19 hours ago, Mooseduck said:

That is not going to end well for Lupul if you ask me.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

Claim that Leafs have something on Lupul and just want him to go away. 

No matter what Joffrey Lupul says, Maple Leafs don't want him and he won't play for them again: @simmonssteve. ow.ly/PZEj30fgx1T

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1 minute ago, DuckFan4Life said:

Claim that Leafs have something on Lupul and just want him to go away. 

No matter what Joffrey Lupul says, Maple Leafs don't want him and he won't play for them again: @simmonssteve. ow.ly/PZEj30fgx1T

A few days ago NHL radio commentators were speculating that Toronto wants Lupul's salary off the books. To do that they predicted that  the Leafs would automatically fail Lupul's physical exam and declare Lupul unfit and would then be able to put him on LTIR. I believe they said that the Leafs would use this strategy on a couple of other players as well.

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Lmaaaaooooo josi captain of the perds why not he already spends over 75% of every game hiding behind the refs might as well take care of some duties for your team while you're there

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4 hours ago, DuckFan4Life said:

Claim that Leafs have something on Lupul and just want him to go away. 

No matter what Joffrey Lupul says, Maple Leafs don't want him and he won't play for them again: @simmonssteve. ow.ly/PZEj30fgx1T

He's going to get buried in AHL you watch.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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1 hour ago, Mooseduck said:

He's going to get buried in AHL you watch.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

Do you mean Robidas Island Moose? I'm not sure I would want to play for the Leafs, especially in my later years. 

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Mikko Koivu  signed a two year extension to 2019-2020. A $5.5M deal per two years. 

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On 9/14/2017 at 1:21 PM, dtsdlaw said:

I'm generally indifferent to other teams' decisions to hang numbers in their rafters. I'm not a part of their fanbase, so who am I to have an opinion about what that player meant to the organization, right? Hejduk seems pretty beloved in Denver and he was a critical part of their success, so good for him and their fans.

As far as a comparison goes with Giguere, I don't think skaters and netminders are comparable. Netminders can't "hang on" to a roster spot with one team later in their careers the way skaters can. Therefore, I don't think longevity with a single franchise should give a skater a leg up on a netminder.

IMO, Giguere equates more to Mike Vernon in terms of achievements and longevity with the franchise who retired his number, as well as genuine affection from the fanbase. I'd like to see Jiggy's #35 hanging up in our rafters just like Vernon's is in Calgary's because I think Jiggy was a pivotal, transformative, and beloved player for our franchise the same way Vernon was for the Flames. And as far as the argument about opening the floodgates to other "undeserving" players (which always seems to come up when we discuss raising #35), Vernon's #30 is one of only two numbers hanging in Calgary's rafters despite his Flames teams making two SCF appearances and winning one Cup. So I don't really see it being a problem as long as you have an organization that really loves and respects the game more than their own bottom line (coughrangerscough).

 

The biggest rafter hanger joke was Ray Bourque in Colorado - one season played for the Avs.  Cheapens the whole process.

I guess they needed some banners.  

Fast forward to now:  Colorado has really turned into a circus with Sakic at the helm.

Edited by Fowl

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On 9/19/2017 at 7:47 PM, DuckFan4Life said:

Do you mean Robidas Island Moose? I'm not sure I would want to play for the Leafs, especially in my later years. 

who Knows...But I know IF a player makes remark on a team that is well known they will get some pushback.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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1 minute ago, Mooseduck said:

who Knows...But I know IF a player makes remark on a team that is well known they will get some pushback.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

Lupul put out an apology today.

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3 minutes ago, DuckFan4Life said:

Lupul put out an apology today.

Would be enough.....only time will tell.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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7 hours ago, Fowl said:

The biggest rafter hanger joke was Ray Bourque in Colorado - one season played for the Avs.  Cheapens the whole process.

I guess they needed some banners.  

Fast forward to now:  Colorado has really turned into a circus with Sakic at the helm.

To be fair he played a little over one season in Colorado coming over at the trade deadline in the 1999-2000 season and winning the cup with the Av's in 2000-2001.

And it's Ray Bourque... at the time the 2nd best defenseman ever to play the game.  But yeah, I get it...

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2 hours ago, Mooseduck said:

who Knows...But I know IF a player makes remark on a team that is well known they will get some pushback.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

If he was genuinely serious he would be filing a grievance and not posting on IG after a few to many Sculpins.

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6 hours ago, ZTHER said:

To be fair he played a little over one season in Colorado coming over at the trade deadline in the 1999-2000 season and winning the cup with the Av's in 2000-2001.

And it's Ray Bourque... at the time the 2nd best defenseman ever to play the game.  But yeah, I get it...

You could hang two jerseys in Boston as far as I'm concerned.  He was certainly worthy of that recognition in Boston.  Just not in Colorado.  I feel the same about Niedermayer/Pronger jerseys in Anaheim.  Jersey retirements should be extremely rare.

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21 hours ago, poum said:

If he was genuinely serious he would be filing a grievance and not posting on IG after a few to many Sculpins.

That is true instead of making it public. To me it should have be dealt with privately.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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