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nieder

2017-2018 Injuries

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With the Ducks depleted lineup, Calgary has a pretty good shot at ending the winless streak in the Honda Center tomorrow night.
If they can't take advantage of this situation, then this streak could possibly go on for another 10 years. Your move Flames.

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Lots of good injury news from practice today. Getzlaf and Ritchie took part and could be back tomorrow. Eaves took part for the first time, and Carlyle said he expects Vatanen and Lindholm to be ready before Nov 1 (both also joined the team for practice today). 

http://www.ocregister.com/2017/10/08/getzlaf-could-return-monday-as-ailing-ducks-begin-to-heal/amp/

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nice to start the season like so, the whole 1. line injured  plus Kesler and Miller...

I'm happy about every point we take at the moment.

and now even the CGY-winning-streak is in danger...

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6 hours ago, Spencer_12 said:

Lots of good injury news from practice today. Getzlaf and Ritchie took part and could be back tomorrow. Eaves took part for the first time, and Carlyle said he expects Vatanen and Lindholm to be ready before Nov 1 (both also joined the team for practice today). 

http://www.ocregister.com/2017/10/08/getzlaf-could-return-monday-as-ailing-ducks-begin-to-heal/amp/

Good news, thanks! Let's hope we get at least Getz and Nick and go from there, we need every bit of offense we can get. Also, two big bodies to slam Gaudreau into the boards violently.

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11 hours ago, wataduk said:

With the Ducks depleted lineup, Calgary has a pretty good shot at ending the winless streak in the Honda Center tomorrow night.
If they can't take advantage of this situation, then this streak could possibly go on for another 10 years. Your move Flames.

Ducks know they have reputation to protect...Let us make sure the Ponda Nightmare continues.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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11 hours ago, Spike1981 said:

nice to start the season like so, the whole 1. line injured  plus Kesler and Miller...

I'm happy about every point we take at the moment.

and now even the CGY-winning-streak is in danger...

I look at it more like this is a good team to be playing with a depleted line-up. With this many injuries it kinda helps to be playing against a team that struggles in our building. At least we aren't playing games against the likes of Chicago etc. right now.

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What happened to Eaves? I never did hear his ailment. We're not looking at another Souray summer, career ending injury, right? 

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7 hours ago, poum said:

What happened to Eaves? I never did hear his ailment. We're not looking at another Souray summer, career ending injury, right? 

More likely decent 10-15 goals December through March and then injured again for the playoffs with a game here or there. We knew what we were trading for, and then we signed him. Not exactly a Despres, but we got a naughty habit here.

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48 minutes ago, Aksun said:

More likely decent 10-15 goals December through March and then injured again for the playoffs with a game here or there. We knew what we were trading for, and then we signed him. Not exactly a Despres, but we got a naughty habit here.

Last season was the most games Eaves played in his career. Games played in the 6 seasons before that: 59, 54, 47, 30, 34, 10.

Uh oh. 

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On 10/10/2017 at 11:44 AM, Fisix said:

Any news on Kase?

Any news on anyone?  I haven't heard boo about Lindholm, Vatanen, Kesler or Miller....  Ya, ya, ya.... Kesler will be back around christmas, but are they skating, going to rehab or what?

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48 minutes ago, AyeEye said:

Any news on anyone?  I haven't heard boo about Lindholm, Vatanen, Kesler or Miller....  Ya, ya, ya.... Kesler will be back around christmas, but are they skating, going to rehab or what?

Lindholm and Vatanen are both skating but aren't taking full contact yet from what I've heard.  Miller is close.  My guess is that he's ready to go for the upcoming road trip.

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Eric Stephens makes it sound like both Vats and Lindholm are way ahead of schedule: http://www.ocregister.com/2017/10/11/ducks-notes-key-players-continue-to-rejoin-roster/

Two big questions now on the horizon:

1. What are the new pairings? Do we keep 4-42 together and finally get to see 47-45 for an extended look? Or does everyone get shuffled?

2. And the bigger question, what do you do with all these D-men? The only guy who is exempt from waivers is Montour, but do we really want to send him down? I don't. But if Montour stays, we're probably going to have to expose at least one of Megna or Holzer to waivers (barring a trade or another injury) and then one of Bieksa/Beauchemin will almost certainly be a healthy scratch. I wonder how that will play in the room to have 3 or 23 sitting.

Both of these Qs probably deserve their own thread, but I think its going to make for a very interesting couple of weeks on the personnel front as these guys all get healthy.

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Beauchemin signed on knowing that he was going to have a lesser role. Montour isn’t leaving the lineup unless his play goes down the toilet. Megna will likely be put on waivers, and Beauchemin will be the 7th defenseman on nights when everyone is healthy. Not sure what will happen with Holzer. Maybe they keep 8 D on the roster if they can’t make a trade.

Hozler’s a good spare part to have and Murray might have to pick up another one for insurance during the playoffs at the trade deadline if Holzer gets traded/claimed. I’d like to keep him if it’s possibe to run with 8 D on the roster for the long haul.

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53 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

Eric Stephens makes it sound like both Vats and Lindholm are way ahead of schedule: http://www.ocregister.com/2017/10/11/ducks-notes-key-players-continue-to-rejoin-roster/

Two big questions now on the horizon:

1. What are the new pairings? Do we keep 4-42 together and finally get to see 47-45 for an extended look? Or does everyone get shuffled?

2. And the bigger question, what do you do with all these D-men? The only guy who is exempt from waivers is Montour, but do we really want to send him down? I don't. But if Montour stays, we're probably going to have to expose at least one of Megna or Holzer to waivers (barring a trade or another injury) and then one of Bieksa/Beauchemin will almost certainly be a healthy scratch. I wonder how that will play in the room to have 3 or 23 sitting.

Both of these Qs probably deserve their own thread, but I think its going to make for a very interesting couple of weeks on the personnel front as these guys all get healthy.

1. My preference would be to balance things out.  I think Montour would benefit tremendously by having a guy as solid as Lindholm with him, and we saw that pairing in the playoffs.  Fowler and Manson haven't set the world on fire, but that pairing just makes sense.  You've got the slick-skating Fowler with the bruiser Manson to handle bigger bodies.  And then you put Vatanen on the third pairing with Beauch/Bieksa/Megna.  

2. I don't know, but I'm really worried about Montour.  Maybe I shouldn't be.  He hasn't been great to start the season (although he's trying to carry what remains of Francois Beauchemin - whom I love dearly but is no longer a capable d-man), but he's been okay.  Highest Corsi among defenders, although he's probably been sheltered some.  However, he's waiver eligible and none of the others are.  I sincerely hope we don't see him sent down as a matter of convenience.  There's nothing left for him to do in the AHL.

We can't send Bieksa down, and as much as we've jerked Beauch around with contract stuff throughout the years, I just don't see us waiving him either.  We HAVE waived Holzer before, and he went unclaimed.  I would have no problem doing that again.  If he gets picked up, so be it; as much as I like his ability to step in and out of the lineup, he's still not very good.  We have others in the AHL who can match his play.  At that point you've still got eight d-men.  I think Megna gets claimed if he gets sent down, and while that's not the end of the world, it's still a poor use of a decent bottom of the lineup asset.

A trade for offense would be the best option.  But barring that, I would waive Holzer and send him down to the AHL.  Then I would rotate Megna, Beauch, and Bieksa into the lineup on a rotating basis, along with using one of them to give someone a breather every now and again.  Yes, that means keeping 8 d-men on the roster, but I think that's better than losing Megna for nothing.  I wouldn't be torn up, though, if we waive Megna and he gets claimed.  His ceiling is a solid bottom pairing guy.

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1 hour ago, Spencer_12 said:

Megna will likely be put on waivers...

Nope.  Can't we send various players down without putting people on waivers?

Manson and Fowler probably won't be paired after we get Vats and Lindy back, except in special situations.

Bieksa and Beauch - Beauch might have taken a deal knowing that he'd exit before the end of the season.  I'd see that happening well before we risked any of the other d-men through waivers.  Considering what happened last season, we're going to do our best to keep as many of our current (younger) d-men around and available as possible, including Holzer (who is doing fine, y'all just spoiled seeing some of our other excellent d-men out there).

Aside from that, my preference is in line with that - I wouldn't trade or do anything to reduce the number of d-men available until after we (hopefully) enter the post season.  Someone is going to get injured after December.  We're in a very good position to carry everyone through to the end with us this season... and history says we're going to need them.  Hell, it'd be nice to spell some of the top 4 in the last month of the regular season, give them alternating games off to get those nagging tweaks back in line.

 

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2 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

...and then one of Bieksa/Beauchemin will almost certainly be a healthy scratch. I wonder how that will play in the room to have 3 or 23 sitting.

Come on now, you and I both know Bieksa isn't going to sit while healthy, unless someone fires Carlyle. 

No-one is going to be upset with Beauch being a healthy scratch periodically through the season, not even Beauch.  He's in place as a stop gap while labrums get healthy, and if there are any unforeseen reinjuries.  

Side note - the Aves weren't a good measure (because their sucking could have been impossible to help) - is there any indication that Beauch is a decent d-man coach/mentor?  That's different from being "a veteran in the locker room."  If not, then Beauch is just veteran d-man meat that people like and get along with, and he'll have taken the roll knowing that. 

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I can't see Beauch getting waived and sent down. He has too much history with the team, I don't think BM will do it. Bieksa can't be. That leaves Montour, Holzer and Megna. 

I think we will see Holzer waived and sent down when the first guy comes back. Then it's a toss-up between waiving Megna and possibly losing him for nothing, or sending down Montour. Honestly if we have to choose I'd keep Montour up and risk losing Megna. Megna is going to be a 3rd pairing guy at best and let's be honest, we are in win now mode and Montour is going to help us win.

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1 hour ago, Fisix said:

Come on now, you and I both know Bieksa isn't going to sit while healthy, unless someone fires Carlyle. 

No-one is going to be upset with Beauch being a healthy scratch periodically through the season, not even Beauch.  He's in place as a stop gap while labrums get healthy, and if there are any unforeseen reinjuries.  

Side note - the Aves weren't a good measure (because their sucking could have been impossible to help) - is there any indication that Beauch is a decent d-man coach/mentor?  That's different from being "a veteran in the locker room."  If not, then Beauch is just veteran d-man meat that people like and get along with, and he'll have taken the roll knowing that. 

I disagree. Carlyle has much more history with Beauchemin than he does with Bieksa. They won a friggen Cup together, and let's not forget that Beauchemin has now been added to a Carlyle roster THREE times. Bieksa never has been (he was a hold-over from BB's last team here). I'm also watching Beauchemin skate with Montour to start the season (a pairing that makes sense from a left-right perspective, which RC also seems to prefer), while Bieksa skates with Holzer. If the eventual plan is for our legit top-4 (4, 42, 45, 47) to play together in some permutation (fairly likely) and have Montour play his sheltered minutes on the 3rd pairing, why would RC not try the Bieksa-Montour pairing now? Especially since a Beauchemin-Holzer 3rd pairing would also make sense from a left-right perspective? Also, in terms of Beauchemin v. Bieksa, let's not forget that Beauchemin is close with 15 and 10 and has a long history with them, while Bieksa is Kesler's boy. It's no secret that Bieksa and Perry have a history of animosity, and Kesler is currently nowhere to be seen. Plus, Beauchemin sucks less than Bieksa. So if Beauch sits and Bieksa plays, any locker room issues? Maybe.

As far as Beauchemin's street cred as a mentor, unless you're one of those that thinks Lindholm stepped in as a 19-year-old rookie and dragged Beauchemin through the 2013-14 season (one season after Beauchemin finished 4th in the Norris voting and was a 2nd-team NHL All-Star), then I think Beauchemin's work as an on-ice mentor speaks for itself.

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22 minutes ago, nieder said:

I can't see Beauch getting waived and sent down. He has too much history with the team, I don't think BM will do it. Bieksa can't be. That leaves Montour, Holzer and Megna. 

I think we will see Holzer waived and sent down when the first guy comes back. Then it's a toss-up between waiving Megna and possibly losing him for nothing, or sending down Montour. Honestly if we have to choose I'd keep Montour up and risk losing Megna. Megna is going to be a 3rd pairing guy at best and let's be honest, we are in win now mode and Montour is going to help us win.

Probably this, although depending on where we are with injuries to the forwards (esp. Ritchie and Kase), I could see us rolling with 8 D-men and 13 forwards instead of 7D/14F, so maybe there's only one casualty (Holzer).

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51 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

I disagree. Carlyle has much more history with Beauchemin than he does with Bieksa. They won a friggen Cup together, and let's not forget that Beauchemin has now been added to a Carlyle roster THREE times. Bieksa never has been (he was a hold-over from BB's last team here). I'm also watching Beauchemin skate with Montour to start the season (a pairing that makes sense from a left-right perspective, which RC also seems to prefer), while Bieksa skates with Holzer. If the eventual plan is for our legit top-4 (4, 42, 45, 47) to play together in some permutation (fairly likely) and have Montour play his sheltered minutes on the 3rd pairing, why would RC not try the Bieksa-Montour pairing now? Especially since a Beauchemin-Holzer 3rd pairing would also make sense from a left-right perspective? Also, in terms of Beauchemin v. Bieksa, let's not forget that Beauchemin is close with 15 and 10 and has a long history with them, while Bieksa is Kesler's boy. It's no secret that Bieksa and Perry have a history of animosity, and Kesler is currently nowhere to be seen. Plus, Beauchemin sucks less than Bieksa. So if Beauch sits and Bieksa plays, any locker room issues? Maybe.

As far as Beauchemin's street cred as a mentor, unless you're one of those that thinks Lindholm stepped in as a 19-year-old rookie and dragged Beauchemin through the 2013-14 season (one season after Beauchemin finished 4th in the Norris voting and was a 2nd-team NHL All-Star), then I think Beauchemin's work as an on-ice mentor speaks for itself.

This is all well and good but it pretty much goes against what Beauchemin and the organization has been saying about his role this entire time. I’m not going to go look up all the articles I’ve read concerning the issue since he signed, but he was never signed to be a top 6 defensemen on this team for the entire season. He was never brought in to compete with Bieksa. He was brought in when the Ducks saw that Vatanen and Lindholm weren’t going to be ready to start the season and they had the opportunity to sign someone with experience and familiarity with the organization to cover that hole and ultimately provide depth as the season goes on.

Now that the season is underway, if Beauchemin were to play well consistently and Bieska were to suck consistently then that’s a different conversation, but 4 games into the season is too early for that. 

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1 hour ago, dtsdlaw said:

I disagree. Carlyle has much more history with Beauchemin than he does with Bieksa. They won a friggen Cup together, and let's not forget that Beauchemin has now been added to a Carlyle roster THREE times. Bieksa never has been (he was a hold-over from BB's last team here). I'm also watching Beauchemin skate with Montour to start the season (a pairing that makes sense from a left-right perspective, which RC also seems to prefer), while Bieksa skates with Holzer. If the eventual plan is for our legit top-4 (4, 42, 45, 47) to play together in some permutation (fairly likely) and have Montour play his sheltered minutes on the 3rd pairing, why would RC not try the Bieksa-Montour pairing now? Especially since a Beauchemin-Holzer 3rd pairing would also make sense from a left-right perspective? Also, in terms of Beauchemin v. Bieksa, let's not forget that Beauchemin is close with 15 and 10 and has a long history with them, while Bieksa is Kesler's boy. It's no secret that Bieksa and Perry have a history of animosity, and Kesler is currently nowhere to be seen. Plus, Beauchemin sucks less than Bieksa. So if Beauch sits and Bieksa plays, any locker room issues? Maybe.

As far as Beauchemin's street cred as a mentor, unless you're one of those that thinks Lindholm stepped in as a 19-year-old rookie and dragged Beauchemin through the 2013-14 season (one season after Beauchemin finished 4th in the Norris voting and was a 2nd-team NHL All-Star), then I think Beauchemin's work as an on-ice mentor speaks for itself.

First paragraph - everything you've mentioned is personality... FB is a great guy, but he's not as mobile as Bieksa, nor is he as effective (currently), though to be fair to FB, I'm evaluating KB based on his latter season play last year.  As Spencer noted, if KB begins to suck worse than FB, then maybe there's room for a reevaluation... but FB wasn't brought in to have priority over KB.  And, regarding the Perry thing, that's getting to be water under the bridge after KB hunted a few goons who took liberties with Corey last year.

Second paragraph - that speaks more to his veteran in the locker room cred, as opposed to his coaching cred.  Different skill set, depending how he interacts with his line mate.  If he can do it off the ice, not in the momement, so to speak, then there's less incentive to have him on the ice (but still with the organization). 

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1 hour ago, nieder said:

I can't see Beauch getting waived and sent down. He has too much history with the team, I don't think BM will do it. Bieksa can't be. That leaves Montour, Holzer and Megna. 

I think we will see Holzer waived and sent down when the first guy comes back. Then it's a toss-up between waiving Megna and possibly losing him for nothing, or sending down Montour. Honestly if we have to choose I'd keep Montour up and risk losing Megna. Megna is going to be a 3rd pairing guy at best and let's be honest, we are in win now mode and Montour is going to help us win.

So, to be clear (cause I'm not knowledgeable on this), to send down any of the players we're talking about, you have to waive them?  We got around that last season how?

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Ok, well, here's what I've read:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waivers_(NHL)

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Monty will be moved up and down, rather than risk some other team picking up any of our current d-men.  Even Holzer.

And, if it gets too congested, and things stand as they are, I see FB retiring out of the lineup, or accepting the waiver to the AHL.  We'll keep everyone else for possible trade fodder if everyone is healthy going into the trade deadline.

SIDE NOTE - Kase is listed as IR, with no time slated for return.  Same list also has Eaves down as IR, so it's not an up to date list.  Oh, and Kase is wavier exempt, as is Ritchie.  They could be moved up and down if we need to carry an extra d-man or two.

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3 hours ago, nieder said:

I can't see Beauch getting waived and sent down. He has too much history with the team, I don't think BM will do it. Bieksa can't be. That leaves Montour, Holzer and Megna. 

I think we will see Holzer waived and sent down when the first guy comes back. Then it's a toss-up between waiving Megna and possibly losing him for nothing, or sending down Montour. Honestly if we have to choose I'd keep Montour up and risk losing Megna. Megna is going to be a 3rd pairing guy at best and let's be honest, we are in win now mode and Montour is going to help us win.

RC and BM knew the roster going forward when they talked Beauch out of retirement. Beauch was offered a contract with other teams but didn't want to uproot his family for one year. I would find it very odd for them to go after Beauch after he had every intention to retire, to send him down to the AHL. He was a great mentor for Lindholm and I believe he can also be a great mentor to Montour. My guess is Holzer is put on waivers as he is less likely to be picked up by another team. 

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6 hours ago, Fisix said:

So, to be clear (cause I'm not knowledgeable on this), to send down any of the players we're talking about, you have to waive them?  We got around that last season how?

Capfriendly is your friend. The site will list a player as "waiver exempt" if they are eligible. It's an easy cheat if you don't know the in's and out's. 

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I know that showing respect to veteran players is important, but if Montour gets sent down over Beauchemin and Holzer, I'm not going to be happy.

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I can't see them sending down Montour unless he starts sucking. I do think the team is going to do everything in its power to keep all D men after what happened last year. If we have to waive someone, my money is on Holzer.

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