Jump to content
The Official Site of the Anaheim Ducks

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

oside2006

2018 Free Agency

Recommended Posts

12 hours ago, Fisix said:

Well, forum posters, anyway.  ;)

No, it's more pervasive than that.  Perhaps here in laid back So Cal it's forum posters.  But there are some pretty rabid fanbases, and in hockey you can look at some of the Canadian franchises' fans.  Then you have Sports Radio and the TV networks with their commentators.  It's just the culture for fans to criticize and have their own opinions of how the club should be run.  When the results are there, the complaints generally are less.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, HockeyIzCool said:

No, it's more pervasive than that.  Perhaps here in laid back So Cal it's forum posters.  But there are some pretty rabid fanbases, and in hockey you can look at some of the Canadian franchises' fans.  Then you have Sports Radio and the TV networks with their commentators.  It's just the culture for fans to criticize and have their own opinions of how the club should be run.  When the results are there, the complaints generally are less.

That is SO True also Don't forget Fans outside of the fanbase like myself who love the team and People. Agree to disagree is normal for us Ducks Fans and for the Players they have Supporters and Critics.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, FanSince1993 said:

Oh, well...According to this article, Ducks are not interested in Ilya Kovalchuk.

https://lenta.ru/news/2018/06/13/kovalchuk/

I'll defer to your interpretation since I cannot read whatever language that article is printed in. But I for one am happy the Ducks have no interest in that albatross. I'm hoping the Queens are dumb enough to sign him to a multi year fat contract with a NMC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Shadowduck said:

I'll defer to your interpretation since I cannot read whatever language that article is printed in. But I for one am happy the Ducks have no interest in that albatross. I'm hoping the Queens are dumb enough to sign him to a multi year fat contract with a NMC.

Google Translate basically translated it to say that Anaheim doesn't like Russian players. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, perry_mvp said:

Google Translate basically translated it to say that Anaheim doesn't like Russian players. 

Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, perry_mvp said:

Google Translate basically translated it to say that Anaheim doesn't like Russian players. 

Russian Players do not do well for the Ducks over the years...cept IF it was Goalie like Bryz.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MooseDuck said:

Russian Players do not do well for the Ducks over the years...cept IF it was Goalie like Bryz.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

I think it's more or less the stigma attached to Russian players as to why Anaheim hasn't drafted more of them. Any player from any country can be a big flop. I don't think Anaheim has drafted enough Russian players to say as a whole that they haven't done well. Unless I'm missing someone I think the Ducks have only drafted one Russian in the CBA era (Igor Bobkov).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wait, the Ducks don't want Russian players? Is that true?? Why? One of them just won the cup as a captain and leading goal score and another just led the NHL playoffs in points...not that we should sign Kovalchuck...but...I don't understand why we have a reputation for not wanting Russian players?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jasoaks said:

Wait, the Ducks don't want Russian players? Is that true?? Why? One of them just won the cup as a captain and leading goal score and another just led the NHL playoffs in points...not that we should sign Kovalchuck...but...I don't understand why we have a reputation for not wanting Russian players?

It’s just not the Ducks although we may stay away more than most. I think that there is the risk that Russian players have a greater incentive and tendacy to go play and stay in the KHL. They can use that option as leverage on the team that drafts or signs them and not have to go through development and the AHL the way other players do. Like what Nisckushin did Dallas by leaving the team for two years because he didn’t like Lindy Ruff. Russian players can make more playing overseas than they can in the NHL, especially on ELC’s, while also being closer to home. A team may not want to use a high pick on a player that might do that and that they have less control and predictability over. 

If the next Ovechkin or Malkin is available or Svechnikov as the case year then it’s a much different situation. Ovechkin is the first Russian captain to win a Cup and one of the greatest scorers ever so he’s absolutely an exception, same with Malkin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

It’s just not the Ducks although we may stay away more than most. I think that there is the risk that Russian players have a greater incentive and tendacy to go play and stay in the KHL. They can use that option as leverage on the team that drafts or signs them and not have to go through development and the AHL the way other players do. Like what Nisckushin did Dallas by leaving the team for two years because he didn’t like Lindy Ruff. Russian players can make more playing overseas than they can in the NHL, especially on ELC’s, while also being closer to home. A team may not want to use a high pick on a player that might do that and that they have less control and predictability over. 

If the next Ovechkin or Malkin is available or Svechnikov as the case year then it’s a much different situation. Ovechkin is the first Russian captain to win a Cup and one of the greatest scorers ever so he’s absolutely an exception, same with Malkin.

Ahhh got it got it got it...I can see how that would be worth taking into account.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, nieder said:

Thank god.

I know...I do not want Kovalchuk wearing the Ducks D...Not worthy and not worth the time. Looking at Free Agency List. I am narrowing down the list of players our Ducks will take once they sign their RFA's.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/14/2018 at 5:02 PM, BombaysTripleDeke said:

It’s just not the Ducks although we may stay away more than most. I think that there is the risk that Russian players have a greater incentive and tendacy to go play and stay in the KHL. They can use that option as leverage on the team that drafts or signs them and not have to go through development and the AHL the way other players do. Like what Nisckushin did Dallas by leaving the team for two years because he didn’t like Lindy Ruff. Russian players can make more playing overseas than they can in the NHL, especially on ELC’s, while also being closer to home. A team may not want to use a high pick on a player that might do that and that they have less control and predictability over. 

If the next Ovechkin or Malkin is available or Svechnikov as the case year then it’s a much different situation. Ovechkin is the first Russian captain to win a Cup and one of the greatest scorers ever so he’s absolutely an exception, same with Malkin.

Those are extreme cases. Not every Russian thinks of bolting to play in the KHL.

Anaheim has been helmed by an old boys club, your Burke's and Murray's. Both guys who were institutionanilized to be skepetical of or harbor resement against Russians. Who was the last Russian the Ducks had, Artyukhin?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, poum said:

Those are extreme cases. Not every Russian thinks of bolting to play in the KHL.

Anaheim has been helmed by an old boys club, your Burke's and Murray's. Both guys who were institutionanilized to be skepetical of or harbor resement against Russians. Who was the last Russian the Ducks had, Artyukhin?

I'm not saying that every Russian thinks of doing that, just that their incentive and tendency to do so is greater. Kovalchuk, Radulov, Datsyuk all bolted while under contract to NHL teams. Guys like Kaprizov and Gusev were drafted but have decided to not to come over to and I mentioned Nichushkin from Dallas, but I think that a bigger reason is that Russian players seem to have a bit of a stereotype of having bad attitudes and being lazy, despite having high end talent. Yakupov being such a bust as a 1st overall pick recently may have reinforced that. If Murray has some blanket no-Russian policy then that is obviously stupid, but I don't think that he's actively passing up on getting impact players because they are Russian. I just think that he's more risk-averse than anything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only player in recent memory to give the Ducks the cold shoulder was Shultz. Not a Russian. Maybe Russians always have the KHL to fall back on if the going gets to tough for them in the NHL but good scouting should weed out the undesirable ones. Kovalchuck, pass on him. His past speaks for itself. Yakupov probably needed more time but Edmonton wanted him right now. Maybe Ovechkin being the Captain of the Stanley Cup champs will motivate more Russians to see the NHL as the place to be. I wouldn't pass on a talented Russian player to get a less talented player from wherever because it might be less risky.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, perry_mvp said:

The only player in recent memory to give the Ducks the cold shoulder was Shultz. Not a Russian. Maybe Russians always have the KHL to fall back on if the going gets to tough for them in the NHL but good scouting should weed out the undesirable ones. Kovalchuck, pass on him. His past speaks for itself. Yakupov probably needed more time but Edmonton wanted him right now. Maybe Ovechkin being the Captain of the Stanley Cup champs will motivate more Russians to see the NHL as the place to be. I wouldn't pass on a talented Russian player to get a less talented player from wherever because it might be less risky.

I agree, but I am looking at it from what Murray will do which is usually to make a safe, less risky move. To be fair, the Ducks haven't drafted a Russian player since Igor Bobkov in 2009 and Stanislav Chistov in 2001 prior to that. So, the Ducks really haven't had a chance to get burned lol. It's interesting because there is a very highly skilled, but risky Russian left-winger in this year's draft, Grigori Denisenko, that the Ducks could be able to get at 23rd overall. I don't think for one second that Murray will draft him and will go with a safer, two-way center, type of player with that pick.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

I agree, but I am looking at it from what Murray will do which is usually to make a safe, less risky move. To be fair, the Ducks haven't drafted a Russian player since Igor Bobkov in 2009 and Stanislav Chistov in 2001 prior to that. So, the Ducks really haven't had a chance to get burned lol. It's interesting because there is a very highly skilled, but risky Russian left-winger in this year's draft, Grigori Denisenko, that the Ducks could be able to get at 23rd overall. I don't think for one second that Murray will draft him and will go with a safer, two-way center, type of player with that pick.

I wonder when we're going to start talking about the draft around here, lol. I've seen Denisenko go higher in some mock drafts but since my only real source of information on the players in this years draft are clips from youtube, I can only go by what might be available at our positions. Granted BM doesn't make any moves, #23 will still be a great pick. Murray might go with the safe choice but that doesn't always turn into the best player. Honestly, I don't care where the player comes from as long as they have the talent and desire to play in the NHL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, perry_mvp said:

I wonder when we're going to start talking about the draft around here, lol. I've seen Denisenko go higher in some mock drafts but since my only real source of information on the players in this years draft are clips from youtube, I can only go by what might be available at our positions. Granted BM doesn't make any moves, #23 will still be a great pick. Murray might go with the safe choice but that doesn't always turn into the best player. Honestly, I don't care where the player comes from as long as they have the talent and desire to play in the NHL.

It would not surprise me IF BM stands pat...and keep the pick...Ducks Previous GMS majority of the time cept few have kept their picks.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, perry_mvp said:

The only player in recent memory to give the Ducks the cold shoulder was Shultz. Not a Russian. Maybe Russians always have the KHL to fall back on if the going gets to tough for them in the NHL but good scouting should weed out the undesirable ones. Kovalchuck, pass on him. His past speaks for itself. Yakupov probably needed more time but Edmonton wanted him right now. Maybe Ovechkin being the Captain of the Stanley Cup champs will motivate more Russians to see the NHL as the place to be. I wouldn't pass on a talented Russian player to get a less talented player from wherever because it might be less risky.

You can't throw risk out of the equation, though.  That's inherent in the value of any draft pick.  Do you go with the safe, low-ceiling player?  Or the potential star who has a higher chance of failure?  Or someone in between those extremes?  Russian players have a bit higher element of risk because of the Russian league.  So for a guy like Murray, who is clearly risk averse, the Russian player might drop in value due to that risk.  Sure, he could be great.  Or he could stay in Russia and be great there and the Ducks wasted a draft pick.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/13/2018 at 7:39 PM, FanSince1993 said:

Oh, well...According to this article, Ducks are not interested in Ilya Kovalchuk.

https://lenta.ru/news/2018/06/13/kovalchuk/

The Russian player thing goes back to Brian Burke.  “One Federov is enough.”  speaking of Sergei and Fedor.  Bob Murray must share the same view, because you don’t see Russian Ducks or prospects.  

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Brian+Burke+quotes/7796523/story.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, gorbachav5 said:

You can't throw risk out of the equation, though.  That's inherent in the value of any draft pick.  Do you go with the safe, low-ceiling player?  Or the potential star who has a higher chance of failure?  Or someone in between those extremes?  Russian players have a bit higher element of risk because of the Russian league.  So for a guy like Murray, who is clearly risk averse, the Russian player might drop in value due to that risk.  Sure, he could be great.  Or he could stay in Russia and be great there and the Ducks wasted a draft pick.

I'm just trying to say that a few players shouldn't represent a whole country. The draft is about risk. The Ducks were fortunate in 2010 that Cam dropped otherwise the first pick would have been Etem. A potential star that turned into a big failure. Kase dropped to the 7th round and he's turning out great. I'm not oblivious to the risk that Russians have the KHL to fall back on but I would think that in the interview process a team would get the feeling of where that players state of mind is. If Murray thinks that drafting a Russian is too risky then that's his prerogative as GM. As a fan, I've had that distrust of Russian players as well but at some point, you have to look at the good ones in the league and say that maybe the next one is in the draft and we would be crazy not draft that player.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, perry_mvp said:

I'm just trying to say that a few players shouldn't represent a whole country. The draft is about risk. The Ducks were fortunate in 2010 that Cam dropped otherwise the first pick would have been Etem. A potential star that turned into a big failure. Kase dropped to the 7th round and he's turning out great. I'm not oblivious to the risk that Russians have the KHL to fall back on but I would think that in the interview process a team would get the feeling of where that players state of mind is. If Murray thinks that drafting a Russian is too risky then that's his prerogative as GM. As a fan, I've had that distrust of Russian players as well but at some point, you have to look at the good ones in the league and say that maybe the next one is in the draft and we would be crazy not draft that player.

Two issues that I’ve wondered about with the Ducks’ lack of Russians:

1. Is it possible that Russian players simply don’t want to play on the West coast? Outside of Bryz, Nabokov, and that wife beater in LA, I can’t really think of a consequential Russian player who played on the Left Coast in the last 15 years. I don’t know the reason for it, but I doubt it’s coincidence. So could it be that we don’t pursue them because we already know they don’t want to be here?

2. Is it also possible that the lack of Russian draft picks has to do with the Ducks being a team of limited resources? Russia is a damn big country, and has a lot of security and travel issues, and it may just be that our team has to be more judicious in how resources are allocated to scouting than the big budget Eastern teams have to be. On the other hand, we can scout all of Scandinavia in a week, so it makes sense for a budget team like ours to pour its finite resources into that region rather than a country that spans 13 time zones. IMO, it may not be entirely about the Russian players themselves, but more about the circumstances of scouting and our budget.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/16/2018 at 8:50 AM, poum said:

Those are extreme cases. Not every Russian thinks of bolting to play in the KHL.

Anaheim has been helmed by an old boys club, your Burke's and Murray's. Both guys who were institutionanilized to be skepetical of or harbor resement against Russians. Who was the last Russian the Ducks had, Artyukhin?

I disagree with the bolded. You are right in in that not every Russian thinks of bolting, but there has been several instances in recent years where Russians have bolted due to disagreement with coaches, money disputes, or just wanting to play home. The last of those 3 applies to Kovie, and you can't fault him for that, but it is a stigma that is well deserved in my opinion.

Just right off the top of my head, names that come to mind are:

-Nikita Tryamkin (Big Russian Dmen for Vancouver who left because Willie D didn't play him much)

-Val Nichuskin (hated Lindy Ruff)

-Mikhail Grigorenko (Did not want to play for Colorado and they owned his rights..jokes on him this year though)

-Vadim Shipachyov (attitude problem upon arrival)

-Anton Slepyshev (most recent example. Got a better offer and more money from CSKA than the Oilers)

The KHL factor is not only a risk, but could also be used as leverage at times when it comes to contract negotiations. When Nikita Zadorov and the Avalanche were having a contract standoff last summer, he threatened to sign with CSKA if a deal was not completed in a time frame. I'm not anti-Russian by any means, and I think the Ducks really dropped the ball by not even giving Panarin a look and just letting him waltz into Chicago, but I understand the sentiment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

Two issues that I’ve wondered about with the Ducks’ lack of Russians:

1. Is it possible that Russian players simply don’t want to play on the West coast? Outside of Bryz, Nabokov, and that wife beater in LA, I can’t really think of a consequential Russian player who played on the Left Coast in the last 15 years. I don’t know the reason for it, but I doubt it’s coincidence. So could it be that we don’t pursue them because we already know they don’t want to be here?

2. Is it also possible that the lack of Russian draft picks has to do with the Ducks being a team of limited resources? Russia is a damn big country, and has a lot of security and travel issues, and it may just be that our team has to be more judicious in how resources are allocated to scouting than the big budget Eastern teams have to be. On the other hand, we can scout all of Scandinavia in a week, so it makes sense for a budget team like ours to pour its finite resources into that region rather than a country that spans 13 time zones. IMO, it may not be entirely about the Russian players themselves, but more about the circumstances of scouting and our budget.

That could be. It just seems odd that the Ducks wouldn’t put little of any resources to scout in a country with considerable hockey talent. Maybe Murray just really likes North Americans....and Swedes. You’re right about the lack of Russians that have played in California in general though. That is weird.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

That could be. It just seems odd that the Ducks wouldn’t put little of any resources to scout in a country with considerable hockey talent. Maybe Murray just really likes North Americans....and Swedes. You’re right about the lack of Russians that have played in California in general though. That is weird.

Well if you look at the History of the Ducks in NHL Draft...They have not drafted a Russian in first Round since 2001. Besides I have much prefer for the Ducks to Draft,Americans,Canadians along with Finns and some Swedes.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DUCKSDOC said:

Barry Trotz has become available as a free agent - ANYONE interested ???? BM ??

Surely you jest.  If Carlyle was going anywhere, he would be gone by now.  The draft is a few days away.

There's no way the Ducks would pay whatever Trotz is asking.  I don't even know what he's asking, I just know there's no way the Ducks would be in the same state let alone the same ballpark.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, HockeyIzCool said:

Surely you jest.  If Carlyle was going anywhere, he would be gone by now.  The draft is a few days away.

There's no way the Ducks would pay whatever Trotz is asking.  I don't even know what he's asking, I just know there's no way the Ducks would be in the same state let alone the same ballpark.

Besides Ducks have a Coach waiting in the Wings.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, HockeyIzCool said:

Surely you jest.  If Carlyle was going anywhere, he would be gone by now.  The draft is a few days away.

There's no way the Ducks would pay whatever Trotz is asking.  I don't even know what he's asking, I just know there's no way the Ducks would be in the same state let alone the same ballpark.

 

I forgot where I read that in Trotz's contract he had options for two more years at $1.8M per year. Babcock and Quinnville inflated the market when they got over $6M per year so Trotz was probably looking north of $3M and neither side could agree. I don't know Carlyle's salary but I can bet its nowhere near $3M.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...