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2018 Stanley Cup Final

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1 hour ago, hoxxey said:

This series is over.

Yup, Vegas skaters away from the puck are double clutching when there's a 50/50 puck. Up until now they were always assuming their teammate would get the 50/50 puck. Series may go to six, but it's the Capitals series. Vegas lost their mojo... and then their minds.

Edited by Thom-74

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7 hours ago, PetrSykora said:

Maybe I'm just a hater but I've never been so unconvinced by a championship team in any sport as I've been by Washington. I know they're whooping Vegas right now but they likely wouldn't have even made it out of the first round if they played out west.

I hate to make this comparison, but it's like how the Kings came in and won their Cup as an 8 seed, they gelled at the right time and wouldn't be denied...

... and Caps are whooping a Vegas team that cruised through said West with a 12-3 record.

Biggest difference is in Fleury's numbers, he's allowing 4 goals per game so far in the Finals as compared to his god mode leading up to it. It's not on him tho, bounces are now going post and out instead of in and MAF is more often left out to dry.

All in all, it is the first time for Vegas to face a team with a matching/bigger WILL to fight and win than theirs.

Edited by DucksProg

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4 hours ago, DucksProg said:

I hate to make this comparison, but it's like how the Kings came in and won their Cup as an 8 seed, they gelled at the right time and wouldn't be denied...

... and Caps are whooping a Vegas team that cruised through said West with a 12-3 record.

Biggest difference is in Fleury's numbers, he's allowing 4 goals per game so far in the Finals as compared to his god mode leading up to it. It's not on him tho, bounces are now going post and out instead of in and MAF is more often left out to dry.

All in all, it is the first time for Vegas to face a team with a matching/bigger WILL to fight and win than theirs.

Yes. I agree with all of this.

And to add in to the bottom...I don't think Vegas knows how to deal with that. If they faced it in the any of the previous rounds and then found a way to get out of it would be one thing...but they didn't. How to deal with adversity is a big skill to have to make it in the playoffs. Down 0-2 in the first round, down 0-1 in the 2nd round, down 2-3 in the third round, down 0-1 in the finals...Caps have had it in every series. And they have found a way to make it out.

Now this series isn't over. I don't care about the 32-1 record for teams leading 3-1 in a playoff series...there's also only been ONE other expansion team to even make the finals. Vegas, ironically, doesn't care about the odds or probability. So, it's definitely not over.

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Caps puttin a cap in the Knights!

Vegas has never had to deal with adversity. They have been used to just pushin forward on the same energy they have had throughout the season (most likely the whole chip on their shoulder mentality) but In the POs it’s the first time they have had to deal with being behind. I think they are a great time when they are gleefully playing along and having fun but once reality starts to sink in and they begin to play the psychological aspect the mind games start and they don’t like that part as the smiles melt away and they begin questioning themselves. 

IF the Caps win then this just justifies them as a better all round team that can roll with whatever and have the mental toughness to endure no matter if they are up or trailing. 

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One more game we have to suffer through and then it's over with and we can move on to October and the old guys, spending time passing backwards, camping behind the net and spending lots of time in the penalty box...  Fun. (not)

I do agree about Vegas never having experienced adversity.  How many posts have they hit?  Too many. "Wild Bill" hasn't come close to scoring a goal. 

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31 minutes ago, hoxxey said:

One more game we have to suffer through and then it's over with and we can move on to October and the old guys, spending time passing backwards, camping behind the net and spending lots of time in the penalty box...  Fun. (not)

I do agree about Vegas never having experienced adversity.  How many posts have they hit?  Too many. "Wild Bill" hasn't come close to scoring a goal. 

Sure they are hitting posts...but it's one thing to hit a post from a really good shot...and another to have an empty net and hit the post. And I am also one to think Karlsson will be taking a step back next season, but I do think Marchessault will take another step forward. And with that, and using their picks/some trade bait/cap room...I could see them becoming a much stronger team next season.

It is kinda crazy that within the first like....5 minutes of that game there were 3 posts hit total in the game.

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9 hours ago, DucksProg said:

I hate to make this comparison, but it's like how the Kings came in and won their Cup as an 8 seed, they gelled at the right time and wouldn't be denied...

... and Caps are whooping a Vegas team that cruised through said West with a 12-3 record.

Biggest difference is in Fleury's numbers, he's allowing 4 goals per game so far in the Finals as compared to his god mode leading up to it. It's not on him tho, bounces are now going post and out instead of in and MAF is more often left out to dry.

All in all, it is the first time for Vegas to face a team with a matching/bigger WILL to fight and win than theirs.

I think that comparison works in different ways for both teams outside of the fact that only one can end up winning. Those Kings went through an injured and mentally fragile Canucks, wiped out the Blues by injuring their best player a shift into game 1, and took on two extremely thin cinderella teams in the Coyotes and Devils. Yeah they were an 8th seed, but that was only cause they underperformed for the majority of the season and were written off by April. They were still favorites that previous October though. I realize it might sound pretty dumb to say an 8th seed had an easy path to the Cup. I'm still struggling to think of a team that had an easier journey though (to give the Kings some credit, their 2014 run certainly had one of the most difficult paths).

The comparison works for Vegas cause nobody really gave them much of a chance to do anything in spring and they responded by making short work of everyone. The main thing this Washington team has in common with the 2012 Kings (besides a headhunting goon inexplicably playing on their top line and a bench full of douchebags who taunt concussed players) is how they keep scoring easy matchups that aren't really testing them. Columbus is always a disappointment, Pittsburgh looked extremely lethargic and ready to quit after the last 2 seasons, and Tampa went full Ducks and beat themselves by spotting them 2 games before finally deciding to show up. Meanwhile Vegas is finally looking like the team they should've been from the start and as unfair as it might be to pin it on one guy, it's largely cause Fleury's SV% is back where it usually has been in the playoffs. I seriously have a hard time believing Winnipeg, Nashville or San Jose would look this bad going up against Washington.

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Magentos are falling back to Earth...Humble Pie will be there Diet this week.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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Jobbed a little by the refs and by the posts, but Wash has their number right now.

They've clearly seen something in the Vegas defense that they can take advantage of, and they're doing it often and to great effect.  I haven't caught what it is yet.

Vegas really looked like they had a chance in the first 10 minutes or so... Holtby got really big all of a sudden (someone should check his pads and stick dimensions).  Wash is clearly crossing the line wherever they can, and they're getting away with it so far.  Vegas' response so far is the Ducks general response - pout, commit roughing penalties, skate slower, get scored on.

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40 minutes ago, Fisix said:

Jobbed a little by the refs and by the posts, but Wash has their number right now.

They've clearly seen something in the Vegas defense that they can take advantage of, and they're doing it often and to great effect.  I haven't caught what it is yet.

Vegas really looked like they had a chance in the first 10 minutes or so... Holtby got really big all of a sudden (someone should check his pads and stick dimensions).  Wash is clearly crossing the line wherever they can, and they're getting away with it so far.  Vegas' response so far is the Ducks general response - pout, commit roughing penalties, skate slower, get scored on.

Vegas is getting away with just as much.  The diving and embellishment by Vegas is beyond ridiculous.  Thankfully the refs aren't buying into it.

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2 hours ago, PetrSykora said:

I think that comparison works in different ways for both teams outside of the fact that only one can end up winning. Those Kings went through an injured and mentally fragile Canucks, wiped out the Blues by injuring their best player a shift into game 1, and took on two extremely thin cinderella teams in the Coyotes and Devils. Yeah they were an 8th seed, but that was only cause they underperformed for the majority of the season and were written off by April. They were still favorites that previous October though. I realize it might sound pretty dumb to say an 8th seed had an easy path to the Cup. I'm still struggling to think of a team that had an easier journey though (to give the Kings some credit, their 2014 run certainly had one of the most difficult paths).

The comparison works for Vegas cause nobody really gave them much of a chance to do anything in spring and they responded by making short work of everyone. The main thing this Washington team has in common with the 2012 Kings (besides a headhunting goon inexplicably playing on their top line and a bench full of douchebags who taunt concussed players) is how they keep scoring easy matchups that aren't really testing them. Columbus is always a disappointment, Pittsburgh looked extremely lethargic and ready to quit after the last 2 seasons, and Tampa went full Ducks and beat themselves by spotting them 2 games before finally deciding to show up. Meanwhile Vegas is finally looking like the team they should've been from the start and as unfair as it might be to pin it on one guy, it's largely cause Fleury's SV% is back where it usually has been in the playoffs. I seriously have a hard time believing Winnipeg, Nashville or San Jose would look this bad going up against Washington.

That 2014 run was insane.

And yes, Fluery is back to where he normally is. If it wasn't for Murray last 2 seasons, the Pens don't win either cup. (and for one of those, I also mean Bob Murray... :P )

I agree with your last sentence, too. But, I mean, how come two of those had a tough time against the Knights? Was it 'cause of Fleury?? I could definitely see that. But I feel like the Ducks are very similar to the Caps...can hit pretty hard, have a good enough goalie to stay in games and make the occasional great save, have an all-star captain that can dominate the game, and enough capable ensemble players with the occasional very good player mixed in. I'm really starting to wonder if we WOULD have matched up really with the Knights. I know, I know...most everyone here will probably say no. We didn't even win a game against the Sharks. And yes. But, if it really does matter what team you play against...a different first round match up could have really changed our fates.

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Is one of the Vegas d-men injured or showing severely reduced ice time?

What I DO see is Wash regularly getting an shot off by someone whose coverage has been completely blown.  Is Wash setting up really good but subtle pick plays and the refs are missing the interference?

That "back check" that was really a Wash player head butting a chasing coverage man to take him out of the play is one example of what I've seen.  Looks penalty worthy, not called.

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23 hours ago, hoxxey said:

6-2 coming right up

Caps want it and they know now they are in the Drivers seat.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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11 hours ago, Fisix said:

Jobbed a little by the refs and by the posts, but Wash has their number right now.

They've clearly seen something in the Vegas defense that they can take advantage of, and they're doing it often and to great effect.  I haven't caught what it is yet.

Vegas really looked like they had a chance in the first 10 minutes or so... Holtby got really big all of a sudden (someone should check his pads and stick dimensions).  Wash is clearly crossing the line wherever they can, and they're getting away with it so far.  Vegas' response so far is the Ducks general response - pout, commit roughing penalties, skate slower, get scored on.

Well the Caps got jobbed in game one when Reese threw a crosscheck that the refs missed and then scored the tying goal later in the sequence. It's possible that had Reese not scored that goal that the VGK would not have won that game and the series would be over with a 4-0 sweep by the Caps. I'll say it seems to me the refs are so afraid of affecting the outcome that they are letting things go that should be called on both sides.

The only thing that kept Vegas in game three was Fluery. The guy was doing everything he could to steal that game. In game four Neal choked on that open net shot and I think it cost his team the game. Up to that point they had all of the momentum. I think if the Caps go on to win the Cup ,  that missed shot will be remembered as the point where the VGK lost the series.

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6 hours ago, Shadowduck said:

Well the Caps got jobbed in game one when Reese threw a crosscheck that the refs missed and then scored the tying goal later in the sequence. It's possible that had Reese not scored that goal that the VGK would not have won that game and the series would be over with a 4-0 sweep by the Caps. I'll say it seems to me the refs are so afraid of affecting the outcome that they are letting things go that should be called on both sides.

The only thing that kept Vegas in game three was Fluery. The guy was doing everything he could to steal that game. In game four Neal choked on that open net shot and I think it cost his team the game. Up to that point they had all of the momentum. I think if the Caps go on to win the Cup ,  that missed shot will be remembered as the point where the VGK lost the series.

I agree with this, too! But I would go to the game-winning goal really...that was from DSP losing a skate blade or something...he couldn't skate the way he needed to...and then they scored the game-winning goal late in the 3rd. Honestly, that first game was the Caps to win. And it just came down to whoever scored last...and if DSP doesn't lose some equipment, I think the Caps win that game...besides the game-tying goal.

And as far as Neal missing that open shot. I mean, it would have been huge and given the Knights some momentum...but...it was EARLY in the game. And it's one goal. The Caps allowed the first goal in Game 1 and Game 2 and were able to come back and take leads. I feel very confident even if Neal scored that goal, the Caps would have won.

If the Caps do win the cup...I'd go back to that Game 2 Holtby save. Big goals/saves that happen at the end of games truly make an impact on the game and series 'cause there is significantly less time to recover. If the Knights score that goal and get momentum going into OT...I think it's likely they would have won it in OT. The series could very well just be tied right now. Or the Caps would have still won, who knows.

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On 6/4/2018 at 0:02 PM, perry_mvp said:

They were allowed to do it in a short period of time? Well....they are an expansion team so of course they were allowed to put a team together and they had less than a month to do it.

Previous expansion teams did NOT get to pick a full roster of mid level NHL players.  It has never happened.

Previous expansion teams have had to start with low level players plus wait years for their entry draft to pan out.

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On 6/5/2018 at 6:02 PM, Jasoaks said:

That 2014 run was insane.

And yes, Fluery is back to where he normally is. If it wasn't for Murray last 2 seasons, the Pens don't win either cup. (and for one of those, I also mean Bob Murray... :P )

I agree with your last sentence, too. But, I mean, how come two of those had a tough time against the Knights? Was it 'cause of Fleury?? I could definitely see that. But I feel like the Ducks are very similar to the Caps...can hit pretty hard, have a good enough goalie to stay in games and make the occasional great save, have an all-star captain that can dominate the game, and enough capable ensemble players with the occasional very good player mixed in. I'm really starting to wonder if we WOULD have matched up really with the Knights. I know, I know...most everyone here will probably say no. We didn't even win a game against the Sharks. And yes. But, if it really does matter what team you play against...a different first round match up could have really changed our fates.

It's an odd turn around for Vegas for sure. Outside of Fleury's struggles and their shooting going ice cold, the best thing I can think of is the systematic differences between the teams they faced in the west compared to Washington. Los Angeles, San Jose, and Winnipeg all play very similar rigid and predictable inside-out styles of hockey where they send 2/3 forwards deep to hound the puck in the offensive zone and aim to generate chances through elite shooters at the point. Vegas would usually lose the physical battle behind the net or in the corners, but they aggressively pressure the puck as it makes its way back out and attack with speed to force bad decisions/turnovers, which leads to quick transition offence. They also play the neutral zone with a similar intensity, an area of the ice where big physical western teams tend to slow down the game and regroup for an entry. Washington is a different animal though. Winnipeg was a faster team but it's not so much about having speed as much as it is how you utilize it. The Capitals are a lot closer to the Knights in that they like to allow the opponent certain areas of the ice where they can then force them into bad decisions and initiate the counterattack. They also like to dictate the neutral zone but the disparity in talent down the middle means the Capitals are more successful transforming that into quality chances on the rush, and establishing their free-wheeling offence in the zone as opposed to the typical overload formation Vegas has had to deal with through 3 rounds.

I think the Ducks at their best would have a shot at either of these teams. It was frustrating them skate with cement boots all season long but we've seen a player like Getzlaf strive against overly aggressive and fast skating teams. He's capable of suckering 2 or sometimes even more players out of position with big body and puck protection skills, and he's such a good playmaker that his teammates can exploit that space he creates. Our defence ideally should be mobile enough to keep up with the counterattack too. It's how they beat the Oilers last season. The team that showed up to San Jose would get absolutely smoked though lol. It's one thing to get forced into a turnover by a team that systematically feasts on errors. It's another thing to spring 4th line benders on endless breakaways because of lazy and uninspired play. 

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I interrupt this thread to say Silfverberg lives in my street and I just met him. Done with life. Thanks bye. :D

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44 minutes ago, Myuyum said:

I interrupt this thread to say Silfverberg lives in my street and I just met him. Done with life. Thanks bye. :D

That’s pretty cool. I met a Duck (former) today as well; I happened to run into Vitaly Visnevski, which was surprising to me considering it’s been a long time since he’s played with the Ducks. He still lives in the area part time (he played in the KHL last season). He was a nice guy, as most hockey players seem to be.

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2 hours ago, PetrSykora said:

It's an odd turn around for Vegas for sure. Outside of Fleury's struggles and their shooting going ice cold, the best thing I can think of is the systematic differences between the teams they faced in the west compared to Washington. Los Angeles, San Jose, and Winnipeg all play very similar rigid and predictable inside-out styles of hockey where they send 2/3 forwards deep to hound the puck in the offensive zone and aim to generate chances through elite shooters at the point. Vegas would usually lose the physical battle behind the net or in the corners, but they aggressively pressure the puck as it makes its way back out and attack with speed to force bad decisions/turnovers, which leads to quick transition offence. They also play the neutral zone with a similar intensity, an area of the ice where big physical western teams tend to slow down the game and regroup for an entry. Washington is a different animal though. Winnipeg was a faster team but it's not so much about having speed as much as it is how you utilize it. The Capitals are a lot closer to the Knights in that they like to allow the opponent certain areas of the ice where they can then force them into bad decisions and initiate the counterattack. They also like to dictate the neutral zone but the disparity in talent down the middle means the Capitals are more successful transforming that into quality chances on the rush, and establishing their free-wheeling offence in the zone as opposed to the typical overload formation Vegas has had to deal with through 3 rounds.

I think the Ducks at their best would have a shot at either of these teams. It was frustrating them skate with cement boots all season long but we've seen a player like Getzlaf strive against overly aggressive and fast skating teams. He's capable of suckering 2 or sometimes even more players out of position with big body and puck protection skills, and he's such a good playmaker that his teammates can exploit that space he creates. Our defence ideally should be mobile enough to keep up with the counterattack too. It's how they beat the Oilers last season. The team that showed up to San Jose would get absolutely smoked though lol. It's one thing to get forced into a turnover by a team that systematically feasts on errors. It's another thing to spring 4th line benders on endless breakaways because of lazy and uninspired play. 

Wow, I think that's a great analysis of why the Caps are having success over the Knights! Is the solution for the Knights to try and change their game plan? or just...try harder? lol

And yeah, that Sharks serious just....blew my mind. I don't take back my prediction that the sharks would be our best 1st round opponent...but man...yeah, that Ducks team against either team in the finals would be probably have to invoke the mercy rule lol

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1 hour ago, Myuyum said:

I interrupt this thread to say Silfverberg lives in my street and I just met him. Done with life. Thanks bye. :D

 

36 minutes ago, Spencer_12 said:

That’s pretty cool. I met a Duck (former) today as well; I happened to run into Vitaly Visnevski, which was surprising to me considering it’s been a long time since he’s played with the Ducks. He still lives in the area part time (he played in the KHL last season). He was a nice guy, as most hockey players seem to be.

What?! How do I get in on this?! :P What a day to be meeting old/current ducks...even if they weren't on the cup team!

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https://www.tsn.ca/smith-pelly-to-skip-white-house-visit-if-caps-win-cup-1.1105398

DSP again proves what an immature, all about me, self absorbed moron that he really is.  You haven’t won anything yet Devante!  

4th line Role player missing???  More Devo fame....

As Aaron Burr told Alexander Hamilton in the Broadway theater production HAMILTON, “Devo you need to smile more and talk less.”

 

Edited by Fowl
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Good for DSP. My guess is a reporter asked him since the Caps are 1 game away and considering what happened with the Eagles/Cavs/Warriors this week, and he gave an honest answer. 

Edited by Spencer_12
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Reporter was using DSP to prop themselves up. DSP fell for it. Can't blame DSP for falling for the bait, a lot of sports 'journalists' make their names riding on the shoulders of athletes... because nobody would give them a second thought otherwise.

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On 6/4/2018 at 6:48 PM, PetrSykora said:

Maybe I'm just a hater but I've never been so unconvinced by a championship team in any sport as I've been by Washington. I know they're whooping Vegas right now but they likely wouldn't have even made it out of the first round if they played out west.

2012. I think their are four fan bases that remember that championship. The winners and losers. Plus the Sharks and Ducks because how annoyed we were with the outcome. What a terrible series.

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