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5 hours ago, Fisix said:

i mean... do we want a guy like that?  if he doesn't want to play, just after a trade?  wouldn't we be trading a bunch of good stuff for a risk that he'd be crap here until we traded him again?  no thanks.

he's the one getting paid, and so he's also the one who has to put more effort into making the team and coach happy... certainly more than 4 games.

this is getting silly.  i know Torts has a rep, but either Torts is ridiculous in the locker room (we'd hear more from other players if that was the case, i think), or these players are entitled Dehydrated Donkey Dungs who aren't going to be happy until they're traded to Boston or Wash or whichever frontrunner team.  if that's the new norm, i'm not sure why half the teams would stay in the league.  the Ducks would be done, maybe all the CA teams would be done, unless there was a sports team tax break of some kind (which would pretty weaksauce).  

A Laine who would put in the effort would make this team so much better. Especially when Zegras makes the jump and adapts well. We would have 2 great set up guys and a genuine scorer. If Comtois can keep scoring we'd finally see some more goals. It might even take the pressure of Rakell. 

I want a Laine but it has to be the good version. 

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7 hours ago, Fisix said:

i mean... do we want a guy like that?  if he doesn't want to play, just after a trade?  wouldn't we be trading a bunch of good stuff for a risk that he'd be crap here until we traded him again?  no thanks.

he's the one getting paid, and so he's also the one who has to put more effort into making the team and coach happy... certainly more than 4 games.

this is getting silly.  i know Torts has a rep, but either Torts is ridiculous in the locker room (we'd hear more from other players if that was the case, i think), or these players are entitled Dehydrated Donkey Dungs who aren't going to be happy until they're traded to Boston or Wash or whichever frontrunner team.  if that's the new norm, i'm not sure why half the teams would stay in the league.  the Ducks would be done, maybe all the CA teams would be done, unless there was a sports team tax break of some kind (which would pretty weaksauce).  

If you’re an elite scorer who doesn’t play a complete 200-ft game, Torts is going to bench you eventually. I’m not sure you can make any specific value judgments about Laine here. Torts would have benched Perry or Patrick Kane during their primes. Selanne would have retired at 33 if he played for Torts. That’s not to say he’s a bad coach. He’s a great coach. But he requires a certain type of player, and that type is not Laine. Pretty much everyone knew this before the trade, except for Jarmo Kekalainen apparently.

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12 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

LOL. Laine benched tonight with 6 1/2 minutes left in the 2nd period. Zero shifts in the 3rd.

So I’m thinking our 1st + Rico + Lundestrom gets it done. Welcome to Anaheim, Patrik!

:lol:

That shift where Carolina scored the tying goal, Laine could not have been less interested in defense.  I know his job is to mark the right point, but 1) he wasn't doing that since he was staring at the puck - his man could have moved right to the edge of the crease and he would have had no idea; and 2) he watched a player and the puck move into his area, unchecked, and just stood there and watched.  I don't blame Tortorella at all for benching him.  It's that kind of shift, too, that supports my wariness about acquiring him.  How good can a one-dimensional player truly be?  Yes, he's amazing at the one dimension.  But everything else is below average or worse - skating, passing, forechecking.  He might be the worst defensive player in the league.  Of course you'll take him because he's a 40-goal scorer and he'll still give you positive value because that goal-scoring skill is off the charts.  And the Ducks could really use some scoring skill.  But man, I don't look forward to watching the "controller disconnected" defense.

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3 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

If you’re an elite scorer who doesn’t play a complete 200-ft game, Torts is going to bench you eventually. I’m not sure you can make any specific value judgments about Laine here. Torts would have benched Perry or Patrick Kane during their primes. Selanne would have retired at 33 if he played for Torts. That’s not to say he’s a bad coach. He’s a great coach. But he requires a certain type of player, and that type is not Laine. Pretty much everyone knew this before the trade, except for Jarmo Kekalainen apparently.

Yeah, I mean...even right after the trade...it seemed everyone was like "ok, well, how long till Laine is traded?" at this point CBJ might as well trade him...he's probably gonna be waiting for an offer sheet this off-season...although...what's the compensation for an offer-sheet again?? Might be worth it!

I don't know if I'd put Laine in the same realm as Kane and Perry and Selanne. I feel there is more to their game than Laine's even if they aren't "the best" at back checking. I can't pinpoint what it is...maybe effort? or attitude? or passion? Or just better team players? Better for the locker room? But Laine seems exclusively one-dimensional... like, doesn't even want to pass or enter the zone with the puck...just wants to stand and shoot.

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11 hours ago, Fisix said:

if that's the new norm

i really hope it's not...and it's nice to see players like Matthews and McDavid stick with their pretty bad teams lol...although also pretty sad. MUCH better players than Laine...but...on worse teams.... Ironically, Laine has gotten closer to the finals than either of them. Also, I'm wondering if Dubois just doesn't re-sign with Winnipeg and signs with Montreal when his contract is up. I think it was said that he preferred Montreal.

But that kind sucks for Winnipeg 😕 

Edited by Jasoaks

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4 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

If you’re an elite scorer who doesn’t play a complete 200-ft game, Torts is going to bench you eventually. I’m not sure you can make any specific value judgments about Laine here. Torts would have benched Perry or Patrick Kane during their primes. Selanne would have retired at 33 if he played for Torts. That’s not to say he’s a bad coach. He’s a great coach. But he requires a certain type of player, and that type is not Laine. Pretty much everyone knew this before the trade, except for Jarmo Kekalainen apparently.

I don't know, I wouldn't ever say Selanne was good defensively but I always thought he put the effort in, it just wasn't his forte. Same with Kane. Perry would sometimes drift around getting back.

Laine seems like he doesn't even try.

A lot of players really don't seem to like Columbus. This was happening before Torts too, remember guys like Carter requesting a trade after being there for half a season.

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1 hour ago, nieder said:

I don't know, I wouldn't ever say Selanne was good defensively but I always thought he put the effort in, it just wasn't his forte. Same with Kane. Perry would sometimes drift around getting back.

Laine seems like he doesn't even try.

A lot of players really don't seem to like Columbus. This was happening before Torts too, remember guys like Carter requesting a trade after being there for half a season.

Everything you guys said is 100% accurate, but I never said Selanne, Perry and Kane were as bad at defense as Laine. I just said Torts would have benched them at some point. All three guys rarely defended below the tops of the circles in their own zone and they would frequently fly the zone early looking for a breakout pass. I guarantee Torts would have given them a seat on the bench for that. He doesn’t seem to care who you are or how many goals you can score, if you don’t play the game his way you’re not going to play. Which is why nearly everyone could see from a mile away that Laine was going to end up in his doghouse eventually since Laine, who probably doesn’t even know the name of his own goaltender, just isn’t a Torts type of player.

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7 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

Everything you guys said is 100% accurate, but I never said Selanne, Perry and Kane were as bad at defense as Laine. I just said Torts would have benched them at some point. All three guys rarely defended below the tops of the circles in their own zone and they would frequently fly the zone early looking for a breakout pass. I guarantee Torts would have given them a seat on the bench for that. He doesn’t seem to care who you are or how many goals you can score, if you don’t play the game his way you’re not going to play. Which is why nearly everyone could see from a mile away that Laine was going to end up in his doghouse eventually since Laine, who probably doesn’t even know the name of his own goaltender, just isn’t a Torts type of player.

That was part of what Selanne hated about BB, right? In clutch moments he was benched?

Yeah, I see what you're saying. Fascinating to see just how many people don't want to be in CBJ.... Dubois, Laine (probably), Carter, Bobrovsky, Duchene, Panarin...Koivu just reitred. ...Nash stayed for a while. Is it the owners???

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16 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

LOL. Laine benched tonight with 6 1/2 minutes left in the 2nd period. Zero shifts in the 3rd.

So I’m thinking our 1st + Rico + Lundestrom gets it done. Welcome to Anaheim, Patrik!

:lol:

Torts’ contract is up after this season and Jarmo may let him walk rather than potentially lose another star player. I’m also not going to down play the Finnish connection between him and Laine. While it’s funny that people had placed over/unders on when Laine would benched, he ain’t going anywhere lol. While Torts is good a coach and he’s not the only reason, the Blue Jackets need to figure out why they can’t keep or entice players to stay in Ohio. 

 

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26 minutes ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

Torts’ contract is up after this season and Jarmo may let him walk rather than potentially lose another star player. I’m also not going to down play the Finnish connection between him and Laine. While it’s funny that people had placed over/unders on when Laine would benched, he ain’t going anywhere lol. While Torts is good a coach and he’s not the only reason, the Blue Jackets need to figure out why they can’t keep or entice players to stay in Ohio. 

 

It actually is kind of a weird phenomenon right? Like...it can't be for record or playoff success....literally Bobrovsky chose FLORIDA over CBJ lol it doesn't seem to be coach...I mean, are their taxes crazy?? I could see that to be at least a draw to Florida. Is there some sort of reputation with being on that team?

Can't be the fans...again...see Bob going to FLORIDA lol....

I could think owners...or...I dunno.

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Roslovic has 7 points in 7 games for Columbus. If he managed to break out into a 2nd line C scoring around 50-60 points a season, and Laine remained a 40 goal/year player, then that’s a win for Columbus even if Dubois puts up 90-100 points a year.

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2 hours ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

Torts’ contract is up after this season and Jarmo may let him walk rather than potentially lose another star player. I’m also not going to down play the Finnish connection between him and Laine. While it’s funny that people had placed over/unders on when Laine would benched, he ain’t going anywhere lol. While Torts is good a coach and he’s not the only reason, the Blue Jackets need to figure out why they can’t keep or entice players to stay in Ohio. 

 

Wow I didn't realise that Torts is in the final year of his deal. It's pretty unusual for that to happen with coaches and GMs. Maybe you're right, the plan is to let him walk.

Let's go, Anaheim Tortorellas

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47 minutes ago, nieder said:

Wow I didn't realise that Torts is in the final year of his deal. It's pretty unusual for that to happen with coaches and GMs. Maybe you're right, the plan is to let him walk.

Let's go, Anaheim Tortorellas

Oddly enough, with no real offensive superstars, a solid blue line, and a world class goaltender, Torts would be a pretty good fit in Anaheim. I don't think he plays the kind of hockey Bob wants though, and I also don't get the sense he's the type of coach that would mesh well with the GM either. Plus, it would probably be weird for Torts to give pressers with a media scrum of only Eric Stephens and Elliott Teaford. :lol:

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2 hours ago, Jasoaks said:

It actually is kind of a weird phenomenon right? Like...it can't be for record or playoff success....literally Bobrovsky chose FLORIDA over CBJ lol it doesn't seem to be coach...I mean, are their taxes crazy?? I could see that to be at least a draw to Florida. Is there some sort of reputation with being on that team?

Can't be the fans...again...see Bob going to FLORIDA lol....

I could think owners...or...I dunno.

Bobrovsky got $10M/season to spend his winters in Miami playing for Joel Quenneville. I don't think that was a hard decision.

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48 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

Bobrovsky got $10M/season to spend his winters in Miami playing for Joel Quenneville. I don't think that was a hard decision.

Although with the way he's been going, he might be getting $10 million per season to spend his winters in Miami NOT playing for Joel Quenneville.  He's been really, really bad.

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1 hour ago, dtsdlaw said:

Oddly enough, with no real offensive superstars, a solid blue line, and a world class goaltender, Torts would be a pretty good fit in Anaheim. I don't think he plays the kind of hockey Bob wants though, and I also don't get the sense he's the type of coach that would mesh well with the GM either. Plus, it would probably be weird for Torts to give pressers with a media scrum of only Eric Stephens and Elliott Teaford. :lol:

You can have Torts or Zegras, you won’t have both!

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3 hours ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

You can have Torts or Zegras, you won’t have both!

Does Zegras not play a 200’ game? I was under the impression Zegras had some Kesler like qualities.

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22 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

Does Zegras not play a 200’ game? I was under the impression Zegras had some Kesler like qualities.

He doesn't have any glaring deficiencies on defense a la Sprong or Aberg and does have an edge to his game. I was just joking that Tortorella would help drive him out of town.

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3 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

Does Zegras not play a 200’ game? I was under the impression Zegras had some Kesler like qualities.

I think those are two different things.  Kesler played a 200' game but also enjoyed being a professional a-hole, which only helped on defense.  It seems like Zegras has some of that troll in him, but isn't the shutdown defender Kesler was.  Like Bombay said, he's not allergic to his own zone, but he's also not going to win any Selkes, at least not based on what he's shown thus far.

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18 hours ago, gorbachav5 said:

That shift where Carolina scored the tying goal, Laine could not have been less interested in defense.  I know his job is to mark the right point, but 1) he wasn't doing that since he was staring at the puck - his man could have moved right to the edge of the crease and he would have had no idea; and 2) he watched a player and the puck move into his area, unchecked, and just stood there and watched.  I don't blame Tortorella at all for benching him.  It's that kind of shift, too, that supports my wariness about acquiring him.  How good can a one-dimensional player truly be?  Yes, he's amazing at the one dimension.  But everything else is below average or worse - skating, passing, forechecking.  He might be the worst defensive player in the league.  Of course you'll take him because he's a 40-goal scorer and he'll still give you positive value because that goal-scoring skill is off the charts.  And the Ducks could really use some scoring skill.  But man, I don't look forward to watching the "controller disconnected" defense.

I have never played hockey so this may seem like a dumb question but to what extent can you cope with a guy not playing defense? Say you have Laine out there with 2 defensively responsible forwards, is it doable? Because he is one dimensional but like you say, we desperately need some goals. 

Having said that I also think it's more likely CBJ lets Torts walk after this season and they'll try to keep Laine. 

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2 hours ago, DucksFan_08 said:

I have never played hockey so this may seem like a dumb question but to what extent can you cope with a guy not playing defense? Say you have Laine out there with 2 defensively responsible forwards, is it doable? Because he is one dimensional but like you say, we desperately need some goals. 

Having said that I also think it's more likely CBJ lets Torts walk after this season and they'll try to keep Laine. 

Without even one guy back in the play at least standing at the point, there will be one guy open and basically that team would be on the power play whenever said player is on the ice. The player needs to get back and at least get into a passing lane.

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Apparently Laine's benching was due to verbally disrespecting a coach, and not due to his...defense (??) on that play.  I know he can score like crazy, but I don't know that I'm interested in all the issues.

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8 minutes ago, gorbachav5 said:

Apparently Laine's benching was due to verbally disrespecting a coach, and not due to his...defense (??) on that play.  I know he can score like crazy, but I don't know that I'm interested in all the issues.

Insane. He's been there 2 minutes and already mouthing off to the coaches.

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53 minutes ago, nieder said:

Insane. He's been there 2 minutes and already mouthing off to the coaches.

We don't know what was said, so I'm not ready to call it "mouthing off." What if it was something as simple as saying the power play scheme is crap a little too loud? Columbus has been a bottom-5 PP for the past three seasons under assistant coach Brad Larsen despite having some pretty talented forwards, so something is not right there. Heck, if we got a 40-goal scorer and he turned around the next day and told Morrison that his power play scheme sucks, I'd pin one of those 12 alternating "A"s on him between periods.

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30 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

We don't know what was said, so I'm not ready to call it "mouthing off." What if it was something as simple as saying the power play scheme is crap a little too loud? Columbus has been a bottom-5 PP for the past three seasons under assistant coach Brad Larsen despite having some pretty talented forwards, so something is not right there. Heck, if we got a 40-goal scorer and he turned around the next day and told Morrison that his power play scheme sucks, I'd pin one of those 12 alternating "A"s on him between periods.

I'm not okay with a player disrespecting his coaches, assuming his coach isn't disrespecting him.  We have no idea what was said, but I have to assume that Columbus isn't throwing false information out there to smear a star player that they just acquired and are hoping to re-sign.  So I'm comfortable assuming SOMETHING was said, and it wasn't nice.  If it's a one-time deal, fine.  But there are all sorts of red flags here - Laine has been known as a malcontent for a while, so this isn't a completely isolated incident.  And he's been in Columbus all of 10 days - he probably hasn't even unpacked yet; why is he already causing issues?

If he's frustrated with a terrible power play, I get it.  But there are right ways and wrong ways to go about discussing that kind of thing with the coaching staff.  If he doesn't respect the coaches enough to choose the right ways, he's not a guy I want to pay a $10 million to be around making everyone else miserable.

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3 hours ago, nieder said:

Insane. He's been there 2 minutes and already mouthing off to the coaches.

The NHL is getting softer each season. If a coach like Torts gets mad that someone said something out of line.... He should watch the interviews he gives. It’s stupid that  a player can’t tell someone in the coaching staff that it isn’t working.. I wish someone on our team *cough Getzlaf* would show some passion in saying the current system isn’t working.

Seriously,  just look at Marty Wilford. Guy looks like he’s waiting for players to beat him up on the bench after a crappy PP. the guy hasn’t had success EVER. 
im saying something if I’m a top player in the league. Tortarella is an a-hole , it must suck for star players to tell you that your system is incompetent. 

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15 minutes ago, yeaitsme said:

The NHL is getting softer each season. If a coach like Torts gets mad that someone said something out of line.... He should watch the interviews he gives. It’s stupid that  a player can’t tell someone in the coaching staff that it isn’t working.. I wish someone on our team *cough Getzlaf* would show some passion in saying the current system isn’t working.

Seriously,  just look at Marty Wilford. Guy looks like he’s waiting for players to beat him up on the bench after a crappy PP. the guy hasn’t had success EVER. 
im saying something if I’m a top player in the league. Tortarella is an a-hole , it must suck for star players to tell you that your system is incompetent. 

Again, there are right ways and wrong ways (and times) to say something.  If my boss tells me to do something and it doesn't work, I don't just get to say in a meeting in front of everyone, "See, a-hole?  You're a moron for thinking this will work." I would at least get written up for that and possibly fired.  Instead, I would call him to ask him for a meeting and tell him I want to talk to him about my concerns. 

There is a ton of nuance to this particular situation that we're unaware of because we don't know exactly what was said or what prompted it.  But I don't think it's unreasonable to expect players to respect their coaches.

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1 minute ago, gorbachav5 said:

Again, there are right ways and wrong ways (and times) to say something.  If my boss tells me to do something and it doesn't work, I don't just get to say in a meeting in front of everyone, "See, a-hole?  You're a moron for thinking this will work." I would at least get written up for that and possibly fired.  Instead, I would call him to ask him for a meeting and tell him I want to talk to him about my concerns. 

There is a ton of nuance to this particular situation that we're unaware of because we don't know exactly what was said or what prompted it.  But I don't think it's unreasonable to expect players to respect their coaches.

Pro sports do not equal real life. Pro athletes also play with an emotional edge that everyday workers can't relate to (unless you're a first responder, military, etc.) and it's not fair to hold them to the same standards that Joe the office worker should live up to during a Zoom call. Heck, Tom Brady has had multiple screaming matches with his offensive coordinators over the years during games. And then there's Ovechkin, who once called Boudreau a "Fat F@ck" on the bench (on live TV) during a game in 2011 when BB drew up a play at the end of the game with the goalie pulled and had the gall to not use Ovi as the 6th attacker. I don't think it should be a regular thing, but if a player crosses the line and says something during the heat of battle, I don't think it should be a disqualifier (Ovi went on to score at least 48 goals 6 times since then and win a Cup).

So I'll take Laine every day of the week and twice on Sundays. He's going to pot 50 the next time he plays 82 games.

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39 minutes ago, gorbachav5 said:

Again, there are right ways and wrong ways (and times) to say something.  If my boss tells me to do something and it doesn't work, I don't just get to say in a meeting in front of everyone, "See, a-hole?  You're a moron for thinking this will work." I would at least get written up for that and possibly fired.  Instead, I would call him to ask him for a meeting and tell him I want to talk to him about my concerns. 

There is a ton of nuance to this particular situation that we're unaware of because we don't know exactly what was said or what prompted it.  But I don't think it's unreasonable to expect players to respect their coaches.

We are talking about Torts though. You can’t expect that a player won’t voice his opinion. How do you know that he said this in front of the entire squad? Do you think Dubois didn’t voice displeasure before the media caught hold of it ? Torts is the problem , not Laine. He is well known for his outdated style just as much as RC was known for is out of date systems and boys club attitude. If a player scores goals, they should be in the lineup. If the Jackets lost that game, there would be a whole different context surrounding it. Torts blows 

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2 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

Pro sports do not equal real life. Pro athletes also play with an emotional edge that everyday workers can't relate to (unless you're a first responder, military, etc.) and it's not fair to hold them to the same standards that Joe the office worker should live up to during a Zoom call. Heck, Tom Brady has had multiple screaming matches with his offensive coordinators over the years during games. And then there's Ovechkin, who once called Boudreau a "Fat F@ck" on the bench (on live TV) during a game in 2011 when BB drew up a play at the end of the game with the goalie pulled and had the gall to not use Ovi as the 6th attacker. I don't think it should be a regular thing, but if a player crosses the line and says something during the heat of battle, I don't think it should be a disqualifier (Ovi went on to score at least 48 goals 6 times since then and win a Cup).

So I'll take Laine every day of the week and twice on Sundays. He's going to pot 50 the next time he plays 82 games.

Treating people with respect is real life regardless of your profession.  There's a scale, sure, and what flies for my work and what flies in the NHL are different.  But there is still a line, and if Laine crossed it, he deserves to be benched.  There is nothing unfair about that.

This isn't a deal-breaker for me, but I was already not super high on Laine, so I'm even less inclined to give up assets for him (and then pay him $10 million).  He might score 50 while watching the guy he's supposed to be marking score 49.  He's a power play machine, but advanced stat models hate his play at 5-on-5.  

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