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23 minutes ago, Jasoaks said:

Well, Mantha is younger was a higher pick so maybe has a higher ceiling...bigger? I can't imagine BM would have denied a deal like Mantha got if he could get that...considering he was at least looking for a prospect/1st rounder.

Also, so, if we lose Mahura or Shatt (unlikely) or Fleury....we still have 2 of those players...and then that would mean we lost ZERO forwards. Also, don't need to protect Comtois and likely protecting Rico, Silfv, Rakell, Terry, Lundy, Heinen....so that would leave Milano and Steel being exposed...

So between Milano, Steel, Mahura, Shatt, Fleury...you're just losing 1. And it's unlikely to be Shatt. Unlikely to be Milano (injuries, so I would imagine just not enough to see it's worth it). And if we lose one of Mahura or Fluery...we still have the other. Also, I'd imagine leaving Rico exposed is unlikely he gets taken, too. 

didn't BM sign the Shatt in a way where we don't have to protect him, contractually?  if what i remember is true... i can't imagine any scenario where we waste a protection spot on the Shatt.

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10 minutes ago, saskduckfan said:

I'm not sure what the issue is there. The Ducks go 7F, 3D. Manson, Fowler, Lindholm on D and out of the F listed, Rakell, Terry, Comtois, Steel, Lundestrom. That's only 5. Heinen was almost traded this year, so there really are no plans for him going forward. Henrique on waivers, no plan either. Silfverberg is getting older and shouldn't be part of the team when the Ducks make the playoffs next (not happening anytime soon), Milano never gets played, not sure why he was resigned but looks like no plans either. Comtois is ED exempt, so he shouldn't be on your list which only leaves 8F.

If the Ducks lose one of Henrique, Shattenkirk, Larson in the ED, then that's great for them. Henrique and Shattenkirk are on terrible contracts. If they can lose one, bonus.

Milano has been hurt. But he’s always made us better when he’s on the ice. 
No way do I protect Shattenkirk, Henrique l, Silfverberg. The part that annoys me is that we now HAVE to protect Rakell and Manson because we didn’t trade them. So you better hope they stay healthy and don’t suck to close the season. 
 

I think you protect Mahura unless Fleury really impresses. Not to mention you can make a deal to Seattle and make sure you don’t lose someone you want 

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7 minutes ago, Sexlaf15 said:

that’s my captain 

yeah, that was the only thing about TOR signing Fog - they used up their 1st, which meant that they didn't have much they could give us for Getz (if they could work out the financials).  frankly, i would have accepted a 1st in 2022 and a prospect, or a 1st in 2022 and a first or second in 2023.  i think Getz would have loved to be on that team for their cup run, and we'd have shored up the tail end of our rebuild, either with tradeable picks or another prospect.  and, while no team wants to trade away their future picks too heavily... TOR has been waiting forever for a decent postseason performance, and most of their cap present and future is dedicated to young players that, if needed, could be traded for multiple picks back.  they surely won't be needing a rebuild within the next 4-5 years, and getting Getz on their team doesn't mess with their ED strategy in any way I can see.

but... that team is already ridiculous with young and old talent, and they've basically bent every cap rule to get there already.  i could imagine some pretty hefty chirping and maybe even some political ramifications if they load up even more.  shrug.  i would have rooted for them and Getz.  

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2 minutes ago, Sexlaf15 said:

Milano has been hurt. But he’s always made us better when he’s on the ice. 
No way do I protect Shattenkirk, Henrique l, Silfverberg. The part that annoys me is that we now HAVE to protect Rakell and Manson because we didn’t trade them. So you better hope they stay healthy and don’t suck to close the season. 
 

I think you protect Mahura unless Fleury really impresses. Not to mention you can make a deal to Seattle and make sure you don’t lose someone you want 

Mahura over Manson?  not sure we can protect either Mahura or Fleury without a top 3 trade first.

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4 minutes ago, Fisix said:

Mahura over Manson?  not sure we can protect either Mahura or Fleury without a top 3 trade first.

Mahura is a Theodore situation waiting. I was thinking 4 D for some reason. You have to protect Manson. 

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28 minutes ago, Fisix said:

yeah, that was the only thing about TOR signing Fog - they used up their 1st, which meant that they didn't have much they could give us for Getz (if they could work out the financials).  frankly, i would have accepted a 1st in 2022 and a prospect, or a 1st in 2022 and a first or second in 2023.  i think Getz would have loved to be on that team for their cup run, and we'd have shored up the tail end of our rebuild, either with tradeable picks or another prospect.  and, while no team wants to trade away their future picks too heavily... TOR has been waiting forever for a decent postseason performance, and most of their cap present and future is dedicated to young players that, if needed, could be traded for multiple picks back.  they surely won't be needing a rebuild within the next 4-5 years, and getting Getz on their team doesn't mess with their ED strategy in any way I can see.

but... that team is already ridiculous with young and old talent, and they've basically bent every cap rule to get there already.  i could imagine some pretty hefty chirping and maybe even some political ramifications if they load up even more.  shrug.  i would have rooted for them and Getz.  

So Columbus got 1st and 4th round picks from Toronto for 33 year old Nick Foligno who has 16 points in 42 games and has a cap hit of $5.5 MM.  Why couldn't GMBM swing a similar deal for Henrique, who has the same points in fewer games with more goals, is younger, and makes slightly more than Foligno?  I saw lots of comments how the better deals will come this summer because teams won't have to worry about the ED, but yet other teams were still able to swing deals to get good returns for the futures of their teams. 

The Ducks have now gone 3 consecutive seasons both missing the playoffs and not trading a single player over 25 years old for a significant return in picks and/or prospects.  A lot of you follow this a lot more closely than I do and are smarter in these matters, so please educate me because I sure as hell don't understand what GMBM is doing.

I see that Henrique still has 3 more years on his contract while Foligno's is up at the end of the season, but he will be the same age as Foligno is now when his contract ends, so I don't see how it's so much worse.

Edited by CAsFirstCup

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3 minutes ago, Sexlaf15 said:

Mahura is a Theodore situation waiting. I was thinking 4 D for some reason. You have to protect Manson. 

i just went through the capfriendly list, and we could just go with 8 players (assuming the Shatt doesn't need protection - I'm pretty sure I read that when the trade went through):
F - Getz (required by contract?), RR, TT, Lundestrum.
D - CF, HL, Manson, Mahura

what i don't know is whether Hank and Silf need to be protected because of their NTCs, or if they'd waive. 

if we need to protect Hank and Silf, then:
F - Getz, RR, TT, Lundestrum, Silf, Hank, MaxJ.
D - CF, HL, (Mahura or Manson)

with the moves BM just made... i think he's setting Seattle up to get Shatt and Fleury (cap sink and prospect) in order to keep off Mahura/Manson.  Mahura is a better prospect than Fleury - Mahura is cheaper and younger with a longer cheaper contract, and I think he's better game stats-wise (so far).

Larsson was supposed to be the bait, but that didn't materialize, and Hutton didn't step into those shoes either.  Now, all we need is Fleury to show at least SOME success on the ice in the remaining games (after we can ice him), and then I think Seattle takes the deal, maybe sweetened by a later-rounds pick.

it's either that, or one of the forwards is involved.  personally, I'd take MaxJ over any of our defensive rooks.  MaxJ is ~Cogs with a little extra swagger, and damn i hope he ends up with a better shot percentage eventually.

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8 minutes ago, Fisix said:

i just went through the capfriendly list, and we could just go with 8 players (assuming the Shatt doesn't need protection - I'm pretty sure I read that when the trade went through):
F - Getz (required by contract?), RR, TT, Lundestrum.
D - CF, HL, Manson, Mahura

what i don't know is whether Hank and Silf need to be protected because of their NTCs, or if they'd waive. 

if we need to protect Hank and Silf, then:
F - Getz, RR, TT, Lundestrum, Silf, Hank, MaxJ.
D - CF, HL, (Mahura or Manson)

with the moves BM just made... i think he's setting Seattle up to get Shatt and Fleury (cap sink and prospect) in order to keep off Mahura/Manson.  Mahura is a better prospect than Fleury - Mahura is cheaper and younger with a longer cheaper contract, and I think he's better game stats-wise (so far).

Larsson was supposed to be the bait, but that didn't materialize, and Hutton didn't step into those shoes either.  Now, all we need is Fleury to show at least SOME success on the ice in the remaining games (after we can ice him), and then I think Seattle takes the deal, maybe sweetened by a later-rounds pick.

it's either that, or one of the forwards is involved.  personally, I'd take MaxJ over any of our defensive rooks.  MaxJ is ~Cogs with a little extra swagger, and damn i hope he ends up with a better shot percentage eventually.

I don’t think you need to protect Rico or Silf. Getzlaf is a FA and doesn’t need to be protected as we can sign him after the ED

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12 minutes ago, CAsFirstCup said:

So Columbus got 1st and 4th round picks from Toronto for 33 year old Nick Foligno who has 16 points in 42 games and has a cap hit of $5.5 MM.  Why couldn't GMBM swing a similar deal for Henrique, who has the same points in fewer games with more goals, is younger, and makes slightly more than Foligno?  I saw lots of comments how the better deals will come this summer because teams won't have to worry about the ED, but yet other teams were still able to swing deals to get good returns for the futures of their teams. 

The Ducks have now gone 3 consecutive seasons both missing the playoffs and not trading a single player over 25 years old for a significant return in picks and/or prospects.  A lot of you follow this a lot more closely than I do and are smarter in these matters, so please educate me because I sure as hell don't understand what GMBM is doing.

Hank has a modified NTC and, apparently, has already asserted it once this season.  i don't know for certain, but i also don't think Hank is up for doing BM any favors right now.  moreover, TOR had to work a deal with 2 other teams to get Fog... it was a complex deal and would be difficult to replicate with a different player (and Fog is arguably a better add than Hank, where TOR needs him).  

finally, and this is probably the most important - anyone taking on Hank takes on a multi year contract.  Fog is a rental - his contract is up at the end of the season.  TOR can't take on any contracts in the ball park of Fog's or Hank's for more than the remainder of this season.  so... Hank was never in the running for the Fog transaction.  and, more importantly, with the flat cap and the ED coming up, i can't think of a team with something we want in return who would want a multi-year contract like Hank's.  

so, that's why BM couldn't swing a deal for Hank similar to the Fog transaction.

Edited by Fisix
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2 minutes ago, Sexlaf15 said:

I don’t think you need to protect Rico or Silf. Getzlaf is a FA and doesn’t need to be protected as we can sign him after the ED

lets see if we can confirm this. 

i know i've read somewhere that Getz being an FA doesn't magically protect him from the ED.  i think the deal with FAs who aren't under contract for the next season is that the team with the expiring contract doesn't have to protect them based on an NMC in that player's contract (the NMC expires before the ED, essentially).  and, maybe by selecting an FA, Seattle still needs to negotiate a contract price or they've wasted their pick, which can sour the milk a bit (why potentially waste a pick when they can get a sure thing through a roster pick or a deal).  but, Seattle can still select them. 

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16 minutes ago, Fisix said:

Mahura over Manson?  not sure we can protect either Mahura or Fleury without a top 3 trade first.

The acquisition of Fleury really makes me believe even more that GMBM has already worked out the basics of a deal with Seattle. Because you're absolutely right - we have too many D-men to protect, and we would have had too many even if we'd traded Manson. I'm as hard on GMBM as anyone here, but he's playing 3D chess right now with the expansion draft because of how badly he looked after the last draft, so every move he makes has to be considered as part of a larger ED strategy. We also know that he's also always been really big on the character and harmony of the room, and he's commented before about the possibility of resentment if some guys know they're being exposed while others aren't, so I think he has incentive to kind of shield the players from that resentment by working out a deal ahead of time. Personally, I think that either Henrique or Shattenkirk will be a Kraken next season, and that a mid-level prospect/youngish player and a mid-round pick will be used as sweeteners. With Zegras and Drysdale knocking our socks off, he really needs to get out from under at least one of those contracts to make way for them. It's different than, say, Silfverberg, who may be a bit overpaid, but if you lose Silf then who steps into his role as our best checking forward and best right-shot forward on the top-PK unit?  I see no redundancy with Silf. Meanwhile, Rico<-->Zegras and Shattenkirk<-->Drysdale are basically old-for-new swaps in terms of where they could fit into the lineup next season. Rico makes the most sense to move due to the waivers situation and his obvious unhappiness with his role on the team this season, but Shattenkirk's contract ($2.5M-$4.25M-$4.95M as the salary breakdown) also looks like it was designed with the expansion draft in mind in case he turned out to be a dud, so maybe the Ducks would be more incentivized to get out from under Shattenkirk's contract so they're not paying $9.2M to a 33/34-year-old 3rd pair D-man for the next two seasons while Drysdale gets crowded out of ice time. Both Henrique and Shattenkirk are also "names" that could draw in fans for Seattle too. Especially Shattenkirk since he has a recent Cup.

There may still be more trades coming to the big names like Manson and Rakell, but I think Bob's attention is now squarely on the ED and doing his evaluations for the entry draft. Trades can wait until after the ED.

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3 minutes ago, Fisix said:

lets see if we can confirm this. 

i know i've read somewhere that Getz being an FA doesn't magically protect him from the ED.  i think the deal with FAs who aren't under contract for the next season is that the team with the expiring contract doesn't have to protect them based on an NMC in that player's contract (the NMC expires before the ED, essentially).  and, maybe by selecting an FA, Seattle still needs to negotiate a contract price or they've wasted their pick, which can sour the milk a bit (why potentially waste a pick when they can get a sure thing through a roster pick or a deal).  but, Seattle can still select them. 

You don't have to protect Getzlaf because he is not going to sign with Seattle even if they do take him. They would only retain his rights until the first day of the UFA period, so sure they can pick him but it would essentially be a wasted pick. It's the exact same situation as San Jose had with Thornton during the Vegas ED. Seattle won't pick him, so the Ducks don't need to protect him.

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1 hour ago, ChopSuey said:

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is this a sinking ship?

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6 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

You don't have to protect Getzlaf because he is not going to sign with Seattle even if they do take him. They would only retain his rights until the first day of the UFA period, so sure they can pick him but it would essentially be a wasted pick. It's the exact same situation as San Jose had with Thornton during the Vegas ED. Seattle won't pick him, so the Ducks don't need to protect him.

excellent, then i think that opens up the following possible ED strategy (though team politics might suffer):
F - Silf, TT, Lundestrom, RR.
D - CF, HL, Manson, Mahura.

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27 minutes ago, CAsFirstCup said:

So Columbus got 1st and 4th round picks from Toronto for 33 year old Nick Foligno who has 16 points in 42 games and has a cap hit of $5.5 MM.  Why couldn't GMBM swing a similar deal for Henrique, who has the same points in fewer games with more goals, is younger, and makes slightly more than Foligno?  I saw lots of comments how the better deals will come this summer because teams won't have to worry about the ED, but yet other teams were still able to swing deals to get good returns for the futures of their teams. 

The Ducks have now gone 3 consecutive seasons both missing the playoffs and not trading a single player over 25 years old for a significant return in picks and/or prospects.  A lot of you follow this a lot more closely than I do and are smarter in these matters, so please educate me because I sure as hell don't understand what GMBM is doing.

I see that Henrique still has 3 more years on his contract while Foligno's is up at the end of the season, but he will be the same age as Foligno is now when his contract ends, so I don't see how it's so much worse.

Nobody wants to take on Rico's contract at this moment. That may change this summer, but there are only a handful of teams taking on players at the trade deadline and almost all of the players that were just moved are on expiring contracts with very little actual $$ left on their contracts in terms of salary. As far as I can tell, the only traded players who had any term left on their contracts are Haydn Fleury (who we got), Curtis Lazar ($800K cap hit), Jeff Carter ($2.6M cap hit, but unlikely to be protected in the ED since he's 36), and Anthony Mantha (26 y/o with 3 more years @ $5.7M). It's just not the time to make significant trades for older players (30+) who have years and big money left of their contracts. 

If you want Rico to get us the same return as Foligno got for Columbus, just wait until he's 34 and in the last year of his contract. He'll probably still be a 20-goal scorer by then too. :P

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1 hour ago, Sexlaf15 said:

Milano has been hurt. But he’s always made us better when he’s on the ice. 
No way do I protect Shattenkirk, Henrique l, Silfverberg. The part that annoys me is that we now HAVE to protect Rakell and Manson because we didn’t trade them. So you better hope they stay healthy and don’t suck to close the season. 
 

I think you protect Mahura unless Fleury really impresses. Not to mention you can make a deal to Seattle and make sure you don’t lose someone you want 

Completely disagree on Milano.  He won't ever amount to anything decent.

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2 hours ago, Jasoaks said:

9 fs and 5 ds?? what? what do you mean? After the ED is not too late. You only lose 1 player in the ED. Don't need to sell super low on everyone to be able to protect every single player you like...when you can lose one player and then sell high after the ED when other teams don't need to worry about protecting spots.

guessing very little....probably would give us something better after the ED.

It’s just that a very good GM in yzerman with a rebuilding team did the opposite of what the Ducks did and traded a guy with more term and money than Rakell and got a good return in the process. The stakes going forward are higher now that Murray knows what he’s doing. So, naturally I’m more concerned!

 

 

Edited by BombaysTripleDeke

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1 hour ago, WolfgangDuck said:

Completely disagree on Milano.  He won't ever amount to anything decent.

I really don’t understand some of y’all’s talent observation. 

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2 hours ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

It’s just that a very good GM in yzerman with a rebuilding team did the opposite of what the Ducks did and traded a guy with more term and money than Rakell and got a good return in the process. The stakes going forward are higher now that Murray knows what he’s doing. So, naturally I’m more concerned!

 

 

I do completely agree that now after the ED....he better really step up...

And I wonder why Yzerman seems to make some great deals...I mean, arguably he got the best haul of anyone....and that was with Hall being available lol

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4 hours ago, Fisix said:

didn't BM sign the Shatt in a way where we don't have to protect him, contractually?  if what i remember is true... i can't imagine any scenario where we waste a protection spot on the Shatt.

yeah exactly. Well, I mean, he doesnt have a NMC...so...I think that's all that matters? Maybe he made it clear before the contract that he wouldn't protect him.

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2 hours ago, Sexlaf15 said:

I really don’t understand some of y’all’s talent observation. 

I see a lot of tools but no toolbox. I was really hopeful for him at the beginning, but the more I’ve seen of him the more I’ve been disappointed with his hockey sense.

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3 hours ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

It’s just that a very good GM in yzerman with a rebuilding team did the opposite of what the Ducks did and traded a guy with more term and money than Rakell and got a good return in the process. The stakes going forward are higher now that Murray knows what he’s doing. So, naturally I’m more concerned!

 

 

I think part of the reason he got such a haul was that the Caps wanted rid of Panik's contract, so they had to give up even more in order to make Panik part of that deal.

Ducks don't have the cap space to weaponize it like that.

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15 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

I see a lot of tools but no toolbox. I was really hopeful for him at the beginning, but the more I’ve seen of him the more I’ve been disappointed with his hockey sense.

Milano has only played 15 games for us, it seems too short a period to really judge him. Biggest issue is that he can't stay healthy.

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21 minutes ago, nieder said:

I think part of the reason he got such a haul was that the Caps wanted rid of Panik's contract, so they had to give up even more in order to make Panik part of that deal.

Ducks don't have the cap space to weaponize it like that.

Great job by Yzerman to take advantage of it then.

Now the focus heads to the ED and the entry draft. I wonder if the Fluery trade is to have another defense in case Mahura or d-man gets taken and if they are going to move off Larsson and possibly Lindholm going forward.

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1 hour ago, dtsdlaw said:

I see a lot of tools but no toolbox. I was really hopeful for him at the beginning, but the more I’ve seen of him the more I’ve been disappointed with his hockey sense.

Milano would be a perfect 3rd Liner. A guy who can score against weaker competition. 
Milano - Steel/Carrick - Heinen

as a third line looks solid. This team is better with him in the lineup. He’s got skill and sleep. We can’t keep giving up on these scorers. 

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1 hour ago, nieder said:

Milano has only played 15 games for us, it seems too short a period to really judge him. Biggest issue is that he can't stay healthy.

that has to be part of the evaluation - if he can't play long enough to judge him based on his skill, then that's worse than being a (relatively) unskilled player.

(separate conversation) - does Yzerman have a good relationship with players, where they want to go where he is, and so with that added pressure from the players (or even just acceptance vs. rejection), those deals get greased more easily?

-KW

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5 minutes ago, Fisix said:

that has to be part of the evaluation - if he can't play long enough to judge him based on his skill, then that's worse than being a (relatively) unskilled player.

(separate conversation) - does Yzerman have a good relationship with players, where they want to go where he is, and so with that added pressure from the players (or even just acceptance vs. rejection), those deals get greased more easily?

-KW

We have nothing but time to give Milano. What good does moving him at his lowest value for nothing do? Give him opportunities, put him in situations to succeed. We’re going nowhere fast.

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7 hours ago, saskduckfan said:

I'm not sure what the issue is there. The Ducks go 7F, 3D. Manson, Fowler, Lindholm on D and out of the F listed, Rakell, Terry, Comtois, Steel, Lundestrom. That's only 5. Heinen was almost traded this year, so there really are no plans for him going forward. Henrique on waivers, no plan either. Silfverberg is getting older and shouldn't be part of the team when the Ducks make the playoffs next (not happening anytime soon), Milano never gets played, not sure why he was resigned but looks like no plans either. Comtois is ED exempt, so he shouldn't be on your list which only leaves 8F.

If the Ducks lose one of Henrique, Shattenkirk, Larson in the ED, then that's great for them. Henrique and Shattenkirk are on terrible contracts. If they can lose one, bonus.

yes, Comtois I forgot. but Volkov now also in the mix...

I would protect Rakell, Henrique, Jones, Terry, and then 3 of Volkov, Silfverberg, Steel, Lundestrom. Milano and Heinen will not go protected. Silfy for me isn't long term, but he has some trade value, same Henrique and Rakell.

the D is much more difficult with unprotected Shatt, Mahura, Fleury...

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