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6 hours ago, gotchabari said:

I think the play of Zegras and Drysdale has helped the potential for getting someone like Eichel.  It may even be better for us if we wait until NMC and he DOES have a say.  

Queens are ready to throw the world at Buffalo.  Prior to NMC, Sabres would go that direction.  After NMC, Eichel may say that he wants to play with Zegras and Drysdale, so Sabres had better accept what the Ducks send.

Obviously, it can't be peanuts, but it can be less than LA and still be enough.

If Zegras and Drysdale had cemented themselves has bonafide high-end/cornerstone players in the NHL then maybe but they haven't yet and I don't see Eichel waiting around for that to hopefully happen. Eichel has said before that he wants to be in the playoffs now/is sick of losing and the Ducks are one of the worst teams to help him with that. So, I agree with dtsdlaw that if the Ducks were to trade for him then it would have to be before his NMC kicks in because Anaheim doesn't have much of anything to sell him on currently. We are also on the path of being the team that he's be traded from lol. Plus, before a team spends a boatload of assets to get Eichel, wouldn't they want to make sure that he's on board with your team's plans regardless of whether he has a NMC? Otherwise, you run the risk of him wanting out of town and the we are in the same position that Buffalo is in now. 

15 hours ago, gorbachav5 said:

Yeah, but if you look in that general range, there are a few.  Eeli Tolvanen, Anthony Beauvillier, David Pastrnak, Adrian Kempe, Tanner Pearson, Philip Danault, Rickard Rakell.  It's not an overwhelming number of hits, but there were 19 wingers drafted between 25 - 30 from 2011 - 2017 and a third of them have been solid to good, plus another few who have been useful.  Less than half were complete busts.

I know what you're saying - if trading Perrault gets you a proven superstar like Eichel, it's a risk you have to take.  But the Ducks are going to need some of these late first round prospects to turn into solid top six forwards, even with Eichel on the team.

Agreed. Perreault is one of those guys and he has looked way better than I thought he would at age 18 playing in the AHL. His playmaking has stood out more than his shot. My only concern right now is that he's taking a lot of big hits and it's caused some early injuries. We need to hit on some of our current prospects before swinging for the fences on a trade like this. So, I am not in the "trade for Eichel" camp but assuming that the Ducks did. Then what? He's still going to need a couple major upgrades on offense to help support him and I'm not sure where that comes from or if Murray/Eakins could pull it off. 

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2 hours ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

If Zegras and Drysdale had cemented themselves has bonafide high-end/cornerstone players in the NHL then maybe but they haven't yet and I don't see Eichel waiting around for that to hopefully happen. Eichel has said before that he wants to be in the playoffs now/is sick of losing and the Ducks are one of the worst teams to help him with that. So, I agree with dtsdlaw that if the Ducks were to trade for him then it would have to be before his NMC kicks in because Anaheim doesn't have much of anything to sell him on currently. We are also on the path of being the team that he's be traded from lol. Plus, before a team spends a boatload of assets to get Eichel, wouldn't they want to make sure that he's on board with your team's plans regardless of whether he has a NMC? Otherwise, you run the risk of him wanting out of town and the we are in the same position that Buffalo is in now. 

Agreed. Perreault is one of those guys and he has looked way better than I thought he would at age 18 playing in the AHL. His playmaking has stood out more than his shot. My only concern right now is that he's taking a lot of big hits and it's caused some early injuries. We need to hit on some of our current prospects before swinging for the fences on a trade like this. So, I am not in the "trade for Eichel" camp but assuming that the Ducks did. Then what? He's still going to need a couple major upgrades on offense to help support him and I'm not sure where that comes from or if Murray/Eakins could pull it off. 

1. New Coach

2. Comtois-Eichel-Rakell, Rico-Zegras-Terry, Jones-Getzlaf-Silfverberg, Steel-Lundestrom-Volkov

3. Lindholm-Manson, Fowler-Shattenkirk, Fleury-Drysdale

4. Gibby, Stolarz

That's only 12 Fs and 6D, but by my estimation for cap numbers next season, that group would still have in excess of $3M in cap space even without putting Kesler on LTIR. I think that's playoff team next season. And if it turns out they're not, they'd then be selling Manson and Rakell at the deadline for picks and prospects anyway. 

An 80+ point player changes the entire complexity of this team.

Edited by dtsdlaw

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1 hour ago, dtsdlaw said:

1. New Coach

2. Comtois-Eichel-Rakell, Rico-Zegras-Terry, Jones-Getzlaf-Silfverberg, Steel-Lundestrom-Volkov

3. Lindholm-Manson, Fowler-Shattenkirk, Fleury-Drysdale

4. Gibby, Stolarz

That's only 12 Fs and 6D, but by my estimation for cap numbers next season, that group would still have in excess of $3M in cap space even without putting Kesler on LTIR. I think that's playoff team next season. And if it turns out they're not, they'd then be selling Manson and Rakell at the deadline for picks and prospects anyway. 

An 80+ point player changes the entire complexity of this team.

I don't see Murray getting rid of Eakins though or that he'd get another coaching hire. The assistants getting fired I think is going to happen but Eakins is still the bench commander going into next season. Do you have Zegras as the 2C then? I'm hesitant locking him in at that position since he'll have such little NHL experience at the center position by then. Though, I guess you can switch those lines and have him in the 3C role to start out. Still, I expect him to have growing pains as in his first full NHL season at center.

If this is the projected roster for next season, then I can see them being a bubble playoff team..at best but for only one season. So, it is also extremely fraught with risk, imo. If the Ducks are still bad (very possible even with Eichel) then they'll trade Rakell/Manson at the deadline but for far less than they could this offseason. If the Ducks get into the playoffs, they aren't winning the Cup and could then lose key UFAs for nothing which then sets them back again. Or you re-sign them during the least productive years, at more money which isn't ideal. Eichel would help but is he going to vault this team from the cellar to just even a playoff spot? We'd still be relying on mostly the same core of players who would be older and have shown that they are nowhere near close to the playoffs or a Cup contender. McDavid and Draisaitl are two of the best players in the world yet the Oilers aren't even a consistent playoff team with them.

We are only three seasons into being unintentionally bad. If the Ducks don't do anything short-sided and pull the trigger on a major trade too early before they are better established with a newer core then we can have an unit of a team that can contend for several years a la Tampa Bay, IMO.

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6 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

1. New Coach

2. Comtois-Eichel-Rakell, Rico-Zegras-Terry, Jones-Getzlaf-Silfverberg, Steel-Lundestrom-Volkov

3. Lindholm-Manson, Fowler-Shattenkirk, Fleury-Drysdale

4. Gibby, Stolarz

That's only 12 Fs and 6D, but by my estimation for cap numbers next season, that group would still have in excess of $3M in cap space even without putting Kesler on LTIR. I think that's playoff team next season. And if it turns out they're not, they'd then be selling Manson and Rakell at the deadline for picks and prospects anyway. 

An 80+ point player changes the entire complexity of this team.

Looks good, but I assume we would lose at least one of our young players to Buffalo for Eichel and one player goes to Seattle. 

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5 hours ago, nieder said:

Looks good, but I assume we would lose at least one of our young players to Buffalo for Eichel and one player goes to Seattle. 

I left Mahura, Milano, and Heinen out for that reason. One of those could easily be the Kraken pick and the other two can be trade bait.

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I'd love to get Eichel but buffalo would be dumb not to ask for Zegras or Drysdale. Don't know whether buffalo would bite on Gibson. He's still fairly young but buffalo ain't competing the coming years. 
I'd have to problem giving up our 1st this year. I'd be down with giving up our 1st next year since getting Eichel would solve our center problem. We'd have to include Henrique for salary purposes so pretty much dts' package. Sadly enough I think there are quite a few teams (kings and rangers to name a few) who have the pieces to beat that offer. 

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On 4/17/2021 at 3:45 AM, Jasoaks said:

I was thinking about it...and honestly, I think people put too much stock into "losing now = stanley cup later" 'cause losing gets you a higher draft pick and higher draft pick = stanley cup.

I wouldn't say it's not COMPLETELY worth it, but i'd say that it's a 50/50 chance that losing now, and losing consistently will result in a very strong team down the line...or actually perpetuate a culture of losing that will be very difficult to get out of...

On one hand you've got the Pens and Hawks....and another you've got the Oilers and Sabres... you've got the Blues...and you've also got the Lightning (although Stamkos was hardly a factor in 2020...Hedman was still #2 pick though). And you also have a team like the Rangers who hardly have done any tanking at all. And jury is still out on the Leafs...and we'll see how the Devils, Wings, and Sens turn out...

Personally, I think it's more valuable for our players to win more games regardless of the season and to continue to be rewarded for their hard work and continue to win games than it is to lose. I think we are more likely to be a better team later if we are winning games now. Let's NOT risk creating a losing culture if we can help it.

look at the Stanley Cup winners of the last 15 years. Detroit and Ducks were the only winners who not drafted a guy in top 3.. WSH, LAK, CHI, PIT, TB ect. all had their top 1-5 overall and Elite players. the most of them drafted first overall players...

I say, that you need at least 1 of this Elite players. we had it with Perry&Getzlaf in their prime and we were nearly there in the 2010s. now we have not one Elite player! we have 2 good prospects, but that is not enough to win a Cup! bad thing is, this draft year have not a real first overall player as was it all the years. a lot of defenders in the top 5-6... but our biggest issue is goal scoring...

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1 hour ago, Spike1981 said:

look at the Stanley Cup winners of the last 15 years. Detroit and Ducks were the only winners who not drafted a guy in top 3.. WSH, LAK, CHI, PIT, TB ect. all had their top 1-5 overall and Elite players. the most of them drafted first overall players...

I say, that you need at least 1 of this Elite players. we had it with Perry&Getzlaf in their prime and we were nearly there in the 2010s. now we have not one Elite player! we have 2 good prospects, but that is not enough to win a Cup! bad thing is, this draft year have not a real first overall player as was it all the years. a lot of defenders in the top 5-6... but our biggest issue is goal scoring...

St. Louis? Pietrangelo was drafted #4 overall. Schenn was #5. I hope you're not counting Erik Johnson (drafted 1st overall in 2006 but traded away in 2011).

Also, the 2011 Bruins may technically qualify with Seguin, but he was a 19-year-old rookie who only played in 13 of their playoff games. They've also made Finals since he was traded away. In fact, several teams have made the finals without having made that elusive top-3 pick. And many more teams HAVE made that pick and still haven't done squat in the playoffs.

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3 hours ago, Spike1981 said:

look at the Stanley Cup winners of the last 15 years. Detroit and Ducks were the only winners who not drafted a guy in top 3.. WSH, LAK, CHI, PIT, TB ect. all had their top 1-5 overall and Elite players. the most of them drafted first overall players...

I say, that you need at least 1 of this Elite players. we had it with Perry&Getzlaf in their prime and we were nearly there in the 2010s. now we have not one Elite player! we have 2 good prospects, but that is not enough to win a Cup! bad thing is, this draft year have not a real first overall player as was it all the years. a lot of defenders in the top 5-6... but our biggest issue is goal scoring...

You could also look at it the other way...not very many #1 picks have a stanley cup (i haven't looked at 2-5s though...). Also, look at washington...how long did it take them to get a cup with Ovi? 13 years I believe it was? Clearly having Ovi was NOT the deciding factor to their cup. I do agree though, we need an elite player. I'm just saying that those elite players don't necessarily always come from tanking. It seems to be 50/50 that tanking = star player = stanley cup. Buffalo, New Jersey, Toronto, Edmonton are hurting those numbers...where as Pittsburgh and Chicago are helping them. even NYR are hurting them by showing you can just be lucky and not have to consistently be low in the standings to be competitive haha

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5 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

St. Louis? Pietrangelo was drafted #4 overall. Schenn was #5. I hope you're not counting Erik Johnson (drafted 1st overall in 2006 but traded away in 2011).

Also, the 2011 Bruins may technically qualify with Seguin, but he was a 19-year-old rookie who only played in 13 of their playoff games. They've also made Finals since he was traded away. In fact, several teams have made the finals without having made that elusive top-3 pick. And many more teams HAVE made that pick and still haven't done squat in the playoffs.

ah I wanted change it to top 5 because STL, but I forgot it. ok Bruins, Ducks and Detroit were the only teams in the last 15 years without a top 5 pick.

 

3 hours ago, Jasoaks said:

You could also look at it the other way...not very many #1 picks have a stanley cup (i haven't looked at 2-5s though...). Also, look at washington...how long did it take them to get a cup with Ovi? 13 years I believe it was? Clearly having Ovi was NOT the deciding factor to their cup. I do agree though, we need an elite player. I'm just saying that those elite players don't necessarily always come from tanking. It seems to be 50/50 that tanking = star player = stanley cup. Buffalo, New Jersey, Toronto, Edmonton are hurting those numbers...where as Pittsburgh and Chicago are helping them. even NYR are hurting them by showing you can just be lucky and not have to consistently be low in the standings to be competitive haha

of course its not ONLY the elite player, but you (almost) must have at least one of them to win the Cup. you need a good goalie and teammates too, especially in defense (look at Ducks 2007 with Niedermayer one of the best defender all time plus we had Pronger and a good goalie), thats the issue what EDM and BUF have. EDM have one good year of Talbot and was suddently in the playoffs, but they has no defense. Buffalo has a losing culture (O'Reilly said that shortly before he got traded...) and no good goalie since Miller. Toronto has also a but defense. New Jersey has with Hischier and Hughes two young players who are still in their development as the two of the Rangers too, not every Elite Player start as Crosby with 100 points... its too early to judge this teams.

even a Joe Thornton started with only 7 (!!!) points in 55 games his NHL career...

it helps you if you have some top 5 picks. so, only 8 games to play, the best is to lose it all. and give some other players a shot (Curran, Dostal, Perreault, Tracey, Groulx ect.), 2-3 games for them to see where they have deficits and let them improve on them.

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1 hour ago, Spike1981 said:

ah I wanted change it to top 5 because STL, but I forgot it. ok Bruins, Ducks and Detroit were the only teams in the last 15 years without a top 5 pick.

of course its not ONLY the elite player, but you (almost) must have at least one of them to win the Cup. you need a good goalie and teammates too, especially in defense (look at Ducks 2007 with Niedermayer one of the best defender all time plus we had Pronger and a good goalie), thats the issue what EDM and BUF have. EDM have one good year of Talbot and was suddently in the playoffs, but they has no defense. Buffalo has a losing culture (O'Reilly said that shortly before he got traded...) and no good goalie since Miller. Toronto has also a but defense. New Jersey has with Hischier and Hughes two young players who are still in their development as the two of the Rangers too, not every Elite Player start as Crosby with 100 points... its too early to judge this teams.

even a Joe Thornton started with only 7 (!!!) points in 55 games his NHL career...

it helps you if you have some top 5 picks. so, only 8 games to play, the best is to lose it all. and give some other players a shot (Curran, Dostal, Perreault, Tracey, Groulx ect.), 2-3 games for them to see where they have deficits and let them improve on them.

Why Curran? If you're going to bring up Gulls defenders to let them work on their deficiencies and improve (and to tank games), how about Mahura, Guhle, or Benoit? Curran is 31 and has never played an NHL game. Is that the guy you want to put time and energy into developing?

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8 hours ago, Spike1981 said:

ah I wanted change it to top 5 because STL, but I forgot it. ok Bruins, Ducks and Detroit were the only teams in the last 15 years without a top 5 pick.

 

of course its not ONLY the elite player, but you (almost) must have at least one of them to win the Cup. you need a good goalie and teammates too, especially in defense (look at Ducks 2007 with Niedermayer one of the best defender all time plus we had Pronger and a good goalie), thats the issue what EDM and BUF have. EDM have one good year of Talbot and was suddently in the playoffs, but they has no defense. Buffalo has a losing culture (O'Reilly said that shortly before he got traded...) and no good goalie since Miller. Toronto has also a but defense. New Jersey has with Hischier and Hughes two young players who are still in their development as the two of the Rangers too, not every Elite Player start as Crosby with 100 points... its too early to judge this teams.

even a Joe Thornton started with only 7 (!!!) points in 55 games his NHL career...

it helps you if you have some top 5 picks. so, only 8 games to play, the best is to lose it all. and give some other players a shot (Curran, Dostal, Perreault, Tracey, Groulx ect.), 2-3 games for them to see where they have deficits and let them improve on them.

Uh Bobby Ryan says hello. We won the cup without him even though he was chosen 2nd overall...

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1 hour ago, g20topdogg said:

Uh Bobby Ryan says hello. We won the cup without him even though he was chosen 2nd overall...

he not played in the NHL-season 2006-2007 thats why I don't count him.

8 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

Why Curran? If you're going to bring up Gulls defenders to let them work on their deficiencies and improve (and to tank games), how about Mahura, Guhle, or Benoit? Curran is 31 and has never played an NHL game. Is that the guy you want to put time and energy into developing?

I thought about it to write his name or not. he was nice in Sweden (MVP?), why you pay him 1 mio (no two-way) and never let him play... maybe he has trade value...

yes of course, Mahura, Guhle and Benoit you can also test in the NHL. I can't understand why the only players we take from the AHL are 25+...  we should test the kids to make a look what we have in the pipeline. Steel and Larsson are borderliner or not NHL worthy. Comtois scores but shows limited play, Terry try too much (what is not bad if he learns how to do better) but he is a turnover machine, Jones some good, some bad plays and bad penalties. I would like to see what the others shows us.

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Looking at upcoming FAs. 
Mike Reilly and Phillip Danault stand out as some decent guys that could be targets. 
I don’t think Reilley works logistically, but he’s solid. Both guys are 28, but if you’re losing Rico or something. Danault is a guy I’m taking a long look at. Really solid two-way guy. Could slot in on the second or third line and hopefully give some defensive stability. 

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On 5/1/2021 at 11:09 AM, FanSince1993 said:

I can't wait when S. Steel and J. Larsson will sign some professional contracts in Europe.

I never realized Steel was so bad...

 

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On 5/8/2021 at 5:32 PM, hoxxey said:

I never realized Steel was so bad...

 

Yea Steel was the one guy that most disappointed me this year.

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On 5/13/2021 at 7:15 PM, WolfgangDuck said:

Yea Steel was the one guy that most disappointed me this year.

Same.  Time to cut bait.  I always condier him on Jones as "partners" because of their being picked close to each other, but Jones definitely fits a role and has shown continuous improvement, whereas Steel has floundered.

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On 5/19/2021 at 8:59 AM, gotchabari said:

Same.  Time to cut bait.  I always condier him on Jones as "partners" because of their being picked close to each other, but Jones definitely fits a role and has shown continuous improvement, whereas Steel has floundered.

I think it's time for the coach and staff to just come to terms with who Steel is turning out to be. Which sucks as a 1st rounder, but it happens. he's not useless, but he's not top-6 material. At least not yet. As a personal rule I'm trying to implement to myself...I think giving players till 25 to really show who they can be is a good place to have the line.

Having said that....I'm not gonna be all upset if he gets traded or goes to Seattle lol

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Lol I know the dislike for steel but I believe he's "scored" more than Jones to this point in their careers. But they're still young, I think if he doesn't show anything next year then we probably need to trade him. 

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23 hours ago, g20topdogg said:

Lol I know the dislike for steel but I believe he's "scored" more than Jones to this point in their careers. But they're still young, I think if he doesn't show anything next year then we probably need to trade him. 

True, but that's not as much his role.  Although this season, while finding his role, he did score one more goal than Steel.

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3 hours ago, gotchabari said:

True, but that's not as much his role.  Although this season, while finding his role, he did score one more goal than Steel.

all i know is that if someone gave me the choice about which player to keep going forward after this season, it'd be jones.  he did things that seemed positive for the team, seemed to get better as the season went along, and he seemed to stay relatively healthy/able to skate.  other than that, though, i don't have the stat skills to properly moneyball the two against each other.

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1 hour ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

I want to envision this offseason having both McDavid and Eichel being traded now!

Gibson for Draisitle!! Dostal is ready, right? Stolarz looks fine haha

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20 hours ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

I want to envision this offseason having both McDavid and Eichel being traded now!

According to the Website Fourth Period....Ducks are name one of the spots To Land Eichel.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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1 hour ago, MooseDuck said:

According to the Website Fourth Period....Ducks are name one of the spots To Land Eichel.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

Big time damaged goods. Not interested unless the price to get him drops significantly.

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7 minutes ago, dukitup said:

Big time damaged goods. Not interested unless the price to get him drops significantly.

Agree. Long injury history. Last season he scored 2 goals in 18 games. Is that what we'll pay $10 mil per season? No, thank you. Plus, one more surgery is coming, and nobody knows outcome of it,

Sabres GM: Jack Eichel wants surgery never performed on NHL player - The Athletic

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14 minutes ago, dukitup said:

Big time damaged goods. Not interested unless the price to get him drops significantly.

That is issue some Ducks Fans brought up on line which I can agree. Trading for Sam Reinhart can be better then Jack.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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I dunno...i think draisitle is gonna be asking for a trade lol...

I mean just look at that face.... he's thinking "I hate this team, why am I on this team...what am I doing here..."

 

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