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32 minutes ago, Sexlaf15 said:

If you look at Colorado, it was almost 1 move that turned the franchise around, the Duchene trade

It's the Eric Lindros trade all over again....or even the Patrick Roy trade! It's amazing how that franchise has these one BIG trades every decade or whatever that have crazy implications.

Yeah, I understand why you don't trust Bob to do it. I think bob did well to keep the team competitive after already being competitive. At one point recently I believe the Ducks were 3rd in playoff wins during the salary cap era? But just couldn't get it over the hump (slightly not on him, IMO, Kesler being nixed in 2014, Miller not available till 2018, Hiller's injury 2011, Hawks being over the cap in 2015...but still under his watch so he's still responsible) and now he needs to rebuild, which, to be fair, he's never done.

36 minutes ago, ike8228 said:

We are due for a superstar to emerge/be drafted.

I sure hope so!!

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3 minutes ago, Jasoaks said:

It's the Eric Lindros trade all over again....or even the Patrick Roy trade! It's amazing how that franchise has these one BIG trades every decade or whatever that have crazy implications.

Yeah, I understand why you don't trust Bob to do it. I think bob did well to keep the team competitive after already being competitive. At one point recently I believe the Ducks were 3rd in playoff wins during the salary cap era? But just couldn't get it over the hump (slightly not on him, IMO, Kesler being nixed in 2014, Miller not available till 2018, Hiller's injury 2011, Hawks being over the cap in 2015...but still under his watch so he's still responsible) and now he needs to rebuild, which, to be fair, he's never done.

I sure hope so!!

I give Bob a lot of credit for how good this team was for the better part of a decade. I’m not happy with how he consistently failed to push the team over the edge at the deadline, but this team was damn good for a long time. I just think hopelessly clawing at relevancy when the writing on the wall has extended this teams rebuild by years. 

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5 hours ago, Sexlaf15 said:

So crazy how much better ran through Kings are than the Ducks. Arvidsson as much as I hate him is such a good pick up. Had a down year, mostly unlucky, you bank on him returning to form. The Ducks repeatedly fail to make moves like this. Feels like Kesler was the last trade that made this team better. 

We make moves like this all the time.  Except when we do, we call it dumpster diving.  We NEVER give the possibility that the person had an off year.  It's just that Bob got him off a junk heap after he washed up.

 

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it's kind of a weird trade before the ED, but then i guess they don't have a lot they want to protect on their team....

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10 hours ago, FanSince1993 said:

As I said before, I have doubts about Eichel and his long injury history. If he was within $5-7 mil range, I would take a risk, but $10 mil is a way too much. Unless Buffalo agrees to take on some Ducks bad contracts, like Fowler or Gibson.

I would not mind IF Buffalo retains at least 50 Percent of Eichel's Contract IF our Ducks make the Trade.

DuckPride 4ever

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4 hours ago, Sexlaf15 said:

Kings got 2 cups out of Their core. It’s the price of competing and winning, you’ll bVe those left over cap hits. 
Their prospect pool is better, they’ve done better job trading for assets, and have traded for guys that seem good on paper. The Ducks haven’t really done any of that. They’ve drafted well at their spots, but haven’t really made any moves to signal a rebuild or for young assets. Going into this draft with 1 first rounder, feels like a failure. Maybe I’m wrong, but I feel a lot of jealousy. Watching a team navigate a rebuild and do all the things right on paper, while your team is floating, rudderless for years 

I'm pretty sure those contacts were signed after the cup wins.

Kings are garbage. And always will be lol. 

But seriously, we were the better team overall for the past decade + since our cup win, except for their 2 runs. What have they even done lately? Everyone in the media was always saying how they need to rebuild but they kept putting it off. So what? They're a better team than us because they sucked so long? Lol I'd rather be us. 

We haven't been nearly as bad as they have. Besides, the Oilers are now great because they've been at the bottom of the dumpster burning for almost a decade. What's so great about that? So while we were one of the most consistent teams in the league in terms of making the playoffs other teams wallowed in the shadows getting picks. It was us and the hawks for a few years as to the real cup finals. Kings are trash. 

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1 hour ago, gotchabari said:

We make moves like this all the time.  Except when we do, we call it dumpster diving.  We NEVER give the possibility that the person had an off year.  It's just that Bob got him off a junk heap after he washed up.

 

Sure people on the board are harsh, but I don’t think the Ducks have added a player at Arvidsson’s quality in awhile. He’s essentially equal to Rakell at this point. Arvidsson doesn’t put the Ducks over, but you take a chance on a guy who scored 30 goals essentially 3 times. He can be a secondary guy added to a bunch of prospects on the edge of stepping up, he’s also young enough to not need to HAVE to have the team win this season. I think the biggest issue with the Ducks is they trade for guys roughly equal to what they gave up and then discard them for whatever reason ie Sprong, Heinen, even Henrique, Djoos, Milano. Most of which I think were decent moves at the time. And by advanced metrics, Arvidsson still plays well. 

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Let say IF our Ducks Decide not to pursue Eichel...who is best alt option....?

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MooseDuck

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On 7/2/2021 at 2:53 PM, MooseDuck said:

Let say IF our Ducks Decide not to pursue Eichel...who is best alt option....?

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MooseDuck

Laine. Then him and Teemu can sweet talk Barkov in coming to Anaheim --> profit. 

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On 7/2/2021 at 5:53 AM, MooseDuck said:

Let say IF our Ducks Decide not to pursue Eichel...who is best alt option....?

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

Reinhart. And if they can’t get either Eichel or Reinhart, they should accept that this next season will be just another development season for Zegras and then grab a veteran C to take pressure off of him. Maybe a Derek Stepan in UFA or see if Tampa would give up an asset for the Ducks to take Tyler Johnson’s contract off their cap. Maybe both.  A Johnson-Stepan-Rakell line could at least help to keep the wolves at bay for another season. If the plan is to not acquire a high quality C and just continue the rebuild with draft picks and low level trades, they’ll desperately need to protect Zegras with another legitimate scoring line of some kind.

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57 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

Reinhart. And if they can’t get either Eichel or Reinhart, they should accept that this next season will be just another development season for Zegras and then grab a veteran C to take pressure off of him. Maybe a Derek Stepan in UFA or see if Tampa would give up an asset for the Ducks to take Tyler Johnson’s contract off their cap. Maybe both.  A Johnson-Stepan-Rakell line could at least help to keep the wolves at bay for another season. If the plan is to not acquire a high quality C and just continue the rebuild with draft picks and low level trades, they’ll desperately need to protect Zegras with another legitimate scoring line of some kind.

What do you think a Reinhart ask is? Knowing buffalo is looking for 4 pieces all equivalent of 1st-rounder quality....what are we giving up for Reinhart? Id have to assume that our 3rd/Z/Drysdale/Gibson can't be on the table...

Man, Buffalo could REALLY be set if they do the Eichel/Reinhart trade right and with their #1 pick...

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6 hours ago, Jasoaks said:

What do you think a Reinhart ask is? Knowing buffalo is looking for 4 pieces all equivalent of 1st-rounder quality....what are we giving up for Reinhart? Id have to assume that our 3rd/Z/Drysdale/Gibson can't be on the table...

Man, Buffalo could REALLY be set if they do the Eichel/Reinhart trade right and with their #1 pick...

IT would be Big Gamble for Buffalo IF they do the Eichel/Reinhart Trade.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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8 hours ago, Jasoaks said:

What do you think a Reinhart ask is? Knowing buffalo is looking for 4 pieces all equivalent of 1st-rounder quality....what are we giving up for Reinhart? Id have to assume that our 3rd/Z/Drysdale/Gibson can't be on the table...

Man, Buffalo could REALLY be set if they do the Eichel/Reinhart trade right and with their #1 pick...

I don’t actually think Reinhart gets traded this summer unless it’s a substantial overpay. I think hiring Granato as head coach keeps Reinhart motivated and engaged just a bit longer in Buffalo. He played great after Granato moved him to the top line center spot.

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18 hours ago, Jasoaks said:

What do you think a Reinhart ask is? Knowing buffalo is looking for 4 pieces all equivalent of 1st-rounder quality....what are we giving up for Reinhart? Id have to assume that our 3rd/Z/Drysdale/Gibson can't be on the table...

Man, Buffalo could REALLY be set if they do the Eichel/Reinhart trade right and with their #1 pick...

Let them ask all they want. I still think the return for Eichel will be quite a disappointment as long as there's no certainty regarding his injury. If there were such great offers he'd be gone already. I'd rather go after Reinhart or let the suck continue for one more season and draft a stud prospect next year. Meanwhile BM should try to get Laine. 

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11 hours ago, DucksFan_08 said:

Let them ask all they want. I still think the return for Eichel will be quite a disappointment as long as there's no certainty regarding his injury. If there were such great offers he'd be gone already. I'd rather go after Reinhart or let the suck continue for one more season and draft a stud prospect next year. Meanwhile BM should try to get Laine. 

at this point, both Eichel and Buff should want to wait for a trade until next season, after his neck is cleared up.  if he's healthy, better teams will want him, and they'll be paying full price (whatever that is under the new cap), AND they may have some extra cap space due to cap shed in the ED and/or LTIR that'll really only be helpful after the season starts.  

the only thing working against the wait and see strategy is that Eichel wants surgery and Buff wants something else... that's never going to go Buff's way, and if the whole thing turns into a pile of crud, the league and insurance will mop up the loss so that players don't feel like they have to defend too much their choices about their bodies.  Buff would lose out on the talent return that in fairer world they could have expected for a player like Eichel, but salary and cap wise, i don't think anyone will want them to carry that unlucky burden for too long.  the league and the player's union is better off with no team falling too far behind.  even the ducks got the Despres contract special-cased, and you hear about similar things going on about the league now and again.

i think the rumors about a trade happening in the next 3 days or whatever (started weeks ago) were Buff's best effort to move a bad asset off their books asap.  you can't blame them for trying (though you can certainly add that to your list of evidence on how credible the info was).  i'm actually happy for everyone that they seem to be resorting to the wait and see approach - that's probably the fairest outcome for everyone involved.  and, i can't wish that kind of immense misfortune on any acquiring team - just too easy for something like that to come back and bite the Ducks in the toosh.

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Was just reading this article in the Athletic, and the authors seem to think that it wouldn't be that difficult to acquire Evgeny Kuznetsov from Washington. From a Ducks perspective, it sounds like the deal could be something like Henrique + 2nd + 3rd (+ maybe a mid-level prospect like Tracey) to get it done. Which would be awesome since it would only add about $2M to the Ducks' cap and wouldn't require moving any pieces that we currently think of as critical to the rebuild. I know Bob doesn't like Russians and Kuznetsov certainly has had his troubles recently, but if there was ever a reclamation project to take on, Kuznetsov may be it. And if it doesn't work out, he probably just goes back to Russia and his cap hit comes off the books. But if it DOES work out, he's still a 60-65+ point center with elite playmaking ability who could keep the hounds away from Zegras for the next 1-2 seasons. Center depth next season could be Kuznetsov-Zegras-Getzlaf-Lundestrom, which would be pretty fun to watch, and the power play would get an instant boost from the addition of an elite playmaker.

If the price is as low as they say it is, would you chase Kuznetsov?    

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24 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

Was just reading this article in the Athletic, and the authors seem to think that it wouldn't be that difficult to acquire Evgeny Kuznetsov from Washington. From a Ducks perspective, it sounds like the deal could be something like Henrique + 2nd + 3rd (+ maybe a mid-level prospect like Tracey) to get it done. Which would be awesome since it would only add about $2M to the Ducks' cap and wouldn't require moving any pieces that we currently think of as critical to the rebuild. I know Bob doesn't like Russians and Kuznetsov certainly has had his troubles recently, but if there was ever a reclamation project to take on, Kuznetsov may be it. And if it doesn't work out, he probably just goes back to Russia and his cap hit comes off the books. But if it DOES work out, he's still a 60-65+ point center with elite playmaking ability who could keep the hounds away from Zegras for the next 1-2 seasons. Center depth next season could be Kuznetsov-Zegras-Getzlaf-Lundestrom, which would be pretty fun to watch, and the power play would get an instant boost from the addition of an elite playmaker.

If the price is as low as they say it is, would you chase Kuznetsov?    

is the price the same after the ED?

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22 minutes ago, Fisix said:

is the price the same after the ED?

For purposes of my inquiry, let's say the trade could happen after the ED and Rico is not a member of the Kraken by then. Otherwise we're getting into 4D chess and the answers get too complicated.

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43 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

If the price is as low as they say it is, would you chase Kuznetsov?    

He just turned 29, has 4 more years at 7.8M per year with a M-NTC. I don't really see his motivation for coming here when he's in his prime and this team finished next to last. Also, as you said, he's basically a reclamation project that would be coming to a dysfunctional (as it appears) team with sketchy coaching and a GM that doesn't appear to trust Russians. What could go wrong?LOL. 

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30 minutes ago, perry_mvp said:

He just turned 29, has 4 more years at 7.8M per year with a M-NTC. I don't really see his motivation for coming here when he's in his prime and this team finished next to last. Also, as you said, he's basically a reclamation project that would be coming to a dysfunctional (as it appears) team with sketchy coaching and a GM that doesn't appear to trust Russians. What could go wrong?LOL. 

A few things on this: (1) Kuznetsov has two kids (6 and 2, I think) and he already has a Cup, so his motivations later in his career may not be just about chasing another Cup with a contender. And the OC isn't a terrible place to raise a family, especially if you're a wealthy pro athlete, so I could definitely see a fit there for Kuz, despite the team being near the basement last season. (2) His cap hit is $7.8M, but if they were to do a trade after the first day of the 2021-22 season (when he's due a $5M signing bonus) then his remaining salary is only $24M for the next four seasons. We definitely have the cap space for $7.8M and the budget for $6M/season for a 60-65+ pt top line C, especially if we are also able to lose Rico's $5.8M/season. (3) He does have a 15-team NTC, but I'm sure Washington would much prefer to deposit him in the Western Conference than somewhere in the East. If Anaheim isn't on his NTC list, I would think that the Ducks could become a front-runner pretty easily for him if they are interested considering there probably won't be a lot of Western teams he can be traded to that can also afford his cap hit.

The biggest hurdle is likely a team culture issue. As talented as he is, Kuznetsov does not have a reputation as being a night-in/night-out guy. He has another gear in the playoffs, but he takes shifts and periods off during the regular season, and that may not be what the team wants their young guys to be around given what Eakins is allegedly trying to do with this team's work ethic. Though, I'd argue that Getzlaf and Perry often played at half speed for the first half of the season before the annual January push for the playoffs under Carlyle 1.0, so maybe the team won't notice as long as Kuznetsov puts up 60 points and takes the pressure off of Zegras.

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1 hour ago, gorbachav5 said:

I don't think the Ducks can afford to bring in a guy who has motivation issues.  They have a ton of kids who need veterans to be good role models, and a guy who takes shifts/nights off isn't it. I doubt being on a bad team with little shot at the postseason is going to help get Kuznetsov motivated more often.

Kuznetsov is a guy you can bring onto a successful or close-to-successful team that already has a ton of veteran leadership and just needs a little bit of extra skill to get them to that next level.  If the Kings take the next step this season, I could see them bring in a guy like Kuznetsov.  

The problem with this is that a successful or close-to-successful team that already has a ton of veteran leadership doesn't have $7.8M in cap space for the next four seasons.

I would also argue that Kuznetsov as a 1C on this team makes the Ducks a playoff team next season, and that there's no need to try to make him a role model as long as the Ducks still have Getzlaf, Silfverberg, Lindholm, Fowler, Manson, etc. as their veterans. And frankly, outside of Zegras, Drysdale, Comtois, whoever we likely get at #3 overall, and maybe Terry, if the rest of the kids can't find the motivation within themselves to be every shift players, then get them the hell outta here, because they're simply not talented enough to be useful NHLers if they're taking shifts off. They're barely 3rd line/3rd pairing players as it is, and virtually all of them can be replaced if another guy is outworking them.

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4 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

Center depth next season could be Kuznetsov-Zegras-Getzlaf-Lundestrom, which would be pretty fun to watch, and the power play would get an instant boost from the addition of an elite playmaker.   

Most importantly, we'd be the only team in the league where 75% of our centers have a Z in their name.

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40 minutes ago, gotchabari said:

Most importantly, we'd be the only team in the league where 75% of our centers have a Z in their name.

In that case, let's just bring back Agozzino as the 4C!!

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maybe we get to keep our other Russian and they click.  i think as long as Hank goes, we can swing it, and 4 years isn't too long, especially since we're in a rebuild.  

a 60 point player would be nice to have in the fold.  i just don't want another Haglin.   

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8 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

A few things on this: (1) Kuznetsov has two kids (6 and 2, I think) and he already has a Cup, so his motivations later in his career may not be just about chasing another Cup with a contender. And the OC isn't a terrible place to raise a family, especially if you're a wealthy pro athlete, so I could definitely see a fit there for Kuz, despite the team being near the basement last season. (2) His cap hit is $7.8M, but if they were to do a trade after the first day of the 2021-22 season (when he's due a $5M signing bonus) then his remaining salary is only $24M for the next four seasons. We definitely have the cap space for $7.8M and the budget for $6M/season for a 60-65+ pt top line C, especially if we are also able to lose Rico's $5.8M/season. (3) He does have a 15-team NTC, but I'm sure Washington would much prefer to deposit him in the Western Conference than somewhere in the East. If Anaheim isn't on his NTC list, I would think that the Ducks could become a front-runner pretty easily for him if they are interested considering there probably won't be a lot of Western teams he can be traded to that can also afford his cap hit.

The biggest hurdle is likely a team culture issue. As talented as he is, Kuznetsov does not have a reputation as being a night-in/night-out guy. He has another gear in the playoffs, but he takes shifts and periods off during the regular season, and that may not be what the team wants their young guys to be around given what Eakins is allegedly trying to do with this team's work ethic. Though, I'd argue that Getzlaf and Perry often played at half speed for the first half of the season before the annual January push for the playoffs under Carlyle 1.0, so maybe the team won't notice as long as Kuznetsov puts up 60 points and takes the pressure off of Zegras.

I don't think that Murray is touching Kuznetsov with a 30 meter pole. He's a good player when he tries but Murray was around during the Federov saga (Burke traded Federov because he didn't want young Getzlaf and Perry around him). So, it seems unlikely that he'll bring in unmotivated Russian while hopeful cornerstone players are developing and learning how to be pros. Plus, it was just under two years ago that Kuznetsov was suspended from international play because he tested positive for booger sugar. Now, he seems to be on the trade block and sounds like he's worn out his welcome in Washington. He's got so many GMBM red flags so I can't see a trade happening even if it's a far lower price than say an Eichel or Reinhart.

Plus, it's unfortunate that he's been a good playoff performer because we won't get a chance to see that from him if he's on this Ducks team :(

Edited by BombaysTripleDeke
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I wouldn't mind BM trying to get Drouin and/or signing Galchenyuk. Also, for the sake of nostalgia, bring Perry and BR back. It could be a fun season after all...lol

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15 hours ago, perry_mvp said:

He just turned 29, has 4 more years at 7.8M per year with a M-NTC. I don't really see his motivation for coming here when he's in his prime and this team finished next to last. Also, as you said, he's basically a reclamation project that would be coming to a dysfunctional (as it appears) team with sketchy coaching and a GM that doesn't appear to trust Russians. What could go wrong?LOL. 

Four more years at 7.8 mil is a lot of money for a reclamation project. Then I'd rather have BM looking into Jonathan Drouin should he return to the game. I think he has 2 more years at 5.5 mil. 

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19 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

Was just reading this article in the Athletic, and the authors seem to think that it wouldn't be that difficult to acquire Evgeny Kuznetsov from Washington. From a Ducks perspective, it sounds like the deal could be something like Henrique + 2nd + 3rd (+ maybe a mid-level prospect like Tracey) to get it done. Which would be awesome since it would only add about $2M to the Ducks' cap and wouldn't require moving any pieces that we currently think of as critical to the rebuild. I know Bob doesn't like Russians and Kuznetsov certainly has had his troubles recently, but if there was ever a reclamation project to take on, Kuznetsov may be it. And if it doesn't work out, he probably just goes back to Russia and his cap hit comes off the books. But if it DOES work out, he's still a 60-65+ point center with elite playmaking ability who could keep the hounds away from Zegras for the next 1-2 seasons. Center depth next season could be Kuznetsov-Zegras-Getzlaf-Lundestrom, which would be pretty fun to watch, and the power play would get an instant boost from the addition of an elite playmaker.

If the price is as low as they say it is, would you chase Kuznetsov?    

Great Questions.....imho Ducks should take a look at Kuznetsov even though Bob has issues with Russians.

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I’ll pass on Kuznetsov. Age doesn’t really fit the timeline that the Ducks are on and he’s been a trouble child. Just trade for Eichel or draft well. 

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12 hours ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

I don't think that Murray is touching Kuznetsov with a 30 meter pole. He's a good player when he tries but Murray was around during the Federov saga (Burke traded Federov because he didn't want young Getzlaf and Perry around him). So, it seems unlikely that he'll bring in unmotivated Russian while hopeful cornerstone players are developing and learning how to be pros. Plus, it was just under two years ago that Kuznetsov was suspended from international play because he tested positive for booger sugar. Now, he seems to be on the trade block and sounds like he's worn out his welcome in Washington. He's got so many GMBM red flags so I can't see a trade happening even if it's a far lower price than say an Eichel or Reinhart.

Plus, it's unfortunate that he's been a good playoff performer because we won't get a chance to see that from him if he's on this Ducks team :(

He's not just a good player, he's a great player. One of the top-20 players in the league IMO. I'm also a bit surprised to see everyone so down on his occasional lack of effort during the regular season grind. It's like ya'all have completely forgotten that the Ducks didn't even try playing hockey at a high level until January for most of the Ducks run with Getzlaf, Perry, and Selanne as our team leaders. I also would give Kuznetsov the benefit of the doubt this past season (when he was still on pace for a 58 pt season) due to the well-known issues that Laviolette tends to have with players. Lavs is a great coach, but he absolutely grinds on some players and wears out his welcome. He's like the polar opposite of a Barry Trotz, so it's possible that going from Trotz to Lavs was a hard transition for Kuznetsov, who seems to need some creative space that probably doesn't jive well with Lavs' systems.

1 hour ago, gorbachav5 said:

They don't have the space to take him on like a free agent, no.  Again, unless you're a team like the Kings ready to take that next step, and even then, they'd be sending salary back in return.  But the actual answer might be that a team can't make that deal and Washington is stuck with him unless they want to take 50 cents on the dollar.

As for your second paragraph, the Ducks simply don't have a strong leader outside of Getzlaf.  Not that I see.  They're good players and those guys all work hard, but Silf Lindholm, and Manson have all spent significant time out the lineup.  And the whole "find motivation within yourself" thing just doesn't work for some guys.  Some people, in all walks of life, are externally motivated.  They tend to work hard when they see others working hard and don't want to let them down.  A guy in the locker room who slacks off might provide them an excuse for their own lazy tendencies.  Plus these guys are all still solidifying their habits and impressions of the NHL level.  If what you're saying in the bolded is true, then leadership and setting an example are irrelevant - hockey players are who they are and they'll work hard or not regardless of who is showing them the ropes.  I don't think that's entirely true.  I think a young team needs a good, hard-working coach, and good, hard-working veterans to get them going in the right direction.  A lackadaisical, selfish player could lead some guys astray, or hinder their development.

I agree with your sentiment when it comes to highly skilled players. You don't want Zegras, Drysdale or Comtois developing bad work ethics because you rely on those guys to take the team to the next level. But guys like Steel, Jones, Lundestrom, and Volkov? They're grinders. 3rd and 4th liners. Easily replaceable by someone who is willing to compete harder. Their motivation to work hard should be based on their desire to stay in the lineup, or for that matter on an NHL roster, not on what the #1C is doing. Because they're basically a dime a dozen in this league and if their work ethic slips, it's a short bus ride to San Diego.

I'd also disagree about Silf missing significant time and it impacting his ability to be a leader. He didn't miss a game this past season (47 straight games on a bad hip) before opting for surgery, which presumably happened only because the Ducks went into full tank mode. He also missed 5 games last season (including one for the birth of his child), but no more than 3 straight games for any particular ailment. The season before that he missed 8 games, but again that was a few games here and a couple games there, not 8 straight. He's actually been quite a warrior and a good role model, especially considering the pain he was apparently playing through and the fact that he plays basically the hardest minutes against the opponents' best forwards.

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