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19 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

He's not just a good player, he's a great player. One of the top-20 players in the league IMO. I'm also a bit surprised to see everyone so down on his occasional lack of effort during the regular season grind. It's like ya'all have completely forgotten that the Ducks didn't even try playing hockey at a high level until January for most of the Ducks run with Getzlaf, Perry, and Selanne as our team leaders. I also would give Kuznetsov the benefit of the doubt this past season (when he was still on pace for a 58 pt season) due to the well-known issues that Laviolette tends to have with players. Lavs is a great coach, but he absolutely grinds on some players and wears out his welcome. He's like the polar opposite of a Barry Trotz, so it's possible that going from Trotz to Lavs was a hard transition for Kuznetsov, who seems to need some creative space that probably doesn't jive well with Lavs' systems.

I don't think anyone here has a problem with his talent or his compete level, it's just that he would be instantly put in the spotlight and be expected to produce. If he goes through a down stretch of not doing anything then the pitchforks and torches will come out for BM. I think there was a level of forgiveness from the fans when Perry, Getz or Selanne weren't playing at a high level but the new guy with a 7.8M cap hit? Would he thrive in a Dallas Eakins/ Bob Murray system? That's the problem.

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11 minutes ago, perry_mvp said:

I don't think anyone here has a problem with his talent or his compete level, it's just that he would be instantly put in the spotlight and be expected to produce. If he goes through a down stretch of not doing anything then the pitchforks and torches will come out for BM. I think there was a level of forgiveness from the fans when Perry, Getz or Selanne weren't playing at a high level but the new guy with a 7.8M cap hit? Would he thrive in a Dallas Eakins/ Bob Murray system? That's the problem.

I got the sense from the comments above that a lot of people have issues with his compete level. And the pitchforks and torches are already out for GMBM, so I don't see much changing there.

As for fitting into the system, you're exactly right - that's the big question mark. However, both Ward and Brown have very recently coached high level offensive talents (like Gaudreau and Elias Pettersson) so I would expect the coaching staff could figure out how to utilize Kuzentsov's talents as well. I wouldn't be surprised if Eakins (a defensive coach) turns the forwards over to Ward and Brown in the same way Boudreau handed the defense over to Yawney.

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7 hours ago, DucksFan_08 said:

Four more years at 7.8 mil is a lot of money for a reclamation project. Then I'd rather have BM looking into Jonathan Drouin should he return to the game. I think he has 2 more years at 5.5 mil. 

Drouin is an interesting idea, although no one really knows what's going on with him and its a HUGE red flag that he didn't find a way to join the team for the playoffs. He also only scored 2 goals this past season in 44 games, which is another red flag.

But speaking of the Habs, Kotkaniemi was scratched for both game 4 and game 5 of the SCF. For a former 3rd overall pick, that's gotta sting. I wonder if he'll be on the block this season. He doesn't look like he'll ever be a 1C, and they certainly don't need him to be anymore with the emergence of Suzuki, but IMO he certainly could be a solid 2C down the road. Any takers for Kotkaniemi? I worry that if Beniers doesn't fall to us, our center depth remains a giant void, both now and in the future, that will prevent this team from ever being a contender.

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26 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

Drouin is an interesting idea, although no one really knows what's going on with him and its a HUGE red flag that he didn't find a way to join the team for the playoffs. He also only scored 2 goals this past season in 44 games, which is another red flag.

But speaking of the Habs, Kotkaniemi was scratched for both game 4 and game 5 of the SCF. For a former 3rd overall pick, that's gotta sting. I wonder if he'll be on the block this season. He doesn't look like he'll ever be a 1C, and they certainly don't need him to be anymore with the emergence of Suzuki, but IMO he certainly could be a solid 2C down the road. Any takers for Kotkaniemi? I worry that if Beniers doesn't fall to us, our center depth remains a giant void, both now and in the future, that will prevent this team from ever being a contender.

From everything that I've read, the pressure from the Montreal press and fans are the problem with Drouin. It got to him mentally so he asked for a leave of absence. Kotkaniemi was scratched, according to the head coach, for better line matching against Tampa. Tatar was also scratched for most of the playoffs. I really don't think there's any problem with Drouin or Kotkaniemi other than the pressure of being in Montreal. I would be happy with either or both and Galchenyuk who is a UFA.

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15 hours ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

I don't think that Murray is touching Kuznetsov with a 30 meter pole. He's a good player when he tries but Murray was around during the Federov saga (Burke traded Federov because he didn't want young Getzlaf and Perry around him). So, it seems unlikely that he'll bring in unmotivated Russian while hopeful cornerstone players are developing and learning how to be pros. Plus, it was just under two years ago that Kuznetsov was suspended from international play because he tested positive for booger sugar. Now, he seems to be on the trade block and sounds like he's worn out his welcome in Washington. He's got so many GMBM red flags so I can't see a trade happening even if it's a far lower price than say an Eichel or Reinhart.

Plus, it's unfortunate that he's been a good playoff performer because we won't get a chance to see that from him if he's on this Ducks team :(

I'm not saying we should trade for him, but I think we are being naïve if we think that there are no players on the Ducks that use recreational drugs. I have no problem with it to be honest, it's not like that is performance enhancing. They shouldn't even be testing for this stuff anymore IMO.

Although if anyone watched Kucherov's post-game presser last night that might be a good argument against it. Lol.

Edited by nieder
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55 minutes ago, perry_mvp said:

From everything that I've read, the pressure from the Montreal press and fans are the problem with Drouin. It got to him mentally so he asked for a leave of absence. Kotkaniemi was scratched, according to the head coach, for better line matching against Tampa. Tatar was also scratched for most of the playoffs. I really don't think there's any problem with Drouin or Kotkaniemi other than the pressure of being in Montreal. I would be happy with either or both and Galchenyuk who is a UFA.

Plausible. But he also basically walked out on Tampa and forced a trade from there too. Given his history, it sure seems like there is more to it than just fan/media pressure.

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1 hour ago, perry_mvp said:

From everything that I've read, the pressure from the Montreal press and fans are the problem with Drouin. It got to him mentally so he asked for a leave of absence. Kotkaniemi was scratched, according to the head coach, for better line matching against Tampa. Tatar was also scratched for most of the playoffs. I really don't think there's any problem with Drouin or Kotkaniemi other than the pressure of being in Montreal. I would be happy with either or both and Galchenyuk who is a UFA.

no vote on Drouin.

yes vote on Kotkaniemi.

yes vote on Galchenyuk, but worried about price.

did not know about nose candy being a problem with Kuznetsov.  if it's bad enough that it reaches the press, then it's bad enough to keep him off the team.  that turns him into a no for me, at the stated cost.   

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4 minutes ago, Fisix said:

no vote on Drouin.

yes vote on Kotkaniemi.

yes vote on Galchenyuk, but worried about price.

did not know about nose candy being a problem with Kuznetsov.  if it's bad enough that it reaches the press, then it's bad enough to keep him off the team.  that turns him into a no for me, at the stated cost.   

He's actually been suspended for four years from international play because of his positive test at an IIHF event... which may actually be a check mark in the "yes" column since he wouldn't miss any time or risk injury in the Olympics next season (if the NHL goes). :lol:

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13 minutes ago, nieder said:

I'm not saying we should trade for him, but I think we are being naïve if we think that there are no players on the Ducks that use recreational drugs. I have no problem with it to be honest, it's not like that is performance enhancing. They shouldn't even be testing for this stuff anymore IMO.

Although if anyone watched Kucherov's post-game presser last night that might be a good argument against it. Lol.

Sure, I agree with you for the most part on that. The issue is that even after he got popped, there are still character flaws that  seem to be why the Caps are open to moving him. I don’t think that Murray is the type that can or even wants to deal with that.

28 minutes ago, Fisix said:

no vote on Drouin.

yes vote on Kotkaniemi.

yes vote on Galchenyuk, but worried about price.

I will die on the hill that the Ducks shouldn’t be making major moves right now unless it’s towards a rebuild. Have one more bad season and then start swinging with more cap space, picks/prospects and a GM that is not Bob Murray.

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1 hour ago, Fisix said:

yes vote on Galchenyuk, but worried about price.

He signed a 1 year 1M this season with Ottawa then was traded to the Leafs. I see him as the kind of reclamation project the Ducks should be interested in.

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2 hours ago, gorbachav5 said:

I don't want my highly tuned athlete using highly addictive and harmful illegal drugs.  It's not performance enhancing, obviously, but it's a severe health risk.  And cocaine/heroine/fentanyl/etc. are a lot different than having a beer or smoking a joint, which I wouldn't have an issue with.  I don't think those belong in the same category of recreational drugs.

Again, I think it's pretty naïve to think they aren't already doing it. After moving to Canada and playing in some hockey leagues here with some great players (i.e. former Major Junior players) with friends in the NHL, I've found that cocaine is incredibly widespread among younger players. It's basically an open secret here. In fact there are a few NHL players in Canada that are (were - before Covid) known in hockey circles for supplying such drugs to visiting players from US teams when they were in town.

I can't speak to heroin or fentanyl but cocaine is widespread.

Edited by nieder

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59 minutes ago, nieder said:

Again, I think it's pretty naïve to think they aren't already doing it. After moving to Canada and playing in some hockey leagues here with some great players (i.e. former Major Junior players) with friends in the NHL, I've found that cocaine is incredibly widespread among younger players. It's basically an open secret here. In fact there are a few NHL players in Canada that are (were - before Covid) known in hockey circles for supplying such drugs to visiting players from US teams when they were in town.

I can't speak to heroin or fentanyl but cocaine is widespread.

that makes me incredibly sad.  i get having fun and risking some self-medication, but next step recreational drugs (i view cocaine as one of those) are mostly self destructive and indicative of larger physical/mental problems not being addressed.  if it's widespread, then the league isn't treating its players well and the players are resorting to crutches wherever they can find them.

i still worry that one potential explanation for all the injuries the Duck have had the past few years could be pharma abuse.  stuff can get you up for a game mentally and physically, but not in any kind of sustainable way, and the risk of injury invariably goes up.  even considering the age of our players, there's only so many possible reasons why they've been falling like flies and suffering from such poor durability relative to their peers.  it's pretty much one of: how they train, how they play, and/or how they medicate.

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2 hours ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

I will die on the hill that the Ducks shouldn’t be making major moves right now unless it’s towards a rebuild. Have one more bad season and then start swinging with more cap space, picks/prospects and a GM that is not Bob Murray.

would it take a major move to get Kotk or Galch?

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3 hours ago, Fisix said:

no vote on Drouin.

yes vote on Kotkaniemi.

yes vote on Galchenyuk, but worried about price.

did not know about nose candy being a problem with Kuznetsov.  if it's bad enough that it reaches the press, then it's bad enough to keep him off the team.  that turns him into a no for me, at the stated cost.   

I would not mind our Ducks trading for Kotkaniemi.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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Jonathan Druin for Manson + a lower level prospect or pick, who says no? Maybe even Silf, I think he plays the way Montreal likes. 

 

I would happily take a flyer on Druin. Let him be a secondary guy, take the pressure off and I think I’d be happy. I hope he’s okay, the way everyone talked about it surrounding the team was super serious sounding. This team needs high end talent and he has it. Just let him play his style and don’t expect him to br a Selke winner. 

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3 hours ago, Fisix said:

would it take a major move to get Kotk or Galch?

Galchenyuk, no. It would only cost minimal cap space but it seems like another shuffling deck chair, reclamation project. I wouldn’t be against it especially if we move on from other forwards.

Kotkaniemi is interesting but I don’t know if Montreal is going to give him up on him this early unless it helps them get a major center upgrade. We can’t help them with that. They might lose Danault in free agency which would dent their center depth. Not sure what he does for the Ducks or the cost, and I doubt he take pressure off Zegras.

I usually reference major trades like Eichel, DuBois, Laine, Reinhart, Kuznetsov as ones that I don’t want this offseason.

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2 hours ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

Galchenyuk, no. It would only cost minimal cap space but it seems like another shuffling deck chair, reclamation project. I wouldn’t be against it especially if we move on from other forwards.

Kotkaniemi is interesting but I don’t know if Montreal is going to give him up on him this early unless it helps them get a major center upgrade. We can’t help them with that. They might lose Danault in free agency which would dent their center depth. Not sure what he does for the Ducks or the cost, and I doubt he take pressure off Zegras.

I usually reference major trades like Eichel, DuBois, Laine, Reinhart, Kuznetsov as ones that I don’t want this offseason.

I really don’t understand what you even want this team to do. 
no to 24 year old franchise center for potentially an all time low

23 year old 2 time 30 goal scorer 1 time 40 Goal scorer 

23 year old top line winger/center with 2 20 goal seasons already. 
25 year old second line center who’s scored 20 goals 5 Times.

 

I understand not wanting to trade for Kuznetsov he’s older and expensive, but landing Eichel, Laine, Dubois, Reinhart would be massive for the team if they could do it without selling their top 2 prospects. These young stars/very good players don’t come available without caveats. If you can land someone like Eichel or Laine without giving up Z and Drysdale, you should do it, no questions asked. Reinhart might be a little overpriced I’ll admit so I wouldn’t mind passing, but him and Dubois are very good and young. Exactly what this franchise needs. 

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5 hours ago, Fisix said:

would it take a major move to get Kotk or Galch?

Galchenyuk would be a UFA so no move needed however. Seattle can interview and sign him before the ED if Toronto doesn't cover him. 

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20 hours ago, ike8228 said:

Tarasenko has asked for a trade from St Louis. 

another star player requesting a trade....

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9 hours ago, Sexlaf15 said:

I really don’t understand what you even want this team to do. 
no to 24 year old franchise center for potentially an all time low

23 year old 2 time 30 goal scorer 1 time 40 Goal scorer 

23 year old top line winger/center with 2 20 goal seasons already. 
25 year old second line center who’s scored 20 goals 5 Times.

 

I understand not wanting to trade for Kuznetsov he’s older and expensive, but landing Eichel, Laine, Dubois, Reinhart would be massive for the team if they could do it without selling their top 2 prospects. These young stars/very good players don’t come available without caveats. If you can land someone like Eichel or Laine without giving up Z and Drysdale, you should do it, no questions asked. Reinhart might be a little overpriced I’ll admit so I wouldn’t mind passing, but him and Dubois are very good and young. Exactly what this franchise needs. 

Totally agree.

I think there's a mindset by some of, "why not tank again next year," and since it's a strong draft, maybe grab a top pick/franchise player. I know injuries are part of the game, but with a full year of Zegras/Drysdale, and a healthy Lindholm/Manson (assuming still with the team)  it's doubtful we end up bottom 3 again. Even this year, the one big aberration was our home record. I think we were one game under .500 on the road.

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9 hours ago, Sexlaf15 said:

I really don’t understand what you even want this team to do. 
no to 24 year old franchise center for potentially an all time low

23 year old 2 time 30 goal scorer 1 time 40 Goal scorer 

23 year old top line winger/center with 2 20 goal seasons already. 
25 year old second line center who’s scored 20 goals 5 Times.

 

I understand not wanting to trade for Kuznetsov he’s older and expensive, but landing Eichel, Laine, Dubois, Reinhart would be massive for the team if they could do it without selling their top 2 prospects. These young stars/very good players don’t come available without caveats. If you can land someone like Eichel or Laine without giving up Z and Drysdale, you should do it, no questions asked. Reinhart might be a little overpriced I’ll admit so I wouldn’t mind passing, but him and Dubois are very good and young. Exactly what this franchise needs. 

I think I’ve been pretty clear and consistent over the last two plus seasons  about what I want this team to do (besides fire Murray): Actually commit to a rebuild and seeing what the market is for Lindholm, Manson, Rakell, Silfverberg, Henrique. You don’t trade everyone but you need to decide who stays and goes and get future assets. Why keep betting on these players and the overall roster?

Eichel, Laine, would be massive and sell tickets but the playoffs are probably not happening and the Cup definitely isn’t with either because this team is very bad, imo. It would be funny if the two worst teams in the nhl made a huge trade with each other though. I agree that players like him are rarely available but you need to be in a position to take advantage of it. Are the Ducks with this team, assets, Coach and GM? I’d say absolutely not. They are the worst team do be able to do that right now, imo.

With Zegras and Drysdale, I’m hopeful they are going to be key players but I get a sense that we are anointing them as franchise locks after less than 25 games played. Given that people have rightly pointed out concerns with the Ducks ability to develop players. If they aren’t as good as we hope then it won’t matter who we trade for so I’d rather have more of sample size on them before we start going heavy on trades and free agency to bolster them.

This season is likely to be another developmental or lost season, which is fine with me in the long run but if the team thinks that can pull their chute on a rebuild that they really haven’t started then we are going to be screwed for a while.

Edited by BombaysTripleDeke

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23 minutes ago, dukitup said:

Totally agree.

I think there's a mindset by some of, "why not tank again next year," and since it's a strong draft, maybe grab a top pick/franchise player. I know injuries are part of the game, but with a full year of Zegras/Drysdale, and a healthy Lindholm/Manson (assuming still with the team)  it's doubtful we end up bottom 3 again. Even this year, the one big aberration was our home record. I think we were one game under .500 on the road.

Furthermore...isn't it good if our team becomes a bubble playoff team next year?? That would mean Z and Drys and others are developing well, our coaching has improved...these all sound like good things to me lol things we want

I feel like if this was 2005...some would be like "well, we got Getzlaf, Perry, Bobby Ryan...we should be bad for a couple more seasons so we can get the support we need for these players! Why are we signing some washed up Selanne who has an injury history?! Scott Niedermayer? We're years away before he could help us. We should trade Giguere now so we can get something really good for the rebuild! Especially if Bryz could be ready for the starting role" :P 

Edited by Jasoaks
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19 minutes ago, dukitup said:

Totally agree.

I think there's a mindset by some of, "why not tank again next year," and since it's a strong draft, maybe grab a top pick/franchise player. I know injuries are part of the game, but with a full year of Zegras/Drysdale, and a healthy Lindholm/Manson (assuming still with the team)  it's doubtful we end up bottom 3 again. Even this year, the one big aberration was our home record. I think we were one game under .500 on the road.

The Ducks aren’t tanking though. They are just legitimately very bad but Murray thinks that he has a playoff team somewhere. What some people call tanking, I call rebuilding which is what teams do all the time, not players. I don’t think we’ll be as bad as last year either because there’s really no where to go but up lol. 

Edited by BombaysTripleDeke

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You can rebuild and still trade for guys like Eichel, Dubois, Laine, Drouin. They’re very young and like I said, my opinion on the trade relies on keeping Z and Drysdale. Rebuilds aren’t just drafting well, they’ll accelerate if you can make good trades and I think there’s opportunities for that this season. Maybe not, but Murray could do a lot of good for this franchise by being smart and nail a trade or two. Especially considering how long it’s been since he’s won one. 

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27 minutes ago, Sexlaf15 said:

You can rebuild and still trade for guys like Eichel, Dubois, Laine, Drouin. They’re very young and like I said, my opinion on the trade relies on keeping Z and Drysdale. Rebuilds aren’t just drafting well, they’ll accelerate if you can make good trades and I think there’s opportunities for that this season. Maybe not, but Murray could do a lot of good for this franchise by being smart and nail a trade or two. Especially considering how long it’s been since he’s won one. 

You can but I don’t think you should do that at this point with the Ducks. We don’t even know or have a clear idea on how well we’ve drafted since it’s all in the early development stage. Subsequently, I think drafting well comes first before you start accelerating with trades. If Zegras/Drysdale had a full year or two in the NHL and were obvious studs then I think it’s a different conversation.

IMO. Nailing trades this offseason should be about getting future assets that we can either ice or use to upgrade the roster starting next summer. 

Edited by BombaysTripleDeke

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2 minutes ago, gorbachav5 said:

Yeah, I'm with this.  We could trade for Eichel and then Zegras becomes Sam Reinhart and Drysdale becomes Rasmus Dahlin.  That's nice.  But we're still Buffalo.  If Zegras becomes the next Joe Thornton and Drysdale becomes Shea Theodore (/weeps uncontrollably), then we make that move to improve the team with known quantity NHL players.

I know that a guy like Eichel doesn't become available very often, so if the Ducks can get him without giving up Zegras or Drysdale, I'd probably do it.  But I also have no problem waiting and building a little bit more slowly.  When the roster (and front office) are as borked up as they are in the Ducks organization, trying to do a quick fix to relevance scares the heck out of me.  That doesn't usually work. 

 My thing is exactly that you can’t control when these guys become available. It’s not every day that Eichel level players become available. That’s my major point. I’m fine with taking the long road, trading for Eichel isn’t my idea of cutting it down. I just think this team needs talent, my point is making smart moves when the come up is the way we should do it. 

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16 hours ago, Fisix said:

that makes me incredibly sad.  i get having fun and risking some self-medication, but next step recreational drugs (i view cocaine as one of those) are mostly self destructive and indicative of larger physical/mental problems not being addressed.  if it's widespread, then the league isn't treating its players well and the players are resorting to crutches wherever they can find them.

i still worry that one potential explanation for all the injuries the Duck have had the past few years could be pharma abuse.  stuff can get you up for a game mentally and physically, but not in any kind of sustainable way, and the risk of injury invariably goes up.  even considering the age of our players, there's only so many possible reasons why they've been falling like flies and suffering from such poor durability relative to their peers.  it's pretty much one of: how they train, how they play, and/or how they medicate.

Kesler certainly got messed up on Toradol, but that was to try and stay in the lineup.

I'm not sure why we seem to be near the top of man games lost every year, it sucks for sure.

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56 minutes ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

The Ducks aren’t tanking though. They are just legitimately very bad but Murray thinks that he has a playoff team somewhere. What some people call tanking, I call rebuilding which is what teams do all the time, not players. I don’t think we’ll be as bad as last year either because there’s really no where to go but up lol. 

Moving out good NHL players for a fistful of picks and prospects, while not replacing those NHL players in the lineup so that you can finish with high draft odds the following season, is pretty much the definition of tanking. Rebuilding can certainly be done through tanking, but they're not one in the same. Rebuilding can also be done quite effectively by acquiring good young players from wherever you can get them, including through trades. Lots of teams do it this way rather than trying to suck their way to a high pick. Seguin to Dallas and the bold trades that Carolina made for Jordan Staal and Dougie Hamilton when the team wasn't very good both come to mind immediately. 

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