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5 hours ago, CharlieConway said:

How many teams have more NTC / NMC  than the Ducks? not many. 

Lets look at the actual good franchises when wanting to emulate the market. 

Avalanche - Kadri, MacK, Johnson, Landeskog. 

The only bad NTC here is Johnson (who is much better than Shattenkirk) and the rest are all top 6 talent / elite. 

Lightning - Bogosian, Hedman, Kucherov, Stamkos, Vas, Palat, Killorn, Perry, Maroon, McDonagh, 

Everyone here outside of Killorn (who is better than both Silf and Henrique) is either a top 6 f / top 4 d-man OR on a sweetheart contract.

Bruins, Knights, Caps, Pens are also pretty much similar to the above. (1, maybe 2 questionable NTC)

The Ducks NTC feature Henrique (5.8M), Silf (5.2), Getzlaf. Bottom 6 forwards at best and only one has actually accomplished anything of note with this team. 

Shattenkirk is god awful and was worse than a handful of D-man who would've signed for cheap and wouldn't require a NTC.  

The Ducks simply don't know how to use NTC / NMC and should probably follow the Devils and only use it to attract ELITE d-man, not scrubs who are carried by Victor Hedman during a playoff run. 

 

 

Wasn't this discussed already and shown that as far as ntc and nmc is concerned we were about league average?

I'm scratching my head at the bolded. How exactly are they "bottom 6 forwards at best"? First of all, when we signed them they were at worst second liners, except Getzy who by the way deserves that added perk because he's earned it with this team. Like Teemu and others, Getzy has every right to have that in his contract. Second, I don't think MOST teams would have those players outside the top 6 besides Getzy (who again isn't the same player he once was but has earned the ntc). 

Shatty doesn't deserve the ntc but Bob wanted him and that was the sweetener to get him here. Honestly, we probably shouldn't have picked him up in the first place.

So again, we're about league average when it comes to those clauses. I don't disagree that they're hurting the team, it's just that you make that kind of a statement I had to reply. 

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10 hours ago, g20topdogg said:

Wasn't this discussed already and shown that as far as ntc and nmc is concerned we were about league average?

I'm scratching my head at the bolded. How exactly are they "bottom 6 forwards at best"? First of all, when we signed them they were at worst second liners, except Getzy who by the way deserves that added perk because he's earned it with this team. Like Teemu and others, Getzy has every right to have that in his contract. Second, I don't think MOST teams would have those players outside the top 6 besides Getzy (who again isn't the same player he once was but has earned the ntc). 

Shatty doesn't deserve the ntc but Bob wanted him and that was the sweetener to get him here. Honestly, we probably shouldn't have picked him up in the first place.

So again, we're about league average when it comes to those clauses. I don't disagree that they're hurting the team, it's just that you make that kind of a statement I had to reply. 

I´m gonna jump in. Calling them bottom 6 forwards is a bit harsh. And only 1 has accomplished anything with the team? It´s been a while but there was a time we were Stanley Cup contenders. Silfverberg was money in The Playoffs. He´s been great for us. They´re overpaid now but when healthy I´m sure there´s a role for them on this team.

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3 hours ago, FanSince1993 said:

I hear the stories from St. Louis that Tarasenko is available. Is he still good or not anymore? The guy was a scoring machine a few yearts ago.

Murray no likey Russians

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2 hours ago, nieder said:

Murray no likey Russians

Nor did his Predecessor....I would not mind IF our Ducks look to trade for a Finn.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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On 9/12/2021 at 8:21 AM, FanSince1993 said:

I hear the stories from St. Louis that Tarasenko is available. Is he still good or not anymore? The guy was a scoring machine a few yearts ago.

He's had severe shoulder issues the last couple seasons.  He was thoroughly mediocre in limited time last season (and only played ten games the season before that).  He's about to turn 30, so he's into his decline.

Tarasenko doesn't make any sense for the Ducks.  He's only signed two more years, so while it would be fun to watch Zegras set him up for goals this season and next (assuming his arm is still attached to his body), it's not going to move the needle in terms of a playoff push.  With Eichel, you can at least see the Ducks getting back to contention over the life of his contract.  I don't think that's true of Tarasenko. 

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2 minutes ago, Gorbachav55 said:

He's had severe shoulder issues the last couple seasons.  He was thoroughly mediocre in limited time last season (and only played ten games the season before that).  He's about to turn 30, so he's into his decline.

Tarasenko doesn't make any sense for the Ducks.  He's only signed two more years, so while it would be fun to watch Zegras set him up for goals this season and next (assuming his arm is still attached to his body), it's not going to move the needle in terms of a playoff push.  With Eichel, you can at least see the Ducks getting back to contention over the life of his contract.  I don't think that's true of Tarasenko. 

Without any other moves to make the team better in the immediate future, I can't see the Ducks wanting Tarasenko even if they did like Russians. However, you have to wonder if GMBM has been given the green light to be a broker team since he hasn't made any other moves this summer. Tarasenko's contract is brutal this season ($9.5M in actual salary) but it drops to $5.5M in actual salary next season. If the Ducks waited until, say,  after Christmas, could they take on half of his remaining salary as a middle man? There has to be a decent market for a 30-year-old Tarasenko at a $3.75M cap hit, right? I would think they'd get at least a 1st rounder + prospect out of it. That's still a lot of $$ to retain though.

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3 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

Without any other moves to make the team better in the immediate future, I can't see the Ducks wanting Tarasenko even if they did like Russians. However, you have to wonder if GMBM has been given the green light to be a broker team since he hasn't made any other moves this summer. Tarasenko's contract is brutal this season ($9.5M in actual salary) but it drops to $5.5M in actual salary next season. If the Ducks waited until, say,  after Christmas, could they take on half of his remaining salary as a middle man? There has to be a decent market for a 30-year-old Tarasenko at a $3.75M cap hit, right? I would think they'd get at least a 1st rounder + prospect out of it. That's still a lot of $$ to retain though.

That's the sort of creative deal-making the Ducks should be all over.  And yet our GM and/or ownership seem to want no part of it, whether because they don't want to spend the money or because Murray refuses to be creative.

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3 minutes ago, Gorbachav55 said:

That's the sort of creative deal-making the Ducks should be all over.  And yet our GM and/or ownership seem to want no part of it, whether because they don't want to spend the money or because Murray refuses to be creative.

I'm going to remain optimistic that, if the team continues to flounder and they sell off Getzlaf, Rakell, Lindholm, etc. at the deadline, they will be a broker team. The Seattle expansion fees make that completely practical.

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wait....unused cap space...I never thought about this so don't know  the answer...but does that GO somewhere if not used? Or is it all just theoretical money till it's used on a player?

I'm just trying to understand the motivation behind not wanting to spend to the cap. And why we don't want to do anything with our $14mil we have right now....

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1 hour ago, Jasoaks said:

wait....unused cap space...I never thought about this so don't know  the answer...but does that GO somewhere if not used? Or is it all just theoretical money till it's used on a player?

I'm just trying to understand the motivation behind not wanting to spend to the cap. And why we don't want to do anything with our $14mil we have right now....

The motivation is for the owners to make money.  The Samuelis have long said that they lose money on the Ducks.  We have to take their word on it since the financials aren't publicly available, but that's what's been reported.  The reason they don't spend to the cap is because they don't want to lose more money, which is understandable while also being disappointing.  It means we don't get all the nice things we want.  But in a season where they got expansion fees as an added source of cash, it should be a little easier to spend money to support the long-term success of the franchise.  Essentially buying a first round pick by brokering a Tarasenko deal would be exactly that.

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54 minutes ago, Gorbachav55 said:

The motivation is for the owners to make money.  The Samuelis have long said that they lose money on the Ducks.  We have to take their word on it since the financials aren't publicly available, but that's what's been reported.  The reason they don't spend to the cap is because they don't want to lose more money, which is understandable while also being disappointing.  It means we don't get all the nice things we want.  But in a season where they got expansion fees as an added source of cash, it should be a little easier to spend money to support the long-term success of the franchise.  Essentially buying a first round pick by brokering a Tarasenko deal would be exactly that.

ohhh so, any unused cap money....goes to....them? just to like....pocket? or goes somewhere to benefit the people involved with the team?

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25 minutes ago, Jasoaks said:

ohhh so, any unused cap money....goes to....them? just to like....pocket? or goes somewhere to benefit the people involved with the team?

The cap is not like a per diem from the league, where the owners can either spend it or pocket what they don't spend. It's just an upper limit on the amount an owner can spend on the roster for the season.

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8 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

The cap is not like a per diem from the league, where the owners can either spend it or pocket what they don't spend. It's just an upper limit on the amount an owner can spend on the roster for the season.

This.  That's why the Ducks have often been discussed here and in publications as a "budget team."  Meaning, the owners have set a budget for Murray at X dollars, and Murray can only spend up to that amount, even though the cap is set at Y dollars.  A lot of teams are "cap teams" where ownership has authorized them to spend as much money as they can while abiding by salary cap rules.  A budget team doesn't get any benefit for not spending to the cap.  They just spend less on player salaries.

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1 minute ago, Gorbachav55 said:

This.  That's why the Ducks have often been discussed here and in publications as a "budget team."  Meaning, the owners have set a budget for Murray at X dollars, and Murray can only spend up to that amount, even though the cap is set at Y dollars.  A lot of teams are "cap teams" where ownership has authorized them to spend as much money as they can while abiding by salary cap rules.  A budget team doesn't get any benefit for not spending to the cap.  They just spend less on player salaries.

And We should support those who are earning their spot on Ducks Roster. Look I know most like you are doom and gloom But it's best we hope for the best our team Breaks through the Slump and Hit the ground Running.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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25 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

The cap is not like a per diem from the league, where the owners can either spend it or pocket what they don't spend. It's just an upper limit on the amount an owner can spend on the roster for the season.

 

10 minutes ago, Gorbachav55 said:

This.  That's why the Ducks have often been discussed here and in publications as a "budget team."  Meaning, the owners have set a budget for Murray at X dollars, and Murray can only spend up to that amount, even though the cap is set at Y dollars.  A lot of teams are "cap teams" where ownership has authorized them to spend as much money as they can while abiding by salary cap rules.  A budget team doesn't get any benefit for not spending to the cap.  They just spend less on player salaries.

got it got it....i see....

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55 minutes ago, Jasoaks said:

ohhh so, any unused cap money....goes to....them? just to like....pocket? or goes somewhere to benefit the people involved with the team?

It's just payroll.  Just a business expense.

Team A pays $64 mil in payroll, Team B pays $80 mil.  Team A takes in $120 mil, Team B take is $130 mil.

After team payroll Team A has $56 mil in gross profit before all other expenses, Team B has $50 mil.

 

If the Ducks stay at their current payroll and gross, say $56 mil, but they could take on Eichel's $10 mil and gross $49mil, why would they do that?

They didn't do as well as they could.  Now, if they take on Eichel and they gross $60 mil, that makes more sense.

Those are simple numbers, but that is the gist.  And, as stated above, they have the SEA expansion money.  So spend money to improve the team to make more money.  They need a competitive team to get butts in the seats and at the beer line and buying hats and parking.  The team has to be good and exciting.

Edited by tommer-1

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8 minutes ago, tommer-1 said:

It's just payroll.  Just a business expense.

Team A pays $64 mil in payroll, Team B pays $80 mil.  Team A takes in $120 mil, Team B take is $130 mil.

After team payroll Team A has $56 mil in gross profit before all other expenses, Team B has $50 mil.

 

If the Ducks stay at their current payroll and gross, say $56 mil, but they could take on Eichel's $10 mil and gross $49mil, why would they do that?

They didn't do as well as they could.  Now, if they take on Eichel and they gross $60 mil, that makes more sense.

Those are simple numbers, but that is the gist.  And, as stated above, they have the SEA expansion money.  So spend money to improve the team to make more money.  They need a competitive team to get butts in the seats and at the beer line and buying hats and parking.  The team has to be good and exciting.

The last bit is more or less what I was going to say. I’ve said this in the past. You have to spend money to make money. You make money from people going to the games and spending money one way or the other. If you get enough people going, supply and demand raises ticket cost. You also make money on merchandise. Not sure if they make more if tv ratings are higher. But unfortunately the only way the Ducks can gain that much attention is the bandwagoners of SoCal. Most people around here know nothing about hockey, and if they follow a team it’s the Kings because for some reason kings are cool?…idk 

So how do you do this? Spend money to bring in talent and coaches that can coach and bigger star names. Give people a reason to come and spend money. Why go spend a few hundred a night to watch a team get spanked on a regular basis. Why would you want to where a jersey and people make fun of you because the teams sucks, therefor less mercy sales. It happens.
 

Brand loyalty is a good start and I think they have done a good job of that with the rinks. You get more kids involved with the game early and have your name and logo all over the place for them to associate their experience with. They grow up and become money spenders. The rinks program has been around for a long time now. Maybe they are just starting to see some of that effect with kids from the beginning getting older? Or that can all be Tom foolery but I think there is something to it.

Anyway…

Spend money to make money.

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On 9/11/2021 at 8:37 AM, DucksFan_08 said:

I´m gonna jump in. Calling them bottom 6 forwards is a bit harsh. And only 1 has accomplished anything with the team? It´s been a while but there was a time we were Stanley Cup contenders. Silfverberg was money in The Playoffs. He´s been great for us. They´re overpaid now but when healthy I´m sure there´s a role for them on this team.

I don't see Silf or Henrique being top 6 on any team unless they get some great line mates and or turn their decline around in a big way. Silf and Henrique are not two guys I see worth investing in and I feel like the team should've known that before they handed out those contracts. Surely in 2019 the writing was on the wall about where this team was trending. 

I was harsh on Silf by saying he didn't accomplish anything but I personally believe that if you aren't leading the team to championships than you shouldn't be given a franchise player type contract (unless you're an elite talent like Gibson)

On 9/10/2021 at 10:00 PM, g20topdogg said:

Wasn't this discussed already and shown that as far as ntc and nmc is concerned we were about league average?

I'm scratching my head at the bolded. How exactly are they "bottom 6 forwards at best"? First of all, when we signed them they were at worst second liners, except Getzy who by the way deserves that added perk because he's earned it with this team. Like Teemu and others, Getzy has every right to have that in his contract. Second, I don't think MOST teams would have those players outside the top 6 besides Getzy (who again isn't the same player he once was but has earned the ntc). 

Shatty doesn't deserve the ntc but Bob wanted him and that was the sweetener to get him here. Honestly, we probably shouldn't have picked him up in the first place.

So again, we're about league average when it comes to those clauses. I don't disagree that they're hurting the team, it's just that you make that kind of a statement I had to reply. 

I agree that Getzlaf earned his contract and would be incredibly disappointed if Bob let a second player who will have their number in the rafters get away. 

It's Silf and Henrique that I disagree with. Silf and Henrique were both solid players for this franchise but 5 million a year with NTC for second line players who are moving out of their prime? that was quite the risk. If most teams can turn Silf and Henrique into top 6ers again than the Ducks have some serious management / coaching issues because Silf and Henrique looked like they should've been watching the game from the press box on most nights. 

Either way it looks like the Ducks are staying with the current management and coaching unit, so I can't imagine Silf and Henrique doing much better but hopefully I'm wrong and they both get it going this season.

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8 hours ago, CharlieConway said:

I don't see Silf or Henrique being top 6 on any team unless they get some great line mates and or turn their decline around in a big way. Silf and Henrique are not two guys I see worth investing in and I feel like the team should've known that before they handed out those contracts. Surely in 2019 the writing was on the wall about where this team was trending. 

I was harsh on Silf by saying he didn't accomplish anything but I personally believe that if you aren't leading the team to championships than you shouldn't be given a franchise player type contract (unless you're an elite talent like Gibson)

I agree that Getzlaf earned his contract and would be incredibly disappointed if Bob let a second player who will have their number in the rafters get away. 

It's Silf and Henrique that I disagree with. Silf and Henrique were both solid players for this franchise but 5 million a year with NTC for second line players who are moving out of their prime? that was quite the risk. If most teams can turn Silf and Henrique into top 6ers again than the Ducks have some serious management / coaching issues because Silf and Henrique looked like they should've been watching the game from the press box on most nights. 

Either way it looks like the Ducks are staying with the current management and coaching unit, so I can't imagine Silf and Henrique doing much better but hopefully I'm wrong and they both get it going this season.

Well with department of Rowney I expect another one of Ducks Youth to take his place and earn the spot.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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17 hours ago, ike8228 said:

The last bit is more or less what I was going to say. I’ve said this in the past. You have to spend money to make money. You make money from people going to the games and spending money one way or the other. If you get enough people going, supply and demand raises ticket cost. You also make money on merchandise. Not sure if they make more if tv ratings are higher. But unfortunately the only way the Ducks can gain that much attention is the bandwagoners of SoCal. Most people around here know nothing about hockey, and if they follow a team it’s the Kings because for some reason kings are cool?…idk 

 

1. Population.  There are 3,898,747 people in the city of Los Angeles, just over 10 million in the county, 13 million in L.A. metro.  By contrast, Anaheim's population is 346,824, with Orange County at 3,010,232.  So, as far as that goes, it's a numbers game.

2. History. The Kings have been around 54+ years, the Ducks 28+.  Again, just a numbers game. One to two more generations being exposed to Kings hockey over Ducks hockey.

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28 minutes ago, tommer-1 said:

1. Population.  There are 3,898,747 people in the city of Los Angeles, just over 10 million in the county, 13 million in L.A. metro.  By contrast, Anaheim's population is 346,824, with Orange County at 3,010,232.  So, as far as that goes, it's a numbers game.

2. History. The Kings have been around 54+ years, the Ducks 28+.  Again, just a numbers game. One to two more generations being exposed to Kings hockey over Ducks hockey.

Given all that, Ducks attendance average isn't that far below Kings.

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45 minutes ago, tommer-1 said:

1. Population.  There are 3,898,747 people in the city of Los Angeles, just over 10 million in the county, 13 million in L.A. metro.  By contrast, Anaheim's population is 346,824, with Orange County at 3,010,232.  So, as far as that goes, it's a numbers game.

2. History. The Kings have been around 54+ years, the Ducks 28+.  Again, just a numbers game. One to two more generations being exposed to Kings hockey over Ducks hockey.

San Diego County's population is roughly 3.3 million and we have the Ducks minor league affiliate as one of the only shows in town. Youth hockey is also really growing down here too (Thatcher Demko is from my town and grew up on the local ice rink here). It's also a nice, easy ride on the Amtrak to Anaheim on game days. If they had any sense, the organization would be marketing the crap out of the Ducks down here, including having pre-season games here like the Lakers used to do. It's hard to market a loser though. 

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2 hours ago, gotchabari said:

Given all that, Ducks attendance average isn't that far below Kings.

If you could hypothetically build two 80,000-seat hockey arenas, one in downtown LA and at the other at the corner of Douglass and Katella, you would see the difference.

There are just more Kings' fans in So Cal than Ducks' fans.  Just a numbers game.

2 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

San Diego County's population is roughly 3.3 million and we have the Ducks minor league affiliate as one of the only shows in town. Youth hockey is also really growing down here too (Thatcher Demko is from my town and grew up on the local ice rink here). It's also a nice, easy ride on the Amtrak to Anaheim on game days. If they had any sense, the organization would be marketing the crap out of the Ducks down here, including having pre-season games here like the Lakers used to do. It's hard to market a loser though. 

They for sure should be doing a better job of cultivating hockey fans in San Diego County, especially northern SDC. Build it around a Duck's Flyer train that is decked out in the colors, has a roving three piece hype band roaming the cars, themed food and beverages, pump in historic radio and TV game calls over the audio of the cars, get Ducks' alum to make the ride up with fans, do a pregame show live remote from the train - get creative, make it a whole experience, having two preseason games at Pechanga Arena.  They should be giving away tickets on a nightly basis to Ducks' fans for Gulls' games and vice versa.

They should play up the fact that LA claims the Kings, while the Ducks are really So Cal's Hockey Team.

My son played plenty of away games for his HS team in Poway and Carlsbad over the last couple of years.  There are hockey fans and players in SD.  Many.

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25 minutes ago, tommer-1 said:

If you could hypothetically build two 80,000-seat hockey arenas, one in downtown LA and at the other at the corner of Douglass and Katella, you would see the difference.

There are just more Kings' fans in So Cal than Ducks' fans.  Just a numbers game.

They for sure should be doing a better job of cultivating hockey fans in San Diego County, especially northern SDC. Build it around a Duck's Flyer train that is decked out in the colors, has a roving three piece hype band roaming the cars, themed food and beverages, pump in historic radio and TV game calls over the audio of the cars, get Ducks' alum to make the ride up with fans, do a pregame show live remote from the train - get creative, make it a whole experience, having two preseason games at Pechanga Arena.  They should be giving away tickets on a nightly basis to Ducks' fans for Gulls' games and vice versa.

They should play up the fact that LA claims the Kings, while the Ducks are really So Cal's Hockey Team.

My son played plenty of away games for his HS team in Poway and Carlsbad over the last couple of years.  There are hockey fans and players in SD.  Many.

This is brilliant.

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1 hour ago, tommer-1 said:

If you could hypothetically build two 80,000-seat hockey arenas, one in downtown LA and at the other at the corner of Douglass and Katella, you would see the difference.

Neither sell out as it is, so not sure it would change.  There are more Kings sweaters, sure, but I tend to think we have a more true fans within our clump of sweaters.    

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I've never been to game even though I've wanted to so many times especially if it's a Kings game. I think the location of the Honda Center is pretty bad for fans that live outside the OC if your only way in is the 91 or 57 freeways. If it's a weekday game forget about it. Maybe for OC fans it's not much of a problem but I figure it would take me around 2 hours to get to a weekday game since I'm in San Bernadino county.

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29 Days till Anaheim Ducks are Unleashed...It's clear to us all...They will stay the course with the Rebuild,Restore and Rejuvenation mode.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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19 hours ago, gotchabari said:

Neither sell out as it is, so not sure it would change.  There are more Kings sweaters, sure, but I tend to think we have a more true fans within our clump of sweaters.    

Maybe they wouldn't sell out, but, again, it's just a numbers game.  LA has a much bigger overall base of fans to draw from when compared to ANA. As I said before, just based on geography/demographics and history/years invested.

Who had bigger Cup celebrations, in terms of attendance? 

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17 hours ago, perry_mvp said:

I've never been to game even though I've wanted to so many times especially if it's a Kings game. I think the location of the Honda Center is pretty bad for fans that live outside the OC if your only way in is the 91 or 57 freeways. If it's a weekday game forget about it. Maybe for OC fans it's not much of a problem but I figure it would take me around 2 hours to get to a weekday game since I'm in San Bernadino county.

Trying to get downtown on a weekday at 5:30-6:00 PM is worse.

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