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#9 AND #27 to be retired!!!

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11 minutes ago, perry_mvp said:

Yet again, the Ducks never officially gave him an offer. He never got a qualifying offer from Anaheim. He became a UFA because Anaheim allowed him to.

That's incredibly hard to believe. The Ducks at very very VERY least would have given him a lower than market value to stay on the team just to try to keep him on. It makes absolutely no sense to not make any kind of offer. The probable reality of it all was that He just simply didn't want to be here no matter what the offer was. But that's ok because again where he failed is just communicating to the fans gracefully that he loved his time here but it was time to move on. 

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17 minutes ago, perry_mvp said:

Yet again, the Ducks never officially gave him an offer. He never got a qualifying offer from Anaheim. He became a UFA because Anaheim allowed him to.

They didn't give him a qualifying offer because they couldn't afford it and field a competitive team.  That's precisely why they didn't.  He'd already signed with Colorado before the Ducks could work something out with him.

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Just now, RobD360 said:

That's incredibly hard to believe. The Ducks at very very VERY least would have given him a lower than market value to stay on the team just to try to keep him on. It makes absolutely no sense to not make any kind of offer. The probable reality of it all was that He just simply didn't want to be here no matter what the offer was. But that's ok because again where he failed is just communicating to the fans gracefully that he loved his time here but it was time to move on. 

WolfgangDuck posted a link to an interview in this thread  about what Bryan Murray said. I guess no one bothered to read it or just had their minds made up.

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1 minute ago, gorbachav5 said:

They didn't give him a qualifying offer because they couldn't afford it and field a competitive team.  That's precisely why they didn't.  He'd already signed with Colorado before the Ducks could work something out with him.

Now that makes sense. PK bolted off to CO before giving the Ducks sufficient time to make an offer. What makes no sense at all is to not give any type of offer even a low ball offer to your teams superstar. Of course you are going to offer something, anything that falls within the teams budget to try and keep him in the fold

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2 minutes ago, gorbachav5 said:

They didn't give him a qualifying offer because they couldn't afford it and field a competitive team.  That's precisely why they didn't.  He'd already signed with Colorado before the Ducks could work something out with him.

How is that Kariya's fault? Also, the Ducks payroll went up the following season. 

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2 minutes ago, perry_mvp said:

How is that Kariya's fault? Also, the Ducks payroll went up the following season. 

I think he already made up his mind and left before the Ducks could field a workable offer. The fact of the matter was that the Ducks could not offer what Teemu was offering, and that was to gain back their former glory of being that dynamic duo once again together.

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And another thing. I haven't read this anywhere, just my thoughts... compete conjuncture on my part BUT How do you think PK felt when they dealt away Teemu the first time??? He may have felt betrayed and not trusting of the team, so he probably remembered that when he made the decision to leave the Ducks. Maybe this was his way of screwing Ducks management, hence his not forthcoming and attempt to pin his departure on management. 

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1 minute ago, RobD360 said:

I think he already made up his mind and left before the Ducks could field a workable offer. The fact of the matter was that the Ducks could not offer what Teemu was offering, and that was to gain back their former glory of being that dynamic duo once again together.

My whole point is that without the qualifying offer, Kariya was able to become a UFA. If he was given one, then the pressure would have been on him then to accept or reject it. 

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2 minutes ago, perry_mvp said:

My whole point is that without the qualifying offer, Kariya was able to become a UFA. If he was given one, then the pressure would have been on him then to accept or reject it. 

Perhaps. Again the question then becomes whether he gave the team enough time to produce that offer or did he bolt before allowing the team that chance? I don't know. 

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5 minutes ago, RobD360 said:

And another thing. I haven't read this anywhere, just my thoughts... compete conjuncture on my part BUT How do you think PK felt when they dealt away Teemu the first time??? He may have felt betrayed and not trusting of the team, so he probably remembered that when he made the decision to leave the Ducks. Maybe this was his way of screwing Ducks management, hence his not forthcoming and attempt to pin his departure on management. 

Dude. Stop stirring the pot... sheez ....people are already upset. Give it a break

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Just now, RobD360 said:

Perhaps. Again the question then becomes whether he gave the team enough time to produce that offer or did he bolt before allowing the team that chance? I don't know. 

There are only three people that have the answer to that question and two have passed away and the last guy has memory loss because of concussions.

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Just now, perry_mvp said:

There are only three people that have the answer to that question and two have passed away and the last guy has memory loss because of concussions.

It sounds like a true life crime story made for TV 

:ph34r:

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PK might have jumped early just so he didn't have to further justify to the league/whoever why he was doing so.  I forget the timeline, both stated and rumored.  I think they negotiated a little bit, and then PK offered to CO with TS, and CO snapped them up before the Ducks knew anything. 

That slight timing thing, where the Ducks found out AFTER he committed to CO with TS, is where the team-side hurt came from.  They were probably working the numbers on how to get PK and some other players onto the roster, probably working late into the night to come up with a number they hoped PK would agree to (somewhere above $5M and below $9M), and then either PK called or they learned from a press release that their candle-at-both-ends work was wasted time they could have spent working deals with other players.  So... legitimately some bad blood there.  But, clearly within the realm of NHL negotiation tactics, so not worth bearing a long term grudge for.  

I think the best way to think about it is to try to divorce your feelings for the team from your feelings for PK, because it can muddle your thinking and your ability to forgive. 

For the team, it was a horrible result, but we eventually rebounded and were the first west coast team to lift the cup.  Losing PK in that way might have helped overall, if by nothing else lighting a fire under the seat of the management and players and ownership.  It was harsh, but not long term harsh.

For PK, it ended up being really bad judgement, and he lost a lot of sympathy for his career aspirations from pretty much the whole league and fan base thereafter.  He legitimately complained about league-wide concussion issues, but got little support given his (externally) selfish act when he left the Ducks.  It's frustrating to think how much better everything could have been if he hadn't left in the way he did.  But, don't let your long term disappointment and frustration in his career performance sort of bleed over into a grudge against him based on how he treated the Ducks. 

If your focus is on the team, then in the balance of things, he did no lasting damage to the Ducks, and he gave us some excellent years of play that put us in the limelight when we needed it.

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I would also like to add that if the team was foolish enough to offer him a contract some time after the season and not before the date the qualifying offer was supposed to be given to retain his rights then that's just pure mismanagement. Who would even do such a thing? Or maybe I'm missing something and you can only offer another contract after the qo period? Or the team assumed that they had plenty of time and it turned out they didn't. 

It's too many what if's. I agree, it would be a lot easier if he just came out and spoke about how it went down. But maybe that would divide the fanbase even more, who knows. 

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1 hour ago, perry_mvp said:

How is that Kariya's fault? Also, the Ducks payroll went up the following season. 

Two things: 1) He could have worked out a long-term deal with the team that might have brought the average annual value down to where the team could afford it while giving him long-term security.  It seems he never gave the process that chance.  2) If he wanted to get paid, fine, but then don't tell the fans you're sticking around for another Cup run.  He handled that very poorly.

The Ducks payroll was always going to go up next season.  But they couldn't afford the qualifying offer to Kariya AND a player, like Selanne, who would legitimately complement him.

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1 minute ago, gorbachav5 said:

Two things: 1) He could have worked out a long-term deal with the team that might have brought the average annual value down to where the team could afford it while giving him long-term security.  It seems he never gave the process that chance.  2) If he wanted to get paid, fine, but then don't tell the fans you're sticking around for another Cup run.  He handled that very poorly.

The Ducks payroll was always going to go up next season.  But they couldn't afford the qualifying offer to Kariya AND a player, like Selanne, who would legitimately complement him.

In all fairness, what is he suppose to say? Ya'll suck I'm out, players do not say they want out, not very often at least. 

He pulled a Durant but failed to win lol. Joined a stacked team with his BFF and only scored like 30 points, I feel like the hockey gods got back at him making him play in Nashville before they were any good lol.

I am just happy my user name works now.

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7 minutes ago, gorbachav5 said:

Two things: 1) He could have worked out a long-term deal with the team that might have brought the average annual value down to where the team could afford it while giving him long-term security.  It seems he never gave the process that chance.  2) If he wanted to get paid, fine, but then don't tell the fans you're sticking around for another Cup run.  He handled that very poorly.

The Ducks payroll was always going to go up next season.  But they couldn't afford the qualifying offer to Kariya AND a player, like Selanne, who would legitimately complement him.

It's all speculation. Maybe Disney didn't want him around anymore because they didn't want to pay him $10M so that's why Murray didn't give him a QO. 

Selanne's knee was junk so even if there was a Kariya/Selanne reunion in Anaheim, it wasn't going to be like before.

 

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3 hours ago, perry_mvp said:

Yet again, the Ducks never officially gave him an offer. He never got a qualifying offer from Anaheim. He became a UFA because Anaheim allowed him to.

This is absolutely true.  He was perfectly willing to stay here so long as the MD clearly overpaid him year after year, and were then unable to provide balance to the roster, and give them a real chance at winning the Cup.  It was no coincidence that he held out for the original $10M contract, which he knew the MD would have to continue matching year after year, otherwise he would be free to take off.

What added insult to injury, is that he clearly deceived the MD by leading them to believe that he wanted to have Selanne come back, and the MD in turn informed him that the only way the team could fit that in the budget, would be if he took a little less than the $10M.  The MD lost their Franchise player for NOTHING.  At the least, they could have signed him and traded him, albeit probably with a cash payment as well, since nobody would have wanted PK at $10M, and would have then been able to receive a quality player in return.  Instead, it was Colorado who were able to fit Both him & Teemu in for less than the MD were willing to pay for him alone.  He screwed the Ducks on his way out the door, and perhaps hastened Disney's decision to bail ship, which eventually resulted in the current owners bringing in Burke & Scottie, so that Jiggy had a chance to shine during his hot period in his career.

Edit to add: And I was no fan of Disney ownership.  They made plenty of blunders along the way, but this was one of the times I actually thought they had the right intentions, and were finally taking the team's success seriously.  After years of using the Ducks as a promotional tool, the namesake of a movie series, they were showing signs of wanting to win the Cup, and realizing the club's roster, with a few tweaks, had a legitimate chance at doing so.  It was a time where a great goalie could make a club a yearly contender, and it appeared that Giguere was the real deal.  The fact the MD realized this enough to scramble to pick up one of the remaining superstar UFA's, an aging Fedorov, showed they wanted to give the club a chance at continuing their momentum.  We all know how that turned out, although the timely trade of Fedorov was a stroke of brilliance as it brought a relatively unknown guy named Beauchamin in return.  I still can't believe after years of criticism, I had to feel genuinely sorry for Disney at how PK screwed them over, just when they were trying to do the right thing at last.

Edited by HockeyIzCool

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12 minutes ago, HockeyIzCool said:

This is absolutely true.  He was perfectly willing to stay here so long as the MD clearly overpaid him year after year, and were then unable to provide balance to the roster, and give them a real chance at winning the Cup.  It was no coincidence that he held out for the original $10M contract, which he knew the MD would have to continue matching year after year, otherwise he would be free to take off.

What added insult to injury, is that he clearly deceived the MD by leading them to believe that he wanted to have Selanne come back, and the MD in turn informed him that the only way the team could fit that in the budget, would be if he took a little less than the $10M.  The MD lost their Franchise player for NOTHING.  At the least, they could have signed him and traded him, albeit probably with a cash payment as well, since nobody would have wanted PK at $10M, and would have then been able to receive a quality player in return.  Instead, it was Colorado who were able to fit Both him & Teemu in for less than the MD were willing to pay for him alone.  He screwed the Ducks on his way out the door, and perhaps hastened Disney's decision to bail ship, which eventually resulted in the current owners bringing in Burke & Scottie, so that Jiggy had a chance to shine during his hot period in his career.

pretty sure cash payments in trades were not allowed back then.

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9 minutes ago, JiggyToTheCup said:

pretty sure cash payments in trades were not allowed back then.

You're probably right.  It's irrelevant, because that was Never PK's intention anyways.  The $1.2M did not just come out of thin air.  My guess is that he was gone no matter what.  Actually, if they had won the Cup, it would have given him cover, allowing him to say he helped bring the club the Cup he had said he wanted to win here, and now he decided to move on.  Instead, he got to go with the "Next Year, Different Result" speech.

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14 hours ago, perry_mvp said:

It's all speculation. Maybe Disney didn't want him around anymore because they didn't want to pay him $10M so that's why Murray didn't give him a QO. 

Selanne's knee was junk so even if there was a Kariya/Selanne reunion in Anaheim, it wasn't going to be like before.

 

Some of it is speculation, but it's not speculation that he told the fans he'd be back and then wasn't.  And it's not speculation that the team was trying to free up some salary to sign another top line player - the front office came out and said as much.  It's also not speculation that they couldn't afford to pay him $10 million AND put a competitive team on the ice.  The front office admitted that as well.  They knew they caught lightning in a bottle with that Cup run, intelligently wanted to take steps to improve and become a sustained powerhouse, but couldn't while maintaining their budget and paying Kariya $10 million.

I'm going to bow out of this thread because it frustrates me to talk about it.  I'll reiterate what I've said before - I'm happy for those fans that are ready to celebrate him.  I'm happy for Kariya that he gets to be honored in a place he was truly loved.  I LOVED Paul Kariya as much as a fan can while he was in Anaheim.  But I'm not excited about the jersey retirement because the way he left will never sit right with me, and as a fan of the Ducks, I'm not going to apologize or be shamed by people who think I should get over it. 

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20 minutes ago, gorbachav5 said:

I'm going to bow out of this thread because it frustrates me to talk about it. 

Same here. I'm celebrating what he did on the ice and leaving the business side out of it. Business can get ugly and it did in this situation. Off the floor on the board is still one of the greatest moments in Ducks history. That's what I'm celebrating.

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Those who feel the he deserves this honor due to his accomplishments in Anaheim will not change their minds, nor will those who feel he does Not deserve the honor, due to the actions he took when he left.  It's been that way since that day, and will always remain so.

It seems to me, that a jersey # retirement is something there should be consensus on, and be supported by most if not all of the team's fans and supporters.  Clearly that is not the case here.  Perhaps it isn't the same with Scottie either, since some feel he was not here long enough.  I think Giguere getting his # retired would be something the fans could get fully behind, and I'm sure Getzlaf and maybe even Perry are shoe ins when their time comes.  PK will be the only Mighty Duck who was not also an Anaheim Duck, that will likely ever be considered, and I have no doubt the club wants to have that period as the Mighty Ducks represented in the rafters.

Judging by the amount of unsold seats remaining, many of them non-ticket exchange tickets, I'd say there is nowhere near the demand you might normally expect from such a significant occasion in a hockey club's history.  I'm sure they'll sell plenty of merch, and the building will appear full, but there are enough fans who remember, and still feel as I do, enough that our lukewarm response to this retirement will certainly diminish what, as I said, should be widespread support and agreement.

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"Judging by the amount of unsold seats remaining, many of them non-ticket exchange tickets, I'd say there is nowhere near the demand you might normally expect from such a significant occasion in a hockey club's history.  I'm sure they'll sell plenty of merch, and the building will appear full, but there are enough fans who remember, and still feel as I do, enough that our lukewarm response to this retirement will certainly diminish what, as I said, should be widespread support and agreement."

I was there and it was sold out according to the announcement. What makes you say there were unsold seats? It was horrendous getting in there too, absolutely horrendous.

Edited by JadeDragonEyes
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1 hour ago, JadeDragonEyes said:

I was there and it was sold out according to the announcement. What makes you say there were unsold seats? It was horrendous getting in there too, absolutely horrendous.

I looked on Ticketmaster that morning, and there were lots of tickets still for sale, both Face Value and Resale.  Not sure how it managed to sell out, unless there were a lot of walk up sales.

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the seats weren't full during the ceremony.  however, it was well attended.

frankly, it fit PK's personality and career to a T.  only those that really cared showed up, and there were more than you might have thought.

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1 minute ago, Fisix said:

the seats weren't full during the ceremony.  however, it was well attended.

frankly, it fit PK's personality and career to a T.  only those that really cared showed up, and there were more than you might have thought.

There was a small section during the ceremony that had unsold seats. By game time, those seats were full and it was a sell out.

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I have attended the Event on Sunday....I will tell you my first hand experience. It was emotional,historic and event full of joy and appreciation for Ducks Legend we call Paul Kariya. Having his number raised while many in attendance............was incredible sight to be hold. Made me reflect over the past 25 years of the games I saw both live,on tv and listening via Internet radio. Made me appreciate not only Ducks in General but Paul Kariya himself.....Much can be said about him whether you love him or hate him. But he was Ducks first Hockey Superstar. To me I will always remember the Number 9 raised as with all great Moments we have see for the Ducks. honestly I shed a tear and felt emotional from the start to beginning of the Event.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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On 10/24/2018 at 9:22 AM, JadeDragonEyes said:

"Judging by the amount of unsold seats remaining, many of them non-ticket exchange tickets, I'd say there is nowhere near the demand you might normally expect from such a significant occasion in a hockey club's history.  I'm sure they'll sell plenty of merch, and the building will appear full, but there are enough fans who remember, and still feel as I do, enough that our lukewarm response to this retirement will certainly diminish what, as I said, should be widespread support and agreement."

I was there and it was sold out according to the announcement. What makes you say there were unsold seats? It was horrendous getting in there too, absolutely horrendous.

That was an understatement. They wanted everybody in their seats by 3:15 yet there was ZERO traffic control at that time. The backup on the 57 was ridiculous. 

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