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Trouble on the horizon for RC?

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1 hour ago, Jasoaks said:

Well, I think RC coached a hell of a playoffs in 2017 and yeah, we got swept in 2018 -- which is obviously very bad. But in my eyes, he's even then. I don't understand what happened to our D. I don't think they are bad. They weren't bad. I'm guessing it's the new assistant coach that is making things a little uncomfortable with the D. That's my best guess. But they've improved. And we show signs of being a great team -- right now -- injured players and all -- RC coaching.

I do believe long-term interest is something very important to be looking at. But I'd rather have a very good up and coming forward right now. We can't waste Gibson's best years. I don't know the usual time it takes for a prospect to become a game-changing player. But I just get worried that drafting high right now isn't going to get us the players we need to not waste Gibson's prime. I would think we need to trade for that.

2017 was a weird and different year. Calgary's goaltending helped gift wrap our series sweep and if not for one of the most improbable comebacks in a playoff game in history, the Ducks don't get past an inexperienced Oilers team. We've talked on here about how awful the Pacific Division has been over the last couple of seasons and I think that you can attribute the Ducks making the  2017 WCF in no small part because of it. You can say that injuries were the death knell against Nashville but Nashville was the better team and has gotten better since then. They are one of the elite teams in the NHL and are serious contenders. Also, the Ducks had Vatanen and Theodore in 2017 so our blue line was far more talented. Either way, I agree that there is no way the Ducks should be so atrocious on defense and I think that Carlyle/Murray are mostly responsible for it.

Last season, it wasn't just that the Ducks got swept, but the fact that were so outplayed, out-executed and just dominated by the Sharks while have home-ice advantage. It was demoralizing and exposed the Ducks' flaws that still need to be addressed. Unfortunately, that's very hard to do with the contracts that they have and like you said, we have no idea how any of our prospects will turn out. Although, we know that none of them are ready for full-time NHL duty this season. We wasted the best regular season by a Ducks goaltender last year (while not getting a lottery pick), and are going more than likely going to do that again this year. The Ducks don't have the coaching or roster construction to change that right now, which is why I hope that the Ducks get a lottery pick as a way to hopefully bring in the game-breaking player that they need. I agree that a trade or two will be necessary and likely forced due to the looming expansion draft. I think that they once they see how Larsson and Mahura develop this season, they would be more inclined to make a move in the off-season, but not until then. The Ducks have looked a little better recently, but they are still playing pretty bad hockey overall and it's not nearly enough to avoid wasting another season of Gibson. It sucks, but I'd rather go through the pain this year and take a big step forward then have a repeat of last season.

 

 

 

Edited by BombaysTripleDeke
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8 hours ago, RobD360 said:

I like your thinking very project manager-ish. The question is then, what is the age range of Gibson’s golden years and do we have time to first acquire then train that player so he is ready to meet that time period. Or we trade for that impact player soon. 

That is the question. Couldn't say what the answer is...but, well, if we think he has some Rinne years in him, could be 10 seasons of him. But Rinne didn't face the amount of shots Gibson is...sooo...could be more like Quick...got another 5- 6...which isn't much to try and pry open that stanley cup window...considering for half of that we're basically stuck with Getz, Perry, and Kesler.

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8 hours ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

2017 was a weird and different year. Calgary's goaltending helped gift wrap our series sweep and if not for one of the most improbable comebacks in a playoff game in history, the Ducks don't get past an inexperienced Oilers team. We've talked on here about how awful the Pacific Division has been over the last couple of seasons and I think that you can attribute the Ducks making the  2017 WCF in no small part because of it. You can say that injuries were the death knell against Nashville but Nashville was the better team and has gotten better since then. They are one of the elite teams in the NHL and are serious contenders. Also, the Ducks had Vatanen and Theodore in 2017 so our blue line was far more talented. Either way, I agree that there is no way the Ducks should be so atrocious on defense and I think that Carlyle/Murray are mostly responsible for it.

Last season, it wasn't just that the Ducks got swept, but the fact that were so outplayed, out-executed and just dominated by the Sharks while have home-ice advantage. It was demoralizing and exposed the Ducks' flaws that still need to be addressed. Unfortunately, that's very hard to do with the contracts that they have and like you said, we have no idea how any of our prospects will turn out. Although, we know that none of them are ready for full-time NHL duty this season. We wasted the best regular season by a Ducks goaltender last year (while not getting a lottery pick), and are going more than likely going to do that again this year. The Ducks don't have the coaching or roster construction to change that right now, which is why I hope that the Ducks get a lottery pick as a way to hopefully bring in the game-breaking player that they need. I agree that a trade or two will be necessary and likely forced due to the looming expansion draft. I think that they once they see how Larsson and Mahura develop this season, they would be more inclined to make a move in the off-season, but not until then. The Ducks have looked a little better recently, but they are still playing pretty bad hockey overall and it's not nearly enough to avoid wasting another season of Gibson. It sucks, but I'd rather go through the pain this year and take a big step forward then have a repeat of last season.

 

 

 

That's actually a very good point. A lot of our 2017 success did come from just mistakes of the opposition. I can definitely see that.

And, yeah, I definitely see the value on sitting back. And now that I'm thinking about it, I mean, teams have actually been doing some quick turn arounds. We are close to being a very strong team. We have a great goalie and some amazing D (that for some reason aren't playing at their potential together right now...)...and a center that can still dominate the game.

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So... No one else saw the last Ducks Live? Can't blame you, I never do. I just happened to catch it with Ilya Bryzgalov. Who may have mentioned he wants an NHL coaching job.

Probably not the best candidate but, can you imagine that guys post game comments? It's worth sacking RC for it alone.

I'm all in for Ilya.

Edited by poum
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10 hours ago, poum said:

So... No one else saw the last Ducks Live? Can't blame you, I never do. I just happened to catch it with Ilya Bryzgalov. Who may have mentioned he wants an NHL coaching job.

Probably not the best candidate but, can you imagine that guys post game comments? It's worth sacking RC for it alone.

I'm all in for Ilya.

Bryz as Coach...wondering if Hockey Players will tolerate his funny Nonsense.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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19 hours ago, Jasoaks said:

That is the question. Couldn't say what the answer is...but, well, if we think he has some Rinne years in him, could be 10 seasons of him. But Rinne didn't face the amount of shots Gibson is...sooo...could be more like Quick...got another 5- 6...which isn't much to try and pry open that stanley cup window...considering for half of that we're basically stuck with Getz, Perry, and Kesler.

Not sure what you mean here. Seems like you are implying that Quick's best years are behind him...that is not the case, however. Last year he posted a 2.40GAA average and .921SV%, which was the 2nd highest save percentage he's recorded in a season. Plus he's 32...prime age for a goalie, even an injury prone one like Gibson or Quick.

Goalies age much better than normal skaters and have longer lasting primes because of it. If you think Gibson's level of play is sustainable, there is no reason to think he can't continue to play the way he is playing for another 10+ years barring a major injury.

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10 hours ago, poum said:

So... No one else saw the last Ducks Live? Can't blame you, I never do. I just happened to catch it with Ilya Bryzgalov. Who may have mentioned he wants an NHL coaching job.

Should probably see if he can handle goalie coach first. If he wants some action, I heard the Flyers are still looking to solve their issues in net...

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1 hour ago, BlazingEtem said:

Not sure what you mean here. Seems like you are implying that Quick's best years are behind him...that is not the case, however. Last year he posted a 2.40GAA average and .921SV%, which was the 2nd highest save percentage he's recorded in a season. Plus he's 32...prime age for a goalie, even an injury prone one like Gibson or Quick.

Goalies age much better than normal skaters and have longer lasting primes because of it. If you think Gibson's level of play is sustainable, there is no reason to think he can't continue to play the way he is playing for another 10+ years barring a major injury.

Yeah I have no idea how goalie's age. There doesn't seem to be very many that last that long competitively. Yeah, I see where I was wrong about Quick. But I don't see very many in the mid 30s that are still posting very competitive numbers like Rinne and Miller are. Right now there are 16 goalies in the NHL that are 33 or over. 4 of them are in the top 10 in sv %. 2 more if you make it the top 20. That's impressive no doubt. But it's not the majority of goalies of that age. But, when speaking "competitively" ...what sv % would one consider that? If we were to say .910 and above...that would put a total of 8 goalies in that category from the 33 and over bucket. So, half. That's not too bad. Half of the 33 and over goalies in the league are posting competitive sv %. So yeah, I could definitely see a case where Gibson could have 10+ seasons left of being competitive...

So, to bring it all back...that's probably enough time to draft high right now and grow a very good prospect lol

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12 hours ago, poum said:

So... No one else saw the last Ducks Live? Can't blame you, I never do. I just happened to catch it with Ilya Bryzgalov. Who may have mentioned he wants an NHL coaching job.

Probably not the best candidate but, can you imagine that guys post game comments? It's worth sacking RC for it alone.

I'm all in for Ilya.

The post game pressers would be must watch tv.

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1 hour ago, Jasoaks said:

Yeah I have no idea how goalie's age. There doesn't seem to be very many that last that long competitively. Yeah, I see where I was wrong about Quick. But I don't see very many in the mid 30s that are still posting very competitive numbers like Rinne and Miller are. Right now there are 16 goalies in the NHL that are 33 or over. 4 of them are in the top 10 in sv %. 2 more if you make it the top 20. That's impressive no doubt. But it's not the majority of goalies of that age. But, when speaking "competitively" ...what sv % would one consider that? If we were to say .910 and above...that would put a total of 8 goalies in that category from the 33 and over bucket. So, half. That's not too bad. Half of the 33 and over goalies in the league are posting competitive sv %. So yeah, I could definitely see a case where Gibson could have 10+ seasons left of being competitive...

So, to bring it all back...that's probably enough time to draft high right now and grow a very good prospect lol

In my opinion, Miller is rare anomaly that we are lucky to have. Goalies around his age that become backups tend to slow down when their work rate becomes less. King Henrik has to be sharp because he's out there almost every night, but Miller has gone weeks without action before and is still sharp. He is probably the best backup in the league, imo.

Imagine having Miller instead of freakin Bernier 2 years ago in the playoffs against Nashville.

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13 minutes ago, BlazingEtem said:

In my opinion, Miller is rare anomaly that we are lucky to have. Goalies around his age that become backups tend to slow down when their work rate becomes less. King Henrik has to be sharp because he's out there almost every night, but Miller has gone weeks without action before and is still sharp. He is probably the best backup in the league, imo.

Imagine having Miller instead of freakin Bernier 2 years ago in the playoffs against Nashville.

Oh I imagine that almost every day lol

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13 hours ago, BlazingEtem said:

In my opinion, Miller is rare anomaly that we are lucky to have. Goalies around his age that become backups tend to slow down when their work rate becomes less. King Henrik has to be sharp because he's out there almost every night, but Miller has gone weeks without action before and is still sharp. He is probably the best backup in the league, imo.

Imagine having Miller instead of freakin Bernier 2 years ago in the playoffs against Nashville.

AGREE - also I think that RC has punched his ticket for the rest of the year. Our playoffs ( which I am certain we will make ) will tell the tale if he will remain !!

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Kudos to RC, seems like he reads this cite once in a while and takes a constructive criticism from Ducks fans. It's obvious that he made some necessary adjustments and it finally pays off,  based on recent team's performance. Only a good, very experienced coach can achieve a record as is from the roster that dealing with multiple injuries, consists from overpaid aging veterans, borderline NHL players, pick ups from the waivers and rookies.  To the contrary, just look at cross town organization, a team that has so many talented players yet plays so poor. Did coaching change help them?

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On 12/3/2018 at 10:24 AM, DUCKSDOC said:

AGREE - also I think that RC has punched his ticket for the rest of the year. Our playoffs ( which I am certain we will make ) will tell the tale if he will remain !!

While I agree I think RC is safe for a while, if you believe the advanced stats and metrics, this team could fall off a cliff at any moment... perhaps hastening a change.

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On 12/3/2018 at 11:24 AM, DUCKSDOC said:

AGREE - also I think that RC has punched his ticket for the rest of the year. Our playoffs ( which I am certain we will make ) will tell the tale if he will remain !!

I think Anaheim makes the playoffs too....but I don't give them much chance of going deep. The biggest reason they make it is because the Pacific division is terrible.

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8 hours ago, ZTHER said:

While I agree I think RC is safe for a while, if you believe the advanced stats and metrics, this team could fall off a cliff at any moment... perhaps hastening a change.

RC is going to be safe regardless of what happens. Murray's fallback reasoning (excuse) for not caning him will be injuries if the Ducks fall of a cliff. If Anaheim stays in playoff contention in a very weak Pacific Division he can always say he had faith in his coach. If the Ducks get booted in the first round again then big deal, RC was in the last year of his contract and now is the time for change. Murray's bases are covered for not getting of RC.

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29 minutes ago, perry_mvp said:

RC is going to be safe regardless of what happens. Murray's fallback reasoning (excuse) for not caning him will be injuries if the Ducks fall of a cliff.

I kept wanting to read that as "caring".  Took me forever to realize it was a strong caning reference.  

Well played.

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9 minutes ago, gotchabari said:

I kept wanting to read that as "caring".  Took me forever to realize it was a strong caning reference.  

Well played.

I guess my old man eyes where wrong as well as my spelling. I meant "canning"..lol

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4 hours ago, perry_mvp said:

I guess my old man eyes where wrong as well as my spelling. I meant "canning"..lol

I like "caning" better.  MUCH more creative, and has an international flair.

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4 hours ago, perry_mvp said:

I guess my old man eyes where wrong as well as my spelling. I meant "canning"..lol

I saw it as CANEING - as with a cane and 25 lashes-one for each year the Ducks have been in existence  - make that 24 - he gets a pass on the 2007 SC Win !!! :P

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41 minutes ago, DUCKSDOC said:

I saw it as CANEING - as with a cane and 25 lashes-one for each year the Ducks have been in existence  - make that 24 - he gets a pass on the 2007 SC Win !!! :P

But the Ducks have been around for 26 years....Celebrating their 25th anniversary this year. So if RC gets a caning then BM should get one too...to set the example. Give 'em a pass for the Cup though.:D

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54 minutes ago, DUCKSDOC said:

I saw it as CANEING - as with a cane and 25 lashes-one for each year the Ducks have been in existence  - make that 24 - he gets a pass on the 2007 SC Win !!! :P

I saw it as "canoeing" like he was going to set Randy out in the middle of the ocean in a flimsy boat.

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2 hours ago, gorbachav5 said:

I saw it as "canoeing" like he was going to set Randy out in the middle of the ocean in a flimsy boat.

LOL....Oh Brother.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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On 12/7/2018 at 7:48 AM, nieder said:

I think Anaheim makes the playoffs too....but I don't give them much chance of going deep. The biggest reason they make it is because the Pacific division is terrible.

Don't disagree on why the Ducks make the playoffs, but I think they could actually make some noise when they get there this year. Mostly because we have a guy named Gibson who could easily have a '03 Giguere-like performance. And that's all it takes.

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6 minutes ago, Thom-74 said:

Don't disagree on why the Ducks make the playoffs, but I think they could actually make some noise when they get there this year. Mostly because we have a guy named Gibson who could easily have a '03 Giguere-like performance. And that's all it takes.

Yeah, but we had “The Great Gibson” last season and got wrecked when it mattered. The Ducks are far too bad/inconsistent for him to carry them on a deep playoff run. I don’t see the Ducks making the kind of improvement necessary to change their overall dependency on goaltending this year (they didn’t do it during the off-season). I’m all aboard the lottery pick band wagon at this point.

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29 minutes ago, Thom-74 said:

Don't disagree on why the Ducks make the playoffs, but I think they could actually make some noise when they get there this year. Mostly because we have a guy named Gibson who could easily have a '03 Giguere-like performance. And that's all it takes.

I agree. You make the playoffs anything can happen.

 

14 minutes ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

Yeah, but we had “The Great Gibson” last season and got wrecked when it mattered. The Ducks are far too bad/inconsistent for him to carry them on a deep playoff run. I don’t see the Ducks making the kind of improvement necessary to change their overall dependency on goaltending this year (they didn’t do it during the off-season). I’m all aboard the lottery pick band wagon at this point.

Yeah, Gibson didn't get hot and wasn't stellar in that series. Him and the Ducks didn't look like Jekyll in that series...they looked like Hyde...aka between their two personalities, the really bad one came out. If the really good one came out, that could have been a win. Statistically unlikely...but, that's the crazy thing about the playoffs...you might as well throw stats out the window. Anything can happen. We have the players where an "unlikely run" can happen.

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4 minutes ago, Jasoaks said:

I agree. You make the playoffs anything can happen.

 

Yeah, Gibson didn't get hot and wasn't stellar in that series. Him and the Ducks didn't look like Jekyll in that series...they looked like Hyde...aka between their two personalities, the really bad one came out. If the really good one came out, that could have been a win. Statistically unlikely...but, that's the crazy thing about the playoffs...you might as well throw stats out the window. Anything can happen. We have the players where an "unlikely run" can happen.

I think the bigger issue is that the Ducks were so bad that it wouldn’t have mattered how well he played. He wasn’t bad in that series. The team still has to give him a chance and they couldn’t and still can’t.

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Since BM has gotten his extension and he basically RC isn't going to get fired can this thread just go away or change the name?  It's like having a great meal just out of reach... 

 

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4 hours ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

I think the bigger issue is that the Ducks were so bad that it wouldn’t have mattered how well he played. He wasn’t bad in that series. The team still has to give him a chance and they couldn’t and still can’t.

Yeah, absolutely. Gibson wasn't bad at all. The team in front of him was. But I'm just saying...if the team that played against Toronto or Tampa Bay or Nashville (the first time) shows up...we have a good chance at winning that series. Why they are so inconsistent is beyond me lol

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