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Trouble on the horizon for RC?

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  • 28 minutes ago, Fowl said:

Lose for Hughes....we’re only eight points out of the top spot,   

against DET, PHI, OTS, LAK, CHI, EDM we have no chance to win the lottery, ask Bettman...

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Bruce did not have playoff mojo. Bob got him.

Randy was painfully obvious behind the curve when he coached Toronto - it was a risk to begin with, but he promised he's changed and they let him try. Bob got him.

To me this coaching thing is more a GMBM problem then the coaches themselves. WSH didn't win it under Bruce, Minny still sucks with him. Randy likely got Carried by Pronger-Niedermayer-Selanne.

Find a genuine great coach, Bob. You failed twice. Maybe there is a 3-strike rule, and you'll hang on for now, but get a coach that works well with the team you've assembled.

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10 hours ago, DucksFan_08 said:

Could we maybe like get a petition going to get Carlyle fired? I'm sure you'll find plenty of people in HC who want to sign. I can't believe he's still our coach. And same for BM. I've had it with him. Only problem is Chiarelli is available. We wouldn't want that :lol:

Murray's not going anywhere.  He just signed an extension.  My guess is that he's convinced the top brass that they're not going to get an ideal coaching candidate midseason and that firing Carlyle now would end the relationship with the team when he thinks he'll be fine in a scouting/front office role.  The season is close to being lost anyway, so they might as well ride it out and then go through a proper hiring process in the offseason.  If Quenneville is committed to taking the rest of the year off, there aren't any Boudreau-like candidates available right now.

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8 hours ago, Aksun said:

Bruce did not have playoff mojo. Bob got him.

Randy was painfully obvious behind the curve when he coached Toronto - it was a risk to begin with, but he promised he's changed and they let him try. Bob got him.

To me this coaching thing is more a GMBM problem then the coaches themselves. WSH didn't win it under Bruce, Minny still sucks with him. Randy likely got Carried by Pronger-Niedermayer-Selanne.

Find a genuine great coach, Bob. You failed twice. Maybe there is a 3-strike rule, and you'll hang on for now, but get a coach that works well with the team you've assembled.

Boudreau is a genuinely great coach for the regular season and just an okay coach in the playoffs.  I think that was a fantastic hire by Murray.  There was no way to know at the time of the hire that Boudreau's playoff issues weren't simply sample size related.

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8 hours ago, Aksun said:

Bruce did not have playoff mojo. Bob got him.

Randy was painfully obvious behind the curve when he coached Toronto - it was a risk to begin with, but he promised he's changed and they let him try. Bob got him.

To me this coaching thing is more a GMBM problem then the coaches themselves. WSH didn't win it under Bruce, Minny still sucks with him. Randy likely got Carried by Pronger-Niedermayer-Selanne.

Find a genuine great coach, Bob. You failed twice. Maybe there is a 3-strike rule, and you'll hang on for now, but get a coach that works well with the team you've assembled.

Any coach could have won with that 06-07 team...way too much talent and heart even for RC to destroy.

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36 minutes ago, gorbachav5 said:

Murray's not going anywhere.  He just signed an extension.  My guess is that he's convinced the top brass that they're not going to get an ideal coaching candidate midseason and that firing Carlyle now would end the relationship with the team when he thinks he'll be fine in a scouting/front office role.  The season is close to being lost anyway, so they might as well ride it out and then go through a proper hiring process in the offseason.  If Quenneville is committed to taking the rest of the year off, there aren't any Boudreau-like candidates available right now.

Right on - hopefully we will have a GREAT new coach - Quenn would be a good addition to the team but I don't believe he would want a small market team that has as many deficiencies as the Ducks have.  Hope I'm wrong it would be an interesting year or three to see what could happen. IMHO

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46 minutes ago, gorbachav5 said:

Murray's not going anywhere.  He just signed an extension.  My guess is that he's convinced the top brass that they're not going to get an ideal coaching candidate midseason and that firing Carlyle now would end the relationship with the team when he thinks he'll be fine in a scouting/front office role.  The season is close to being lost anyway, so they might as well ride it out and then go through a proper hiring process in the offseason.  If Quenneville is committed to taking the rest of the year off, there aren't any Boudreau-like candidates available right now.

This season may be lost but why waste time getting a new coach? Vigneault is available. Try Eakins. 

The thing is I can't believe this team is as bad as the results are showing. I think some players don't give a crap anymore and that's not a healthy situation for all those young guys currently on the team. 

So dump Carlyle and let him stay on as scout for all I care. Without Gibson we'd be looking at a 15-game losing streak. Even RC would understand that's fire worthy. We just come off a 5-1 home loss against a team that's about equal standingswise. We have a long break ahead. Excellent time to fire the coach!

 

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15 minutes ago, DucksFan_08 said:

This season may be lost but why waste time getting a new coach? Vigneault is available. Try Eakins. 

The thing is I can't believe this team is as bad as the results are showing. I think some players don't give a crap anymore and that's not a healthy situation for all those young guys currently on the team. 

So dump Carlyle and let him stay on as scout for all I care. Without Gibson we'd be looking at a 15-game losing streak. Even RC would understand that's fire worthy. We just come off a 5-1 home loss against a team that's about equal standingswise. We have a long break ahead. Excellent time to fire the coach!

 

Your comments make so much sense and I am sure others feel the same.

sadly I don’t think anything changes 

it is brutal for fan support 

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16 minutes ago, hoxxey said:

Your comments make so much sense and I am sure others feel the same.

sadly I don’t think anything changes 

it is brutal for fan support 

Thanks. But you're right. It's hard being a Ducksfan these days.

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A whole year taken away from player's careers no wonder Getz was piddleed.

 Looking at last night 's D grouping group next season Del Zotto will be 29 , Fowler and Manson 28,  Welinski 26,

 Montour , Lindholm and Dotchin 25.

Hopefully we will have a few more young kids breaking through to the lineup, some that know how to clear the net in front of Gibby would be a plus.

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Some quotes from Randy after Stl loss...same old song and dance.

 

"The bottom line is, we had a team come in here and outwork our hockey club tonight," Ducks coach Randy Carlyle said. "We're not going to accept that."

"We just seemed like we were slower than they were, and they had more jump and more energy, and they owned the puck," Carlyle said. "We didn't have the puck and we hung our goaltender out to dry."

 

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 Somebody should have asked him - “what are you going to do about it?”

 Hundred bucks says he would’ve terminated the interview 

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2 hours ago, DucksFan_08 said:

This season may be lost but why waste time getting a new coach? Vigneault is available. Try Eakins. 

The thing is I can't believe this team is as bad as the results are showing. I think some players don't give a crap anymore and that's not a healthy situation for all those young guys currently on the team. 

So dump Carlyle and let him stay on as scout for all I care. Without Gibson we'd be looking at a 15-game losing streak. Even RC would understand that's fire worthy. We just come off a 5-1 home loss against a team that's about equal standingswise. We have a long break ahead. Excellent time to fire the coach!

 

Overall, I agree with you.  The team didn't come into this season looking to tank, and Gibson's too good to let them tank completely, so it doesn't make sense to toss the rest of the season into the dumpster.  Plus they're miraculously still in the hunt for a Wild Card spot, so who knows?  And if they're still trying to win, it makes no sense to keep Carlyle around.

That said, I don't think Murray will make a move for a few reasons.  One, he's trying to save face.  He just got an extension and isn't looking to completely undermine his own decision making before that extension even kicks in.  By waiting until year end, he can avoid firing Carlyle and looking like he failed in the coaching hire (even though he did).  And he can always point to injuries if he wants to justify Carlyle's continued employment, even though we all know that's garbage.

Two, Carlyle is his friend, and I think Murray really wants him to stay in the organization.  Unless Carlyle himself comes in and says he's stepping down, I think Murray will find it difficult to fire him from his coaching spot AND keep him in the organization without people asking a lot of tough questions.  It will be much easier to pull off in the offseason when Carlyle's contract runs out and Murray can claim this was always the plan.

Three, it will be much easier to do a proper coaching search in the offseason.  The only no-brainer hire who's not currently coaching is Quenneville, and he's been pretty clear he's not looking to jump to another team this season.  I hope we don't want Vigneault.  I'd consider Tippett, but he's also made statements that he's not looking to coach right now. Those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head. Eakins is the only one who makes some sense to give him a half season tryout, but 1) I'm not convinced he'll actually be a good NHL coach and 2) It would probably be unfair to judge his success with a roster where one half is injured and the other half seems to have given up.

I think the Ducks would be better off with just about anyone else behind the bench, and I think they should make a change, even if just to an interim guy.  But I also think that Murray has enough built in excuses that he can avoid making the move and stay employed.

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4 hours ago, gorbachav5 said:

Boudreau is a genuinely great coach for the regular season and just an okay coach in the playoffs.  I think that was a fantastic hire by Murray.  There was no way to know at the time of the hire that Boudreau's playoff issues weren't simply sample size related.

Good assessment

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34 minutes ago, gorbachav5 said:

Overall, I agree with you.  The team didn't come into this season looking to tank, and Gibson's too good to let them tank completely, so it doesn't make sense to toss the rest of the season into the dumpster.  Plus they're miraculously still in the hunt for a Wild Card spot, so who knows?  And if they're still trying to win, it makes no sense to keep Carlyle around.

That said, I don't think Murray will make a move for a few reasons.  One, he's trying to save face.  He just got an extension and isn't looking to completely undermine his own decision making before that extension even kicks in.  By waiting until year end, he can avoid firing Carlyle and looking like he failed in the coaching hire (even though he did).  And he can always point to injuries if he wants to justify Carlyle's continued employment, even though we all know that's garbage.

Two, Carlyle is his friend, and I think Murray really wants him to stay in the organization.  Unless Carlyle himself comes in and says he's stepping down, I think Murray will find it difficult to fire him from his coaching spot AND keep him in the organization without people asking a lot of tough questions.  It will be much easier to pull off in the offseason when Carlyle's contract runs out and Murray can claim this was always the plan.

Three, it will be much easier to do a proper coaching search in the offseason.  The only no-brainer hire who's not currently coaching is Quenneville, and he's been pretty clear he's not looking to jump to another team this season.  I hope we don't want Vigneault.  I'd consider Tippett, but he's also made statements that he's not looking to coach right now. Those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head. Eakins is the only one who makes some sense to give him a half season tryout, but 1) I'm not convinced he'll actually be a good NHL coach and 2) It would probably be unfair to judge his success with a roster where one half is injured and the other half seems to have given up.

I think the Ducks would be better off with just about anyone else behind the bench, and I think they should make a change, even if just to an interim guy.  But I also think that Murray has enough built in excuses that he can avoid making the move and stay employed.

I have an issue with #3 because I'm pretty positive the Ducks will not be the only franchise looking for a new head coach. A few large market teams with deep pockets (LA and Chicago) will almost certainly be looking. Gordon still has an interim label in Philly and they have sunk to 28th in the league standings, so Philly will also probably be on the hunt. And Berube still has the interim label in St Louis too, and he could be out if they don't make the playoffs. McDavid will almost certainly be getting a new coach in Edmonton.  And even Boudreau could be on the hot seat if the Wild doesn't get past the 1st round this year since he is a holdover from the Fletcher regime. So that's a lot of competition for the pool of qualified head coaches. What makes Anaheim a more attractive option this summer than Chicago, LA, Philadelphia, St Louis, Minnesota and McDavidton? Certainly not GMBM's reluctance to let our coaches hire their own assistants, or our aging core, or our non-traditional market vibe, or the fact that we get penalized more than any team in the league..... no, I think that if we wait until summer to compete with other teams looking for coaches, it will be much harder to get a good coach in the offseason. If there are decent coaches available now, we should be chasing them now.

Changing now would also give the new coach a head start on evaluating talent and roles for next season, just like it did for Boudreau. Would there have been a Cogs-Koivu-Winnik line charging out of the gate to start the 2013 shortened season if not for BB getting a good look at Cogs and Koivu in 2012? Doubtful. GMBM had it in mind for Selanne and Koivu to be stapled to each other and for Cogs to be our #3C, but BB's ability to tinker with the forwards during that lost half season in 2012 set us up for the 2013 turn-around. I'm ready to see something similar right now, and it kills me that you first two points are the reason we won't see it.

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27 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

I have an issue with #3 because I'm pretty positive the Ducks will not be the only franchise looking for a new head coach. A few large market teams with deep pockets (LA and Chicago) will almost certainly be looking. Gordon still has an interim label in Philly and they have sunk to 28th in the league standings, so Philly will also probably be on the hunt. And Berube still has the interim label in St Louis too, and he could be out if they don't make the playoffs. McDavid will almost certainly be getting a new coach in Edmonton.  And even Boudreau could be on the hot seat if the Wild doesn't get past the 1st round this year since he is a holdover from the Fletcher regime. So that's a lot of competition for the pool of qualified head coaches. What makes Anaheim a more attractive option this summer than Chicago, LA, Philadelphia, St Louis, Minnesota and McDavidton? Certainly not GMBM's reluctance to let our coaches hire their own assistants, or our aging core, or our non-traditional market vibe, or the fact that we get penalized more than any team in the league..... no, I think that if we wait until summer to compete with other teams looking for coaches, it will be much harder to get a good coach in the offseason. If there are decent coaches available now, we should be chasing them now.

Changing now would also give the new coach a head start on evaluating talent and roles for next season, just like it did for Boudreau. Would there have been a Cogs-Koivu-Winnik line charging out of the gate to start the 2013 shortened season if not for BB getting a good look at Cogs and Koivu in 2012? Doubtful. GMBM had it in mind for Selanne and Koivu to be stapled to each other and for Cogs to be our #3C, but BB's ability to tinker with the forwards during that lost half season in 2012 set us up for the 2013 turn-around. I'm ready to see something similar right now, and it kills me that you first two points are the reason we won't see it.

Who is available now that looks like a good hire to you?  All of these points you make - and they're all valid points - are just as true now as they will be in June.  If I'm Joel Quenneville, what makes Anaheim more attractive to me right this second?  Why not wait until the summer when I can get offers from a bunch of places I might like?  The guys who will be in demand are either veteran coaches who might as well wait and see who comes calling, or they're young up-and-comers who probably don't want to move midseason unless they're already part of the organization (like Eakins).

So two honest questions: 1) How often does a guy from outside the organization who currently has a job leave that job midseason for another team? And 2) Who is out there that you might want who will listen to Murray right now?  I just don't think Quenneville, Tippett, or even Vigneault are walking through that door any time soon.  Actually, I could see Vigneault taking the job, but I really hope he's not the guy we decide on.

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46 minutes ago, gorbachav5 said:

Who is available now that looks like a good hire to you?  All of these points you make - and they're all valid points - are just as true now as they will be in June.  If I'm Joel Quenneville, what makes Anaheim more attractive to me right this second?  Why not wait until the summer when I can get offers from a bunch of places I might like?  The guys who will be in demand are either veteran coaches who might as well wait and see who comes calling, or they're young up-and-comers who probably don't want to move midseason unless they're already part of the organization (like Eakins).

So two honest questions: 1) How often does a guy from outside the organization who currently has a job leave that job midseason for another team? And 2) Who is out there that you might want who will listen to Murray right now?  I just don't think Quenneville, Tippett, or even Vigneault are walking through that door any time soon.  Actually, I could see Vigneault taking the job, but I really hope he's not the guy we decide on.

Just names of NHL coaches off the top of my head who I believe are currently on the market (correct me if I'm wrong): Quenneville, Tippett, Vigneault, Paul MacLean, Todd McLellan, Adam Oates, Dallas Eakins, and of course DARRYL SUTTER. Any one of those guys would be preferable to Carlyle. I would think that all of those guys except Quenneville would listen to ANaheim right now.

Curious, which coach are you hoping we can nab this summer but is not currently available?

Edited by dtsdlaw

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1 minute ago, dtsdlaw said:

Currently a Red Wings assistant coach.

He could quit and sign with us as long as the Ducks are given permission to speak to him.

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3 hours ago, gorbachav5 said:

Carlyle is his friend, and I think Murray really wants him to stay in the organization.

That's why I think Murray needs to be sent packing. Enough of the good old boys club. The Ducks need a fresh start with a new face running the team. Is it going to happen? Nope but it's nice to have a little glimmer of hope.

 

1 hour ago, dtsdlaw said:

Curious, which coach are you hoping we can nab this summer but is not currently available?

In all honesty, I wish it wasn't up to Murray. I really don't think the current pool besides Quennville could really do anything. Eakins would be good but I like him in San Diego. I don't have any names because, well, I really don't pay attention to the AHL or the college ranks but I do believe the best shot at getting a coach that can work with the younger guys will come from there.

Edited by perry_mvp

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Having Randy Carlyle stay with the Ducks till the end is the most Foolishly Stubborn Move.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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9 hours ago, gorbachav5 said:

Overall, I agree with you.  The team didn't come into this season looking to tank, and Gibson's too good to let them tank completely, so it doesn't make sense to toss the rest of the season into the dumpster.  Plus they're miraculously still in the hunt for a Wild Card spot, so who knows?  And if they're still trying to win, it makes no sense to keep Carlyle around.

That said, I don't think Murray will make a move for a few reasons.  One, he's trying to save face.  He just got an extension and isn't looking to completely undermine his own decision making before that extension even kicks in.  By waiting until year end, he can avoid firing Carlyle and looking like he failed in the coaching hire (even though he did).  And he can always point to injuries if he wants to justify Carlyle's continued employment, even though we all know that's garbage.

Two, Carlyle is his friend, and I think Murray really wants him to stay in the organization.  Unless Carlyle himself comes in and says he's stepping down, I think Murray will find it difficult to fire him from his coaching spot AND keep him in the organization without people asking a lot of tough questions.  It will be much easier to pull off in the offseason when Carlyle's contract runs out and Murray can claim this was always the plan.

Three, it will be much easier to do a proper coaching search in the offseason.  The only no-brainer hire who's not currently coaching is Quenneville, and he's been pretty clear he's not looking to jump to another team this season.  I hope we don't want Vigneault.  I'd consider Tippett, but he's also made statements that he's not looking to coach right now. Those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head. Eakins is the only one who makes some sense to give him a half season tryout, but 1) I'm not convinced he'll actually be a good NHL coach and 2) It would probably be unfair to judge his success with a roster where one half is injured and the other half seems to have given up.

I think the Ducks would be better off with just about anyone else behind the bench, and I think they should make a change, even if just to an interim guy.  But I also think that Murray has enough built in excuses that he can avoid making the move and stay employed.

Unfortunately for the team you're explanation makes a lot of sense. But how BM can sell that to ownership is beyond me. The fact that he failed the coaching hire is beyond obvious. Then again those damn injuries help both BM's and RC's case.

I'm not saying Vigneault would be my first choice but at this moment anything is better than Carlyle. Quenneville would be neat but I can't see him coming to Anaheim. Bylsma is an intriguing possibility.

I can see why BM would want to wait until the offseason but if the team keeps going on like this I'm pretty sure a few guys will say no thank you. Not to mention the atmosphere in the lockerroom might become poisonous. I'm pretty sure there are some players who take a day of once in a while. That's not a great recipe for team spirit.

Man do I hate this season.

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8 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

Just names of NHL coaches off the top of my head who I believe are currently on the market (correct me if I'm wrong): Quenneville, Tippett, Vigneault, Paul MacLean, Todd McLellan, Adam Oates, Dallas Eakins, and of course DARRYL SUTTER. Any one of those guys would be preferable to Carlyle. I would think that all of those guys except Quenneville would listen to ANaheim right now.

Curious, which coach are you hoping we can nab this summer but is not currently available?

I honestly don't know.  But of those coaches you mentioned, the only one I'm interested in long-term is Quenneville, and he has made it pretty clear that he's going to take some time off.  Maybe Sutter, although he doesn't seem like he's all that interested in getting back in the game.  Surely he's had teams call him, but we haven't heard a peep about him getting back behind the bench.  You're right that all of them are preferable to Carlyle, but again, if they're in demand, they'll just wait until the offseason coaching swap meet.

I don't have any clue whom the Ducks might want to hire, but EVERYONE is fair game during the summer except for entrenched NHL coaches - former NHL coaches, assistant coaches, up-and-coming AHL coaches, college coaches - the Ducks can do a proper search.  Right now they'll be limited.

I'm all for them firing Carlyle and bringing in someone on an interim basis, or going for a homerun and trying to get someone like Quenneville.  I just don't think Murray will do it, and it's the only piece of this that even kind of makes sense.  The rest of it is pure BS.

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I doubt Scotty Bowman or Al Arbour could get this bunch to win.  

Ride it out.  Lose for Hughes, and undertake a coaching search in the off-season. A coach can’t work miracles either....lots of personnel issues to deal with, and that ultimately will take a couple of years.

Edited by Fowl

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Guys, it's going to be Eakins, and there's no coach who'd come in to coach a half season.  We're stuck, it is what it is.

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