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opwe

Ducks Need Real Defense

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Watching the Ducks the past 3-4 games, it is apparent they need a "real" defense.  I mean a couple of big, mean, Pronger-types.  Fowler and the others are great in a skating game, but I feel they are not mean enough in front of the net.  There is no reason why the Ducks best players are the goalies every game.

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Was sacrificing Theodore to keep the VGK from taking Manson in the expansion draft the right move in hindsight? We would still have Theodore and possible Stoner( the needed grit player) if that deal was not made.

Bottom line is Manson is the only Dman trying to bring grit to the game. but he still lacks the experience and judgement on how far to take the physical play. And the entire team has seemingly forgotten how to get the puck out of the defensive zone or how to carry the puck into the offensive zone and sustain offensive pressure.

No clue how this can be fixed fast enough to keep this season from slipping away.

 

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3 hours ago, Shadowduck said:

Was sacrificing Theodore to keep the VGK from taking Manson in the expansion draft the right move in hindsight? We would still have Theodore and possible Stoner( the needed grit player) if that deal was not made.

Bottom line is Manson is the only Dman trying to bring grit to the game. but he still lacks the experience and judgement on how far to take the physical play. And the entire team has seemingly forgotten how to get the puck out of the defensive zone or how to carry the puck into the offensive zone and sustain offensive pressure.

No clue how this can be fixed fast enough to keep this season from slipping away.

 

For me I'm more perplexed by this sudden change. Even last year, when they were losing games due to how many injured players, we didn't look this bad. And when we had our full line-up we didn't look this bad. We looked this bad in the playoffs though.

But at least it's nice to see Gibson getting some well-deserved Vezina/Hart talk right now...

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The crazy shot counts are not just the defense pairings that are the cause.  Poor Gibson and Miller.  An occasional game with a lopsided shot count would be one thing, but it's every GD game. In this up-tempo trial, are the forwards always leaning the wrong way every second, waiting to release towards the offensive zone?  This might work, if they were able to score often.  But when our best offensive player was recently claimed off the NHL trash heap, they have to re-think and really help the defense 

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24 minutes ago, AyeEye said:

The crazy shot counts are not just the defense pairings that are the cause.  Poor Gibson and Miller.  An occasional game with a lopsided shot count would be one thing, but it's every GD game. In this up-tempo trial, are the forwards always leaning the wrong way every second, waiting to release towards the offensive zone?  This might work, if they were able to score often.  But when our best offensive player was recently claimed off the NHL trash heap, they have to re-think and really help the defense 

Yeah, it's the entire team. I've seen so many comments about putting Manson and Lindholm back together as if this is magically going to solve everything. Spoiler: it won't.

I have to wonder what sorts of things Gibby and Miller are saying in the locker room. They can't be happy about being absolutely shelled every night.

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One of the biggest problems is that no one is getting in the shooting lanes. Man up and get hit by a puck....

The lack of follow through with checks is pathetic, communication in the defensive zone is poor and back-checking is horrific and slow as well.

"In this up-tempo trial, are the forwards always leaning the wrong way every second, waiting to release towards the offensive zone?" Most of them are standing still..LOL

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5 minutes ago, DuxFan73 said:

One of the biggest problems is that no one is getting in the shooting lanes. Man up and get hit by a puck....

The lack of follow through with checks is pathetic, communication in the defensive zone is poor and back-checking is horrific and slow as well.

"In this up-tempo trial, are the forwards always leaning the wrong way every second, waiting to release towards the offensive zone?" Most of them are standing still..LOL

I dunno about that...Fowler is #3 in the league in blocked shots...Lindholm is tied for 5th...Montour is tied for 14th...in fact we have more players in top 18 in the league in shot blocking than any other team. But as someone pointed out else where...that's the case 'cause we are facing so many shots to begin with. Your 2nd line I completely agree with though! And I would add in that there just seems to be no support for each other out there.

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2 hours ago, nieder said:

Yeah, it's the entire team. I've seen so many comments about putting Manson and Lindholm back together as if this is magically going to solve everything. Spoiler: it won't.

I have to wonder what sorts of things Gibby and Miller are saying in the locker room. They can't be happy about being absolutely shelled every night.

I was a big advocate for giving 47-26 / 4-42 a long look, but I really want to see 47-42 back together now. I don't think it will magically solve anything, but it could be step 1 towards stopping the bleeding. 

I'm thinking that there was simply too much change this off-season. Think about it... there isn't a single forward line or D-pairing that is the same as last season. How many teams change all three D-pairings and all four forward lines over one summer, and install a new system, and then expect to have success early in the season? Its just not realistic.I know we have had injuries that have screwed with the forward lines, but at some point RC needs to put some familiar faces back together and just let the players develop trust in each other again while he tries to re-train their brains on how to break out of our zone and enter theirs.

If I'm RC and trying to save my job (and my goaltenders), I'm (1) loading up the top two lines with Henrique-Getzlaf-Rakell and Cogs-Kesler-Silf (if he's going to overplay 15/17, he might as well give them their preferred line mates), (2) dropping a kid line in the 3-hole with Aberg-Lundestrom-Sherwood and hyper-managing their zone starts, (3) mashing a 4th line together around Ben Street in the middle (because who cares, they're only going to play 6-7 minutes anyway), and (4) putting 47-42 and 4-26 back together again. If the Ducks still struggle and give up 40+ shots with that line up, this season is officially dead.

Edit: Oh look, Eaves is likely in tonight! Still, put him on the 4th line and let him play his way back to a top-6 role. 

 

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58 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

I was a big advocate for giving 47-26 / 4-42 a long look, but I really want to see 47-42 back together now. I don't think it will magically solve anything, but it could be step 1 towards stopping the bleeding. 

I'm thinking that there was simply too much change this off-season. Think about it... there isn't a single forward line or D-pairing that is the same as last season. How many teams change all three D-pairings and all four forward lines over one summer, and install a new system, and then expect to have success early in the season? Its just not realistic.I know we have had injuries that have screwed with the forward lines, but at some point RC needs to put some familiar faces back together and just let the players develop trust in each other again while he tries to re-train their brains on how to break out of our zone and enter theirs.

If I'm RC and trying to save my job (and my goaltenders), I'm (1) loading up the top two lines with Henrique-Getzlaf-Rakell and Cogs-Kesler-Silf (if he's going to overplay 15/17, he might as well give them their preferred line mates), (2) dropping a kid line in the 3-hole with Aberg-Lundestrom-Sherwood and hyper-managing their zone starts, (3) mashing a 4th line together around Ben Street in the middle (because who cares, they're only going to play 6-7 minutes anyway), and (4) putting 47-42 and 4-26 back together again. If the Ducks still struggle and give up 40+ shots with that line up, this season is officially dead.

Edit: Oh look, Eaves is likely in tonight! Still, put him on the 4th line and let him play his way back to a top-6 role. 

 

I like all of this! I was just thinking that the putting of Kesler, Cogs, and Slifv back together would be a step towards something good...

But more importantly...what?! Where did you hear that?? Thats amazing!

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4 hours ago, DuxFan73 said:

One of the biggest problems is that no one is getting in the shooting lanes. Man up and get hit by a puck....

The lack of follow through with checks is pathetic, communication in the defensive zone is poor and back-checking is horrific and slow as well.

"In this up-tempo trial, are the forwards always leaning the wrong way every second, waiting to release towards the offensive zone?" Most of them are standing still..LOL

Ducks D and those who are offensive D-men Need to take the shot...If they got point they must act on it.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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2 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

 

Edit: Oh look, Eaves is likely in tonight! Still, put him on the 4th line and let him play his way back to a top-6 role. 

 

Very exciting.  But  one veteran won't be able to straighten this mess out in his first game in over a year

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1 minute ago, AyeEye said:

Very exciting.  But  one veteran won't be able to straighten this mess out in his first game in over a year

It will take more then ONE Vet to straighten the mess out.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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Fowler has 38 blocked shot, Lindholm 30 and Montour 25 per Fox Sports  stats  . They are all in the top 15 for blocked shots.

To me this says two things. First, it is amazing how many shots the other teams are getting. If these shots were not blocked our goalies would be facing 50 shots per game?

Second, our defense is getting in shooting lanes and blocking lots of shots. They are kind of doing their job, but just not connecting on clearing passes and terrible at clearing our zone. I would guess that it is more of a product of a combination of too many new players trying to play a new system. I am sure they make great passes in practice, but we can all see what is happening at game speed.

It is my opinion that Lidholm looks much bigger then last year and he is playing better. Has the possibility to become a bit more physical. I also think that Montour looked more fit then last year. 

I don't get why we have problems getting out of our zone. Wings seem out of position to handle passes along the boards and everyone is missing on stretch passes. When players are on the ice too long they make horrible attempts to push the puck out of the zone and are unable. This inability to exit our zone is leading to scoring chances for apposing teams. 

I still have faith in our team and specifically our defense and goalies.

 

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The Ducks need a real coach, a real offense, a real GM. Don’t need a real goaltender, they’re pretty good. 

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Blocking a shot is all well and good many just hit players and bounce away to safety.

The problem is when the puck bounces to another opponent who now takes another perhaps even better shot with players,goalie now out of position.

Same with goalies who allow a lot of rebounds great if it bounces to a team mate if not it just generates more panic and another shot.

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4 hours ago, Southbayduck said:

Fowler has 38 blocked shot, Lindholm 30 and Montour 25 per Fox Sports  stats  . They are all in the top 15 for blocked shots.

To me this says two things. First, it is amazing how many shots the other teams are getting. If these shots were not blocked our goalies would be facing 50 shots per game?

Second, our defense is getting in shooting lanes and blocking lots of shots. They are kind of doing their job, but just not connecting on clearing passes and terrible at clearing our zone. I would guess that it is more of a product of a combination of too many new players trying to play a new system. I am sure they make great passes in practice, but we can all see what is happening at game speed.

It is my opinion that Lidholm looks much bigger then last year and he is playing better. Has the possibility to become a bit more physical. I also think that Montour looked more fit then last year. 

I don't get why we have problems getting out of our zone. Wings seem out of position to handle passes along the boards and everyone is missing on stretch passes. When players are on the ice too long they make horrible attempts to push the puck out of the zone and are unable. This inability to exit our zone is leading to scoring chances for apposing teams. 

I still have faith in our team and specifically our defense and goalies.

 

The shot blocking totals are skewed here by (1) the Ducks having played more games than every team but Vancouver and Chicago, and (2) Fowler had 9 (9!!) blocks in that one game against Dallas on 10/13 (where we still gave up 50 shots on goal despite blocking 24 shots). If Fowler is still in the top-25 in blocked shots by midseason I will be shocked.

As far as getting out of our zone, I think the issues with the wings you have identified are certainly major problems. My perception also is that this emphasis on getting away from the D-to-D east-west passes in favor of a more north-south game  doesn't really fit our personnel, particularly Fowler and Monty. In seasons past, they've been able to go D-to-D with passes until skating lanes opened and then they'd skate it out of our zone (their strength) because the forwards were spaced better up the ice. Now it looks to me like there is often a Ducks forward standing still directly in their skating lanes, so there is less space for Fowler and Monty to simply skate it out of the zone. So perhaps its not surprising that Monty and Fowler have been struggling so badly. This new system has effectively neutered their best skill.

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31 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

As far as getting out of our zone, I think the issues with the wings you have identified are certainly major problems. My perception also is that this emphasis on getting away from the D-to-D east-west passes in favor of a more north-south game  doesn't really fit our personnel, particularly Fowler and Monty. In seasons past, they've been able to go D-to-D with passes until skating lanes opened and then they'd skate it out of our zone (their strength) because the forwards were spaced better up the ice. Now it looks to me like there is often a Ducks forward standing still directly in their skating lanes, so there is less space for Fowler and Monty to simply skate it out of the zone. So perhaps its not surprising that Monty and Fowler have been struggling so badly. This new system has effectively neutered their best skill.

This makes a lot of sense in speaking to Fowler's issues.  He's never been the most assertive player, but he looks incredibly tentative with the puck this season.  He was always rated very highly in successful defensive zone exits.  I haven't looked at the numbers, but he looks lost out there half the time.  And his tentativeness kills any offensive momentum the Ducks might generate from a break out.  It would make complete sense that it's a system thing, since I doubt Fowler forgot how to execute a breakout over the summer.

Please fire Carlyle.  

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25 minutes ago, gorbachav5 said:

This makes a lot of sense in speaking to Fowler's issues.  He's never been the most assertive player, but he looks incredibly tentative with the puck this season.  He was always rated very highly in successful defensive zone exits.  I haven't looked at the numbers, but he looks lost out there half the time.  And his tentativeness kills any offensive momentum the Ducks might generate from a break out.  It would make complete sense that it's a system thing, since I doubt Fowler forgot how to execute a breakout over the summer.

Please fire Carlyle.  

That makes a lot of sense to me as well. But is that Carlyle (legit wondering...)? Is it that RC doesn't know how to implement the north-south game? Or is it more the players don't feel comfortable with that game? Would a new coach bringing in a north-south game have the same issues?? Wouldn't we be better off with, first, scrapping this north-south game that isn't working for our players?? And I feel that's on management to say forget about it. But I don't know. I don't know enough about the origin of systems etc...to know.

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Actually, it was a decent effort yesterday against more talented, faster and better coached Rangers team. I am pleased with an effort, but not the final result. I saw some improvement from the defensive corps; Fowler wasn't bad either. Let's see how the Ducks perform the next game...

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1 hour ago, FanSince1993 said:

Actually, it was a decent effort yesterday against more talented, faster and better coached Rangers team. I am pleased with an effort, but not the final result. I saw some improvement from the defensive corps; Fowler wasn't bad either. Let's see how the Ducks perform the next game...

Fowler was holding onto the puck, skting, overall more confident looking. That’s the Fowler I want. Nervous, trying to dump the puck out of the zone constantly Fowler is a liability. 

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On 11/1/2018 at 0:38 PM, dtsdlaw said:

I was a big advocate for giving 47-26 / 4-42 a long look, but I really want to see 47-42 back together now. I don't think it will magically solve anything, but it could be step 1 towards stopping the bleeding. 

I'm thinking that there was simply too much change this off-season. Think about it... there isn't a single forward line or D-pairing that is the same as last season. How many teams change all three D-pairings and all four forward lines over one summer, and install a new system, and then expect to have success early in the season? Its just not realistic.I know we have had injuries that have screwed with the forward lines, but at some point RC needs to put some familiar faces back together and just let the players develop trust in each other again while he tries to re-train their brains on how to break out of our zone and enter theirs.

If I'm RC and trying to save my job (and my goaltenders), I'm (1) loading up the top two lines with Henrique-Getzlaf-Rakell and Cogs-Kesler-Silf (if he's going to overplay 15/17, he might as well give them their preferred line mates), (2) dropping a kid line in the 3-hole with Aberg-Lundestrom-Sherwood and hyper-managing their zone starts, (3) mashing a 4th line together around Ben Street in the middle (because who cares, they're only going to play 6-7 minutes anyway), and (4) putting 47-42 and 4-26 back together again. If the Ducks still struggle and give up 40+ shots with that line up, this season is officially dead.

Edit: Oh look, Eaves is likely in tonight! Still, put him on the 4th line and let him play his way back to a top-6 role. 

 

I was at the game last night and Eaves got a resounding ovation  when he took his 1st shift - HOWEVER - I think he took one other shift during the first period and maybe 1 or 2 the second and 2 the third. And they were very short and it seemed like he was winded rather quickly. Just noticing his body language was that of a very tired ( or old like me ) veteran. I am very excited to seem his return but I believe this season will be one long training camp. IMHO

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On 11/1/2018 at 6:30 AM, Shadowduck said:

Was sacrificing Theodore to keep the VGK from taking Manson in the expansion draft the right move in hindsight? We would still have Theodore and possible Stoner( the needed grit player) if that deal was not made.

Bottom line is Manson is the only Dman trying to bring grit to the game. but he still lacks the experience and judgement on how far to take the physical play. And the entire team has seemingly forgotten how to get the puck out of the defensive zone or how to carry the puck into the offensive zone and sustain offensive pressure.

No clue how this can be fixed fast enough to keep this season from slipping away.

 

Since the new contract, it appears someone filled JM42s gloves with super glue.

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17 hours ago, FanSince1993 said:

Actually, it was a decent effort yesterday against more talented, faster and better coached Rangers team. I am pleased with an effort, but not the final result. I saw some improvement from the defensive corps; Fowler wasn't bad either. Let's see how the Ducks perform the next game...

If that Rangers team is more talented we should start the rebuild right now. Because the Rangers are expected to be a lottery team this year. 

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On 11/1/2018 at 2:24 PM, Jasoaks said:

I dunno about that...Fowler is #3 in the league in blocked shots...Lindholm is tied for 5th...Montour is tied for 14th...in fact we have more players in top 18 in the league in shot blocking than any other team. But as someone pointed out else where...that's the case 'cause we are facing so many shots to begin with. Your 2nd line I completely agree with though! And I would add in that there just seems to be no support for each other out there.

Shots blocked has to be one of the most meaningless stat. In fact, it may be inversely correlated to defensive performance.   I don’t want defenders blocking shots.  I want shots prevented to being with. That requires defensive clears and team possession.  I also want defensemen clearing be crease and allowing the goalie an unobstructed view of the shooter.  

 

 

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4 hours ago, DT2008 said:

Shots blocked has to be one of the most meaningless stat. In fact, it may be inversely correlated to defensive performance.   I don’t want defenders blocking shots.  I want shots prevented to being with. That requires defensive clears and team possession.  I also want defensemen clearing be crease and allowing the goalie an unobstructed view of the shooter.  

 

 

This sounds great and I’m going to skip the question ((“where do you yourself in 5 years)) and instead cut to the chase here so Would you be available to fill the coaching position once RC gets canned? 

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20 hours ago, DUCKSDOC said:

I was at the game last night and Eaves got a resounding ovation  when he took his 1st shift - HOWEVER - I think he took one other shift during the first period and maybe 1 or 2 the second and 2 the third. And they were very short and it seemed like he was winded rather quickly. Just noticing his body language was that of a very tired ( or old like me ) veteran. I am very excited to seem his return but I believe this season will be one long training camp. IMHO

CORRECTION - stats said he played 15 shifts for 10+ minutes - I must have been SLEEPING during all the excitement. Sorry :wacko:

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On 11/1/2018 at 9:38 AM, opwe said:

Watching the Ducks the past 3-4 games, it is apparent they need a "real" defense.  I mean a couple of big, mean, Pronger-types.  Fowler and the others are great in a skating game, but I feel they are not mean enough in front of the net.  There is no reason why the Ducks best players are the goalies every game.

Newsflash....The Ducks "New" Strategy reminds me of the strategy back in 2002 when The team relied too heavily on Giggy back in the day. IF this season Ducks falter then we know RC and BM may have to go.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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On 11/3/2018 at 10:26 AM, DT2008 said:

Shots blocked has to be one of the most meaningless stat. In fact, it may be inversely correlated to defensive performance.   I don’t want defenders blocking shots.  I want shots prevented to being with. That requires defensive clears and team possession.  I also want defensemen clearing be crease and allowing the goalie an unobstructed view of the shooter.  

 

 

Well yeah, absolutely! I was more trying to point out that "getting in the way of shots" is not exactly our problem as the person I was quoting was saying.

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For the Ducks to need a Defencemen they need to Trade for one that can be Blockbuster something that will SHOCK the Sports and Hockey World.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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