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Is Kesler healthy?

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Just now, JiggyToTheCup said:

thanks... If he retired today, there would still be a cap hit?

I don't know about that but Kesler says he's not leaving Anaheim so I guess the only way he's forced into leaving is buying him out.

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Ducks offered him an NMC as a part of his contract.  Kesler wont waive it, so he stays in Anaheim or gets bought out.  No way he retires with more than $15M in play.  

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18 minutes ago, Fowl said:

Ducks offered him an NMC as a part of his contract.  Kesler wont waive it, so he stays in Anaheim or gets bought out.  No way he retires with more than $15M in play.  

retire and make him coach

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As I stated here a week ago, for him the best way would be to take a few weeks off due to "lower body injury".  I bet he read this thread and took it into consideration.

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https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.si.com/nhl/2019/03/05/ryan-kesler-journey-1000-games

This article about Kesler’s injury, recovery process etc is absolutely insane. How is still playing is a testament to modern medicine and his sheer will. How long can he continue given all of this? We all knew his hip was really bad but my worst case scenario didn’t go this far. 

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4 hours ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.si.com/nhl/2019/03/05/ryan-kesler-journey-1000-games

This article about Kesler’s injury, recovery process etc is absolutely insane. How is still playing is a testament to modern medicine and his sheer will. How long can he continue given all of this? We all knew his hip was really bad but my worst case scenario didn’t go this far. 

Kesler is a stud and an indispensable mentor and locker room presence for the young guys. To think that he was runner-up for the Selke (and should have won) the same season (2016-17) he couldn't even walk up stairs and was wearing a brace that limited his ability to turn is INSANE. This is why I will never count out Kesler until the day he hangs up his skates. Nobody brings it harder than Kesler.

The article makes me think that he will probably won't see the end of his contract, but I also think he's got at least one more season in him after this one, and that he'll be better next season than he has been this season after another summer of conditioning/strengthening that hip AND now that he doesn't have RC grinding him so hard. Seriously, what was RC thinking with his TOI and assignments if Kesler was in that bad of shape during the 2017-18 season?? Makes zero sense after reading this article.  

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8 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

Kesler is a stud and an indispensable mentor and locker room presence for the young guys. To think that he was runner-up for the Selke (and should have won) the same season (2016-17) he couldn't even walk up stairs and was wearing a brace that limited his ability to turn is INSANE. This is why I will never count out Kesler until the day he hangs up his skates. Nobody brings it harder than Kesler.

The article makes me think that he will probably won't see the end of his contract, but I also think he's got at least one more season in him after this one, and that he'll be better next season than he has been this season after another summer of conditioning/strengthening that hip AND now that he doesn't have RC grinding him so hard. Seriously, what was RC thinking with his TOI and assignments if Kesler was in that bad of shape during the 2017-18 season?? Makes zero sense after reading this article.  

How Carlyle and the organization didn’t force him to sit is borderline criminal let alone give him that workload. I don’t see him finishing his contract at all after reading that. Seems like the 1,000 game mark was a huge motivation and that he was going to get it or die trying. I don’t know how continuing to play can be good for his hip and quality of life after hockey. Hope he isn’t doing irreparable and debilitating damaging to his health.

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5 hours ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.si.com/nhl/2019/03/05/ryan-kesler-journey-1000-games

This article about Kesler’s injury, recovery process etc is absolutely insane. How is still playing is a testament to modern medicine and his sheer will. How long can he continue given all of this? We all knew his hip was really bad but my worst case scenario didn’t go this far. 

He reached his milestone of 1000 games so maybe he doesn't have to prove anything anymore. I suppose the only thing left for him to do in his career is win a Cup but he has to weigh his condition vs the quality of life in the off season. If he's feeling fine that's great. This team needs him along with Perry because they bring that sandpaper.

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53 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

Kesler is a stud and an indispensable mentor and locker room presence for the young guys. To think that he was runner-up for the Selke (and should have won) the same season (2016-17) he couldn't even walk up stairs and was wearing a brace that limited his ability to turn is INSANE. This is why I will never count out Kesler until the day he hangs up his skates. Nobody brings it harder than Kesler.

The article makes me think that he will probably won't see the end of his contract, but I also think he's got at least one more season in him after this one, and that he'll be better next season than he has been this season after another summer of conditioning/strengthening that hip AND now that he doesn't have RC grinding him so hard. Seriously, what was RC thinking with his TOI and assignments if Kesler was in that bad of shape during the 2017-18 season?? Makes zero sense after reading this article.  

RC has a special way of ruining/ breaking/ grinding down/ overusing his stars. The only reason he wins the SC with the Ducks was cause he had plenty of stars he can just ride hard. It’s sad and gross negligence to have ridden Kessler so hard. If there is any such thing as coaching malpractice he should be charged for it

 

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Per article, his injury was much worse than I thought. Kudos to Ryan for fighting back and playing thru pain. The common sense, however, should tell him to retire after the end of this season, if he doesn't want to risk his health in the future. But it won't happen. The "$$$" sign will prevail: milk it till the end, for 3 more years.

Hey, can't blame him. If I was in his position, I would do the same. You can't walk away from guaranteed money.

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1 hour ago, FanSince1993 said:

Per article, his injury was much worse than I thought. Kudos to Ryan for fighting back and playing thru pain. The common sense, however, should tell him to retire after the end of this season, if he doesn't want to risk his health in the future. But it won't happen. The "$$$" sign will prevail: milk it till the end, for 3 more years.

Hey, can't blame him. If I was in his position, I would do the same. You can't walk away from guaranteed money.

I don’t think it’s all about the money. He could go on LTIR tomorrow and collect every penny owed to him for the next three years. And yet he plays on.

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58 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

I don’t think it’s all about the money. He could go on LTIR tomorrow and collect every penny owed to him for the next three years. And yet he plays on.

This is an interesting observation.  I didn't know about it. Is LTIR has time limitation?  Is money on LTIR the same as on contract?  How do the teams protect themselves from some dishonest players taking advantage of LTIR? Anybody knows something about it? 

Edited by FanSince1993

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This is shocking to read. Shows again that often we as fans have no clue about what's going on and that the players deserve our utmost respect. I feel so bad for him because we know what he can do when he's healthy. Kesler is an example to all the young guys on the team. What a warrior.

I sincerely hope that he can take another (or more) steps over the summer and that he can play pain free.

Go Kesler!!

 

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1 hour ago, FanSince1993 said:

This is an interesting observation.  I didn't know about it. Is LTIR has time limitation?  Is money on LTIR the same as on contract?  How do the teams protect themselves from some dishonest players taking advantage of LTIR? Anybody knows something about it? 

First, the team is who puts a player on LTIR. The player doesn’t make that choice. LTIR is a way for a severely injured player’s salary to not cripple the team’s salary cap by allowing a team to exceed the cap up to the amount of that player’s cap figure. The league also does require medical documentation to accept the LTIR designation and has the right to challenge a diagnosis if they think there’s monkey business going on with a team’s salary cap. Contracts are also guaranteed in the NHL, and you can’t buy out an injured player without his consent. So a player who is medically unfit to play anymore can just sit back and collect game checks for the duration of his contract. 

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5 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

First, the team is who puts a player on LTIR. The player doesn’t make that choice. LTIR is a way for a severely injured player’s salary to not cripple the team’s salary cap by allowing a team to exceed the cap up to the amount of that player’s cap figure. The league also does require medical documentation to accept the LTIR designation and has the right to challenge a diagnosis if they think there’s monkey business going on with a team’s salary cap. Contracts are also guaranteed in the NHL, and you can’t buy out an injured player without his consent. So a player who is medically unfit to play anymore can just sit back and collect game checks for the duration of his contract. 

Must be the reason for some of those ugly lockouts, no less. The probability of a player injuring something during an 8-year contract is far more than 50/50 - that way the team WILL lose money almost guaranteed on EACH contract and this is not even including the so-called 'slumps' which even the stars get from time to time. It's the nature of sports, little can be done to change it, but the NHLPA will always try to protect the player and his well-being, while the league and BOG will look for ways to stay off the hook of them Pronger in Arizona deals.

Each side has it's own valid point - the players choose a career path that limits their ability to reliably earn money anywhere else, thus the contract security and guarantees. Meanwhile, if you hired someone to do a job for you - and they aren't performing to what was agreed upon, or are simply unable too - and you still have to give them money because you signed a piece of paper - this way I really feel for the GM's and owners. There's basically no Kesler at the moment, even though it's commendable he's trying to give it his all and honour the contract he signed, we still punched a big hole in a limited budget and the asset is just not there - it'd be much the same if he was sitting on LTIR if he chose to.

I know I will be very unpopular with this, but say if the "Big numbers" on a contract only indicated the max value you could get  - say, Kes agrees to play 21 minutes a game and score at least 50 points a season for a grand total of $6.5. Then his hips happen and he suddenly does 15 minutes \ 20 points while also costing some man-games. The team is not effective without him - lose more, and fans start attending less because the product sucks. Then Kesler might get something like $3.5 - $4 for suiting up and trying, and, say, a flat minimum of $2 if he stays home on LTIR and is completely useless. I'm sure they can come up with the right math to figure out the numbers - performance bonuses are a common thing.

This way, half-a-season worth' of lost Perry will not sting like the full $8 he is owed. We will have more flexibility to sign interim players: "OK, Perry is projected to be out starting September ending March - let's calculate how much will this save us and trade for a nobody from Columbus to fill in". I know this is all very much complex and likely will never be implemented, but I totally understand Bob and his moneygrab instincts when he's giving a man millions of dollars and the man's just not there. I mean, if you go on sick leave on your 9 am to 6pm day job - your pay gets slashed, because you produce 0 work, zero, nothing, nada - you're at home sick. Sure, these guys, risk their health each and every second they are on the ice, but so does a train driver who is responsible not just for his own life but for half a thousand more that sits behind him.

The onus is on the NHLPA to accept flexible pay based on factual games played and performance delivered. This season for the Anaheim Ducks might have been easier to stomach if we knew that key players that we lost did not derail our season because they each cost us an unmovable amount of money, but rather their money were carried over to other players but they just didn't jell because the coach is a dinosaur and wants to have a mandatory morning skate 7 days of the week. It's indeed the same for each team, McDavid and Ovechkin can always go down, and Crosby certainly did go down, so no one is safe, but this just makes the luck factor be the deciding factor, which it shouldn't be. When players are out, and one can argue that Kesler is an exciting player, too, the NHL product suffers.

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14 hours ago, perry_mvp said:

He reached his milestone of 1000 games so maybe he doesn't have to prove anything anymore. I suppose the only thing left for him to do in his career is win a Cup but he has to weigh his condition vs the quality of life in the off season. If he's feeling fine that's great. This team needs him along with Perry because they bring that sandpaper.

He might be hoping the Ducks buy out his contract so he can sign with a team like Washington or San Jose for league minimum and take one last stab at a Cup.

The article does seem to indicate that 1000 games was the goal and this has been reached now, perhaps he feels he is done. Frees up enough space for BM to go after Karlsson? Lol. Probably more like a 36 year old Jason Spezza.

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1 hour ago, nieder said:

He might be hoping the Ducks buy out his contract so he can sign with a team like Washington or San Jose for league minimum and take one last stab at a Cup.

The article does seem to indicate that 1000 games was the goal and this has been reached now, perhaps he feels he is done. Frees up enough space for BM to go after Karlsson? Lol. Probably more like a 36 year old Jason Spezza.

He said awhile ago that he doesn't want to play anywhere else soooo.....I just don't see him uprooting his family. If the Wings weren't bottom feeders I could see him going there since he's a Michigan boy but for now, I don't mind seeing things play out. It's a big hunk of change the Ducks are paying him but I would think that if IHCVPGMBM was concerned about defense (which he should be) he wouldn't have re-signed Silf. Or maybe IHCVPGMBM has a plan....LOL (I dare him to make a trade for Seth Jones).

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2 hours ago, Aksun said:

The onus is on the NHLPA to accept flexible pay based on factual games played and performance delivered. This season for the Anaheim Ducks might have been easier to stomach if we knew that key players that we lost did not derail our season because they each cost us an unmovable amount of money, but rather their money were carried over to other players but they just didn't jell because the coach is a dinosaur and wants to have a mandatory morning skate 7 days of the week. It's indeed the same for each team, McDavid and Ovechkin can always go down, and Crosby certainly did go down, so no one is safe, but this just makes the luck factor be the deciding factor, which it shouldn't be. When players are out, and one can argue that Kesler is an exciting player, too, the NHL product suffers.

I would stop watching the NHL if this happened. I don't want players making a business decision as to whether they will step in front of a shot to block it or chase a puck into a corner because it might cost them money if they get injured. If you're going to financially penalize players for trying hard, you might as well go back to the flat-bladed stick and make them play by collegiate rules to keep them all safer on the ice. That would result in a much worse on-ice product. IMO, players should be able to play their games to the best of their ability without worrying that their income will be affected by an on-ice injury.

And speaking of on-ice injuries, your bus driver's "sick day" analogy doesn't work here. Hockey injuries are typically work-related injuries (unless you're Patrick Eaves or Dustin Penner) and would be eligible for worker's compensation claims in the real world (if sports were actually the same as the real world, which they're not). In most US states I think worker's comp pays something like 2/3 of the salary for workers injured on the job who are unable to keep working. And you know how injured workers get the rest of their lost salary? They sue. Do we really want players suing the NHL, teams, coaches, and each other every time they miss games due to injury? That would also be terrible for the game (and also for us fans, because litigation ultimately just makes everything more expensive for the end-users/consumers).

Finally, there's also that specter of concussions. What you're suggesting here will cause players with significant head injuries to return to the ice before they are ready due to fear of losing thousands or even millions of dollars in lost wages because of missed games. These players are human beings, not gladiators, and we should be thankful the NHLPA exists to make sure they are treated as human beings and allowed to heal their significant injuries according to their own body's timeline. 

So IMO, guaranteed contracts exist for both the good of the game AND the good of the player. The onus should instead be on the GMs to make sure that a team is built properly within the salary cap rules. That is their job. And if they can't do their job well, ownership should find some else to do their job.

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After reading that article I would not blame Kesler for retiring after this season. I hope he goes one more year but at the same time I would rather see him put on LTIR for the remainder of his contract so he has a chance to walk his daughter down the aisle years from now. It would be tragic if he continued to play and suffered a catastrophic injury that permanently ended his ability to walk.

He's hit his 1000 game goal. There's no shame in hanging up the skates now. (Not that there would have been two years ago).

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Kesler will get some time for rest Once 25th Anniversary concludes.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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Retiring would be a the best option for Ryan Kesler and for the Ducks. Kesler would not risk to aggravate his hip injury that could affect him for the rest of his life, and the Ducks would shed almost $7 mil from their salary cap.

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4 hours ago, Shadowduck said:

After reading that article I would not blame Kesler for retiring after this season. I hope he goes one more year but at the same time I would rather see him put on LTIR for the remainder of his contract so he has a chance to walk his daughter down the aisle years from now. It would be tragic if he continued to play and suffered a catastrophic injury that permanently ended his ability to walk.

He's hit his 1000 game goal. There's no shame in hanging up the skates now. (Not that there would have been two years ago).

Kes is a warrior for sure but after reading the article you have to think for his own good he should retire.  He still has a lot of life ahead and it would be a shame if he couldn't walk through it.

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5 hours ago, FanSince1993 said:

Retiring would be a the best option for Ryan Kesler and for the Ducks. Kesler would not risk to aggravate his hip injury that could affect him for the rest of his life, and the Ducks would shed almost $7 mil from their salary cap.

I assume you mean he 'retires' but goes on LTIR. Because if he actually retires he would forfeit the money from his contract. Which will never happen.

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The risk of injury to the player is built into the contract.  We don't outlay $8/year assuming that the player will play every single second of the contract... we pay that rate to get the potential of them playing some percentage of that time, and both sides understand that injuries happen.  The only expectation is that the player provides a good faith effort not to injure themselves or otherwise make themselves unavailable for play.

Players with a clean bill of heath get paid more.  Players with a good track record, heath and play performance, get paid more.  Both sides take risks - the team on player longevity, the player on overall team success, the opportunity to develop, and the opportunity to be a happy employee.  

In any event, looking at a player contract as some kind of pre-payment for a hourly wage isn't the correct way to view the agreement, where the team loses any time the player is off the ice due to workplace injury.  You really have to look at the performance and reasonable expectations on both sides, over the full life of the contract.  With that metric, you can certainly view some contracts as more beneficial to the team and others less so.... but it's really a disservice to just look at a player who is injured or fading at the end of their contract and then say the whole contract was bad.  We've likely got our value out of Kes and Corey.  We definitely got our value out of Getz.  Despres... we didn't, and we probably didn't handicap the contract properly (I think we were lied to about his concussion issues).  Eaves - we definitely gambled with him, but we got a good player relatively cheaply, and both sides had bad luck.  He will never be offered a large contract again, and we got no where near a fair return for what we paid.  But, it's a kind of inefficiency the entire league has agreed to carry, for the benefit of the players as a whole.  

Anyway, I hate it when players get shat on just because they seem expensive now and people conveniently forget how much they've given the team or the league over the years.  It's ok to just be frustrated that the team is in a multi-faceted slump.  It happens with all teams eventually, or at least it happens with teams that see some success and take a chance on a cup run.  All decisions are easier in hindsight.

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My take on the article... I ask myself, why would he put this kind of sensitive info out there. Usually players hide as much of this behind closed doors and the public carries on without knowing what truly is happening. One thing is clear however is that It makes it known he’s on the verge of breaking down physically. This type of info lets off an organization too as now it’s public knowledge that the player himself has released and he chooses to continue to play. Can’t help to think that there is some type of liability implications here by consenting to public release. Perhaps he setting this all up to help the organization place him on long term injury as doing so requires extensive proof that the player is truly injured to that extent? Or the other thing I can think of here is that he is using this to setup the hockey world and fans of his sooner than later retirement to show that he’s tried hard not to let himself nor his fans down. That he’s pushed it to the limit and now sets the stage for his last days on the ice. When he retires he can point to and say he gave us a heads up.

Just my 3 cents 

Edited by RobD360

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2 hours ago, RobD360 said:

My take on the article... I ask myself, why would he put this kind of sensitive info out there. Usually players hide as much of this behind closed doors and the public carries on without knowing what truly is happening. One thing is clear however is that It makes it known he’s on the verge of breaking down physically. This type of info lets off an organization too as now it’s public knowledge that the player himself has released and he chooses to continue to play. Can’t help to think that there is some type of liability implications here by consenting to public release. Perhaps he setting this all up to help the organization place him on long term injury as doing so requires extensive proof that the player is truly injured to that extent? Or the other thing I can think of here is that he is using this to setup the hockey world and fans of his sooner than later retirement to show that he’s tried hard not to let himself nor his fans down. That he’s pushed it to the limit and now sets the stage for his last days on the ice. When he retires he can point to and say he gave us a heads up.

Just my 3 cents 

This seems like an awful lot of thought for what was just an interesting story about an injured player.  Occam's Razor says that a writer saw Kesler's situation, thought it would be an interesting story, asked Kesler's permission, and then wrote it.  Why does there need to be some kind of angle behind it?

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On 3/7/2019 at 10:06 AM, dtsdlaw said:

I would stop watching the NHL if this happened. I don't want players making a business decision as to whether they will step in front of a shot to block it or chase a puck into a corner because it might cost them money if they get injured. If you're going to financially penalize players for trying hard, you might as well go back to the flat-bladed stick and make them play by collegiate rules to keep them all safer on the ice. That would result in a much worse on-ice product. IMO, players should be able to play their games to the best of their ability without worrying that their income will be affected by an on-ice injury.

And speaking of on-ice injuries, your bus driver's "sick day" analogy doesn't work here. Hockey injuries are typically work-related injuries (unless you're Patrick Eaves or Dustin Penner) and would be eligible for worker's compensation claims in the real world (if sports were actually the same as the real world, which they're not). In most US states I think worker's comp pays something like 2/3 of the salary for workers injured on the job who are unable to keep working. And you know how injured workers get the rest of their lost salary? They sue. Do we really want players suing the NHL, teams, coaches, and each other every time they miss games due to injury? That would also be terrible for the game (and also for us fans, because litigation ultimately just makes everything more expensive for the end-users/consumers).

Finally, there's also that specter of concussions. What you're suggesting here will cause players with significant head injuries to return to the ice before they are ready due to fear of losing thousands or even millions of dollars in lost wages because of missed games. These players are human beings, not gladiators, and we should be thankful the NHLPA exists to make sure they are treated as human beings and allowed to heal their significant injuries according to their own body's timeline. 

So IMO, guaranteed contracts exist for both the good of the game AND the good of the player. The onus should instead be on the GMs to make sure that a team is built properly within the salary cap rules. That is their job. And if they can't do their job well, ownership should find some else to do their job.

The league will probably outlaw blocking shots at some point.  Don’t want anyone to get hurt.  The rough and tumble hard contact NHL is slipping away.  Think back over the last few years, and less physical contact by players are the new rule focal points.  When a guy hunches over and has his head contacted by a guy finishing a check, DPS now sees the need to intervene and suspend someone.  Hybrid icing, hits to the head,  contact with the goaltenders......The league is trying to cover itself from lawsuits.  I’m personally finding the game less interesting by all the rule changes implemented over the past fifteen years.

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https://www.ocregister.com/2019/03/15/ducks-say-ryan-kesler-could-be-done-for-the-season/

West Notes: Kesler, Mitchell, Canucks

MARCH 15, 2019 AT 3:38 PM CDT | BY GAVIN LEE 2 COMMENTS

The Anaheim Ducks are well out of the playoff race in the Western Conference, meaning they don’t need to rush players back from injury for the last bit of the season. That could mean that Ryan Kesler’s year is finished after 60 games, given his chronic hip pain and absence recently. GM Bob Murray told Elliott Teaford of the Orange County Register that he doesn’t know if Kesler will play again this season, and that if Kesler were willing to shut down for the year and start the recovery process it “would be fine.”

The veteran center broke the 1000-game threshold just this month, but is a shadow of his former self and has just eight points on the season. The 34-year old has three more years on his contract but seems like a candidate for long-term injured reserve at some point in the future, if his hip injury doesn’t improve.

Edited by DuckFan4Life
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1 hour ago, DuckFan4Life said:

https://www.ocregister.com/2019/03/15/ducks-say-ryan-kesler-could-be-done-for-the-season/

West Notes: Kesler, Mitchell, Canucks

MARCH 15, 2019 AT 3:38 PM CDT | BY GAVIN LEE 2 COMMENTS

The Anaheim Ducks are well out of the playoff race in the Western Conference, meaning they don’t need to rush players back from injury for the last bit of the season. That could mean that Ryan Kesler’s year is finished after 60 games, given his chronic hip pain and absence recently. GM Bob Murray told Elliott Teaford of the Orange County Register that he doesn’t know if Kesler will play again this season, and that if Kesler were willing to shut down for the year and start the recovery process it “would be fine.”

The veteran center broke the 1000-game threshold just this month, but is a shadow of his former self and has just eight points on the season. The 34-year old has three more years on his contract but seems like a candidate for long-term injured reserve at some point in the future, if his hip injury doesn’t improve.

And there it is. The first piece to fall to pave the way to retirement or long term injury. My theory might not be too far fetched. 

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