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16 hours ago, Shadowduck said:

The Gulls players are not the answer. I don't understand this desire to bring up AHL players before they are ready. 

Leave the kids in San Diego. Exposing them to this losing culture and terrible system is a horrible idea. And it is not going to salvage this season. 

 Trading Fowler is also a dumb idea. He's the best puck handler and skater the defense has. 

The Gulls players are ready. Outside of Max Jones everyone listed there has already played with the big club this season and have shown that, while still green, they can play at the NHL level. 

I worry a little about exposing them to RC, but the trade off of one month of real NHL experience is worth it IMO. I also think replacing 1/3 of the starting lineup with youthful exuberance would be just the type earthquake that could shake the locker room’s mental fatigue. And maybe I misunderstood the thread, but I’m not worried about winning THIS season, I’m worried about re-tooling the team to be a winner more quickly within the next couple of seasons. I don’t want to see a 5-year rebuild. I want them back in the playoffs in 2020. IMO a month of NHL experience, especially during the time of year when playoff teams have the volume turned up to 11, would be invaluable to Terry, Steel, Jones, Larsson, etc.

Lastly, Fowler is good at some things and bad at others. Unfortunately one of the things he is particularly bad at is defending the 5-foot perimeter around Gibby’s crease. And his partner Montour is equally bad at it. That pair just doesn’t work, but we’ve also tried splitting them, also to no success. One of them needs to go in favor of a stronger, more punishing, more effective net-front defender. I pick Fowler because we are thin on right-D but have several solid left-D already in the system. He’s also older, brings back the highest return in a trade, and saves more money that can be used to improve the lineup.

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Ducks are long overdue for Bigtime Trade...Cogliano Trade was imho a Kneejerk reaction..... either way Ducks Taking a step back instead of making a Playoffs would do them Good....No Condition to battle in Post season or retool on the fly.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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53 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

The Gulls players are ready. Outside of Max Jones everyone listed there has already played with the big club this season and have shown that, while still green, they can play at the NHL level. 

I worry a little about exposing them to RC, but the trade off of one month of real NHL experience is worth it IMO. I also think replacing 1/3 of the starting lineup with youthful exuberance would be just the type earthquake that could shake the locker room’s mental fatigue. And maybe I misunderstood the thread, but I’m not worried about winning THIS season, I’m worried about re-tooling the team to be a winner more quickly within the next couple of seasons. I don’t want to see a 5-year rebuild. I want them back in the playoffs in 2020. IMO a month of NHL experience, especially during the time of year when playoff teams have the volume turned up to 11, would be invaluable to Terry, Steel, Jones, Larsson, etc.

Lastly, Fowler is good at some things and bad at others. Unfortunately one of the things he is particularly bad at is defending the 5-foot perimeter around Gibby’s crease. And his partner Montour is equally bad at it. That pair just doesn’t work, but we’ve also tried splitting them, also to no success. One of them needs to go in favor of a stronger, more punishing, more effective net-front defender. I pick Fowler because we are thin on right-D but have several solid left-D already in the system. He’s also older, brings back the highest return in a trade, and saves more money that can be used to improve the lineup.

Couldn’t agree more about Fowler and Montour and their defense around the net.  Also seems like montour gets caught to far into the opposition zone with pinched and gets caught for 2-on-1’s. 

Max Jones got some games in with the Ducks so all of the prospects got valuable NHL experience and better understand of what it will take to hopefully make it. Exposing them to Carlyle and this gongshow worries me and if Eakins really is going to be the next coach, I’d rather them play under him as much as possible. 

The Ducks should absolutely be focusing on the future and rebuilding this team. It’s been clear since last season and why they’ve been god awful this year, there still weren’t high expectations of them. Murray hasn’t had to go through a rebuild or something like this as GM and I’m more concerned about how he’ll handle it then anything. 

At least we have a chance to play win and win the lottery!

 

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2 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

I don’t want to see a 5-year rebuild. I want them back in the playoffs in 2020

nobody want this, but it needs some time. look at Detroit, year for year in the playoffs and bang...

but we must trade some players, minimum 2 of the 5 top defender must go because Seattle. also Offense they must trade Kesler or buy him out after next season... if not, you lose some potential like Sprong or RItchie...

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32 minutes ago, Spike1981 said:

nobody want this, but it needs some time. look at Detroit, year for year in the playoffs and bang...

but we must trade some players, minimum 2 of the 5 top defender must go because Seattle. also Offense they must trade Kesler or buy him out after next season... if not, you lose some potential like Sprong or RItchie...

Agreed, a re-tool is needed and this team can pull it off 2-3 seasons. The kids look promising and under the right coaching staff can solidify a good chunk of the lineup...we need to stop worrying about the expansion draft...it's only one player off the roster or we can offer a trade/future considerations when the time comes. This roster won't be the same at the start of next season let alone 2 years from now. I think we will see Silfverberg, Ritchie, Manson, Fowler gone at the deadline. Just my thoughts.

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30 minutes ago, ducks07 said:

Agreed, a re-tool is needed and this team can pull it off 2-3 seasons. The kids look promising and under the right coaching staff can solidify a good chunk of the lineup...we need to stop worrying about the expansion draft...it's only one player off the roster or we can offer a trade/future considerations when the time comes. This roster won't be the same at the start of next season let alone 2 years from now. I think we will see Silfverberg, Ritchie, Manson, Fowler gone at the deadline. Just my thoughts.

Yep. Agree with this timeline as the most optimistic scenario if things go right. It all depends on how the current prospects (assuming also a top pick this year) pan out and who the new coach eventually is. Perry and Kesler will be off the books during that time and the cap deck will be pretty much cleared. The expansion draft is still two years away and who knows what will happen until then, especially with a looming lockout in 2020. They still have plenty of time to maneuver around it.

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5 hours ago, MooseDuck said:

Ducks are long overdue for Bigtime Trade...Cogliano Trade was imho a Kneejerk reaction..... either way Ducks Taking a step back instead of making a Playoffs would do them Good....No Condition to battle in Post season or retool on the fly.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

Trading Cogliano when they did, ripped the heart and soul out of the team.

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I'm not sure why we need to trade out good players now to get ready for the expansion draft that's still years away. Once we get closer then maybe it makes sense, unless we start trading out players left and right because this team isn't very good right now, in which case we will be ready years before we need to be. 

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38 minutes ago, WolfgangDuck said:

Trading Cogliano when they did, ripped the heart and soul out of the team.

It had a minimal effect if any. Players don't mope around because someone got traded. 

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20 minutes ago, ducks07 said:

It had a minimal effect if any. Players don't mope around because someone got traded. 

No, but they mope/wander around if they are missing leadership, which can be the result of a trade.

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I guess I'll throw my hat in here. Fire Bob Murray. Yes I've heard many times that he signed an extension but unless that extension has a clause in it stating that he can not be fired then just boot him out the door with his buddy Carlyle. Does anybody really want Carlyle staying with Anaheim in any capacity? I sure don't. In the more immediate future or at the draft trade Silf, Miller, Larsson and maybe Sprong and Shore. Buyout Kesler and Eaves. 

There's been a lot of talk about the defensemen. I don't think any of them need to be traded. Put Manson and Lindholm back together next season. Bring up Mahura and pair him with Montour. Fowler needs a stay at home partner which the Ducks do not currently have anywhere in the system. Schenn was not the answer obviously. I don't care if it's a LHD or RHD, just someone that compliments Fowler.

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10 hours ago, ducks07 said:

Agreed, a re-tool is needed and this team can pull it off 2-3 seasons. The kids look promising and under the right coaching staff can solidify a good chunk of the lineup...we need to stop worrying about the expansion draft...it's only one player off the roster or we can offer a trade/future considerations when the time comes. This roster won't be the same at the start of next season let alone 2 years from now. I think we will see Silfverberg, Ritchie, Manson, Fowler gone at the deadline. Just my thoughts.

..... It’s one thing to go into a rebuild but trading off ALL these players this season is gutting the team for no good reason. Silf yeah I get but the other players are young under good contracts. I don’t think we are in a total formal rebuild “yet” as RC is killing the team this year. I think it would be prudent to see what this team can do under a competent coaching staff.  I really do think that under a good coach and with the young good forward talent coupled with a resurgence of our D and we could prob be back in the PO next season easy even with dead weight contracts like Eaves and Kess. Perry will still be serviceable somewhere in the lineup too.

I think we are all panicking when we should just forget and let go of this season and look to next the many positives of next year. We are in decent shape then adding a nice top 5 pick and all of a sudden we are looking mighty fine. 

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10 hours ago, perry_mvp said:

I guess I'll throw my hat in here. Fire Bob Murray. Yes I've heard many times that he signed an extension but unless that extension has a clause in it stating that he can not be fired then just boot him out the door with his buddy Carlyle. Does anybody really want Carlyle staying with Anaheim in any capacity? I sure don't. In the more immediate future or at the draft trade Silf, Miller, Larsson and maybe Sprong and Shore. Buyout Kesler and Eaves. 

There's been a lot of talk about the defensemen. I don't think any of them need to be traded. Put Manson and Lindholm back together next season. Bring up Mahura and pair him with Montour. Fowler needs a stay at home partner which the Ducks do not currently have anywhere in the system. Schenn was not the answer obviously. I don't care if it's a LHD or RHD, just someone that compliments Fowler.

I’m not sure how you can drop a guy with 40+ point potential and who regularly plays 22+ mins/game to the 3rd pairing. That’s not going to go over well.

Fowler and Monty are both good players and great contributors. But they just don’t work together. So unless the next coaching staff can figure out how to make 47-26 and 4-42 work, I don’t see how you can keep both. Outside of not firing RC, isn’t the biggest gripe about GMBM that he isn’t putting the right pieces together to make this team competitive? The 4-26 pairing is a glaring example of that IMO.

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21 hours ago, ducks07 said:

Agreed, a re-tool is needed and this team can pull it off 2-3 seasons. The kids look promising and under the right coaching staff can solidify a good chunk of the lineup...we need to stop worrying about the expansion draft...it's only one player off the roster or we can offer a trade/future considerations when the time comes. This roster won't be the same at the start of next season let alone 2 years from now. I think we will see Silfverberg, Ritchie, Manson, Fowler gone at the deadline. Just my thoughts.

Manson might not move. He is one of our few defensemen with a physical edge.

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50 minutes ago, Thom-74 said:

Manson might not move. He is one of our few defensemen with a physical edge.

That is his strength and he has gone away from it this season. For some reason he has tried to transition his game into an offensive defenseman and has continually been caught up ice resulting in odd man attacks. The Ducks rewarded his hard nose style of play and now get a softer Fowler 2.0 Manson. Hell, Monty has been our most physical forward this season. I would have no problem keeping Manson around if he re-focuses on clearing out the net and punishing players along the boards. PLAY TO YOUR STRENGTHS, this goes to the entire team.

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3 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

I’m not sure how you can drop a guy with 40+ point potential and who regularly plays 22+ mins/game to the 3rd pairing. That’s not going to go over well.

Fowler and Monty are both good players and great contributors. But they just don’t work together. So unless the next coaching staff can figure out how to make 47-26 and 4-42 work, I don’t see how you can keep both. Outside of not firing RC, isn’t the biggest gripe about GMBM that he isn’t putting the right pieces together to make this team competitive? The 4-26 pairing is a glaring example of that IMO.

If you're referring to Fowler then I think you misunderstood me. He needs a stay at home partner in the line of Beachemin so he can live up to his offensive potential. I just don't understand this desire to break up 42-47. That's probably our best defensive pairing. Mahura and Montour looked good together as well. I don't disagree about 4-26. That's the jist of my argument.

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44 minutes ago, perry_mvp said:

If you're referring to Fowler then I think you misunderstood me. He needs a stay at home partner in the line of Beachemin so he can live up to his offensive potential. I just don't understand this desire to break up 42-47. That's probably our best defensive pairing. Mahura and Montour looked good together as well. I don't disagree about 4-26. That's the jist of my argument.

I was referring to Monty. With nine seasons already under his belt, Fowler doesn’t have 40+ point potential. Monty does and I can’t rationalize relegating him to a 3rd pairing with Mahura.

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4 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

I was referring to Monty. With nine seasons already under his belt, Fowler doesn’t have 40+ point potential. Monty does and I can’t rationalize relegating him to a 3rd pairing with Mahura.

Fowler has already had a 40 point season, 39 point season with low to middle 30 point seasons. Monty, Fowler and Lindholm all have 40 point potential. I mean you can keep on trying to force pairings that don't seem to work just or have parings that do work. That's all I'm looking for.

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2 hours ago, perry_mvp said:

Fowler has already had a 40 point season, 39 point season with low to middle 30 point seasons. Monty, Fowler and Lindholm all have 40 point potential. I mean you can keep on trying to force pairings that don't seem to work just or have parings that do work. That's all I'm looking for.

Fowler hit 40 his rookie year and hasn’t gotten their since. His 39-point season was when he was an all-star playing the absolute best hockey of his life, and he STILL didn’t hit 40. He’s played on some outstanding Ducks teams too. But Fowler is too tentative in his passing and has a muffin shot that doesn’t get through traffic very often. He is not a 40+ point defenseman now, and he never will be. 650+ games into his NHL career, he is what he is.

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51 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

Fowler hit 40 his rookie year and hasn’t gotten their since. His 39-point season was when he was an all-star playing the absolute best hockey of his life, and he STILL didn’t hit 40. He’s played on some outstanding Ducks teams too. But Fowler is too tentative in his passing and has a muffin shot that doesn’t get through traffic very often. He is not a 40+ point defenseman now, and he never will be. 650+ games into his NHL career, he is what he is.

Monty isn't a 40+ point player as of yet either. He went through what, a 50 game stretch last year between goals? Neither Fowler nor Monty are particular good in the defensive zone and are both offensively minded. I can understand the reasoning for 4-42 and 26-47 but it just hasn't worked. Maybe it works with a new coaching staff. On a side note, Fowler has worked on that muffin shot but Monty just shoots into the goalies logo more often than not.

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One big problem that doesn’t seem to get brought up that much is that ever since Perry (from a chronological perspective) we have never acquired a player who is so gifted at scoring goals it doesn’t matter what else is going on. What I mean is like Tarasenko or that kind of player. A guy like Pavel Bure. If you don’t like my examples whatever, but you know what I’m getting at. These type of players where they’d score 40 plus goals if they were on the Coyotes or on the Penguins. I understand that’s supposed to be Rakell and I think he is an astounding player, but I’m just not sure if he’s that guy. I think he needs at least a so-so line around him to tear it up. 

I know it’s not going to happen but I’d be down with dumping some salary and getting Panarin the bread man. He’s the only guy available that I can think of that may be that archetype scorer. Even if he’s not imagine him and Rakell on a line. That would be well..... a crap ton of bread baby.

Speaking of archetypes BY THORS BEARD let Josh Manson be Josh Manson before I jump out a window! I love that guy but trying to make him into something he’s not isn’t working. Just let him be big mean and crafty. It’s what he’s for and he’s damn good at it.

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