Retire9

Gibson trade?

46 posts in this topic

I'm sure this is gonna get me a lot of grief but I mean this season has been an intense one.

So hear me out, the Ducks core has this incredible skill to play like crap in front of their "#1 goalie". They played better for Fasth over Hiller, then Anderson over Hiller, then Anderson over Gibson and finally Miller over Gibson. They even played "ok" in front of Boyle... Johnson just sucks. 

It also just seems that these type of goalies don't win the cup, you know the incredible ones. Rinne, Hunquist, Nabokov, Luongo, Price and Kiprusoff. Obviously there are others that have won, it just doesn't seems like it's the most important. Look at the Hawks, the Niemi and Crawford played elite but they aren't. Quick is the exception, Caps won with a rotation and penguins won with Murry.

So here comes the idea, if end up with the 2nd overall pick. Would you trade Gibson to Colorado for the 1st and Grubauer for a chance to Hughes and Kappo?

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No (if we’re giving up the #2 pick in this exchange) but I would keep all options on the table regarding personnel moves.  Gibson has been one of the few Ducks to play well, but unless they have an NMC, every player is available come the right offer.  If Wayne Gretzky can be traded, anyone can.

If you have the #2 pick, you get one of those players without trading anything.

I might make that trade if I kept my #2, and could pick up both of them. Even an all-world Gibson can’t deal with this defensive mess in front of him.

Edited by Fowl

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4 hours ago, Retire9 said:

So here comes the idea, if end up with the 2nd overall pick. Would you trade Gibson to Colorado for the 1st and Grubauer for a chance to Hughes and Kappo?

Absolutely not.

End thread/

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1 hour ago, Fowl said:

No (if we’re giving up the #2 pick in this exchange) but I would keep all options on the table regarding personnel moves.  Gibson has been one of the few Ducks to play well, but unless they have an NMC, every player is available come the right offer.  If Wayne Gretzky can be traded, anyone can.

If you have the #2 pick, you get one of those players without trading anything.

I might make that trade if I kept my #2, and could pick up both of them. Even an all-world Gibson can’t deal with this defensive mess in front of him.

Yeah the scenario is Ducks have #2 then trade for #1. They get first 2 picks and draft burgh guys.

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37 minutes ago, BlazingEtem said:

Absolutely not.

End thread/

Why?

Who's in a better situation right now, Gibson or Anderson?

Gibson is the best goalie in the league but what's the point if we can't win? If we can't score and play well in front of him why waste him?

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35 minutes ago, Retire9 said:

Why?

Who's in a better situation right now, Gibson or Anderson?

Gibson is the best goalie in the league but what's the point if we can't win? If we can't score and play well in front of him why waste him?

There are only 26 games left in the season. Next season is a fresh start with 82 games. Gibson is probably one of a few "safe" players in Anaheim.

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6 minutes ago, perry_mvp said:

There are only 26 games left in the season. Next season is a fresh start with 82 games. Gibson is probably one of a few "safe" players in Anaheim.

It's not a question of is he safe or how good he is. But is he worth having the top two picks of this year's draft.

 

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6 hours ago, Retire9 said:

I'm sure this is gonna get me a lot of grief but I mean this season has been an intense one.

So hear me out, the Ducks core has this incredible skill to play like crap in front of their "#1 goalie". They played better for Fasth over Hiller, then Anderson over Hiller, then Anderson over Gibson and finally Miller over Gibson. They even played "ok" in front of Boyle... Johnson just sucks. 

It also just seems that these type of goalies don't win the cup, you know the incredible ones. Rinne, Hunquist, Nabokov, Luongo, Price and Kiprusoff. Obviously there are others that have won, it just doesn't seems like it's the most important. Look at the Hawks, the Niemi and Crawford played elite but they aren't. Quick is the exception, Caps won with a rotation and penguins won with Murry.

So here comes the idea, if end up with the 2nd overall pick. Would you trade Gibson to Colorado for the 1st and Grubauer for a chance to Hughes and Kappo?

It’s never been a popular subject, but I’ve always said Gibson Won’t be able to make it through the playoff season without one or more injuries. I’m wondering if he’s the most injured starter over the last several years. Having said that, I believed he & Andersen were going to get us there.

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1 hour ago, Retire9 said:

Yeah the scenario is Ducks have #2 then trade for #1. They get first 2 picks and draft burgh guys.

If the young forward players we have now play to their potential and fill in the top 2 lines then there is no point in trying for the top 1 and 2 spots as there will be no room for them. We just need 1 great player this upcoming draft preferably a center and we are golden AND we still keep Gibson. 

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First of all theres no guarantee the Avs get the #1 pick. If they did land the #1 than instead of Gibson, I would try to offer a package such as Boyle, Slivferberg, and our 2nd round pick for the #1 overall. Not sure the Avs. would consider trading it anyways because they are a one line team and landing Hughes would give them a great one two punch down the middle. I feel Gibsons contract is perfect in value and length for the Ducks to build upon...Boyle is a great prospect and should be Gibsons backup starting next season, just not sure we would be able to afford him 2- 3 years from now and that will be around the time our cup window should be open. So, I guess with Boyle we can either trade him now for a high draft pick or wait 2-3 years and trade him at the deadline for a high caliber f/d for when we are poised to make a strong cup run. 

Edited by ducks07

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28 minutes ago, ducks07 said:

First of all theres no guarantee the Avs get the #1 pick. If they did land the #1 than instead of Gibson, I would try to offer a package such as Boyle, Slivferberg, and our 2nd round pick for the #1 overall. Not sure the Avs. would consider trading it anyways because they are a one line team and landing Hughes would give them a great one two punch down the middle. I feel Gibsons contract is perfect in value and length for the Ducks to build upon...Boyle is a great prospect and should be Gibsons backup starting next season, just not sure we would be able to afford him 2- 3 years from now and that will be around the time our cup window should be open. So, I guess with Boyle we can either trade him now for a high draft pick or wait 2-3 years and trade him at the deadline for a high caliber f/d for when we are poised to make a strong cup run. 

If I’m the Ducks I’d make the trade and guarantee two picks in the top 10, with one definitely in the top 5. Though teams aren’t going to trade away lottery picks so there is no way that Colorado would. Like you said, imagine having Hughes or Kakko on the 2nd line for that team. It just wouldn’t be fair.

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41 minutes ago, ducks07 said:

First of all theres no guarantee the Avs get the #1 pick. If they did land the #1 than instead of Gibson, I would try to offer a package such as Boyle, Slivferberg, and our 2nd round pick for the #1 overall. Not sure the Avs. would consider trading it anyways because they are a one line team and landing Hughes would give them a great one two punch down the middle. I feel Gibsons contract is perfect in value and length for the Ducks to build upon...Boyle is a great prospect and should be Gibsons backup starting next season, just not sure we would be able to afford him 2- 3 years from now and that will be around the time our cup window should be open. So, I guess with Boyle we can either trade him now for a high draft pick or wait 2-3 years and trade him at the deadline for a high caliber f/d for when we are poised to make a strong cup run. 

Well the whole point is they do get the pick lol.

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2 minutes ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

If I’m the Ducks I’d make the trade and guarantee two picks in the top 10, with one definitely in the top 5. Though teams aren’t going to trade away lottery picks so there is no way that Colorado would. Like you said, imagine having Hughes or Kakko on the 2nd line for that team. It just wouldn’t be fair.

It would have to be a draft day trade. And the hope that Colorado thinks they are a Gibson away from the cup

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3 hours ago, Retire9 said:

Why?

Who's in a better situation right now, Gibson or Anderson?

Gibson is the best goalie in the league but what's the point if we can't win? If we can't score and play well in front of him why waste him?

Because the thought process behind it is absent of logic, and your second question is irrelevant to the discussion?

Also...waste him? He's 25 years old and just signed a 8 year extension...silly comment.

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Dude. You don’t fraking trade Gibson for fraking picks. 

Insane. 

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It not picks.  it's the #1 pick which is surely an elite player.  It's never going to happen, but those types of trades are franchise makers (or breakers).  All offers should be considered.

Edited by Fowl
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There's some smart folks on this forum...

Interesting discussion.

 

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1 hour ago, Retire9 said:

It would have to be a draft day trade. And the hope that Colorado thinks they are a Gibson away from the cup

Agree that this is not a trade you’d make until the draft. Though, I think that pick is more valuable to them than Gibson is in the long run. They can upgrade at goalie without giving up that pick.

1 hour ago, BlazingEtem said:

Because the thought process behind it is absent of logic, and your second question is irrelevant to the discussion?

Also...waste him? He's 25 years old and just signed a 8 year extension...silly comment.

Not necessarily. To me, it depends on when you think the Ducks can legitimately contend again. If it’s in 2-3 years (which is very optimistic and assumes that the coaching, prospects and a key trade or two all work out) when Kesler and Perry are off of the books then those are years that you aren’t maximizing with Gibson while putting more, and likely harder, miles on him. Even with a 2020 lockout, you’d still just waste a year of his prime. Goaltenders are also seemingly more unpredictable with injuries and their performance drop offs tend to be sharper as they hit 30 and age on.

Gibson isn’t getting traded because it’s not a move Murray would ever make or one that Colorado would even consider. I just hope that he is still very solid in 3-6 years and that the Ducks are good enough to give him a shot to win a Cup. 

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At this point, I must admit any ideas or thoughts about a playoff team (for me) seem light years away right now.

I'd be happy if the ducks scored - I don't know - 3 or 4 goals a game for a while and actually competed with the opposition.  Maybe win a game or two - even in a row for heaven's sake instead of the dizzying thoughts of playoffs and stanley cup runs...

Oh and be able to just do the little things like exiting the zone without an icing, a missed pass, a fumbled pass, a 150 foot pass to a target that is stationary instead of a 5-10 foot pass to a forward that is skating and poised to receive it and get out.  Back when Scotty Bowman was coaching the old Montreal Canadiens, a team I despised when they lost a total of 9 games all season - someone asked him what his secret was and he said "getting the puck out of our own end as fast as possible."  And that was before the "new NHL" came to be as it is today.

The rule is if the puck isn't in your own end, you aren't going to give up any goals.  And that's always a good thing.

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If Colorado ends up with the first or second pick, I can't see any way they trade it for Gibson. I could see them rolling the dice and trading it at the deadline, but they have to think they're better off drafting a franchise forward and trying to sign Bobrovsky than giving that pick up.

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Kevin Boyle is already 26 years old... for me that's not a prospect with this age, for me is a prospect with max. 22 years old.... ok a goaltender's high is in the late 20's...

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11 hours ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

Not necessarily. To me, it depends on when you think the Ducks can legitimately contend again. If it’s in 2-3 years (which is very optimistic and assumes that the coaching, prospects and a key trade or two all work out) when Kesler and Perry are off of the books then those are years that you aren’t maximizing with Gibson while putting more, and likely harder, miles on him. Even with a 2020 lockout, you’d still just waste a year of his prime. Goaltenders are also seemingly more unpredictable with injuries and their performance drop offs tend to be sharper as they hit 30 and age on.

Gibson isn’t getting traded because it’s not a move Murray would ever make or one that Colorado would even consider. I just hope that he is still very solid in 3-6 years and that the Ducks are good enough to give him a shot to win a Cup. 

Goaltender primes typically last longer and age better than forwards/defensemen. While not every goalie is the same or has the same body, it is not uncommon for teams to rely on 30+ year olds in net. We have seen many goalies in recent times go on to play in their late 30's before slowing down. I think we have a good example of this on our roster in Ryan Miller, who may not have the same workload as he did 5 years ago, but still maintains a high level of play despite his age. Should Gibson not suffer any career threatening or altering injuries in the future, we could be potentially talking about 10+ years of having elite level goaltending. That, to me, is far more valuable than any prospect we were to draft in the top 5.

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5 hours ago, Spike1981 said:

Kevin Boyle is already 26 years old... for me that's not a prospect with this age, for me is a prospect with max. 22 years old.... ok a goaltender's high is in the late 20's...

Correct...Kevin Boyle has no trade value whatsover.

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47 minutes ago, BlazingEtem said:

Goaltender primes typically last longer and age better than forwards/defensemen. While not every goalie is the same or has the same body, it is not uncommon for teams to rely on 30+ year olds in net. We have seen many goalies in recent times go on to play in their late 30's before slowing down. I think we have a good example of this on our roster in Ryan Miller, who may not have the same workload as he did 5 years ago, but still maintains a high level of play despite his age. Should Gibson not suffer any career threatening or altering injuries in the future, we could be potentially talking about 10+ years of having elite level goaltending. That, to me, is far more valuable than any prospect we were to draft in the top 5.

I thought that goalies are riskier and tend to have sharper declines as they age, on top of being more prone to injuries. Yes, Ryan Miller has been great given his age but he’s also a back up with a far less strenuous workload and burden. Gibson has been been getting crushed with shots and chances for two years and having a couple of more years of harder workloads than other goalies before Ducks are hopefully contending makes me a little more apprehensive. I look at Sergei Bobrovsky who is 30 and how his play has fallen off despite having better support in front of him than the average team does. Timing is everything and I think that the Ducks are threading a very small needle as to if and when they can build a contending roster while Gibson is still good and healthy enough to get them to a Cup. The Ducks have also drafted three goalies in the last two years, and one thing Murray has been great at is drafting at that position. Maybe another Andersen/Gibson Ryle decision will have to be made in the next 3-5 years.

Any hypothetical trade with Gibson would be based on whether the Ducks got Kakko or Hughes with that pick. Such a trade isn’t going to happen but I’d risk taking 10+ years of one of them.

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10 hours ago, Spike1981 said:

Kevin Boyle is already 26 years old... for me that's not a prospect with this age, for me is a prospect with max. 22 years old.... ok a goaltender's high is in the late 20's...

A prospect is a player who hasn't moved past rookie status...nothing to do with the age of a player.

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46 minutes ago, ducks07 said:

A prospect is a player who hasn't moved past rookie status...nothing to do with the age of a player.

Quote

Rookie Qualifications
To be considered a rookie, a player must not have played in more than 25 NHL games in any preceding seasons, nor in six or more NHL games in each of any two preceding seasons. Any player at least 26 years of age (by September 15th of that season) is not considered a rookie.

Hockey Operations Guidelines

Boyle turned 26 on May 30, 2018. So no longer a rookie.

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One partial game from Kevin Boyle and some are ready to trade Gibson???  You don't trade John Gibson.  It's not like we have Freddy with Gibson waiting in the wings.

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20 hours ago, Fowl said:

It not picks.  it's the #1 pick which is surely an elite player.  It's never going to happen, but those types of trades are franchise makers (or breakers).  All offers should be considered.

It doesn't matter what fraking pick it is, or even 1st AND 2nd pick overall for the next draft: you don't trade an NHL goalie the caliber of Gibson for any fraking number of draft picks, no matter what.  A sane franchise would only ever even CONSIDER trading a Gibson for known nhl-level players, and maybe you get the picks thrown in for free.

You're basically saying the Leafs should trade Matthews right now for the 1st pick this season.  If that doesn't sound as crazy to you as it does to every other rational person, then I give up, cause you bonkers my man.

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