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Listening to Bob M this morning.

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23 minutes ago, Thom-74 said:

Three year rebuild was my expectation. May be shorter than that if last night's game wasn't an anomaly.

This term "rebuild" he threw out there...I just...I just don't see how we can even begin to say we are in that at all. And how we can say we even enter it any time soon. With Getz, Perry, and Kesler here I just don't see how we can rebuild anything. By the time they're out...we'll have some solid lines already.

We can reform around them and build up players like we did in 2008 when Teemu/Pronger/Scotty started to ease out...but a rebuild? I dunno...I don't think we are a rebuild team. I think we will be competitive again next season. It's like San Jose...they had that collapse in the playoffs in 2014...missed the playoffs the next season...and then were back in it and made the FINALS the next season. I feel we are closer to that right now.

Columbus is a few months away from a rebuild. Toronto went through a rebuild. Buffalo did. Edmonton did/is/may never get out of it.

Edited by Jasoaks
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25 minutes ago, Jasoaks said:

This term "rebuild" he threw out there...I just...I just don't see how we can even begin to say we are in that at all. And how we can say we even enter it any time soon. With Getz, Perry, and Kesler here I just don't see how we can rebuild anything. By the time they're out...we'll have some solid lines already.

We can reform around them and build up players like we did in 2008 when Teemu/Pronger/Scotty started to ease out...but a rebuild? I dunno...I don't think we are a rebuild team. I think we will be competitive again next season. It's like San Jose...they had that collapse in the playoffs in 2014...missed the playoffs the next season...and then were back in it and made the FINALS the next season. I feel we are closer to that right now.

Columbus is a few months away from a rebuild. Toronto went through a rebuild. Buffalo did. Edmonton did/is/may never get out of it.

Honestly I feel like this is closer to the 2011-2012 Ducks. Carlyle got fired that season too. The team was terrible that season, finished last in the divison. Murray makes some minor adjustments in the offseason, brings in some big defensemen including a PP guy in Souray, and the team finishes first in the division with a decent coach. I feel like we have enough pieces to at least be competing for a playoff spot next season, even if we aren't a true contender.

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5 hours ago, Fisix said:

Not going to be 5-6 year rebuild. 

 

Inherent in that is that we’re already in rebuild. 

 

Says we and and the kings are going for the same draft picks. 

lol good luck. The Kings are absolute trash and probably will lose all 3 remaining games against us. Ducks are lucky teams above them keep winning because their play of late could easily have them picking closer to 10 than top 5. So no, they aren’t really going for the same draft picks; clearly one team is full on tanking and it isn’t the Ducks. If Murray wanted the best chances at getting the best pick he wouldn’t have fired Carlyle. 

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2 hours ago, Jasoaks said:

Completely agree which is why I'm very curious about who Bob was thinking about when he made that comment. I'm wondering if it's more on D...I think he was unsatisfied with how Montour didn't take leadership accountability? Maybe Manson and Lindholm and Fowler, too? It's a weird comment to make without a follow up.

Larsson mentioned what a great mentor Lindholm was when they played together at the beginning of the season. Other than Guhle recently, I don't remember Fowler playing much with a rookie. Manson and Lindholm were together until this season and Manson was moved with Fowler. So I really don't know who's left.

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43 minutes ago, nieder said:

Honestly I feel like this is closer to the 2011-2012 Ducks. Carlyle got fired that season too. The team was terrible that season, finished last in the divison. Murray makes some minor adjustments in the offseason, brings in some big defensemen including a PP guy in Souray, and the team finishes first in the division with a decent coach. I feel like we have enough pieces to at least be competing for a playoff spot next season, even if we aren't a true contender.

Yeah, that's actually more the year I was thinking about haha...Pronger is gone, Scotty is gone, Teemu is easing out...and then we started forming around Getz/Perry and really committing to it. I definitely could see something like this next season. But right now we're around the 2008 area...not really sure who, besides Gibson, we'd really be forming around.

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21 minutes ago, DuckFan4Life said:

Larsson mentioned what a great mentor Lindholm was when they played together at the beginning of the season. Other than Guhle recently, I don't remember Fowler playing much with a rookie. Manson and Lindholm were together until this season and Manson was moved with Fowler. So I really don't know who's left.

Yeah..no clue...mysterious comment there...I think it may have been about the no longer with us Montour lol

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6 hours ago, Jasoaks said:

hmmm I don't agree with him on this. "just play the game" well...you play the game differently if your entire line is right handed. Then get players with strong back hands. Otherwise you can't play with as much speed as you want. Look, I'm not going to sit here and say I know ANYTHING about the nuances of hockey plays...but from my observation...when you have an all-right line...you either have to shoot with your backhand, pass with your backhand, get the pass and readjust aka not one-time the shot, or do an EXTRA pass you wouldn't have had to do if the first pass was to a lefty. I do agree with the playing off-side thing...but...I dunno. again, I actually DON'T know...just an observation I've made.

(also, you're doing us a great service by doing this! you don't need to read/respond to what I'm responding with...keep it up! :) )

I think that's what we are seeing now. The past few games. I get what he's saying about just play the game. Forget the Carlyle system of "thou shalt play where you are supposed to". What I'm seeing now from this group is a team having fun. It's fun to score and it's fun to win. Also I think moving forward, having the traditional 2 scoring lines, checking line and 4th line of bruisers is going out the window. That's dinosaur era thinking. I think IHCVPGMBM realizes now that if he doesn't want to end up extinct like Carlyle, he needs to change his view on hockey. Him getting a birds eye view of the game instead of from the ivory tower might actually save this organization.

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When I think rebuild, I think a team whose best players are past their prime, and a couple of them have not fully recovered from major injuries the last few seasons. You can be rebuilding and make the playoffs. But if you don't have a chance of playing in the conference finals, you're rebuilding.

Either the cup window is opening, or it's closing. If it's closing, the team rebuilds to start opening the window again. The Ducks are rebuilding based on the trajectory over the last three seasons.

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1 hour ago, Thom-74 said:

When I think rebuild, I think a team whose best players are past their prime, and a couple of them have not fully recovered from major injuries the last few seasons. You can be rebuilding and make the playoffs. But if you don't have a chance of playing in the conference finals, you're rebuilding.

Either the cup window is opening, or it's closing. If it's closing, the team rebuilds to start opening the window again. The Ducks are rebuilding based on the trajectory over the last three seasons.

I think Bob is trying to mimic the San Jose Sharks re-tool from 2014-2015, when they let Dan Boyle walk in free agency, bought out Havlat, traded Brad Stuart and Jason Demers, and stripped Thornton of the captaincy. Wilson's re-tool was based on trying to force their kids to step into leadership roles and clearing the way for some young kids to make an impact, the same way GMBM is currently doing with our 20-somethings. The Sharks missed the playoffs for one season while their kids got their feet under them, and then went to the SCF Finals the following season. I bet GMBM thinks we can do the same in a 1-2 year time frame. The questions are: does GMBM have the guts to make some of the same moves that GMDW did, and are our 20-somethings capable of stepping up the way theirs did? 

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5 hours ago, Jasoaks said:

This term "rebuild" he threw out there...I just...I just don't see how we can even begin to say we are in that at all. And how we can say we even enter it any time soon. With Getz, Perry, and Kesler here I just don't see how we can rebuild anything. By the time they're out...we'll have some solid lines already.

We can reform around them and build up players like we did in 2008 when Teemu/Pronger/Scotty started to ease out...but a rebuild? I dunno...I don't think we are a rebuild team. I think we will be competitive again next season. It's like San Jose...they had that collapse in the playoffs in 2014...missed the playoffs the next season...and then were back in it and made the FINALS the next season. I feel we are closer to that right now.

Columbus is a few months away from a rebuild. Toronto went through a rebuild. Buffalo did. Edmonton did/is/may never get out of it.

Im totally with you on this. I’ve been saying for a couple months now that next season looks bright. A new coach should be able to (hopefully) get the D back in order and we have nice scoring options too mixed with old and young players. I absolutely think we could be right back in the POs next year too. We are also in a great situation right now in that we are going to be able to draft pretty well thie summer which is just gravy on a nice plate. So in short I don’t think we are in a rebuild at all either 

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1 hour ago, RobD360 said:

Im totally with you on this. I’ve been saying for a couple months now that next season looks bright. A new coach should be able to (hopefully) get the D back in order and we have nice scoring options too mixed with old and young players. I absolutely think we could be right back in the POs next year too. We are also in a great situation right now in that we are going to be able to draft pretty well thie summer which is just gravy on a nice plate. So in short I don’t think we are in a rebuild at all either 

If anything, this season was/is a rebuild as we transition to next year with a new coach. The kids who have mass talent are getting their feet wet now and should (hopefully) take the appropriate steps next season. Coupled with solid goaltending and I can’t say next year is a rebuild year, a retool like DLaw says the Sharks did but not a full rebuild like Van or Red Wings etc.... we def have the ability and personnel to make the POs next year and win a round or 2

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3 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

I think Bob is trying to mimic the San Jose Sharks re-tool from 2014-2015, when they let Dan Boyle walk in free agency, bought out Havlat, traded Brad Stuart and Jason Demers, and stripped Thornton of the captaincy. Wilson's re-tool was based on trying to force their kids to step into leadership roles and clearing the way for some young kids to make an impact, the same way GMBM is currently doing with our 20-somethings. The Sharks missed the playoffs for one season while their kids got their feet under them, and then went to the SCF Finals the following season. I bet GMBM thinks we can do the same in a 1-2 year time frame. The questions are: does GMBM have the guts to make some of the same moves that GMDW did, and are our 20-somethings capable of stepping up the way theirs did? 

I certainly hope this doesn't happen. I think Getzlaf has said all the right things this season. He's having a down year, but so is the rest of the team and he is still the leading scorer...somehow.

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10 hours ago, Thom-74 said:

When I think rebuild, I think a team whose best players are past their prime, and a couple of them have not fully recovered from major injuries the last few seasons. You can be rebuilding and make the playoffs. But if you don't have a chance of playing in the conference finals, you're rebuilding.

Either the cup window is opening, or it's closing. If it's closing, the team rebuilds to start opening the window again. The Ducks are rebuilding based on the trajectory over the last three seasons.

From the Looks of it...They are doing it with some of the Youth in their lineup. They seem to be rebuilding in One part that is.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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9 hours ago, BlazingEtem said:

I certainly hope this doesn't happen. I think Getzlaf has said all the right things this season. He's having a down year, but so is the rest of the team and he is still the leading scorer...somehow.

I don’t think that will happen. But the Ducks did rotate the “A” this season in an effort to find more leadership from the next generation. Which unfortunately failed miserably this season because other than Silfverberg none of our 20-somethings showed any.

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15 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

I think Bob is trying to mimic the San Jose Sharks re-tool from 2014-2015, <snip> I bet GMBM thinks we can do the same in a 1-2 year time frame. The questions are: does GMBM have the guts to make some of the same moves that GMDW did, and are our 20-somethings capable of stepping up the way theirs did? 

On the first question, on one hand, gmbm tends to play it safe. On the other hand, being down on the ice may have convinced him of the need to take more gutsy actions. We shall see.

On the second question, we have a few weeks to find out whether Friday's game was an outlier or a glimpse of the future.  If it's the latter, you'd have to count the Ducks as one of the luckiest franchises in the league.

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12 hours ago, BlazingEtem said:

I certainly hope this doesn't happen. I think Getzlaf has said all the right things this season. He's having a down year, but so is the rest of the team and he is still the leading scorer...somehow.

Two Getzlaf led teams have quit on Carlyle.  That’s not a great display of leadership IMO.  

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Read another article regarding the Q&A session. I found the following interesting: OFFSEASON STRATEGY

He plans to look at the college free agent market as well as the European market. He is looking to add a third line winger and right-hand shooting defenseman with size. Murray also stressed he wants to avoid doing long term contracts.

WILL RE-TOOLING INCLUDE BUYOUTS AND TRADES

"No one is untouchable" Murray said. He plans to talk to the owners during the offseason and he is definitely looking into future trades. The owners aren't big on buy-outs.

THOUGHTS ON COMTOIS DEVELOPMENT

The "sooner he gets here (Anaheim) the better" Murray said about the future of Max. He didn't like the fact he had to send him back to junior and wants to change that process if possible. He has been discussing it with the NHL.

THOUGHTS ON THE ANAHEIM DEFENSIVE CORE

Having good partners is key he said. He likes the pairing of Manson and Lindholm. He would like to add a player with size that can quarterback the power play (ie Shea Weber). Murray wants more size on his blue line in general.

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2 hours ago, Fowl said:

Two Getzlaf led teams have quit on Carlyle.  That’s not a great display of leadership IMO.  

If the majority of his teammates have a problem with the coach, then there is not much he can do about it. Also he's missed a good chunk of time again this year due to injury. I'm not sure/remember how it all went down in 2012, but I'm not gonna hold this recent firing over his head. If anyone's leadership should be put into question, it should BM for taking shots at his players at a time it was obvious that RC's coaching had worn on the players and prolonging an already sinking ship.

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5 minutes ago, dukitup said:

THOUGHTS ON THE ANAHEIM DEFENSIVE CORE

Having good partners is key he said. He likes the pairing of Manson and Lindholm. He would like to add a player with size that can quarterback the power play (ie Shea Weber). Murray wants more size on his blue line in general.

Sounds like Shea Theodore -_-

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@BlazingEtem

We disagree.  I blame BM for re-hiring Carlyle.  I blame the players for quitting on him.  Although at this point, I think they should have kept RC to ensure the tank would succeed.

Edited by Fowl
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30 minutes ago, Fowl said:

@BlazingEtem

We disagree.  I blame BM for re-hiring Carlyle.  I blame the players for quitting on him.  Although at this point, I think they should have kept RC to ensure the tank would succeed.

That's fair. RC would definitely have this team in Ottawa point territory if he was still around.

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30 minutes ago, dukitup said:

Read another article regarding the Q&A session. I found the following interesting: OFFSEASON STRATEGY

He plans to look at the college free agent market as well as the European market. He is looking to add a third line winger and right-hand shooting defenseman with size. Murray also stressed he wants to avoid doing long term contracts.

WILL RE-TOOLING INCLUDE BUYOUTS AND TRADES

"No one is untouchable" Murray said. He plans to talk to the owners during the offseason and he is definitely looking into future trades. The owners aren't big on buy-outs.

THOUGHTS ON COMTOIS DEVELOPMENT

The "sooner he gets here (Anaheim) the better" Murray said about the future of Max. He didn't like the fact he had to send him back to junior and wants to change that process if possible. He has been discussing it with the NHL.

THOUGHTS ON THE ANAHEIM DEFENSIVE CORE

Having good partners is key he said. He likes the pairing of Manson and Lindholm. He would like to add a player with size that can quarterback the power play (ie Shea Weber). Murray wants more size on his blue line in general.

The college free agent market seems to have an interesting crop of right defense based on this article. Link. Rob Michel might fit the goal of more size and might compliment Fowler as a RHD that has both physicality and offensive potential. 

And since it never hurts to have big centers, especially defensively strong centers, Nico Sturm would be an interesting prospect. Although he is only a Junior and may not leave college. 

While it is hit or miss with college free agents (also considering I only know about them from the article), it will be interesting to see if the Ducks can get an impact player from the college ranks. 

 

 

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41 minutes ago, BlazingEtem said:

Sounds like Shea Theodore -_-

Or Seth Jones. He needs to send Selanne to Columbus to butter up Kekalainen.

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1) the article seems a bit off on emphasis. I got the feeling BM doesn’t like to draft from college as much because they don’t play as long a season as the Europeans do. 

2) I think if we’re talking about a player on the current roster, the veterans I see as possibly having issues with rookies is Getz and maybe Fowler or Manson. I got the feeling he was talking about a forward, though. Especially since he immediately brought up Silf. Just a feeling. 

3) the post about the rebuild - it was three lines. The middle one was my commentary. He definitely thinks we’re in or looking at a rebuild. Kes is stuck at 70% and Eaves is just absent.  We have 3 maybe only 2 solid d men.  We are running with a bunch of rookies. If we aren’t rebuilding now, I don’t know what to call it. 

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11 hours ago, Fowl said:

Two Getzlaf led teams have quit on Carlyle.  That’s not a great display of leadership IMO.  

By Carlyle?  Or by Murray, since he rehired a laughingstock of a coach?  Either way, I agree.  

If you're talking about Getzlaf, I don't know what you expect the guy to do.  It's hard to succeed as a leader when your boss continues to make awful choices.  His options were: 1) Keep your head down, do what Carlyle says, and let things play out or 2) Try to win hockey games by committing mutiny.  Getzlaf is a professional, so he chose option 1.  But it's pretty hard to get motivated in that situation.

Edited by gorbachav5
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I’m not so sure mutiny by quit wasn’t employed.  At least it looked that way - TWICE.

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17 hours ago, BlazingEtem said:

If the majority of his teammates have a problem with the coach, then there is not much he can do about it.

Can't disagree with this more.

You organize the team to confront management with examples of why the coach needs to go, and in the meantime you remind them they are paid for the job on the ice, and intentionally not doing it is an affront to the fans and is not living up to the word of their contract.

That's what the adult in the room, the leader, can do.  I agree that his apparent participation in the two tanks is a blemish on his leadership record and professional maturity.

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8 minutes ago, gotchabari said:

Can't disagree with this more.

You organize the team to confront management with examples of why the coach needs to go, and in the meantime you remind them they are paid for the job on the ice, and intentionally not doing it is an affront to the fans and is not living up to the word of their contract.

That's what the adult in the room, the leader, can do.  I agree that his apparent participation in the two tanks is a blemish on his leadership record and professional maturity.

How do you know he didn't do that?  If memory serves, something like that happened the last time Carlyle got fired.  And then Murray went and re-hired the guy.

When management continues to fail you utterly, it's not a conscious decision to quit.  You naturally don't work quite as hard.  It takes a ton of motivation to work as hard as they need to work to keep themselves going in a very difficult sport.  When the head coach of your team is actively torpedoing that hard work, you can tell yourself to keep working hard, but it becomes a lot more difficult.  

I don't think any of these guys decided to quit on Carlyle.  I think it was a subconscious reaction to playing under him.

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1 hour ago, gorbachav5 said:

How do you know he didn't do that?  If memory serves, something like that happened the last time Carlyle got fired.  And then Murray went and re-hired the guy.

When management continues to fail you utterly, it's not a conscious decision to quit.  You naturally don't work quite as hard.  It takes a ton of motivation to work as hard as they need to work to keep themselves going in a very difficult sport.  When the head coach of your team is actively torpedoing that hard work, you can tell yourself to keep working hard, but it becomes a lot more difficult.  

I don't think any of these guys decided to quit on Carlyle.  I think it was a subconscious reaction to playing under him.

In addition to trying to play a system that clearly wasn’t working. Lindholm mentioned more than once that he felt they were chasing the play and players. (Not his exact words). It was mentioned that the team has since, with the player’s buy-in, changed the system. They are not covering a player but rather a space which has considerably cut down on the players chasing the play and the opposing team’s SOG. The players were frustrated and RC did nothing to fix the situation. I don’t believe they all gave up on the team or the coach. I think they knew what they were doing wasn’t working no matter what they did and they didn’t have the power to change it. 

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