Jump to content
The Official Site of the Anaheim Ducks
Fisix

Listening to Bob M this morning.

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, gorbachav5 said:

How do you know he didn't do that? 

Well, I can't say they didn't organize a confrontation with management (except for the fact that an entire team coming to management would be hard to ignore, so we just have to use our gut fell on that one), but I can say for the latter that they were demonstrably tanking, so he either didn't try to remind them of the professional responsibility or failed in doing so.  Either one not a very great sign of leadership.  It happening twice on his watch also doesn't bode well.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just want to add that BM also asked the older guys on the team ( Getz being one of them) about bringing RC back.

And, it has been mentioned several times that BM doesn't actually do the duties of the coach in game and let's the assistants do it. I had said when RC was still around to get rid of Randy and replace them with the assistants. We are viewing a different team. They still make plenty of mistakes but what a world of difference! I don't think that BM , who never had any HC experience, turned this team around on his own. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, gotchabari said:

Well, I can't say they didn't organize a confrontation with management (except for the fact that an entire team coming to management would be hard to ignore, so we just have to use our gut fell on that one), but I can say for the latter that they were demonstrably tanking, so he either didn't try to remind them of the professional responsibility or failed in doing so.  Either one not a very great sign of leadership.  It happening twice on his watch also doesn't bode well.

 

I definitely read something that he approached Bob about it the last time this happened with Carlyle prior to Carlyle being fired, so we know Getzlaf has tried that approach in the past.  I also don't believe they were trying to lose.  I think less effort was being given as a subconscious reaction to management asking them mow a 2-acre lawn and then giving them a pair of children's scissors.  

I don't think Getzlaf is ever going to be mistaken for Steve Yzerman or Mark Messier.  A better captain might have been able to keep the guys focused and motivated.  But I also don't think this team's failure to play well under Carlyle is any serious knock on his character or leadership.  Carlyle had become a terrible coach who was difficult to play for by the end of his first stint with the Ducks, he continued to be a terrible coach in Toronto, and then he was rehired by the Ducks to reprise his role as a terrible coach who is difficult to play for.  There's not much Getzlaf can do and I think it's unfair to have expected him to do much more.

That thing about it happening twice on his watch applies much more to Murray saddling the Ducks with a bad head coach than it does to Getzlaf.

Edit: Also, to everyone saying they were deliberately tanking: I want to reiterate what someone said above.  They were playing in a "system" that made them look awful.  It made them look like they were always reacting to the play.  So while I won't deny there was a lack of normal effort (although I will deny that there was malicious intent unless we hear otherwise), I think a lot of what we as fans saw as lack of effort was players running around trying to play a system that made no sense.

Edited by gorbachav5
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, gorbachav5 said:

That thing about it happening twice on his watch applies much more to Murray saddling the Ducks with a bad head coach than it does to Getzlaf.

Edit: Also, to everyone saying they were deliberately tanking: I want to reiterate what someone said above.  They were playing in a "system" that made them look awful.  It made them look like they were always reacting to the play.  So while I won't deny there was a lack of normal effort (although I will deny that there was malicious intent unless we hear otherwise), I think a lot of what we as fans saw as lack of effort was players running around trying to play a system that made no sense.

Murray only hired Carlyle once.

A system doesn't make you fumble a puck, fail to aim a pass, lose pucks at the point (all under zero pressure), shoot 3-feet wide of a yawning net, etc.  Yes, some of their failures were allowing breakaways and lapsed coverage, which can be blamed on a system, but they seriously looked like Keystone Cops out there.

It was basically like last night, only for 2 months.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, gotchabari said:

Murray only hired Carlyle once.

A system doesn't make you fumble a puck, fail to aim a pass, lose pucks at the point (all under zero pressure), shoot 3-feet wide of a yawning net, etc.  Yes, some of their failures were allowing breakaways and lapsed coverage, which can be blamed on a system, but they seriously looked like Keystone Cops out there.

It was basically like last night, only for 2 months.

Yep, that's the Carlyle effect.  It's what it looked like before he left the first time and it's what Toronto looked like by the end of his time there as well.  No, the "system" doesn't make you do those things, but those things happen a lot more often when you don't know where you're supposed to be and you have no time with the puck because none of your passing options are in good spots.  Those effects you're talking about all tend to happen when you get very few opportunities to make good plays.  You start fumbling open opportunities because you know that's the only one you're going to get and the pressure is ramped up to 11.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, gorbachav5 said:

Yep, that's the Carlyle effect.  It's what it looked like before he left the first time and it's what Toronto looked like by the end of his time there as well.  No, the "system" doesn't make you do those things, but those things happen a lot more often when you don't know where you're supposed to be and you have no time with the puck because none of your passing options are in good spots.  Those effects you're talking about all tend to happen when you get very few opportunities to make good plays.  You start fumbling open opportunities because you know that's the only one you're going to get and the pressure is ramped up to 11.  

That doesn't explain last night, then.

I think we've given our players way too much leeway in absolving them of their share of the blame in this sh*tshow. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, gotchabari said:

That doesn't explain last night, then.

I think we've given our players way too much leeway in absolving them of their share of the blame in this sh*tshow. 

I agree. I'm a firm believer in the "Carlyle effect", but I also think most of these guys (Cogs, Kes and Silf being the notable exceptions) turned into quitters at various points of the season, and I think that was really disappointing to see (and is part of the reason I hate this tank talk). I'll point to the defensive effort they gave in front of Gibby as Exhibit A. It doesn't take a system to tie up a stick or clear a puck or a body from in front of the net. That's just a basic skill, and hardly any of our guys gave much of an effort to do any of those things since December. Their effort to defend even basic plays was atrocious, and in doing so they totally hung their goaltender - their own TEAMMATE - out to dry. They absolutely deserve blame for that. A LOT of blame.

But I'll also agree with the sentiment that I doubt most quit to get RC fired. Most were likely quitting just out of frustration (the lawn analogy works here). However, I don't think it was "subconscious" quitting either. They knew they were giving poor efforts, but they just stopped caring after a while. So they consciously quit.

Regardless, part of what GMIHCBM is doing behind the bench right now is evaluating the on-ice leadership, which was clearly lacking all season. Does that include an evaluation of Getzlaf? It damn well better. Does it mean that he should be replaced as captain? None of us can possibly know that because we're not in the room. But I don't think even Getzlaf's "C" should be considered untouchable if it means moving the team in a better direction for the long-term health of the franchise.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

I agree. I'm a firm believer in the "Carlyle effect", but I also think most of these guys (Cogs, Kes and Silf being the notable exceptions) turned into quitters at various points of the season, and I think that was really disappointing to see (and is part of the reason I hate this tank talk). I'll point to the defensive effort they gave in front of Gibby as Exhibit A. It doesn't take a system to tie up a stick or clear a puck or a body from in front of the net. That's just a basic skill, and hardly any of our guys gave much of an effort to do any of those things since December. Their effort to defend even basic plays was atrocious, and in doing so they totally hung their goaltender - their own TEAMMATE - out to dry. They absolutely deserve blame for that. A LOT of blame.

But I'll also agree with the sentiment that I doubt most quit to get RC fired. Most were likely quitting just out of frustration (the lawn analogy works here). However, I don't think it was "subconscious" quitting either. They knew they were giving poor efforts, but they just stopped caring after a while. So they consciously quit.

Regardless, part of what GMIHCBM is doing behind the bench right now is evaluating the on-ice leadership, which was clearly lacking all season. Does that include an evaluation of Getzlaf? It damn well better. Does it mean that he should be replaced as captain? None of us can possibly know that because we're not in the room. But I don't think even Getzlaf's "C" should be considered untouchable if it means moving the team in a better direction for the long-term health of the franchise.

Excellent take on the subject  of team leadership - I wouldn't mind if Getz loses his  "C ". His inability to shoot the damn puck instead of trying to pass all the time - he had least three good clean shots and either passed them away, and had a couple of give aways. Some nights he get's just " cantankerous and gets into the Ref 's heads and  costs us penalties !! I know NOTHING except the the team is playing a better brand of hockey than earlier in the year. GOOD LUCK to the next person who will inherit a TOUGH job

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, gorbachav5 said:

How do you know he didn't do that? 

Because he looked like he was skating with a refrigerator on his back....especially prior to the first Carlyle firing.  About 60% effort.  This time around looked about 75% effort.  Just my observations of course.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/9/2019 at 10:27 AM, BombaysTripleDeke said:

Goaltending is key because of how much it can make or break a team. The problem that I have with his comment is that the league has been putting more of an emphasis on goal scoring for a while now. Defense doesn’t win championships anymore.

Sorry, but Caps last year won 6  their last 7, last year in the playoffs vs TB and LV when they dramatically stepped up their defensive game.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, JiggyToTheCup said:

Sorry, but Caps last year won 6  their last 7, last year in the playoffs vs TB and LV when they dramatically stepped up their defensive game.

The caps also have one of the top offenses in the NHL and a top 10 goaltender in holtby. Let me clarify: you do need a competent defense but not necessarily a dominant one with talent to win nowadays. Vegas got to the SC final with Fluery and a great offense. The penguins won a cup without Letang. Scoring and solid goaltending are more important imo.

The Ducks are the worst offensive team in the NHL which I think is a much bigger issue than their blue line.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

The caps also have one of the top offenses in the NHL and a top 10 goaltender in holtby. Let me clarify: you do need a competent defense but not necessarily a dominant one with talent to win nowadays. Vegas got to the SC final with Fluery and a great offense. The penguins won a cup without Letang. Scoring and solid goaltending are more important imo.

The Ducks are the worst offensive team in the NHL which I think is a much bigger issue than their blue line.

Perry last year .24 goals, .45 assists per game. This year .16 goals, .16 assists

Getzlaf last year .20 goals, .89 assists per game. This year .19 goals, .49 assists

Rakell last year .44 goals, .45 assists per game. This year .19 goals, .33 assists

Silferberg last year .22 goals, .30 assists per game. This year .31 goals, .20 assists

Fowler last year .12 goals, .36 assists per game. This year .09 goals, .26 assists

Should have probably made some spread sheet to show the drop off better. Also should have included more players but was getting depressed by what is becoming an inconsequential summary of how the team stopped putting up points but not why between this year and last. 

Have seen improvements with how the team is playing and am still holding out hopes for some miracle. Just don't understand how they can play better some games and then play like they did against the Kings. Really tired of the excuse of not playing the full 60 minutes. For the amount they are getting paid to not show up for 25 minutes tops out of a 60 minute game is crazy. Bring back Sherwood because at least he hustles every shift. Not always in the right direction but at least something.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Southbayduck said:

Perry last year .24 goals, .45 assists per game. This year .16 goals, .16 assists

Getzlaf last year .20 goals, .89 assists per game. This year .19 goals, .49 assists

Rakell last year .44 goals, .45 assists per game. This year .19 goals, .33 assists

Silferberg last year .22 goals, .30 assists per game. This year .31 goals, .20 assists

Fowler last year .12 goals, .36 assists per game. This year .09 goals, .26 assists

Should have probably made some spread sheet to show the drop off better. Also should have included more players but was getting depressed by what is becoming an inconsequential summary of how the team stopped putting up points but not why between this year and last. 

Have seen improvements with how the team is playing and am still holding out hopes for some miracle. Just don't understand how they can play better some games and then play like they did against the Kings. Really tired of the excuse of not playing the full 60 minutes. For the amount they are getting paid to not show up for 25 minutes tops out of a 60 minute game is crazy. Bring back Sherwood because at least he hustles every shift. Not always in the right direction but at least something.

 

Yeah. The Ducks were still in the bottom half of the league in offense last year also. Silfverberg is putting up roughly what he did last year, which is fine, but it’s going to cost more for it going forward if he’s able to keep it up. Perry is still a question mark with how he’ll eventually bounce back. Kesler’s health is well documented. Rakell having an off year doesn’t worry me since we’ve seen his skill set and know that he can score. 

I like Sherwood on the 4th line but I don’t see where they is necessarily a spot for him next year unless Murray ships someone out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, Southbayduck said:

Have seen improvements with how the team is playing and am still holding out hopes for some miracle. Just don't understand how they can play better some games and then play like they did against the Kings. Really tired of the excuse of not playing the full 60 minutes. For the amount they are getting paid to not show up for 25 minutes tops out of a 60 minute game is crazy. Bring back Sherwood because at least he hustles every shift. Not always in the right direction but at least something.

Well, I mean they are not going to win every game LOL. They've lost bad and they've come back like in the first Washington game. Only a handful of games left in the season then Murray can digest all that he's observed while being on the bench. I think this team will take gradual steps the next couple of seasons. A guy like Sherwood who's having a decent season in the AHL could find a role that needs to be filled.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/11/2019 at 11:25 AM, gotchabari said:

Murray only hired Carlyle once.

A system doesn't make you fumble a puck, fail to aim a pass, lose pucks at the point (all under zero pressure), shoot 3-feet wide of a yawning net, etc.  Yes, some of their failures were allowing breakaways and lapsed coverage, which can be blamed on a system, but they seriously looked like Keystone Cops out there.

It was basically like last night, only for 2 months.

You are correct...but these problems were also problems back when we won the division a bunch of times in a row. They just didn't appear to matter 'cause the system was fine. A bad system is not only bad, but it completely exposes already existing problems and magnifies them to no end.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/11/2019 at 6:55 PM, BombaysTripleDeke said:

The caps also have one of the top offenses in the NHL and a top 10 goaltender in holtby. Let me clarify: you do need a competent defense but not necessarily a dominant one with talent to win nowadays. Vegas got to the SC final with Fluery and a great offense. The penguins won a cup without Letang. Scoring and solid goaltending are more important imo.

The Ducks are the worst offensive team in the NHL which I think is a much bigger issue than their blue line.

I would include solid goaltending into defense though...you need a strong goalie, but the defensive system and the execution of that (i would think) is built around your goalie.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/11/2019 at 10:34 PM, BombaysTripleDeke said:

Yeah. The Ducks were still in the bottom half of the league in offense last year also. Silfverberg is putting up roughly what he did last year, which is fine, but it’s going to cost more for it going forward if he’s able to keep it up. Perry is still a question mark with how he’ll eventually bounce back. Kesler’s health is well documented. Rakell having an off year doesn’t worry me since we’ve seen his skill set and know that he can score. 

I like Sherwood on the 4th line but I don’t see where they is necessarily a spot for him next year unless Murray ships someone out.

How much of this is the Carlyle effect and how much is talent though? We won't know for sure until a new coach is hired and we see some results next season, but so far the results since the firing make it look like the Carlyle effect is more to blame. 

And as far as Perry goes, in the best interests of the team, I think it's time to ask him to waive that NMC and to move on from him. He'll be 34 next season with an $8.625M cap hit and $8M due in salary. He's never been a 200-foot player, and he's moving even slower in the one zone he does play in. And with Kase, Silf, Terry, and Sprong in the mix, there's just no space on the roster for his declining skills or his cap hit. This is one of those "business decisions" that separate good GMs from great GMs, and it'll be interesting to see which one GMBM wants to be. Since we're likely to end up with 3 of the top 36 draft picks, I think BM should consider to using either our later 1st or early 2nd to help move that contract. I could see Perry waiving the NMC too if he thinks he'll be relegated to bottom-6 duty next season. Maybe a team like Montreal would be interested, since they have the cap space and unimpressive depth on RW. Or Columbus, since they traded away most of their draft picks, will likely lose Panarin, and also have a crap load of cap space. Regardless, its time to open up Perry's spot for one of these kids.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

How much of this is the Carlyle effect and how much is talent though? We won't know for sure until a new coach is hired and we see some results next season, but so far the results since the firing make it look like the Carlyle effect is more to blame. 

And as far as Perry goes, in the best interests of the team, I think it's time to ask him to waive that NMC and to move on from him. He'll be 34 next season with an $8.625M cap hit and $8M due in salary. He's never been a 200-foot player, and he's moving even slower in the one zone he does play in. And with Kase, Silf, Terry, and Sprong in the mix, there's just no space on the roster for his declining skills or his cap hit. This is one of those "business decisions" that separate good GMs from great GMs, and it'll be interesting to see which one GMBM wants to be. Since we're likely to end up with 3 of the top 36 draft picks, I think BM should consider to using either our later 1st or early 2nd to help move that contract. I could see Perry waiving the NMC too if he thinks he'll be relegated to bottom-6 duty next season. Maybe a team like Montreal would be interested, since they have the cap space and unimpressive depth on RW. Or Columbus, since they traded away most of their draft picks, will likely lose Panarin, and also have a crap load of cap space. Regardless, its time to open up Perry's spot for one of these kids.

I think his skating has been much better after his surgery but even if he did waive his NMC the Ducks would probably still have to retain salary. I don't see him agreeing to Columbus. Maybe if BM can work out a trade with Toronto to get Kapanen in exchange for Perry and ??? because I think that's probably the only place Perry would agree to go to.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jasoaks said:

I would include solid goaltending into defense though...you need a strong goalie, but the defensive system and the execution of that (i would think) is built around your goalie.

Yeah. It’s a different dynamic in where strong goaltending can cover for lackluster defense but strong defense can’t cover for weak goaltending in nearly the same way. I do think that the system is more important than the talent. The Ducks could use a blue line upgrade but I don’t think it’s their most pressing need.

22 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

How much of this is the Carlyle effect and how much is talent though? We won't know for sure until a new coach is hired and we see some results next season, but so far the results since the firing make it look like the Carlyle effect is more to blame. 

And as far as Perry goes, in the best interests of the team, I think it's time to ask him to waive that NMC and to move on from him. He'll be 34 next season with an $8.625M cap hit and $8M due in salary. He's never been a 200-foot player, and he's moving even slower in the one zone he does play in. And with Kase, Silf, Terry, and Sprong in the mix, there's just no space on the roster for his declining skills or his cap hit. This is one of those "business decisions" that separate good GMs from great GMs, and it'll be interesting to see which one GMBM wants to be. Since we're likely to end up with 3 of the top 36 draft picks, I think BM should consider to using either our later 1st or early 2nd to help move that contract. I could see Perry waiving the NMC too if he thinks he'll be relegated to bottom-6 duty next season. Maybe a team like Montreal would be interested, since they have the cap space and unimpressive depth on RW. Or Columbus, since they traded away most of their draft picks, will likely lose Panarin, and also have a crap load of cap space. Regardless, its time to open up Perry's spot for one of these kids.

Oh, I don’t doubt that there is a Carlyle effect but as to how much can be contributed towards it rather than playing style and natural decline of key forwards is beyond my mathematical limits. I’m not sold on the scoring talent on this roster even with a new coach. 

When the Ducks extended Silfverberg, part of me thought and thinks that Murray is going to make a major push to try and move Perry this summer. That extension would then make a ton more sense. Maybe he’s able to do it this offseason with less money and term left for a team take on. I like the idea of Columbus or Montreal but Perry holds all of the cards and I don’t if he’d go to either place or anywhere. Though Montreal would seem like the far more enticing choice of the two. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

Yeah. It’s a different dynamic in where strong goaltending can cover for lackluster defense but strong defense can’t cover for weak goaltending in nearly the same way. I do think that the system is more important than the talent. The Ducks could use a blue line upgrade but I don’t think it’s their most pressing need.

Oh, I don’t doubt that there is a Carlyle effect but as to how much can be contributed towards it rather than playing style and natural decline of key forwards is beyond my mathematical limits. I’m not sold on the scoring talent on this roster even with a new coach

When the Ducks extended Silfverberg, part of me thought and thinks that Murray is going to make a major push to try and move Perry this summer. That extension would then make a ton more sense. Maybe he’s able to do it this offseason with less money and term left for a team take on. I like the idea of Columbus or Montreal but Perry holds all of the cards and I don’t if he’d go to either place or anywhere. Though Montreal would seem like the far more enticing choice of the two. 

I think we're going to be more than fine at the wing positions, even if no additions to the current roster, but we could definitely use another creative playmaker in the middle to be the set-up man. Whether that player comes through the draft, from moving Terry into the middle, from a young guy like Steel or Lundestrom stepping up, or via trade, that seems to be the one of the two main areas that we need an immediate upgrade this summer (the other being a right-shot D-man). It was painfully obvious when Getz was recently on the shelf that we NEED that guy on this team more than another winger. My choice would be to chase Alex Wennberg, who had 46 assists (Getzlafian numbers!) as a 22-year-old in Columbus before Torts decided to crush his confidence. Given what's gone on there between Torts and Wennberg, you'd expect that Columbus is going to trade him this summer (if Torts and Jarmo are still employed), probably in an effort to get back into the 1st round of the draft. But even if we aren't in on Wennberg, we need to find a playmaker somewhere. Fortunately we have some assets to help us do that, so I'm optimistic GMBM will figure something out.

Regarding Perry, this isn't about spending 5+ years somewhere and becoming entrenched in a community. It's possibly his final two seasons in the league, and with his career winding down I would expect that he would want to go just about anywhere that he would get a legit chance to play a top-6 role on a team that isn't in full rebuild re-tool mode. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

Yeah. It’s a different dynamic in where strong goaltending can cover for lackluster defense but strong defense can’t cover for weak goaltending in nearly the same way. I do think that the system is more important than the talent. The Ducks could use a blue line upgrade but I don’t think it’s their most pressing need.

Oh, I don’t doubt that there is a Carlyle effect but as to how much can be contributed towards it rather than playing style and natural decline of key forwards is beyond my mathematical limits. I’m not sold on the scoring talent on this roster even with a new coach. 

When the Ducks extended Silfverberg, part of me thought and thinks that Murray is going to make a major push to try and move Perry this summer. That extension would then make a ton more sense. Maybe he’s able to do it this offseason with less money and term left for a team take on. I like the idea of Columbus or Montreal but Perry holds all of the cards and I don’t if he’d go to either place or anywhere. Though Montreal would seem like the far more enticing choice of the two. 

I don't know Perry...but...I can't imagine him wanting to leave Anaheim. ESPECIALLY for Montreal or Columbus...it's one thing for these types of players to move to a team closer to winning the cup...but...I do believe we're closer than either of those teams lol...like you don't hear of future hall of famers deciding to waive the NMC they negotiated for so they can leave a team so the TEAM can have better cap options to go to a team that is at LEAST not any closer to winning a cup. You hear of these star players leaving a team that's in a deep rebuild to go to a team that is on the upside.

Perry holds all the cards. It would be INSULTING for Bob to ask Perry to waive his NMC so the team can do better and so Perry can do worse. But I'm just speaking of the teams you mention...it would be another thing if he went to like...Toronto or something (not that that would ever happen...just an example)

I just don't see how Columbus or Montreal has any level of interest for Perry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, dtsdlaw said:

I think we're going to be more than fine at the wing positions, even if no additions to the current roster, but we could definitely use another creative playmaker in the middle to be the set-up man. Whether that player comes through the draft, from moving Terry into the middle, from a young guy like Steel or Lundestrom stepping up, or via trade, that seems to be the one of the two main areas that we need an immediate upgrade this summer (the other being a right-shot D-man). It was painfully obvious when Getz was recently on the shelf that we NEED that guy on this team more than another winger. My choice would be to chase Alex Wennberg, who had 46 assists (Getzlafian numbers!) as a 22-year-old in Columbus before Torts decided to crush his confidence. Given what's gone on there between Torts and Wennberg, you'd expect that Columbus is going to trade him this summer (if Torts and Jarmo are still employed), probably in an effort to get back into the 1st round of the draft. But even if we aren't in on Wennberg, we need to find a playmaker somewhere. Fortunately we have some assets to help us do that, so I'm optimistic GMBM will figure something out.

Regarding Perry, this isn't about spending 5+ years somewhere and becoming entrenched in a community. It's possibly his final two seasons in the league, and with his career winding down I would expect that he would want to go just about anywhere that he would get a legit chance to play a top-6 role on a team that isn't in full rebuild re-tool mode. 

And that is closer to winning the cup, too. That I get. I don't see how that would be Montreal or Columbus. I also don't know what team that WOULD be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Jasoaks said:

And that is closer to winning the cup, too. That I get. I don't see how that would be Montreal or Columbus. I also don't know what team that WOULD be.

Don't sell Montreal short, they have some very good young centers in Drouin, Max Domi, Danault and Kotkaniemi (all former 1st rounders, two of them former #3 overall picks). And after Gallagher, their current RW depth is Andrew Shaw, Joel Armia and Dale Weise. Perry is already behind Kase and Silf on the Ducks depth chart heading into training camp next season, and may drop even further if Sprong keeps working on his all-around game and if Terry shows he's not going to get pushed around at the NHL level (like he did against LA).

So if Perry's option next season is either a 4th line RW spot on the Ducks or a 2nd line RW spot in Montreal, he wouldn't consider that?

Edited by dtsdlaw

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, perry_mvp said:

I think his skating has been much better after his surgery but even if he did waive his NMC the Ducks would probably still have to retain salary. I don't see him agreeing to Columbus. Maybe if BM can work out a trade with Toronto to get Kapanen in exchange for Perry and ??? because I think that's probably the only place Perry would agree to go to.

Kapanen is a RW. Like DLaw said we are already stacked on the RW position, hence the release of Perry. If we got Perry to waive and go there it would have to be for another positional player. But I don’t see Tor biting on any proposal that includes an aging, declining player who is also expensive even after we retain a large amount of salary (prob more than 50%). I think if we were to divest ourselves of Perrys contact it might be via the seattle draft by doing a similar pacakage of Stoner combo with Theo type deal to Vegas. But I don’t think Perry is hip to the west coast if he were to move let alone to a start-up team. Bottom line is that I think we should keep and use the high draft picks this summer to get a high end center. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Perry is already a cup winner. He makes 8 million and lives in SoCal, why would he ever want to go to either of those places. MAYBE he would waive it for like one ot two places. Toronto and Tampa come to mind. Otherwise why would he even want to leave?

Besides that, who even wants him at this stage? We would have to retain half his cap hit and salary AND add in picks/ prospects so they would even take him. He's not getting any younger or faster. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

I think we're going to be more than fine at the wing positions, even if no additions to the current roster, but we could definitely use another creative playmaker in the middle to be the set-up man. Whether that player comes through the draft, from moving Terry into the middle, from a young guy like Steel or Lundestrom stepping up, or via trade, that seems to be the one of the two main areas that we need an immediate upgrade this summer (the other being a right-shot D-man). It was painfully obvious when Getz was recently on the shelf that we NEED that guy on this team more than another winger. My choice would be to chase Alex Wennberg, who had 46 assists (Getzlafian numbers!) as a 22-year-old in Columbus before Torts decided to crush his confidence. Given what's gone on there between Torts and Wennberg, you'd expect that Columbus is going to trade him this summer (if Torts and Jarmo are still employed), probably in an effort to get back into the 1st round of the draft. But even if we aren't in on Wennberg, we need to find a playmaker somewhere. Fortunately we have some assets to help us do that, so I'm optimistic GMBM will figure something out.

Regarding Perry, this isn't about spending 5+ years somewhere and becoming entrenched in a community. It's possibly his final two seasons in the league, and with his career winding down I would expect that he would want to go just about anywhere that he would get a legit chance to play a top-6 role on a team that isn't in full rebuild re-tool mode. 

Agree with the need at center. Steel isn’t yet ready for it and we really need one. I don’t see the Ducks shifting Terry their because that would be a big transition for him to make at this point. Assuming you could get Perry to waive his NMC, what would you be willing to give up as a sweetener for a team to take on his contract, aside from salary retention? That late first round pick? A prospect?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, RobD360 said:

Kapanen is a RW. Like DLaw said we are already stacked on the RW position, hence the release of Perry. If we got Perry to waive and go there it would have to be for another positional player. But I don’t see Tor biting on any proposal that includes an aging, declining player who is also expensive even after we retain a large amount of salary (prob more than 50%). I think if we were to divest ourselves of Perrys contact it might be via the seattle draft by doing a similar pacakage of Stoner combo with Theo type deal to Vegas. But I don’t think Perry is hip to the west coast if he were to move let alone to a start-up team. Bottom line is that I think we should keep and use the high draft picks this summer to get a high end center. 

I'm pretty sure his contract ends before the entry draft. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, g20topdogg said:

I'm pretty sure his contract ends before the entry draft. 

Yeah I was thinking about that after I pushed the send button. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, RobD360 said:

Kapanen is a RW. Like DLaw said we are already stacked on the RW position, hence the release of Perry. If we got Perry to waive and go there it would have to be for another positional player. But I don’t see Tor biting on any proposal that includes an aging, declining player who is also expensive even after we retain a large amount of salary (prob more than 50%). I think if we were to divest ourselves of Perrys contact it might be via the seattle draft by doing a similar pacakage of Stoner combo with Theo type deal to Vegas. But I don’t think Perry is hip to the west coast if he were to move let alone to a start-up team. Bottom line is that I think we should keep and use the high draft picks this summer to get a high end center. 

Perry's contract expires in 2021 so no need to do that.

Just now, BombaysTripleDeke said:

Agree with the need at center. Steel isn’t yet ready for it and we really need one. I don’t see the Ducks shifting Terry their because that would be a big transition for him to make at this point. Assuming you could get Perry to waive his NMC, what would you be willing to give up as a sweetener for a team to take on his contract, aside from salary retention? That late first round pick? A prospect?

In terms of biting on him, we'll probably need to send either our late 1st rounder or the early 2nd to make his salary palatable, and probably take a little salary back in the form of a depth player or retained salary. Although, if we make that Wennberg trade I mentioned above, Wennberg carries a $4.9M cap hit so we'd actually be getting the player we need with a built-in salary offset. 

Regardless, there will definitely be teams that are interested in him, especially young teams that need some veteran scoring, sandpaper, and playoff experience, so there's a deal out there if all the stars can align.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...