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4 hours ago, Fisix said:

it's been a looooong time since scotty was training cam.  i'm talking about all those years he was paired with Bieksa and others, where he had to be the adult on the d line.

Trade for for a rookie SAH RD.

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6 hours ago, DuckFan4Life said:

Cam had the best training and handling compared to any D on the Ducks. He lived with and trained with Scott Niedermayer his first few years so I don't get the repressed comment. Just as with Kariya, the Ducks have spent every year trying to find the perfect partner for Cam. Unfortunately, there isn't a Teemu D out there. Many thought he would be the next Scotty. He had his most points his rookie season and statistically, his points have been pretty much the same over the years. I would like to see another defenseman on the PP until Cam breaks the habit of skating the puck all the way back while the seconds tick away. 

Lol from the bargain bin! Yeah BM has been trying really really hard to land the most incompetent bargain bin player possible. In fact he usually shoves the rest if the items aside trying to look at the bottom of the barrel...

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4 hours ago, g20topdogg said:

Lol from the bargain bin! Yeah BM has been trying really really hard to land the most incompetent bargain bin player possible. In fact he usually shoves the rest if the items aside trying to look at the bottom of the barrel...

Well in BM's defense I thought he had found a pretty good partner for Fowler in Despres. Too bad he couldn't stay healthy.
Thinking about it, injurywise, I don't think there's a team out there over the last 3-4 years who has had more bad luck (if that's what it is) than us.

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1 hour ago, DucksFan_08 said:

Well in BM's defense I thought he had found a pretty good partner for Fowler in Despres. Too bad he couldn't stay healthy.
Thinking about it, injurywise, I don't think there's a team out there over the last 3-4 years who has had more bad luck (if that's what it is) than us.

Despres -> Whoever -> Gudbranson is the never-ending revolving door like the limping line of Getz-Perry had for their LW. Story of this team. Was never fixed, too.

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22 hours ago, DuckFan4Life said:

Cam had the best training and handling compared to any D on the Ducks. He lived with and trained with Scott Niedermayer his first few years so I don't get the repressed comment. Just as with Kariya, the Ducks have spent every year trying to find the perfect partner for Cam. Unfortunately, there isn't a Teemu D out there. Many thought he would be the next Scotty. He had his most points his rookie season and statistically, his points have been pretty much the same over the years. I would like to see another defenseman on the PP until Cam breaks the habit of skating the puck all the way back while the seconds tick away. 

While living with Niedermayer he was working with Carlyle who was basically teaching him that the best defensive option is to put the puck off the glass every time.

I don't know that Cam has been 'repressed' but maybe we haven't utilised his skill set correctly. His strengths are really his skating with and without the puck and his breakout pass. We know he's not a physical guy, but I really don't think he has a very good hockey vision either. He's not the guy that should be quarterbacking the PP. I guess he is now because he's the best out of a number of poor options, but that's only because Murray has traded away Montour, Vats and Theodore. I honestly think if we had Theodore running our PP that we would be closer to league average.

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36 minutes ago, nieder said:

While living with Niedermayer he was working with Carlyle who was basically teaching him that the best defensive option is to put the puck off the glass every time.

I don't know that Cam has been 'repressed' but maybe we haven't utilised his skill set correctly. His strengths are really his skating with and without the puck and his breakout pass. We know he's not a physical guy, but I really don't think he has a very good hockey vision either. He's not the guy that should be quarterbacking the PP. I guess he is now because he's the best out of a number of poor options, but that's only because Murray has traded away Montour, Vats and Theodore. I honestly think if we had Theodore running our PP that we would be closer to league average.

Vats, I'm not so sure.  He'd probably be better than DelZ, but...  Monty had issues with RC, so maybe he could be rolling now under Eakins.  Theo... Theo would probably be great.

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2 hours ago, Fisix said:

Vats, I'm not so sure.  He'd probably be better than DelZ, but...  Monty had issues with RC, so maybe he could be rolling now under Eakins.  Theo... Theo would probably be great.

We had the #1 PP in the league in 2015-16 when Vats was manning the point on the top PP unit. 

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11 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

We had the #1 PP in the league in 2015-16 when Vats was manning the point on the top PP unit. 

Yeah but look at his more recent stats...

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50 minutes ago, Fisix said:

Yeah but look at his more recent stats...

4G/4A in 15 games so far this season, with 1G/2A coming on the PP. 

His shot clearly wasn’t the same after he tore the labrum in his right shoulder during the 2017 playoffs, but it looks to me like he’s finally got it back. I would love to have him back on our PP.

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9 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

4G/4A in 15 games so far this season, with 1G/2A coming on the PP. 

His shot clearly wasn’t the same after he tore the labrum in his right shoulder during the 2017 playoffs, but it looks to me like he’s finally got it back. I would love to have him back on our PP.

Put the Vatman signal up in the air.

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Another Kase injury incoming?
I've said it before and I'll say it again. He should have been moved. If he's not completely ruined I hope BM still pulls the trigger. Get whatever you can for him or he's the next Despres/Eaves.

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7 hours ago, Fisix said:

what is SAH RD?

Stay-At-Home right-handed defenseman.

30 minutes ago, DucksFan_08 said:

Another Kase injury incoming?
I've said it before and I'll say it again. He should have been moved. If he's not completely ruined I hope BM still pulls the trigger. Get whatever you can for him or he's the next Despres/Eaves.

The league is well aware, so we won't get any significant pieces back, if the history you mentioned is taken into account, GM's must be allergic to trading with Bob because he's such a magnet for injury-prone players.

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6 hours ago, Aksun said:

Stay-At-Home right-handed defenseman.

The league is well aware, so we won't get any significant pieces back, if the history you mentioned is taken into account, GM's must be allergic to trading with Bob because he's such a magnet for injury-prone players.

Murray did try to make a bad trade and move Kase for Faulk though lol. If that’s the best deal he could get, it makes even more sense holding onto Kase and hoping he increases his value.

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3 minutes ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

Murray did try to make a bad trade and move Kase for Faulk though lol. If that’s the best deal he could get, it makes even more sense holding onto Kase and hoping he increases his value.

At this point most of us have lost hope for Kase with the amount of head abuse he took. It may too late to salvage his value.

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4 hours ago, Aksun said:

At this point most of us have lost hope for Kase with the amount of head abuse he took. It may too late to salvage his value.

it's how he skates/holds his body.  he bends over and leads with his head... and the NHL is a bit too rough for that.

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14 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

4G/4A in 15 games so far this season, with 1G/2A coming on the PP. 

His shot clearly wasn’t the same after he tore the labrum in his right shoulder during the 2017 playoffs, but it looks to me like he’s finally got it back. I would love to have him back on our PP.

well, look at his numbers for every season before this short 15 game stint.  he's shooting... 6 times over his season stats when we traded him, and maybe 5 times over his stats from last year, and he's had fairly significant injury problems over the past 2 seasons.  

his 2019-2020 numbers are stellar, but we're talking about only the 15 games starting this season.  if he keeps his shot % for the remainder of the season, he's worth the cap hit.  otherwise... i'd still rather have Theo, and maybe Montour, over Vats.

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1 hour ago, Fisix said:

well, look at his numbers for every season before this short 15 game stint.  he's shooting... 6 times over his season stats when we traded him, and maybe 5 times over his stats from last year, and he's had fairly significant injury problems over the past 2 seasons.  

his 2019-2020 numbers are stellar, but we're talking about only the 15 games starting this season.  if he keeps his shot % for the remainder of the season, he's worth the cap hit.  otherwise... i'd still rather have Theo, and maybe Montour, over Vats.

We're not. I'm talking about his body of work. If this 15 game stretch to start the season was the only worthwhile stats he had posted over his career, you would be free to dismiss them. But he's got a history of being very effective on the PP, and only posted poor numbers over a short spans of his career when coming off a significant injury. This 15 game stretch shows me a return to form after recovering from injuries, not an aberration that isn't likely to be repeated.

Also, he's really only had one really bad season statistically (not counting Carlyle's concerted efforts to ruin his game), which was 2018-19 when he was limited to 50 games due to concussion issues stemming from this hit:

.... which was his second concussion in 10 months after taking this hit from Kucherov during the 2018 playoffs:

Hard to say that he's really injury-prone when looking at the nature of those hits. And even the season when he was traded to the Devils, he still posted 4G/28A. His 32 points were even with the point totals posted by Monty (9G/23A) and Fowler (8G/24A) that season. 

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2 hours ago, Fisix said:

well, look at his numbers for every season before this short 15 game stint.  he's shooting... 6 times over his season stats when we traded him, and maybe 5 times over his stats from last year, and he's had fairly significant injury problems over the past 2 seasons.  

his 2019-2020 numbers are stellar, but we're talking about only the 15 games starting this season.  if he keeps his shot % for the remainder of the season, he's worth the cap hit.  otherwise... i'd still rather have Theo, and maybe Montour, over Vats.

Yeah but we're also talking about the devils during a rebuild. Plus besides points vatanen is a very good shot blocker and overall good defensively. I think he would improve our top four imo.

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Vatanen is a very good defenseman.  Henrique is also a very good center.  I think it was an even trade, and at the time the Ducks had a lot of injured forwards and needed help there.  
 

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1 hour ago, g20topdogg said:

Yeah but we're also talking about the devils during a rebuild. Plus besides points vatanen is a very good shot blocker and overall good defensively. I think he would improve our top four imo.

He's a pending UFA this season. Maybe he'll come home to Anaheim. His game would really suit the up-tempo style the Ducks are trying to implement.

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i think we're just circling around the same sewage drain.

we have a lot of talent on the team already.  1/3rd of it, on D, is injured, so yeah, a decent player will make the team better than they are right now... but it's not going to address the issues we have on PP, PK... and on a lot of other stuff.  no single player is going to fix that, and maybe there's no real combination of players that could.  plus, we're not going to be purchasing anyone we want to keep long term right before the ED.

so, nuts to that.

Quote

This 15 game stretch shows me a return to form after recovering from injuries, not an aberration that isn't likely to be repeated.

maybe you mean to say that this 15 game stretch (which, incidentally, has ended with Vats on IR), which is clearly an aberration, still seems to indicate a return to form?  cause, the stat we're talking about, Shot %, is 5-6 TIMES what is has been for him for the past three full seasons, and TWICE his best season ever.  that's... a statistical aberration.  given where his team is right now, it seems more aberrant than even that metric indicates.

we have the pieces we need, we just need them healthy, and we need some training to happen, and it seems like we need some better coaching choices in the heat of the game (if it's being done on purpose, then maybe we ARE tanking for a high pick?).

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3 hours ago, Fisix said:

i think we're just circling around the same sewage drain.

we have a lot of talent on the team already.  1/3rd of it, on D, is injured, so yeah, a decent player will make the team better than they are right now... but it's not going to address the issues we have on PP, PK... and on a lot of other stuff.  no single player is going to fix that, and maybe there's no real combination of players that could.  plus, we're not going to be purchasing anyone we want to keep long term right before the ED.

so, nuts to that.

maybe you mean to say that this 15 game stretch (which, incidentally, has ended with Vats on IR), which is clearly an aberration, still seems to indicate a return to form?  cause, the stat we're talking about, Shot %, is 5-6 TIMES what is has been for him for the past three full seasons, and TWICE his best season ever.  that's... a statistical aberration.  given where his team is right now, it seems more aberrant than even that metric indicates.

we have the pieces we need, we just need them healthy, and we need some training to happen, and it seems like we need some better coaching choices in the heat of the game (if it's being done on purpose, then maybe we ARE tanking for a high pick?).

I find it hard to believe we're tanking this early in the season on purpose. Our systems are a mess. I'm fine with DE since this is his first year with a new system. The pp is the issue. But at full strength we see flashes of what we can be, and that makes me excited. 

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12 hours ago, Fisix said:

i think we're just circling around the same sewage drain.

we have a lot of talent on the team already.  1/3rd of it, on D, is injured, so yeah, a decent player will make the team better than they are right now... but it's not going to address the issues we have on PP, PK... and on a lot of other stuff.  no single player is going to fix that, and maybe there's no real combination of players that could.  plus, we're not going to be purchasing anyone we want to keep long term right before the ED.

so, nuts to that.

maybe you mean to say that this 15 game stretch (which, incidentally, has ended with Vats on IR), which is clearly an aberration, still seems to indicate a return to form?  cause, the stat we're talking about, Shot %, is 5-6 TIMES what is has been for him for the past three full seasons, and TWICE his best season ever.  that's... a statistical aberration.  given where his team is right now, it seems more aberrant than even that metric indicates.

we have the pieces we need, we just need them healthy, and we need some training to happen, and it seems like we need some better coaching choices in the heat of the game (if it's being done on purpose, then maybe we ARE tanking for a high pick?).

You’re missing the point with this. Vatanen’s shoulder injury (which according to GMBM at the time was really bad) clearly took the zip off his fastball (I think we’re seeing the same with Kase, which is why his shots aren’t going in). So between his shoulder injury and RC crushing his love for the game, he struggled a bit. We all saw it. However, moving to the Devils (i.e. away from RC) restored his creativity, as evidenced by his 25 assists in his first 57 games there. He still didn’t have the zip on his shot for a while though. He clearly has it back now. His shooting percentage is ridiculously high right now, but to me that just shows he finally has the zip on his fastball again. It proves my point about his return to health/form. He doesn’t get that shot % if his shoulder isn’t back to 100%. And a Sami Vatanen with healthy shoulders can score a dozen goals.

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10 hours ago, HockeyIzCool said:

On Saturday's pregame radio show they said Kase was a Healthy Scratch.

heard that too, on the tv pregame.  they (Kent, Hazy, Ahlers) indicated that the scratch was about sending a message, based on Kase's goals and points so far this year.

it seems a bit out of place with how the rest of the players are being run, but i sort of want to go with the broadcast crew when they make pretty clear statements like that.  the alternative is fairly Machiavellian - that they're actively obfuscating a Kase injury for some reason.

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14 minutes ago, Fisix said:

heard that too, on the tv pregame.  they (Kent, Hazy, Ahlers) indicated that the scratch was about sending a message, based on Kase's goals and points so far this year.

it seems a bit out of place with how the rest of the players are being run, but i sort of want to go with the broadcast crew when they make pretty clear statements like that.  the alternative is fairly Machiavellian - that they're actively obfuscating a Kase injury for some reason.

If true, that's a weird message considering his possession numbers relative to the rest of the team and the fact that he is out-scoring all other RWs not named Jakob Silfverberg.

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12 hours ago, HockeyIzCool said:

On Saturday's pregame radio show they said Kase was a Healthy Scratch.

Friend of mine said maybe he was held out since St. Louis plays a more heavy game.  Sounded reasonable.

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