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3 minutes ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

Murray did try to make a bad trade and move Kase for Faulk though lol. If that’s the best deal he could get, it makes even more sense holding onto Kase and hoping he increases his value.

At this point most of us have lost hope for Kase with the amount of head abuse he took. It may too late to salvage his value.

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1 hour ago, Fisix said:

well, look at his numbers for every season before this short 15 game stint.  he's shooting... 6 times over his season stats when we traded him, and maybe 5 times over his stats from last year, and he's had fairly significant injury problems over the past 2 seasons.  

his 2019-2020 numbers are stellar, but we're talking about only the 15 games starting this season.  if he keeps his shot % for the remainder of the season, he's worth the cap hit.  otherwise... i'd still rather have Theo, and maybe Montour, over Vats.

We're not. I'm talking about his body of work. If this 15 game stretch to start the season was the only worthwhile stats he had posted over his career, you would be free to dismiss them. But he's got a history of being very effective on the PP, and only posted poor numbers over a short spans of his career when coming off a significant injury. This 15 game stretch shows me a return to form after recovering from injuries, not an aberration that isn't likely to be repeated.

Also, he's really only had one really bad season statistically (not counting Carlyle's concerted efforts to ruin his game), which was 2018-19 when he was limited to 50 games due to concussion issues stemming from this hit:

.... which was his second concussion in 10 months after taking this hit from Kucherov during the 2018 playoffs:

Hard to say that he's really injury-prone when looking at the nature of those hits. And even the season when he was traded to the Devils, he still posted 4G/28A. His 32 points were even with the point totals posted by Monty (9G/23A) and Fowler (8G/24A) that season. 

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2 hours ago, Fisix said:

well, look at his numbers for every season before this short 15 game stint.  he's shooting... 6 times over his season stats when we traded him, and maybe 5 times over his stats from last year, and he's had fairly significant injury problems over the past 2 seasons.  

his 2019-2020 numbers are stellar, but we're talking about only the 15 games starting this season.  if he keeps his shot % for the remainder of the season, he's worth the cap hit.  otherwise... i'd still rather have Theo, and maybe Montour, over Vats.

Yeah but we're also talking about the devils during a rebuild. Plus besides points vatanen is a very good shot blocker and overall good defensively. I think he would improve our top four imo.

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Vatanen is a very good defenseman.  Henrique is also a very good center.  I think it was an even trade, and at the time the Ducks had a lot of injured forwards and needed help there.  
 

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1 hour ago, g20topdogg said:

Yeah but we're also talking about the devils during a rebuild. Plus besides points vatanen is a very good shot blocker and overall good defensively. I think he would improve our top four imo.

He's a pending UFA this season. Maybe he'll come home to Anaheim. His game would really suit the up-tempo style the Ducks are trying to implement.

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3 hours ago, Fisix said:

i think we're just circling around the same sewage drain.

we have a lot of talent on the team already.  1/3rd of it, on D, is injured, so yeah, a decent player will make the team better than they are right now... but it's not going to address the issues we have on PP, PK... and on a lot of other stuff.  no single player is going to fix that, and maybe there's no real combination of players that could.  plus, we're not going to be purchasing anyone we want to keep long term right before the ED.

so, nuts to that.

maybe you mean to say that this 15 game stretch (which, incidentally, has ended with Vats on IR), which is clearly an aberration, still seems to indicate a return to form?  cause, the stat we're talking about, Shot %, is 5-6 TIMES what is has been for him for the past three full seasons, and TWICE his best season ever.  that's... a statistical aberration.  given where his team is right now, it seems more aberrant than even that metric indicates.

we have the pieces we need, we just need them healthy, and we need some training to happen, and it seems like we need some better coaching choices in the heat of the game (if it's being done on purpose, then maybe we ARE tanking for a high pick?).

I find it hard to believe we're tanking this early in the season on purpose. Our systems are a mess. I'm fine with DE since this is his first year with a new system. The pp is the issue. But at full strength we see flashes of what we can be, and that makes me excited. 

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12 hours ago, Fisix said:

i think we're just circling around the same sewage drain.

we have a lot of talent on the team already.  1/3rd of it, on D, is injured, so yeah, a decent player will make the team better than they are right now... but it's not going to address the issues we have on PP, PK... and on a lot of other stuff.  no single player is going to fix that, and maybe there's no real combination of players that could.  plus, we're not going to be purchasing anyone we want to keep long term right before the ED.

so, nuts to that.

maybe you mean to say that this 15 game stretch (which, incidentally, has ended with Vats on IR), which is clearly an aberration, still seems to indicate a return to form?  cause, the stat we're talking about, Shot %, is 5-6 TIMES what is has been for him for the past three full seasons, and TWICE his best season ever.  that's... a statistical aberration.  given where his team is right now, it seems more aberrant than even that metric indicates.

we have the pieces we need, we just need them healthy, and we need some training to happen, and it seems like we need some better coaching choices in the heat of the game (if it's being done on purpose, then maybe we ARE tanking for a high pick?).

You’re missing the point with this. Vatanen’s shoulder injury (which according to GMBM at the time was really bad) clearly took the zip off his fastball (I think we’re seeing the same with Kase, which is why his shots aren’t going in). So between his shoulder injury and RC crushing his love for the game, he struggled a bit. We all saw it. However, moving to the Devils (i.e. away from RC) restored his creativity, as evidenced by his 25 assists in his first 57 games there. He still didn’t have the zip on his shot for a while though. He clearly has it back now. His shooting percentage is ridiculously high right now, but to me that just shows he finally has the zip on his fastball again. It proves my point about his return to health/form. He doesn’t get that shot % if his shoulder isn’t back to 100%. And a Sami Vatanen with healthy shoulders can score a dozen goals.

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14 minutes ago, Fisix said:

heard that too, on the tv pregame.  they (Kent, Hazy, Ahlers) indicated that the scratch was about sending a message, based on Kase's goals and points so far this year.

it seems a bit out of place with how the rest of the players are being run, but i sort of want to go with the broadcast crew when they make pretty clear statements like that.  the alternative is fairly Machiavellian - that they're actively obfuscating a Kase injury for some reason.

If true, that's a weird message considering his possession numbers relative to the rest of the team and the fact that he is out-scoring all other RWs not named Jakob Silfverberg.

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12 hours ago, HockeyIzCool said:

On Saturday's pregame radio show they said Kase was a Healthy Scratch.

Friend of mine said maybe he was held out since St. Louis plays a more heavy game.  Sounded reasonable.

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42 minutes ago, dukitup said:

Friend of mine said maybe he was held out since St. Louis plays a more heavy game.  Sounded reasonable.

So out against St Louis, but back in tonight against Tom Wilson and Radko Gudas?  I fear for Kase's noggin tonight way more than I would have against St Louis.

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4 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

If true, that's a weird message considering his possession numbers relative to the rest of the team and the fact that he is out-scoring all other RWs not named Jakob Silfverberg.

Kase has 1 goal. He's being relied on to score goals and he's not scoring. I have no problem with healthy scratching him.

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50 minutes ago, Fisix said:

well, and RR (14 points), and he's only one point above Rowney (Kase has 3 fewer goals).

IIRC, the Blues game was the first time all season RR has played RW instead of LW, and HCDE even admitted moving him over to RW was initially plan B in that game. That game started with 49-15-37, 67-14-33 before HCDE quickly switched it up a few shifts into the game when he didn't like the looks of that Getzlaf line. https://www.ocregister.com/2019/11/17/captain-ryan-getzlaf-reminds-ducks-to-get-pucks-deep-and-they-respond/

With Rowney, he's also played 6 more games than Kase and his fancy stats are atrocious compared to Kase's. I get that Kase is in there to score, but the fact that his shots aren't going in isn't a reason to scratch him by itself. He's still driving possession like a boss and he's 3rd on the team in shots/game. Unless he's dinged, you gotta keep him in there shooting as much as possible until he can get the ketchup flowing. 

 

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42 minutes ago, nieder said:

Kase has 1 goal. He's being relied on to score goals and he's not scoring. I have no problem with healthy scratching him.

Got no argument from me here...anything to light a Fire under him is needed.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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15 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

With Rowney, he's also played 6 more games than Kase and his fancy stats are atrocious compared to Kase's. I get that Kase is in there to score, but the fact that his shots aren't going in isn't a reason to scratch him by itself. He's still driving possession like a boss and he's 3rd on the team in shots/game. Unless he's dinged, you gotta keep him in there shooting as much as possible until he can get the ketchup flowing. 

 

Quick question as I'm still learning about fancy stats. Do they take situational ice time into account? Rowney plays a lot of time on the PK so I would expect that the guys getting a lot of PK minutes wouldn't have great possession numbers. The 4th line also tends to do more dumping and chasing I suspect, which would also affect possession numbers, right? So it's tough to compare that with someone that doesn't play on the PK and plays on a line expected to score and hang onto the puck more.

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1 hour ago, dtsdlaw said:

IIRC, the Blues game was the first time all season RR has played RW instead of LW, and HCDE even admitted moving him over to RW was initially plan B in that game. That game started with 49-15-37, 67-14-33 before HCDE quickly switched it up a few shifts into the game when he didn't like the looks of that Getzlaf line. https://www.ocregister.com/2019/11/17/captain-ryan-getzlaf-reminds-ducks-to-get-pucks-deep-and-they-respond/

With Rowney, he's also played 6 more games than Kase and his fancy stats are atrocious compared to Kase's. I get that Kase is in there to score, but the fact that his shots aren't going in isn't a reason to scratch him by itself. He's still driving possession like a boss and he's 3rd on the team in shots/game. Unless he's dinged, you gotta keep him in there shooting as much as possible until he can get the ketchup flowing. 

 

And if you're scratching Kase for not scoring, you'd better be scratching Steel (who's put up HALF as many shots as Kase in two more games) for not scoring.  Benching Kase for not finishing makes no sense.

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1 hour ago, nieder said:

Quick question as I'm still learning about fancy stats. Do they take situational ice time into account? Rowney plays a lot of time on the PK so I would expect that the guys getting a lot of PK minutes wouldn't have great possession numbers. The 4th line also tends to do more dumping and chasing I suspect, which would also affect possession numbers, right? So it's tough to compare that with someone that doesn't play on the PK and plays on a line expected to score and hang onto the puck more.

What Fisix said. Most basic fancy stats focus on 5v5 for comparison among various players. Kase has been getting a higher percentage of offensive zone starts lately, which may impact his numbers a little, but he's been consistently good at driving possession for the last 2+ seasons. It's why fans of every other team want to trade for him.

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17 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

What Fisix said. Most basic fancy stats focus on 5v5 for comparison among various players. Kase has been getting a higher percentage of offensive zone starts lately, which may impact his numbers a little, but he's been consistently good at driving possession for the last 2+ seasons. It's why fans of every other team want to trade for him.

OK I kinda figured they would split it into 5v5 and then PP and PK. I haven't looked at any of the actual numbers in a while because they were confusing!  I need to go back and read up on this. I need a 'Fancy Stats for Dummies' book or something.

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22 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

What Fisix said. Most basic fancy stats focus on 5v5 for comparison among various players. Kase has been getting a higher percentage of offensive zone starts lately, which may impact his numbers a little, but he's been consistently good at driving possession for the last 2+ seasons. It's why fans of every other team want to trade for him.

Which makes him our Ducks best Trade Bait.....I am just wondering what it will take to get our Ducks to Trade Kase for BPA.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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45 minutes ago, DucksFan_08 said:

Do we have a timetable on Lindholm? Blowing 2-0 leads is one thing. Blowing a 4-0 lead is pretty embarrassing. I miss our top 2 D men.

As far as I know - no, they've been very quiet on Lindholm other than it's an LBI. Manson was given a timeframe almost right away and we expect him early January, but Lindholm has a nagging one and is more of a mystery.

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5 hours ago, Aksun said:

As far as I know - no, they've been very quiet on Lindholm other than it's an LBI. Manson was given a timeframe almost right away and we expect him early January, but Lindholm has a nagging one and is more of a mystery.

Participated in practice today and stayed for skating afterwards. Looks like he may give it a go tomorrow. 

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Eakins didn't have an official update on Nick Ritchie but said "it does not look very good" with regard to the winger's lower-body injury. Knee was mentioned a couple times with regard to Gudas hit.

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48 minutes ago, DuckFan4Life said:

Eakins didn't have an official update on Nick Ritchie but said "it does not look very good" with regard to the winger's lower-body injury. Knee was mentioned a couple times with regard to Gudas hit.

If ever the "player safety" committee should get involved it's now.  But I'm sure they won't.  That was a late hit.  It's how players get hurt.  I have long thought that players that injure other players, especially the ones who do it a lot should not be allowed to play until the injured player is back playing.  Seems right.

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Due to Ritchie's Injury it's been report Ducks have recalled Sam Carrick from SD and Assign Stolarz to the Gulls.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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