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Ice_Attack

Ducks have regressed since cup win

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I held season seats from 1993-2010.  Management has become a joke.  Team is a joke because Murray is horrible.   Players on this team don’t seem to give a crap.  They take your money and live large in sunny Ca the life of Riley not giving a rat’s behind because tomorrow (if it’s a home stand) is another day at the beach.  WAke up Ducks.  

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6 hours ago, Ice_Attack said:

I held season seats from 1993-2010.  Management has become a joke.  Team is a joke because Murray is horrible.   Players on this team don’t seem to give a crap.  They take your money and live large in sunny Ca the life of Riley not giving a rat’s behind because tomorrow (if it’s a home stand) is another day at the beach.  WAke up Ducks.  

While 2011 (at least I think it was 2011) and last year among others were huge disappointments I think we've been fairly competitive since our Cup win. Some tough losses against later winners (detroit, la, chicago) is nothing to be ashamed of. Especially the one against detroit still hurts. We gave chicago and nashville a good run for their money in 2015 & 2016. Too bad we ran into one injury too many against nashville because I really think we could have beaten them that year.

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1 hour ago, DucksFan_08 said:

While 2011 (at least I think it was 2011) and last year among others were huge disappointments I think we've been fairly competitive since our Cup win. Some tough losses against later winners (detroit, la, chicago) is nothing to be ashamed of. Especially the one against detroit still hurts. We gave chicago and nashville a good run for their money in 2015 & 2016. Too bad we ran into one injury too many against nashville because I really think we could have beaten them that year.

The Chicago year was the one.

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8 hours ago, Ice_Attack said:

I held season seats from 1993-2010.  Management has become a joke.  Team is a joke because Murray is horrible.   Players on this team don’t seem to give a crap.  They take your money and live large in sunny Ca the life of Riley not giving a rat’s behind because tomorrow (if it’s a home stand) is another day at the beach.  WAke up Ducks.  

I would have to disagree with your outlook on the Ducks. Team is no Joke nor is the Players.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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Agree that Ducks have regressed under BM watch. Over long 12 years the only significant FA acquisition was 31 y/o Kesler with bad knees. While Brian Burke was going after best players available, BM prefers to joggle 4th liners during free agency and sign some average players to huge contract extensions (you guys know who do I mean).

If BM was in charge in 2005, 2006, would he go after Sean Pronger, Scott Niedermayer, Teemy Selanne? I highly doubt; 

Players are no joke, they play to the best of their ability, but lack of high draft picks along with bad or insignificant free agency acquisitions finally resulted in gradually turning this franchise from Stanley Cap contender to below-average team playing in half-empty arena. Hiring questionable people for last 2 head coaching positions did not help either.

Ownership: this is the different story. We don't see any interviews with Samuelis regarding team status, no statements, no comments, nothing. Except ceremonial puck drops on some rare occasions, nobody sees them at Honda Center anymore. Seems like they lost interest in this team or being brainwashed from year to year by team CEO "Next season we will be much better".

Edited by FanSince1993
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14 minutes ago, FanSince1993 said:

Agree that Ducks have regressed under BM watch. Over long 12 years the only significant FA acquisition was 31 y/o Kesler with bad knees. While Brian Burke was going after best players available, BM prefers to joggle 4th liners during free agency and sign some average players to huge contract extensions (you guys know who do I mean).

If BM was in charge in 2005, 2006, would he go after Sean Pronger, Scott Niedermayer, Teemy Selanne? I highly doubt; 

Players are no joke, they play to the best of their ability, but lack of high draft picks along with bad or insignificant free agency acquisitions finally resulted in gradually turning this franchise from Stanley Cap contender to below-average team playing in half-empty arena. Hiring questionable people for last 2 head coaching positions did not help either.

Ownership: this is the different story. We don't see any interviews with Samuelis regarding team status, no statements, no comments, nothing. Except ceremonial puck drops on some rare occasions, nobody sees them at Honda Center anymore. Seems like they lost interest in this team or being brainwashed from year to year by team CEO "Next season we will be much better".

Maybe this only reinforces your point, but Kesler wasn't a free agent.  We traded Bonino and Sbisa (and picks) for him.  

But speaking against your point, I think Murray has largely been handcuffed by circumstances here.  You mention "Sean" Pronger, who was a marginal NHL forward who played for the Ducks in the 90's.  I'm sure you mean CHRIS Pronger, and the Ducks traded for him.  That was very similar to the Kesler deal where a player wanted out of his situation and the Ducks took advantage of it.  Scott Niedermayer was only signed because his brother played here.  Teemu Selanne is a special case since he had deep ties to the organization already.  Burke signed a few more free agents, but those were, from memory, pretty bad signings that really wreaked havoc on the cap (Schneider, Bertuzzi).

I think there are two things going on here: one is that until very recently, the Ducks have not been a cap team.  We can blame the Samuelis for that, but the Ducks have never gone out and been huge players in the free agent market because ownership didn't allot the money to do it.  But I also think it's tough to get the top free agents here.  Yes, the weather is nice, but it's not a highly visible franchise and it's on the West Coast. California taxes might play a part for some guys, too.  If your'e one of the top guys (like a Niedermayer) and you're interested in being a star (not like a Niedermayer), you're going to want to go to more prominent location.  I don't think it's a deal-breaker for most guys, but I do think it means the Ducks' offer will need to be 10% greater to get those guys in the door.  I think Murray realized that early on and has looked to improve through trade (where he's been fairly successful) and on the margins through depth signings (where it's been a mixed bag except for his love of defensive pylons).

To be clear, I don't think Murray has been fantastic - I think he's been mostly good, but his time has run its course.  I would not be surprised that if the Ducks don't make the playoffs this season and then continue to struggle next season that he'd be gone sometime in early 2021.

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13 hours ago, Ice_Attack said:

I held season seats from 1993-2010.  Management has become a joke.  Team is a joke because Murray is horrible.   Players on this team don’t seem to give a crap.  They take your money and live large in sunny Ca the life of Riley not giving a rat’s behind because tomorrow (if it’s a home stand) is another day at the beach.  WAke up Ducks.  

They have been competitive until about two years ago and are now going through a rebuild which is part of the circle of life. Whether or not Murray is the guy who can bring them back to the Cup is another question. I don’t think that he is but he’s the guy that ownership is going with. 

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1 hour ago, gorbachav5 said:

Maybe this only reinforces your point, but Kesler wasn't a free agent.  We traded Bonino and Sbisa (and picks) for him.  

But speaking against your point, I think Murray has largely been handcuffed by circumstances here.  You mention "Sean" Pronger, who was a marginal NHL forward who played for the Ducks in the 90's.  I'm sure you mean CHRIS Pronger, and the Ducks traded for him.  That was very similar to the Kesler deal where a player wanted out of his situation and the Ducks took advantage of it.  Scott Niedermayer was only signed because his brother played here.  Teemu Selanne is a special case since he had deep ties to the organization already.  Burke signed a few more free agents, but those were, from memory, pretty bad signings that really wreaked havoc on the cap (Schneider, Bertuzzi).

I think there are two things going on here: one is that until very recently, the Ducks have not been a cap team.  We can blame the Samuelis for that, but the Ducks have never gone out and been huge players in the free agent market because ownership didn't allot the money to do it.  But I also think it's tough to get the top free agents here.  Yes, the weather is nice, but it's not a highly visible franchise and it's on the West Coast. California taxes might play a part for some guys, too.  If your'e one of the top guys (like a Niedermayer) and you're interested in being a star (not like a Niedermayer), you're going to want to go to more prominent location.  I don't think it's a deal-breaker for most guys, but I do think it means the Ducks' offer will need to be 10% greater to get those guys in the door.  I think Murray realized that early on and has looked to improve through trade (where he's been fairly successful) and on the margins through depth signings (where it's been a mixed bag except for his love of defensive pylons).

To be clear, I don't think Murray has been fantastic - I think he's been mostly good, but his time has run its course.  I would not be surprised that if the Ducks don't make the playoffs this season and then continue to struggle next season that he'd be gone sometime in early 2021.

I think Murray is here till at least after the Seattle draft...regardless of how the Ducks do. I have had no issue with BM for the most part. I'm not on the Eakins boat yet...but I understand the move just as I usually can understand his moves, even if I don't like them.

honestly, we've been a pretty successful team under him. sure, no cup, but i mean...from 2013-2017 we were very competitive...i mean, 06/07 we were obviously the champs, but 08 we kinda fell a bit...09 we were close...10 we didn't even make the playoffs...11 we had Dan Ellis and Ray Emery in net...soooo....Hiller's injury was incredibly unfortunate 😕 then down again in 12....and then lost to the cup champs in 7 in 2013, lost to the cup champs in 7 in 2014, lost to the cup champs in 7 in 2015, had a post season with a misuse of goalies in the first round to lose in 7 in 2016, and in 2017 had crazy injuries and a horrible back-up goalie to kill it for us.

Honestly out of all of that...2015 should have been our year for the 2nd cup...and 09 and 2017 we should have been able to make it to the finals (but i don't think we beat pittsburgh in either year)

Edited by Jasoaks
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7 minutes ago, Jasoaks said:

I think Murray is here till at least after the Seattle draft...regardless of how the Ducks do. I have had no issue with BM for the most part. I'm not on the Eakins boat yet...but I understand the move just as I usually can understand his moves, even if I don't like them.

honestly, we've been a pretty successful team under him. sure, no cup, but i mean...from 2013-2017 we were very competitive...i mean, 06/07 we were obviously the champs, but 08 we kinda fell a bit...09 we were close...10 we didn't even make the playoffs...11 we had Dan Ellis and Ray Emery in net...soooo....Hiller's injury was incredibly unfortunate 😕 then down again in 12....and then lost to the cup champs in 7 in 2013, lost to the cup champs in 7 in 2014, lost to the cup champs in 7 in 2015, had a post season with a misuse of goalies in the first round to lose in 7 in 2016, and in 2017 had crazy injuries and a horrible back-up goalie to kill it for us.

Honestly out of all of that...2015 should have been our year for the 2nd cup...and 09 and 2017 we should have been able to make it to the finals (but i don't think we beat pittsburgh in either year)

I agree with this and think it is very realistic, therefor fair to the parties.

one thing left out:  Yes, California’s taxes are a disincentive, but so is West Coast team travel schedules.  That will change more over time.  California taxes will only get worse.

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I have no issues with GMBM's lack of big splashes in free agency and I think he's been overall fine in adding players from outside the organization considering the constraints that have been placed on the purse strings by ownership. That said, what may prevent this team from rising back to the upper echelon is GMBM's lack of success at evaluating forward talent, especially at the center position. Aside from being gifted Getzlaf and making a great trade for a Selke winner in Kesler, I don't think he has shown much ability thus far to recognize and/or develop top-tier centers. The main reason this team is currently in a rebuild re-tool is because GMBM let the cupboards become painfully thin at the center position over the first 6-7 years of his tenure as GMBM while he was loading up on defensemen at the expense of solid forward prospects, so when Kesler finally broke down and Getzlaf started to show his age in their mid-30s, there was a huge void down the middle that could only be patched by trading away an important top-4 RHD (which is now our biggest roster hole). If the Ducks had decent center prospects coming up through the system already when Kesler broke, the past two seasons would have looked much different IMO and this team would already be way ahead of where they are right now in their re-tool. GMBM has tried to fix the lack of center depth in the first and second round over the last four years (after a feeble attempt to make Rakell a top-6 C and trading Wild Bill) and we hope at least a few of those guys work out (i.e. Nattinen, Steel, Morand, Lundestrom, Groulx, Zegras), but his shotgun approach with drafting centers has now thinned out the defense cupboards when he should have been developing depth there, to the point where it's hard to say our defense is going to be much of a strength 2-3 seasons from now when the forwards are (hopefully) ready to compete at a high level.

 

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there aren't many perfect teams.  or coaching staffs.  or general managers.

we're having a predictably hard time right now, and it's sort of a self-inflicted ebb due to our spending $$ and team resources on trying to get Getz and Corey to the Cup a second time before their NHL MTBF stat gets too high.  it's not an uncommon thing to happen - some teams manage to keep the recovery time short, others wallow for an extended period.  ours is going to take longer than one season, i think, but it's worth remembering that the whole evaluation of the situation is fairly unique, historically, because of these two new-rule EDs that will have happened so close together.  it's a perfect time to lay low and rebuild, frankly, so... don't expect major moves until after Seattle is drafted and playing.  

has anyone evaluated the VGK expansion results and identified winners in how that all played out, aside from VGK?  as in, has anyone identified a strategy other than "conservative" that worked well?  everyone seemed to say we did well by keeping who we kept, given the NMCs we had to deal with... but i'm not sure if a clearer picture has evolved where, for example, Boston did some crazy thing and it helped them end up where they are now.

we're clearly going the conservative route, at least so far.  least risky, to be sure.  it would be interesting for BM to switch it up for this next ED, but i don't know if there's a justifiable reason to do so.

in any event, pointing out that a team that: bought out one of their franchise players, has a brand new coach, is playing with 8? players 21 and under, and is clearly self-restrained prior to the ED, is less good than the same team's Cup winning roster a decade ago, isn't really news.  we do have some players that have developed long term bad habits, but my guess is that other teams have the same thing with some of their $2-6M/year players.  we're still working on stuff like that with our new coaching staff, so there's hope.

and, like the others have said, it's a bit unfair to treat the entire past decade+ as regression.  we've had a lot of success that just barely didn't convert into a cup win - some bad luck, some poor playoff coaching, some league/ref shenanigans.  the league emphasizing expansion team success over league success for these two recent EDs did us no favors.

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We've been Season Seat holders since Day 1, but this is probably our last year.  We used to be able to give away tickets to clients, but these days, nobody is interested in them.  When we try to sell on Ticket Exchange or Stubhub, we usually get 50% of what they cost.  It's really tough to motivate ourselves to deal with an hour of rush hour traffic, only to watch a lackluster performance, and the league's worst Power Play.

Parking costs $20, and the concession prices have become RIDICULOUS.  They even have $25 Burgers.  They're obviously trying to compensate for the loss in ticket sales revenue by gouging those who are still attending the games.  Between ticket price, parking & dinner, the price for 2 to watch a Ducks team that nobody expects to make the playoffs anytime soon, is over $200.  For $25, I can sit at home with a Pizza & 6 Pack of Beer and watch the game on Fox Sports West.

It's hard to end a 27 year run as SS holders, but we can still be fans, and get great seats for a handful of games per season.  There is little distinction between a SS holder fan, and a regular fan who sits in the cheap seats for a few games each year.

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1 hour ago, dtsdlaw said:

I have no issues with GMBM's lack of big splashes in free agency and I think he's been overall fine in adding players from outside the organization considering the constraints that have been placed on the purse strings by ownership. That said, what may prevent this team from rising back to the upper echelon is GMBM's lack of success at evaluating forward talent, especially at the center position. Aside from being gifted Getzlaf and making a great trade for a Selke winner in Kesler, I don't think he has shown much ability thus far to recognize and/or develop top-tier centers. The main reason this team is currently in a rebuild re-tool is because GMBM let the cupboards become painfully thin at the center position over the first 6-7 years of his tenure as GMBM while he was loading up on defensemen at the expense of solid forward prospects, so when Kesler finally broke down and Getzlaf started to show his age in their mid-30s, there was a huge void down the middle that could only be patched by trading away an important top-4 RHD (which is now our biggest roster hole). If the Ducks had decent center prospects coming up through the system already when Kesler broke, the past two seasons would have looked much different IMO and this team would already be way ahead of where they are right now in their re-tool. GMBM has tried to fix the lack of center depth in the first and second round over the last four years (after a feeble attempt to make Rakell a top-6 C and trading Wild Bill) and we hope at least a few of those guys work out (i.e. Nattinen, Steel, Morand, Lundestrom, Groulx, Zegras), but his shotgun approach with drafting centers has now thinned out the defense cupboards when he should have been developing depth there, to the point where it's hard to say our defense is going to be much of a strength 2-3 seasons from now when the forwards are (hopefully) ready to compete at a high level.

 

That is the thing about Bob Murray he seems to be hesitant in making the Big Splash on Free Agency and more focus on Developing within Ducks Rank-and-File. To me he will be remeber for his lack of Big Trades...cept for Kesler Deal.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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57 minutes ago, Fisix said:

there aren't many perfect teams.  or coaching staffs.  or general managers.

we're having a predictably hard time right now, and it's sort of a self-inflicted ebb due to our spending $$ and team resources on trying to get Getz and Corey to the Cup a second time before their NHL MTBF stat gets too high.  it's not an uncommon thing to happen - some teams manage to keep the recovery time short, others wallow for an extended period.  ours is going to take longer than one season, i think, but it's worth remembering that the whole evaluation of the situation is fairly unique, historically, because of these two new-rule EDs that will have happened so close together.  it's a perfect time to lay low and rebuild, frankly, so... don't expect major moves until after Seattle is drafted and playing.  

has anyone evaluated the VGK expansion results and identified winners in how that all played out, aside from VGK?  as in, has anyone identified a strategy other than "conservative" that worked well?  everyone seemed to say we did well by keeping who we kept, given the NMCs we had to deal with... but i'm not sure if a clearer picture has evolved where, for example, Boston did some crazy thing and it helped them end up where they are now.

we're clearly going the conservative route, at least so far.  least risky, to be sure.  it would be interesting for BM to switch it up for this next ED, but i don't know if there's a justifiable reason to do so.

in any event, pointing out that a team that: bought out one of their franchise players, has a brand new coach, is playing with 8? players 21 and under, and is clearly self-restrained prior to the ED, is less good than the same team's Cup winning roster a decade ago, isn't really news.  we do have some players that have developed long term bad habits, but my guess is that other teams have the same thing with some of their $2-6M/year players.  we're still working on stuff like that with our new coaching staff, so there's hope.

and, like the others have said, it's a bit unfair to treat the entire past decade+ as regression.  we've had a lot of success that just barely didn't convert into a cup win - some bad luck, some poor playoff coaching, some league/ref shenanigans.  the league emphasizing expansion team success over league success for these two recent EDs did us no favors.

this is an interesting perspective to have...i mean, if we look at Columbus and Florida for probably making the biggest mistakes in the ED...columbus is looking like crap and florida is looking pretty good....sooooo....Pittsburgh and us lost some good players, probably some of the best after columbus and florida...pittsburgh is "struggling," too....and they have crosby/malkin.

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1 hour ago, dtsdlaw said:

I have no issues with GMBM's lack of big splashes in free agency and I think he's been overall fine in adding players from outside the organization considering the constraints that have been placed on the purse strings by ownership. That said, what may prevent this team from rising back to the upper echelon is GMBM's lack of success at evaluating forward talent, especially at the center position. Aside from being gifted Getzlaf and making a great trade for a Selke winner in Kesler, I don't think he has shown much ability thus far to recognize and/or develop top-tier centers. The main reason this team is currently in a rebuild re-tool is because GMBM let the cupboards become painfully thin at the center position over the first 6-7 years of his tenure as GMBM while he was loading up on defensemen at the expense of solid forward prospects, so when Kesler finally broke down and Getzlaf started to show his age in their mid-30s, there was a huge void down the middle that could only be patched by trading away an important top-4 RHD (which is now our biggest roster hole). If the Ducks had decent center prospects coming up through the system already when Kesler broke, the past two seasons would have looked much different IMO and this team would already be way ahead of where they are right now in their re-tool. GMBM has tried to fix the lack of center depth in the first and second round over the last four years (after a feeble attempt to make Rakell a top-6 C and trading Wild Bill) and we hope at least a few of those guys work out (i.e. Nattinen, Steel, Morand, Lundestrom, Groulx, Zegras), but his shotgun approach with drafting centers has now thinned out the defense cupboards when he should have been developing depth there, to the point where it's hard to say our defense is going to be much of a strength 2-3 seasons from now when the forwards are (hopefully) ready to compete at a high level.

 

ok, i stand corrected...the wild bill trade i stand by as the one move of BM that i just can't understand...even before we had hindsight, that trade was baffling.

i really hope Zegras can turn into something special...i think that can help. Steel and Lundestrom i think can, too. but as i'm starting to notice with goalies...when you have a player that is a master and a superstar and one of the best ever at the position...it's hard as a franchise to truly replace it quickly. you look at teams who had roy, brodeur, and hasek....and when they lost them...they didn't have a true viable goalie till....well...geez, possibly STILL don't! losing getz i could see having a similar impact...

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6 hours ago, Jasoaks said:

I think Murray is here till at least after the Seattle draft...regardless of how the Ducks do. I have had no issue with BM for the most part. I'm not on the Eakins boat yet...but I understand the move just as I usually can understand his moves, even if I don't like them.

honestly, we've been a pretty successful team under him. sure, no cup, but i mean...from 2013-2017 we were very competitive...i mean, 06/07 we were obviously the champs, but 08 we kinda fell a bit...09 we were close...10 we didn't even make the playoffs...11 we had Dan Ellis and Ray Emery in net...soooo....Hiller's injury was incredibly unfortunate 😕 then down again in 12....and then lost to the cup champs in 7 in 2013, lost to the cup champs in 7 in 2014, lost to the cup champs in 7 in 2015, had a post season with a misuse of goalies in the first round to lose in 7 in 2016, and in 2017 had crazy injuries and a horrible back-up goalie to kill it for us.

Honestly out of all of that...2015 should have been our year for the 2nd cup...and 09 and 2017 we should have been able to make it to the finals (but i don't think we beat pittsburgh in either year)

I agree that he’s likely here until the expansion draft, though I can’t see that being the lynchpin for keeping him on as GM. The Samueli’s have obviously bought into whatever Murray’s plan is in the short-term. The odds of Murray getting another extension are very slim given he has to bring in/develop more scoring while also bringing in quality defensive depth. Doing one of those is hard enough.

4 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

I have no issues with GMBM's lack of big splashes in free agency and I think he's been overall fine in adding players from outside the organization considering the constraints that have been placed on the purse strings by ownership. That said, what may prevent this team from rising back to the upper echelon is GMBM's lack of success at evaluating forward talent, especially at the center position. Aside from being gifted Getzlaf and making a great trade for a Selke winner in Kesler, I don't think he has shown much ability thus far to recognize and/or develop top-tier centers. The main reason this team is currently in a rebuild re-tool is because GMBM let the cupboards become painfully thin at the center position over the first 6-7 years of his tenure as GMBM while he was loading up on defensemen at the expense of solid forward prospects, so when Kesler finally broke down and Getzlaf started to show his age in their mid-30s, there was a huge void down the middle that could only be patched by trading away an important top-4 RHD (which is now our biggest roster hole). If the Ducks had decent center prospects coming up through the system already when Kesler broke, the past two seasons would have looked much different IMO and this team would already be way ahead of where they are right now in their re-tool. GMBM has tried to fix the lack of center depth in the first and second round over the last four years (after a feeble attempt to make Rakell a top-6 C and trading Wild Bill) and we hope at least a few of those guys work out (i.e. Nattinen, Steel, Morand, Lundestrom, Groulx, Zegras), but his shotgun approach with drafting centers has now thinned out the defense cupboards when he should have been developing depth there, to the point where it's hard to say our defense is going to be much of a strength 2-3 seasons from now when the forwards are (hopefully) ready to compete at a high level.

 

His lack of drafting and keeping forward talent is spot on, though I’ll cut him some slack that it’s harder when you’re making the playoffs consistently and going to the WCF. Overall, I’d put him at being an above average drafter but at some point you need to have more success in acquiring scoring forwards. I’m already intrigued as to what he’ll do at the 2020 draft because, outside of goaltending we need everything lol. 

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3 hours ago, Jasoaks said:

ok, i stand corrected...the wild bill trade i stand by as the one move of BM that i just can't understand...even before we had hindsight, that trade was baffling.

i really hope Zegras can turn into something special...i think that can help. Steel and Lundestrom i think can, too. but as i'm starting to notice with goalies...when you have a player that is a master and a superstar and one of the best ever at the position...it's hard as a franchise to truly replace it quickly. you look at teams who had roy, brodeur, and hasek....and when they lost them...they didn't have a true viable goalie till....well...geez, possibly STILL don't! losing getz i could see having a similar impact...

Wild Bill was 22 years, 2 months old when he was traded. Exact same age Troy Terry is now. 

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16 hours ago, MooseDuck said:

I would have to disagree with your outlook on the Ducks. Team is no Joke nor is the Players.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

You would.., as you look through orange and black glasses.  🤪.   

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13 hours ago, FanSince1993 said:

Agree that Ducks have regressed under BM watch. Over long 12 years the only significant FA acquisition was 31 y/o Kesler with bad knees. While Brian Burke was going after best players available, BM prefers to joggle 4th liners during free agency and sign some average players to huge contract extensions (you guys know who do I mean).

If BM was in charge in 2005, 2006, would he go after Sean Pronger, Scott Niedermayer, Teemy Selanne? I highly doubt; 

Players are no joke, they play to the best of their ability, but lack of high draft picks along with bad or insignificant free agency acquisitions finally resulted in gradually turning this franchise from Stanley Cap contender to below-average team playing in half-empty arena. Hiring questionable people for last 2 head coaching positions did not help either.

Ownership: this is the different story. We don't see any interviews with Samuelis regarding team status, no statements, no comments, nothing. Except ceremonial puck drops on some rare occasions, nobody sees them at Honda Center anymore. Seems like they lost interest in this team or being brainwashed from year to year by team CEO "Next season we will be much better".

Good reply...  Agree, but players, yes are NO joke and try to play to their ability, but they are human.  I said “team” is a joke. They are living in Socal making bank and have plenty to fall back on.  Without leadership, they don’t give a sh*t.  Leadership (GM & Owners) starts at the top.  When Burke left, the team spiraled down the toilet.   

Edited by Ice_Attack

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8 hours ago, HockeyIzCool said:

We've been Season Seat holders since Day 1, but this is probably our last year.  We used to be able to give away tickets to clients, but these days, nobody is interested in them.  When we try to sell on Ticket Exchange or Stubhub, we usually get 50% of what they cost.  It's really tough to motivate ourselves to deal with an hour of rush hour traffic, only to watch a lackluster performance, and the league's worst Power Play.

Parking costs $20, and the concession prices have become RIDICULOUS.  They even have $25 Burgers.  They're obviously trying to compensate for the loss in ticket sales revenue by gouging those who are still attending the games.  Between ticket price, parking & dinner, the price for 2 to watch a Ducks team that nobody expects to make the playoffs anytime soon, is over $200.  For $25, I can sit at home with a Pizza & 6 Pack of Beer and watch the game on Fox Sports West.

It's hard to end a 27 year run as SS holders, but we can still be fans, and get great seats for a handful of games per season.  There is little distinction between a SS holder fan, and a regular fan who sits in the cheap seats for a few games each year.

Exactly why I left as a ssh in 2010.  

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4 hours ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

I agree that he’s likely here until the expansion draft, though I can’t see that being the lynchpin for keeping him on as GM. The Samueli’s have obviously bought into whatever Murray’s plan is in the short-term. The odds of Murray getting another extension are very slim given he has to bring in/develop more scoring while also bringing in quality defensive depth. Doing one of those is hard enough.

His lack of drafting and keeping forward talent is spot on, though I’ll cut him some slack that it’s harder when you’re making the playoffs consistently and going to the WCF. Overall, I’d put him at being an above average drafter but at some point you need to have more success in acquiring scoring forwards. I’m already intrigued as to what he’ll do at the 2020 draft because, outside of goaltending we need everything lol. 

“Keeping forward talent”...?  He sold Cogs (hardest working/fastest forward they had at the time with a huge +\-) for a f’ing bag of pucks.  

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17 hours ago, gorbachav5 said:

Maybe this only reinforces your point, but Kesler wasn't a free agent.  We traded Bonino and Sbisa (and picks) for him.  

But speaking against your point, I think Murray has largely been handcuffed by circumstances here.  You mention "Sean" Pronger, who was a marginal NHL forward who played for the Ducks in the 90's.  I'm sure you mean CHRIS Pronger, and the Ducks traded for him.  That was very similar to the Kesler deal where a player wanted out of his situation and the Ducks took advantage of it.  Scott Niedermayer was only signed because his brother played here.  Teemu Selanne is a special case since he had deep ties to the organization already.  Burke signed a few more free agents, but those were, from memory, pretty bad signings that really wreaked havoc on the cap (Schneider, Bertuzzi).

I think there are two things going on here: one is that until very recently, the Ducks have not been a cap team.  We can blame the Samuelis for that, but the Ducks have never gone out and been huge players in the free agent market because ownership didn't allot the money to do it.  But I also think it's tough to get the top free agents here.  Yes, the weather is nice, but it's not a highly visible franchise and it's on the West Coast. California taxes might play a part for some guys, too.  If your'e one of the top guys (like a Niedermayer) and you're interested in being a star (not like a Niedermayer), you're going to want to go to more prominent location.  I don't think it's a deal-breaker for most guys, but I do think it means the Ducks' offer will need to be 10% greater to get those guys in the door.  I think Murray realized that early on and has looked to improve through trade (where he's been fairly successful) and on the margins through depth signings (where it's been a mixed bag except for his love of defensive pylons).

To be clear, I don't think Murray has been fantastic - I think he's been mostly good, but his time has run its course.  I would not be surprised that if the Ducks don't make the playoffs this season and then continue to struggle next season that he'd be gone sometime in early 2021.

Excellent post and especially the bolded part is what bothers me. It became painfully obvious when both Faulk and Shattenkirk said no this summer. BM has made some boneheaded moves but he did try to land us an offensive D man. When they both don't want to be here he can only do so much.

I think in order to land free agents we're gonna have to be more competitive. See Kesler, who wanted to come because he felt he had a chance to win. The next few years our reinforcements will have to come from within or via trade. I think it's very unlikely we'll be able to land a big UFA right now unless we overpay. Probably not the route to go after a season without Playoffs. Let's hope it stays just one season but we have to be somewhat realistic. This season can still go either way. Let's hope we have a #1 C in Zegras and that he can start contributing in the very near future.

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7 hours ago, Ice_Attack said:

“Keeping forward talent”...?  He sold Cogs (hardest working/fastest forward they had at the time with a huge +\-) for a f’ing bag of pucks.  

I said lack of keeping forward talent. A Cogs trade seemed like it would happen at some point, but just not when Murray was complaining about leadership and work ethic, which Cogs exudes.

2 hours ago, DucksFan_08 said:

Excellent post and especially the bolded part is what bothers me. It became painfully obvious when both Faulk and Shattenkirk said no this summer. BM has made some boneheaded moves but he did try to land us an offensive D man. When they both don't want to be here he can only do so much.

I think in order to land free agents we're gonna have to be more competitive. See Kesler, who wanted to come because he felt he had a chance to win. The next few years our reinforcements will have to come from within or via trade. I think it's very unlikely we'll be able to land a big UFA right now unless we overpay. Probably not the route to go after a season without Playoffs. Let's hope it stays just one season but we have to be somewhat realistic. This season can still go either way. Let's hope we have a #1 C in Zegras and that he can start contributing in the very near future.

I liked Murray going for Shattenkirk but giving up Kase for Faulk with the subsequent extension would have been such a stupid and short-sided move to make at this point. The fact he wanted to do it is what worries me about having him as the GM. 

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3 hours ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

I said lack of keeping forward talent. A Cogs trade seemed like it would happen at some point, but just not when Murray was complaining about leadership and work ethic, which Cogs exudes.

I liked Murray going for Shattenkirk but giving up Kase for Faulk with the subsequent extension would have been such a stupid and short-sided move to make at this point. The fact he wanted to do it is what worries me about having him as the GM. 

For sure. What is it with GMBM being willing to dish out these contract extensions for players he is trying to (or has just recently) brought into the team? You'd think he'd want to see how a player fits the Ducks culture and system over time before handing over a multi-year extension (which usually has some sort of NMC/NTC attached to it). But no... Mark Fistric - 3 years/$3.8M after just 28 games as a Duck. Patrick Eaves - 3 years/$9.45M after just 27 games as a Duck. Kevin Bieksa - 2yrs/$8M + a full NMC before any games as a Duck. Adam Henrique - 5yrs/$29.125M after just 2/3 of a season as a Duck (Henrique's is not a bad deal compared to the others, but still seemed too early to ink that kind of an extension considering he had a full season left on his existing contract).

There is a significant history of GMBM making these offers, and I doubt the Faulk offer is the last time we'll see something like that. 

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24 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

For sure. What is it with GMBM being willing to dish out these contract extensions for players he is trying to (or has just recently) brought into the team? You'd think he'd want to see how a player fits the Ducks culture and system over time before handing over a multi-year extension (which usually has some sort of NMC/NTC attached to it). But no... Mark Fistric - 3 years/$3.8M after just 28 games as a Duck. Patrick Eaves - 3 years/$9.45M after just 27 games as a Duck. Kevin Bieksa - 2yrs/$8M + a full NMC before any games as a Duck. Adam Henrique - 5yrs/$29.125M after just 2/3 of a season as a Duck (Henrique's is not a bad deal compared to the others, but still seemed too early to ink that kind of an extension considering he had a full season left on his existing contract).

There is a significant history of GMBM making these offers, and I doubt the Faulk offer is the last time we'll see something like that. 

the bieksa signing im guessing is completely based off of Kesler's recommendation. when you've got a player like Kesler vouching and asking for a guy to come over...that was more to keep #17 happy than anything else.

and while for the most part i disliked Bieksa...he was killing it in the 2017 playoffs. before the injuries 😕

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2 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

For sure. What is it with GMBM being willing to dish out these contract extensions for players he is trying to (or has just recently) brought into the team? You'd think he'd want to see how a player fits the Ducks culture and system over time before handing over a multi-year extension (which usually has some sort of NMC/NTC attached to it). But no... Mark Fistric - 3 years/$3.8M after just 28 games as a Duck. Patrick Eaves - 3 years/$9.45M after just 27 games as a Duck. Kevin Bieksa - 2yrs/$8M + a full NMC before any games as a Duck. Adam Henrique - 5yrs/$29.125M after just 2/3 of a season as a Duck (Henrique's is not a bad deal compared to the others, but still seemed too early to ink that kind of an extension considering he had a full season left on his existing contract).

There is a significant history of GMBM making these offers, and I doubt the Faulk offer is the last time we'll see something like that. 

+ Kesler, 6 years with NTC while still having one year left from his previous contract. +Fowler, 8 years with only 4 teams trade list (pretty much untradeable). This guy is a complete product of GMBM. + 8 years to Gibson, he is good as of today but I am afraid the last 2-3 years of his contract will be the same situation as Kings have now with Quick. +6 years to Despres after only 30+ games with the Ducks. Now team is on the hook till 2024 to buy him out completely. The only good long-term signing is 8 years extension given to 22 y/o Rackell at reasonable rate

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18 minutes ago, FanSince1993 said:

+ Kesler, 6 years with NTC while still having one year left from his previous contract. +Fowler, 8 years with only 4 teams trade list (pretty much untradeable). This guy is a complete product of GMBM. + 8 years to Gibson, he is good as of today but I am afraid the last 2-3 years of his contract will be the same situation as Kings have now with Quick. +6 years to Despres after only 30+ games with the Ducks. Now team is on the hook till 2024 to buy him out completely. The only good long-term signing is 8 years extension given to 22 y/o Rackell at reasonable rate

? What does that mean? I've never heard of such a thing. 

But also, I'm not against him extending guys. If they're ufa what does he do? Let everyone walk? Also, I think he wanted to get ahead of the curve. Look at guys that have held out this past off season. You seriously want that to be us? 

BM is not perfect, but he also banks on guys to continue their progression. Eaves actually was very good for us. He was a ufa. He could have let him walk but chose to sign him because he was so good with Getz. Depres was also a good player for us before everything went down hill. Sure he could have waited but again he wanted to get ahead of the curve. Unfortunately, and hindsight is 20/20, but some of his signings were failures. But not all of them. Some of them, yeah the writing was on the wall but he took a risk. But I agree that BM just doesn't seem like the guy to really push us to the cup. 

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1 hour ago, FanSince1993 said:

+ Kesler, 6 years with NTC while still having one year left from his previous contract. +Fowler, 8 years with only 4 teams trade list (pretty much untradeable). This guy is a complete product of GMBM. + 8 years to Gibson, he is good as of today but I am afraid the last 2-3 years of his contract will be the same situation as Kings have now with Quick. +6 years to Despres after only 30+ games with the Ducks. Now team is on the hook till 2024 to buy him out completely. The only good long-term signing is 8 years extension given to 22 y/o Rackell at reasonable rate

I still have no problem with Kesler's contract. Even though he still had another season left on his existing contract, he'd played a full season for the Ducks and had carried them to Game 7 of the WCF. Kesler was a superstar too. You have to get ahead of the curve before the UFA bidding war starts for superstars. Its a shame that Kesler broke, but he was really good for us when he was healthy. I'd forgotten about Despres though. I give GMBM some slack on that one because Despres was going to still be a 25-year-old RFA at the end of his existing contract, so getting out in front of his last RFA contract made sense at the time. But you're right that it was a lot of years to give him on an extension when he'd only played a total of 32 games for the Ducks to that point.

 

46 minutes ago, g20topdogg said:

But also, I'm not against him extending guys. If they're ufa what does he do? Let everyone walk? Also, I think he wanted to get ahead of the curve. Look at guys that have held out this past off season. You seriously want that to be us? 

BM is not perfect, but he also banks on guys to continue their progression. Eaves actually was very good for us. He was a ufa. He could have let him walk but chose to sign him because he was so good with Getz. Depres was also a good player for us before everything went down hill. Sure he could have waited but again he wanted to get ahead of the curve. Unfortunately, and hindsight is 20/20, but some of his signings were failures. But not all of them. Some of them, yeah the writing was on the wall but he took a risk. But I agree that BM just doesn't seem like the guy to really push us to the cup. 

We're not immune from holdouts either. Ritchie missed 9 games due to a hold out last year. Rakell and Lindholm both missed the start of the 2017-18 season due to hold outs. 

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