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dtsdlaw

2020 TDL - Who stays? Who goes?

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3 minutes ago, gorbachav5 said:

I would hate to see Kase go, but with his injury history, it at least makes some sense.  I love watching that guy play, though.

I don't see moving Silf.  Murray didn't move him at last year's trade deadline and instead signed him to a medium length extension.  Trading him half a year into that would be a bad look, in my opinion, and Silf is still young enough and good enough to be part of the next good Ducks team.

Rakell is the guy of those three that I'd be fine with moving.  Assuming his market isn't too depressed by his recent inconsistency, I think he could bring back some nice assets.

Agreed. I don’t think that Silf is getting moved either for the reasons you stated. Though, I’d hope that Murray at least has the mindset of listening to any offers, 

After what Toffoli just went for, Rakell would certainly bring back a better return. Toffoli has been more inconsistent and Rakell has 34 more goals and 58 more total points than him over the last 4 seasons. I like both him and Kase but think that at least one of them is getting moved at some point. Kase’s injuries are just awful, especially when he’s been one of the greater diamond in the rough finds that you can have

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I’d love for Ritchie to get moved.

his hockey iq is dismal 

I see he number 10 in the nhl in penalty minutes- most of them dumb...

admit it was a lousy pick and move on

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Winnipeg has acquired Dylan DeMelo from Ottawa in exchange for a third-round pick in the 2020 NHL Draft.

The Blues sent a second-round pick in 2020 and a conditional fourth-round pick in 2021 to the Canadiens for Scandella

The Capitals sent a 2020 second round pick (originally acquired from Colorado) and a conditional 2021 third round pick to the Sharks for Dillon. 

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1 hour ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

Agreed. I don’t think that Silf is getting moved either for the reasons you stated. Though, I’d hope that Murray at least has the mindset of listening to any offers, 

After what Toffoli just went for, Rakell would certainly bring back a better return. Toffoli has been more inconsistent and Rakell has 34 more goals and 58 more total points than him over the last 4 seasons. I like both him and Kase but think that at least one of them is getting moved at some point. Kase’s injuries are just awful, especially when he’s been one of the greater diamond in the rough finds that you can have

I don't think you can even make a comparison here. Toffoli is a pending UFA. Rakell has 2 years left on his contract after this season at a ridiculously low cap hit. And as much as Rakell has struggled as of late, he's out-performed his 1st round draft spot, so he's extremely valuable on the trade market. I'd expect a top-20 1st round pick + a roster player + a highly regarded prospect... i.e. similar to what GMBM got from Ottawa in the Bobby Ryan trade. And I don't think any GM in the league is going to pay that right now.

I also think it would be dumb to move Rakell unless/until we have someone else who can score goals to take his place. So far none of the kids have shown any real scoring ability, let alone 30+ goal potential.

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20 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

 

I also think it would be dumb to move Rakell unless/until we have someone else who can score goals to take his place. So far none of the kids have shown any real scoring ability, let alone 30+ goal potential.

This x 10000000000000000000

Rakell is struggling in part because of the lack of talent around him.    I do like Steel and Getz with him though. Hoping that develops into something.

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1 hour ago, hoxxey said:

I’d love for Ritchie to get moved.

his hockey iq is dismal 

I see he number 10 in the nhl in penalty minutes- most of them dumb...

admit it was a lousy pick and move on

Ritchie’s stupid penalties are still the biggest problem but he’s an effective player. I’d bet the farm that he gets moved because Murray didn’t like his holdout and because there are too many left wingers (though no one that’s currently as good as him other than Rakell)

50 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

I don't think you can even make a comparison here. Toffoli is a pending UFA. Rakell has 2 years left on his contract after this season at a ridiculously low cap hit. And as much as Rakell has struggled as of late, he's out-performed his 1st round draft spot, so he's extremely valuable on the trade market. I'd expect a top-20 1st round pick + a roster player + a highly regarded prospect... i.e. similar to what GMBM got from Ottawa in the Bobby Ryan trade. And I don't think any GM in the league is going to pay that right now.

I also think it would be dumb to move Rakell unless/until we have someone else who can score goals to take his place. So far none of the kids have shown any real scoring ability, let alone 30+ goal potential.

oh, I’m not saying that you would need to trade him now unless you get just an over the top offer. I think that if he does get moved then the price tag that you stated sounds pretty on point.
 

I fully agree with your assessment about he kids not showing the ability to score at Rakell’s level. If that persists then it’s likely that the Ducks’ rebuild is going to be prolonged and we will need to add more quality picks and prospects. With Rakell’s contract coming up, would you re-sign him if you can get the type of returned that you mentioned? 30-goal scorers Toffoli and Zucker just got traded without any scoring waiting in the wings, and I think that the same thing could happen to Rakell.

 

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37 minutes ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

Ritchie’s stupid penalties are still the biggest problem but he’s an effective player. I’d bet the farm that he gets moved because Murray didn’t like his holdout and because there are too many left wingers (though no one that’s currently as good as him other than Rakell)

oh, I’m not saying that you would need to trade him now unless you get just an over the top offer. I think that if he does get moved then the price tag that you stated sounds pretty on point.
 

I fully agree with your assessment about he kids not showing the ability to score at Rakell’s level. If that persists then it’s likely that the Ducks’ rebuild is going to be prolonged and we will need to add more quality picks and prospects. With Rakell’s contract coming up, would you re-sign him if you can get the type of returned that you mentioned? 30-goal scorers Toffoli and Zucker just got traded without any scoring waiting in the wings, and I think that the same thing could happen to Rakell.

 

Toffoli is a pending UFA, so obviously he was going to be traded since he's an expiring asset on a team in full rebuild. I really hope the Ducks aren't still sucking in February 2022 (two years away) the way LA is right now. If they still are, then yes the team should probably move Rakell.

With Zucker, I don't really follow the Wild closely enough to know, but it sure seems like Guerin is looking to re-shape that team and Zucker and Boudreau are likely just the tip of the iceberg. I was also under the impression that the org is really high on Fiala (23 y/o) who was outscoring Zucker when he was traded. 

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1 hour ago, dtsdlaw said:

Toffoli is a pending UFA, so obviously he was going to be traded since he's an expiring asset on a team in full rebuild. I really hope the Ducks aren't still sucking in February 2022 (two years away) the way LA is right now. If they still are, then yes the team should probably move Rakell.

With Zucker, I don't really follow the Wild closely enough to know, but it sure seems like Guerin is looking to re-shape that team and Zucker and Boudreau are likely just the tip of the iceberg. I was also under the impression that the org is really high on Fiala (23 y/o) who was outscoring Zucker when he was traded. 

I hope they aren’t this bad either but if the Ducks are still struggling even next season then I think Rakell trade talks would pick up more steam. LA is bad right now, I am more than envious of the prospects and assets that they have  accumulated. If rumors are true, then Martinez could be gone by Monday also. If they don’t have a unusually high number of busts or underachievers then that is going to be a very scary team to do with for a long time. Not to mention they will likely use their assets to bring in better pieces that can help them immediately.

Looking at Fiala, he’s on pace for 21 goals this season and has a career high of 23. That’s nothing to sneeze and what’s weird is that their top-2 goal scorers are going to be 36 years old this year (Staal, Parise). Looks like he could get to 30 but we still have Kase, Silf and Henrique who are younger and could reach those numbers.

I wish, that like the Wild, we also had a new GM to reshape the team lol

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3 Players I tink would fit well into the Ducks Hockey team they are imho as Follows:

1.Kasperi Kapanen

2.Brandon Carlo

3.Alexander Wennberg.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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17 hours ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

I hope they aren’t this bad either but if the Ducks are still struggling even next season then I think Rakell trade talks would pick up more steam. LA is bad right now, I am more than envious of the prospects and assets that they have  accumulated. If rumors are true, then Martinez could be gone by Monday also. If they don’t have a unusually high number of busts or underachievers then that is going to be a very scary team to do with for a long time. Not to mention they will likely use their assets to bring in better pieces that can help them immediately.

Looking at Fiala, he’s on pace for 21 goals this season and has a career high of 23. That’s nothing to sneeze and what’s weird is that their top-2 goal scorers are going to be 36 years old this year (Staal, Parise). Looks like he could get to 30 but we still have Kase, Silf and Henrique who are younger and could reach those numbers.

I wish, that like the Wild, we also had a new GM to reshape the team lol

The Buffalo Sabres say hello. Pronman (the Athletic) had them ranked as the #1 farm system in August 2018. But they've created such a terrible culture of losing that they aren't scaring anyone any time soon.

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8 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

The Buffalo Sabres say hello. Pronman (the Athletic) had them ranked as the #1 farm system in August 2018. But they've created such a terrible culture of losing that they aren't scaring anyone any time soon.

The Kings aren’t the Cleveland Browns of the NHL like the Sabres though and painfully for us, won those two cups in three years. So, I’m not counting on a terrible losing culture to suddenly befall them but will certainly root for that to happen. They still have Doughty and Kopitar for the foreseeable future to help prevent it also. Sure, the Kings aren‘t guaranteed success but they continue to improve their odds that they will have the pieces in place to be very good for a while. Would you rather be in the Kings’ situation or Ducks’ right now? I’d pick LA’s, they at least have laid the ground work for their rebuild while I can’t even say with certainty that Murray even thinks that we need one, let alone execute it. 

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11 minutes ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

The Kings aren’t the Cleveland Browns of the NHL like the Sabres though and painfully for us, won those two cups in three years. So, I’m not counting on a terrible losing culture to suddenly befall them but will certainly root for that to happen. They still have Doughty and Kopitar for the foreseeable future to help prevent it also. Sure, the Kings aren‘t guaranteed success but they continue to improve their odds that they will have the pieces in place to be very good for a while. Would you rather be in the Kings’ situation or Ducks’ right now? I’d pick LA’s, they at least have laid the ground work for their rebuild while I can’t even say with certainty that Murray even thinks that we need one, let alone execute it. 

Sure but the kings have also been garbage for longer than the ducks. We're arguably in the second year of a rebuild (or 1st depending on how you look at it) and the kings have been a bunch of has-beens since they won. 

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Just now, g20topdogg said:

Sure but the kings have also been garbage for longer than the ducks. We're arguably in the second year of a rebuild (or 1st depending on how you look at it) and the kings have been a bunch of has-beens since they won. 

The Ducks and Kings both last made the playoffs in 2018 and each got swept, so I don’t think that LA has really been garbage for any longer than the Ducks. Until this last draft, The Kings hadn’t drafted in the top-10 since 2009 (#5 B. Schenn), where we drafted Ritchie #10 in 2014.

The difference seems to be that LA actually committed to a rebuild sooner and stuck with it, allowing them more draft picks/prospects that are now the envy of the league. The scary thing is that they are going to get even better this summer.

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2 hours ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

The Ducks and Kings both last made the playoffs in 2018 and each got swept, so I don’t think that LA has really been garbage for any longer than the Ducks. Until this last draft, The Kings hadn’t drafted in the top-10 since 2009 (#5 B. Schenn), where we drafted Ritchie #10 in 2014.

The difference seems to be that LA actually committed to a rebuild sooner and stuck with it, allowing them more draft picks/prospects that are now the envy of the league. The scary thing is that they are going to get even better this summer.

Ritchie was the pick we acquired in the Bobby Ryan trade. A top-10 pick there isn't indicative of being good or bad. Lindholm at #6 in 2012 is the last high draft pick the team "earned" through their play. Your point is still valid though. The highest pick the Kings "earned" in the past 10 years was the #13 overall in 2015, which they traded for Milan Lucic. :lol:

Edit: Check that. They finished with the 10th worst record and got Vilardi at #11 in 2017 (after Philly won the lottery and bumped them out of the top-10). So yeah, the 2018 playoffs notwithstanding, they've been bad for a little longer than the Ducks have. The Ducks were in the conference finals in 2017.

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2 hours ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

The Ducks and Kings both last made the playoffs in 2018 and each got swept, so I don’t think that LA has really been garbage for any longer than the Ducks. Until this last draft, The Kings hadn’t drafted in the top-10 since 2009 (#5 B. Schenn), where we drafted Ritchie #10 in 2014.

The difference seems to be that LA actually committed to a rebuild sooner and stuck with it, allowing them more draft picks/prospects that are now the envy of the league. The scary thing is that they are going to get even better this summer.

I don't consider adding kovy as committing to a rebuild sooner. They thought they could give it another go when it was pretty obvious they should have torn the team apart sooner. They had one of the oldest teams in the league the past half decade and didn't commit to a rebuild. We're only behind them because we were the better team for far longer. Besides if Kesler didn't go down we're arguably still trying for the cup. We were also one of the most injured teams the past few seasons and still managed to get to the playoffs with elite #1 center general Grant when we had no business being there. We could have torn it down at that point but like the kings thought we could give it a go. This made our prospect pool worse then theirs but we also had a good pool of players none the less. 

What I think should be the bigger question is what happened to our promising defense and defensive organizational depth? We have no real forward depth and no defensive depth. It's like it just disappeared. This is where BM is at fault. We couldn't just lose it and have nothing to show for it. 

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1 hour ago, dtsdlaw said:

Ritchie was the pick we acquired in the Bobby Ryan trade. A top-10 pick there isn't indicative of being good or bad. Lindholm at #6 in 2012 is the last high draft pick the team "earned" through their play. Your point is still valid though. The highest pick the Kings "earned" in the past 10 years was the #13 overall in 2015, which they traded for Milan Lucic. :lol:

Edit: Check that. They finished with the 10th worst record and got Vilardi at #11 in 2017 (after Philly won the lottery and bumped them out of the top-10). So yeah, the 2018 playoffs notwithstanding, they've been bad for a little longer than the Ducks have. The Ducks were in the conference finals in 2017.

Agree that the Kings have been bad a slightly longer recently than the Ducks but not to point where they should be so far ahead in the rebuild process. Plus, they were coming off of Cup wins and lost several members of those teams which is what usually happens.

38 minutes ago, g20topdogg said:

I don't consider adding kovy as committing to a rebuild sooner. They thought they could give it another go when it was pretty obvious they should have torn the team apart sooner. They had one of the oldest teams in the league the past half decade and didn't commit to a rebuild. We're only behind them because we were the better team for far longer. Besides if Kesler didn't go down we're arguably still trying for the cup. We were also one of the most injured teams the past few seasons and still managed to get to the playoffs with elite #1 center general Grant when we had no business being there. We could have torn it down at that point but like the kings thought we could give it a go. This made our prospect pool worse then theirs but we also had a good pool of players none the less. 

What I think should be the bigger question is what happened to our promising defense and defensive organizational depth? We have no real forward depth and no defensive depth. It's like it just disappeared. This is where BM is at fault. We couldn't just lose it and have nothing to show for it. 

Yeah, but the Kings didn’t give up any assets to get Kovalchuck other that cap space. They weren’t spending picks/prospects. If he panned out, then they could possibly make another run, if he didn’t then they already had a pretty good prospect pool at that point and could just continue adding to it. The Ducks didn’t. It was a pretty low-risk move other than money, which they have since shipped out more than enough of to cover his cap hit while adding assets for their rebuild. They also won two cups, lost several members of those teams and yet still managed to draft insanely well while making the playoffs mostly during that time.

we should have begun tearing it down after the WCF run, which is why I didn’t like trading Vatanen for Henrique and wanted to start the rebuild then by getting future assets for him. Even after getting smoked by San Jose, Murray still didn’t think drastic changes were needed as evidenced by his lack of roster moves and keeping Carlyle.
 

I absolutely agree with you about our defensive pipeline being gutted and nothing to really show for it. Hopefully, Guhle becomes functional and Tracey is better than expected. Outside of re-hiring Carlyle, this is probably Murray’s biggest screw up and now the Ducks are struggling at both ends of the ice that will take more time to fix.

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1 hour ago, dtsdlaw said:

Ritchie was the pick we acquired in the Bobby Ryan trade. A top-10 pick there isn't indicative of being good or bad. Lindholm at #6 in 2012 is the last high draft pick the team "earned" through their play. Your point is still valid though. The highest pick the Kings "earned" in the past 10 years was the #13 overall in 2015, which they traded for Milan Lucic. :lol:

Edit: Check that. They finished with the 10th worst record and got Vilardi at #11 in 2017 (after Philly won the lottery and bumped them out of the top-10). So yeah, the 2018 playoffs notwithstanding, they've been bad for a little longer than the Ducks have. The Ducks were in the conference finals in 2017.

The Kings were garbage for 85% of their existence prior to their Cup run.  Ducks are basically in their second weak stretch, their first being their actual start-up.  Other than that, we had a couple stray singular years missing where we bounced right back. 

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50 minutes ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

Agree that the Kings have been bad a slightly longer recently than the Ducks but not to point where they should be so far ahead in the rebuild process. Plus, they were coming off of Cup wins and lost several members of those teams which is what usually happens.

Yeah, but the Kings didn’t give up any assets to get Kovalchuck other that cap space. They weren’t spending picks/prospects. If he panned out, then they could possibly make another run, if he didn’t then they already had a pretty good prospect pool at that point and could just continue adding to it. The Ducks didn’t. It was a pretty low-risk move other than money, which they have since shipped out more than enough of to cover his cap hit while adding assets for their rebuild. They also won two cups, lost several members of those teams and yet still managed to draft insanely well while making the playoffs mostly during that time.

we should have begun tearing it down after the WCF run, which is why I didn’t like trading Vatanen for Henrique and wanted to start the rebuild then by getting future assets for him. Even after getting smoked by San Jose, Murray still didn’t think drastic changes were needed as evidenced by his lack of roster moves and keeping Carlyle.
 

I absolutely agree with you about our defensive pipeline being gutted and nothing to really show for it. Hopefully, Guhle becomes functional and Tracey is better than expected. Outside of re-hiring Carlyle, this is probably Murray’s biggest screw up and now the Ducks are struggling at both ends of the ice that will take more time to fix.

I just really disagree that they are ahead of the Ducks in the rebuilding process, unless you think that there are still major sell-offs coming for the Ducks 2-3 years down the road and that the Ducks will still be a bottom-5 team by then. I don't.

The Kings are razing that team to the ground, and shortly they'll have only Kopitar (now age 32), Brown (35), Carter (35), Doughty (30), and Quick (34) left from their good years. And sure, they have a lot of good looking prospects right now (some who will work out, some who won't), but will any of their existing core players still be any good by the time their current crop of prospects are ready to make a legitimate impact at the NHL level? I'd say definitely no for Carter and Brown and probably Quick. Doughty will probably still be good, but not the Doughty of 2012-2016. Kopi may also still have some left in the tank too, but how much? So the Kings are basically hoping to repeat what Chicago and Pittsburgh did in the early 2000s, although so far without the benefit of any pick higher than the #5. Good luck to them. It's also significant that Wheeler sure doesn't think much of their goaltending prospects. That's big-time trouble considering Quick's age and recent level of play. You can't win in the NHL without goaltending.

Meanwhile, the Ducks have a 26-year-old elite netminder who is a top-5 goalie in the NHL, a handful of very good players in their mid-20s (Lindholm, Rakell, Fowler) who will still be good for a long time, and a whole bunch of mid-tier forward prospects that still look pretty promising. With Zegras in the pipeline and our likely top-5 pick coming this draft, I think the Ducks are currently in better shape than the Kings. That may change over the next 2-3 years since it looks like the Kings will be on the bottom for a very long time, but the Kings are also actually starting really far behind because they traded away so many picks for the likes of Gaborik, Lucic, Sekera, Regehr, etc. Missing those picks means they have basically nothing other than Iafallo in that 24-28 year old range that will be key to making the rebuild a shorter process.

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1 hour ago, gotchabari said:

The Kings were garbage for 85% of their existence prior to their Cup run.  Ducks are basically in their second weak stretch, their first being their actual start-up.  Other than that, we had a couple stray singular years missing where we bounced right back. 

Yes. I don't think the kings are a good comparable for this reason. Detroit was a better comparable up until a few years ago. Since probably the year 2000 (too lazy to look it up) we've only missed the playoffs a few times. I remember reading an article a few years back that had Detroit and us near the top in number of playoffs since some year(not sure which one). So to compare us to the kings really isn't fair. Their prospect pool will be better because they've been garbage (lol Edmonton) and ours was always going to be worse because we've been the better team in overall standings. 

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23 hours ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

I hope they aren’t this bad either but if the Ducks are still struggling even next season then I think Rakell trade talks would pick up more steam. LA is bad right now, I am more than envious of the prospects and assets that they have  accumulated. If rumors are true, then Martinez could be gone by Monday also. If they don’t have a unusually high number of busts or underachievers then that is going to be a very scary team to do with for a long time. Not to mention they will likely use their assets to bring in better pieces that can help them immediately.

Looking at Fiala, he’s on pace for 21 goals this season and has a career high of 23. That’s nothing to sneeze and what’s weird is that their top-2 goal scorers are going to be 36 years old this year (Staal, Parise). Looks like he could get to 30 but we still have Kase, Silf and Henrique who are younger and could reach those numbers.

I wish, that like the Wild, we also had a new GM to reshape the team lol

Totally think it is time for a new GM to take the team at its current state and mold into a new direction whatever that may be

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39 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

I just really disagree that they are ahead of the Ducks in the rebuilding process, unless you think that there are still major sell-offs coming for the Ducks 2-3 years down the road and that the Ducks will still be a bottom-5 team by then. I don't.

The Kings are razing that team to the ground, and shortly they'll have only Kopitar (now age 32), Brown (35), Carter (35), Doughty (30), and Quick (34) left from their good years. And sure, they have a lot of good looking prospects right now (some who will work out, some who won't), but will any of their existing core players still be any good by the time their current crop of prospects are ready to make a legitimate impact at the NHL level? I'd say definitely no for Carter and Brown and probably Quick. Doughty will probably still be good, but not the Doughty of 2012-2016. Kopi may also still have some left in the tank too, but how much? So the Kings are basically hoping to repeat what Chicago and Pittsburgh did in the early 2000s, although so far without the benefit of any pick higher than the #5. Good luck to them. It's also significant that Wheeler sure doesn't think much of their goaltending prospects. That's big-time trouble considering Quick's age and recent level of play. You can't win in the NHL without goaltending.

Meanwhile, the Ducks have a 26-year-old elite netminder who is a top-5 goalie in the NHL, a handful of very good players in their mid-20s (Lindholm, Rakell, Fowler) who will still be good for a long time, and a whole bunch of mid-tier forward prospects that still look pretty promising. With Zegras in the pipeline and our likely top-5 pick coming this draft, I think the Ducks are currently in better shape than the Kings. That may change over the next 2-3 years since it looks like the Kings will be on the bottom for a very long time, but the Kings are also actually starting really far behind because they traded away so many picks for the likes of Gaborik, Lucic, Sekera, Regehr, etc. Missing those picks means they have basically nothing other than Iafallo in that 24-28 year old range that will be key to making the rebuild a shorter process.

agree, wholeheartedly.  it's way, WAY too speculative to say the Kings are ahead of the Ducks in the rebuild, at this time.  I wonder who they'll be making available in the ED.  

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33 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

I just really disagree that they are ahead of the Ducks in the rebuilding process, unless you think that there are still major sell-offs coming for the Ducks 2-3 years down the road and that the Ducks will still be a bottom-5 team by then. I don't.

The Kings are razing that team to the ground, and shortly they'll have only Kopitar (now age 32), Brown (35), Carter (35), Doughty (30), and Quick (34) left from their good years. And sure, they have a lot of good looking prospects right now (some who will work out, some who won't), but will any of their existing core players still be any good by the time their current crop of prospects are ready to make a legitimate impact at the NHL level? I'd say definitely no for Carter and Brown and probably Quick. Doughty will probably still be good, but not the Doughty of 2012-2016. Kopi may also still have some left in the tank too, but how much? So the Kings are basically hoping to repeat what Chicago and Pittsburgh did in the early 2000s, although so far without the benefit of any pick higher than the #5. Good luck to them. It's also significant that Wheeler sure doesn't think much of their goaltending prospects. That's big-time trouble considering Quick's age and recent level of play. You can't win in the NHL without goaltending.

Meanwhile, the Ducks have a 26-year-old elite netminder who is a top-5 goalie in the NHL, a handful of very good players in their mid-20s (Lindholm, Rakell, Fowler) who will still be good for a long time, and a whole bunch of mid-tier forward prospects that still look pretty promising. With Zegras in the pipeline and our likely top-5 pick coming this draft, I think the Ducks are currently in better shape than the Kings. That may change over the next 2-3 years since it looks like the Kings will be on the bottom for a very long time, but the Kings are also actually starting really far behind because they traded away so many picks for the likes of Gaborik, Lucic, Sekera, Regehr, etc. Missing those picks means they have basically nothing other than Iafallo in that 24-28 year old range that will be key to making the rebuild a shorter process.

The bolded is the same question that I feel you can ask about the Ducks moving forward. Henrique just turned 30 and Silf will be 30 in October. Getzlaf is 34. Manson will be 30 next year. Will the Ducks get enough talent in the system and will the rookies progress enough to where the Ducks can contend before those guys decline? I am taking the odds that those guys aren’t going to be playing at the levels we’ll need by the time we could have a good enough younger crop of players. Getzlaf has started slowing down, but because he is HOF, elite level player, he’s still very effective. I just think the timing window for everything to come together is just too short.

I’m not sure what LA should be doing differently as far as their rebuild goes. They are not contending anytime soon and are moving on from older players with expiring or soon to be expired contracts that aren’t going to help the team going forward. I also assume that they are going to use their huge excess picks/prospects to bring in players to speed up the rebuild and give Doughty, Kopitar, Brown etc a couple more shots at another Cup. The Kings trading away picks for Gaborik and Regehr worked out because they won Cup. Lombardi missed badly with Lucic and Sekera which I’m sure was a reason why he was eventually fired.

 

 

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2 hours ago, g20topdogg said:

What I think should be the bigger question is what happened to our promising defense and defensive organizational depth? We have no real forward depth and no defensive depth. It's like it just disappeared. This is where BM is at fault. We couldn't just lose it and have nothing to show for it. 

yeah, i've forgotten why we lost Pettersson.  i remember why we shipped Vats, Theo, and Monty (choice of daggers).  

we spent that depth, just not sure what we got in return.  Hank has been fairly good, but not really as impactful as Vats was off and on.  It was either Theo or Manson, and choosing Manson made sense at the time.  Monty apparently was traded due to an attitude problem, one that's followed him.  Failure on both sides, I think. 

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21 minutes ago, Fisix said:

yeah, i've forgotten why we lost Pettersson.  i remember why we shipped Vats, Theo, and Monty (choice of daggers).  

we spent that depth, just not sure what we got in return.  Hank has been fairly good, but not really as impactful as Vats was off and on.  It was either Theo or Manson, and choosing Manson made sense at the time.  Monty apparently was traded due to an attitude problem, one that's followed him.  Failure on both sides, I think. 

I honestly think the ED has hurt us more than we think. In order to keep our defense we let go of a decent prospect (at the time) and he's done well in Vegas. But then BM turns around and trades Vats a little while later. I think that was poor management. We had to spend extra to keep both Manson and Vats. Sure, we would have had to send them someone but it could have been less than what we gave up. Petterson is gone. Now Larsson hasn't panned out too well, so far. Our defense also took a big hit after Yawney (?) left. So it's been a downward spiral and few pieces to show for it. We currently have Holzer as a regular in the lineup. Something that wasn't even considered much during the Bieksa years.... 

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in my dreams we would trade Henrique, Grant, Manson and maybe some like Del Zotto, Miller or Rowney...

with Henrique and Manson we would have at least 2 more first rounder (and other prospects or picks), Grant can give us a 2-3 rounder, the rest a mid to late rounder.

at the deadline the playoff teams are desperately and overpays the players they wants... look at the trades they made till now.... first rounder here, second rounders there...

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1 hour ago, g20topdogg said:

I honestly think the ED has hurt us more than we think. In order to keep our defense we let go of a decent prospect (at the time) and he's done well in Vegas. But then BM turns around and trades Vats a little while later. I think that was poor management. We had to spend extra to keep both Manson and Vats. Sure, we would have had to send them someone but it could have been less than what we gave up. Petterson is gone. Now Larsson hasn't panned out too well, so far. Our defense also took a big hit after Yawney (?) left. So it's been a downward spiral and few pieces to show for it. We currently have Holzer as a regular in the lineup. Something that wasn't even considered much during the Bieksa years.... 

We traded Vats because we had Derek Grant playing 1st line Center for an extended period of time. Bad injuries forced BM’s hand

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I expect the most valuable chips, as far as other teams are concerned, are:

Grantzlaf - He's the kind of player that shines in the playoffs, playing on the 3rd or 4th line.  He's valuable to the Ducks too though, it's a high ask, but I wouldn't move him for less than a high 2nd round pick. So he's probably not moving.

Henrique - For any team making the playoffs trying to stack their roster, he's probably worth a good prospect that won't play in the nhl until next season, and won't be a star for a couple. If Martinez is worth two 2nd round picks, Henrique is worth a 1st and a second at a minimum for teams without the right prospect. 10% chance this happens... again, because it would take another team wanting him more than the Ducks.

Cap space... this is the one I hope happens. Because it means getting a good prospect and/or pick(s) with the bad contract.  I'd guess 20% chance of happening on Sunday or Monday.

There will be interest in Manson and Fowler,  but not for what it would take to get them.  DelZotto and Holzer will get interest, but not much of a return... 5% chance we get an offer that's worth taking.

So, I expect a dull deadline.  Oh well.

 

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Kapanen 

Ceci 

Prospect

2nd-3rd 

for

Manson 

who says no?

i know Ceci is totally awful, but you give Toronto some cap relief for a pick/prospect?

 

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1 hour ago, gorbachav5 said:

I think if you drop the prospect from Toronto's side of the deal and add one of the Ducks' forward prospects, that might get something done.  Or maybe they'd take a guy like Ritchie.

then I would not make the deal: Manson, Ritchie vs Kapanen, 2-3 rounder and Ceci? not good trade for us. Ritchie is the screen man, we need some players like him. he must only stop with this dumb penalties and then he is a good player. we would give them a necessary defender and take a big (and maybe bad, I know Ceci not good enough for judge him) contract with Ceci, so 2-3 rounder and prospect is okay.

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14 hours ago, Sexlaf15 said:

Kapanen 

Ceci 

Prospect

2nd-3rd 

for

Manson 

who says no?

i know Ceci is totally awful, but you give Toronto some cap relief for a pick/prospect?

 

Please tell me there is a companion trade for Dustin Byfuglien, and that GMBM has secured a vial of Cogliano's blood and stem cells from Selanne's knee to rejuvenate Big Buff's ankle and love for the game. Otherwise, this team is going to be so friggen SOFT... 

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