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covid-19 repercussions

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On 7/3/2020 at 6:20 PM, Fisix said:

so.. got tested using a rapid test in Costa Mesa today, scheduled on Wed.  result came back about 15 minutes after a nasal swap (hurt), and i'm negative.

primary point - had to pay out of pocket ($225).  they might have accepted some insurance other than Kaiser.

I heard from a co-worker that Kaiser has a reimbursement procedure for testing performed by outside providers. I don't know if that applies to the rapid tests or just the standard tests that Kaiser performs at its facilities, but maybe check their website.

As far as Canada v. U.S. goes for COVID-19, I know it's not a contest, but it will be interesting to see which approach to the pandemic ends up looking the best in hindsight down the road. Here, there is no national policy so states are pretty much making up their own rules as they go along. Some states are obviously having better results than others, but there are also no complete data sets anywhere because the virus has not run its course yet, and so it's obviously too early to be spiking the football, whether it's country v. country or state v. state, especially if there is no vaccine coming any time soon and we eventually have to rely on this "herd immunity" concept to resume normal lives. For example, here in California they are reporting that we've conducted around 4.8 million tests and have had around 276,000 positive tests so far (2nd in the union according to worldometers.com), with a mortality rate of about 161 per 1 million population (6,373 total). Looking at the reported numbers for Canada (which has a slightly smaller population than California spread over a MUCH larger area), they've have conducted around 2.95 million tests and have had fewer than 106,000 positives, with a mortality rate of about 230 per 1 million population (8,687 total). So is Canada "doing it better" than California? I guess it depends on which metric you look at. They're definitely trending better at this moment in time, but we may not know the entire picture for a while either.

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58 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

They're definitely trending better at this moment in time, but we may not know the entire picture for a while either.

This is it right here. The pandemic is nowhere near over, things could look dramatically different in a year for both countries. Hopefully by then we have a vaccine. There are some promising signs, if everything goes right we could have vaccines later this year (but since nothing in 2020 seems to be going right, I wouldn't hold my breath). I just want everything to get back to normal.

At the moment the number of cases in the US is trending up while Canada is trending down, which is why the NHL decided to base their hubs in Canada. But the US is 50 different governments doing things differently, so places that have completely failed like Florida are dragging down the stats for the rest of the country. In Canada everything is managed differently between each province as well, but there are only 10 provinces (and 3 of them are huge land masses with small populations) so it's harder to have crazy outliers that skew the overall stats I guess.

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Funny how news is posted depending as to who posts it.

While certain news organizations are showing the amounts of new infections they  don't seem to want to post that this country tests way more people than any where else in the world.

Fact that the amount of people dying was the lowest since March 5th . Only 212 people died last posting not sure if that was today or yesterday but to me very important that no matter amount of infections fewer people are dying.

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25 minutes ago, Arvydas Cieminis said:

Funny how news is posted depending as to who posts it.

While certain news organizations are showing the amounts of new infections they  don't seem to want to post that this country tests way more people than any where else in the world.

Fact that the amount of people dying was the lowest since March 5th . Only 212 people died last posting not sure if that was today or yesterday but to me very important that no matter amount of infections fewer people are dying.

True, but daily numbers don't mean as much. As you can see from this chart, there's an obvious trend of the reported numbers going down on the weekend and back up mid-week. Not surprising that the numbers are low at the end of a 3-day holiday weekend. The ones who are collecting and reporting the data are at the beach. :P  Of course, when Saturday, Sunday and Mondays numbers are all reported at once on Tuesday, the media will lose their minds, but what else is new....

image.png.f966f5353cf74b6a2172df60cd4c7c0f.png

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2 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

True, but daily numbers don't mean as much. As you can see from this chart, there's an obvious trend of the reported numbers going down on the weekend and back up mid-week. Not surprising that the numbers are low at the end of a 3-day holiday weekend. The ones who are collecting and reporting the data are at the beach. :P  Of course, when Saturday, Sunday and Mondays numbers are all reported at once on Tuesday, the media will lose their minds, but what else is new....

image.png.f966f5353cf74b6a2172df60cd4c7c0f.png

exactly this. it's a delayed report, so it's all about the trends and not the numbers of the day.

Also the longer people are surviving after being infected the more we are seeing the longer lasting effects of it. The impact of being infected and surviving is also still very much not understood.

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9 hours ago, gotchabari said:

We can also get a test for free, unless we request a different type of test like this one.  So no need to bash the country.  The fact that we're testing so much more than others already has us being bashed (a double edged sword).

The country is handling this very poorly.  Everyone should be tested, and they should have made testing available a lot sooner.  And even now, when it's supposedly free and widely available, it's still difficult, as I can attest personally.

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11 hours ago, gotchabari said:

We can also get a test for free, unless we request a different type of test like this one.  So no need to bash the country.  The fact that we're testing so much more than others already has us being bashed (a double edged sword).

so, the word "can" is doing a lot of work there.  i can get a free test... theoretically, but Kaiser says not through them, and the free ones you can reach online are all booked solid for more than 4 days from when i tried, which makes it sort of useless.  

so, i can pay out of pocket, or I can wait maybe a week before i can schedule a free test (which might be a week out once i schedule).  not great.  not in socal, anyway, not right now.

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8 hours ago, Fisix said:

Yeah, I would sorta expect there to be a bunch of positives on the way into camps though as there will be a lot of asymptomatic cases out there. Obviously these players will need to quarantine but hopefully they will all be fine. It's possible for young, healthy people to get serious complications but unlikely. If players start testing positive once play actually starts and they are all inside the bubble, then we have a problem.

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2 hours ago, nieder said:

Yeah, I would sorta expect there to be a bunch of positives on the way into camps though as there will be a lot of asymptomatic cases out there. Obviously these players will need to quarantine but hopefully they will all be fine. It's possible for young, healthy people to get serious complications but unlikely. If players start testing positive once play actually starts and they are all inside the bubble, then we have a problem.

 Of course we do....That leads to one important thing....we will our Ducks and 6 NHL Teams and other sports leagues can do to help...flatten curve or whatever in lessen the Covid 19 pandemic. Clearly I know that this RTP is hot button issue on where I am from and it's not just Hockey I hear.

DuckPride 4ever

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12 hours ago, gorbachav5 said:

The country is handling this very poorly.  Everyone should be tested, and they should have made testing available a lot sooner.  And even now, when it's supposedly free and widely available, it's still difficult, as I can attest personally.

Probably because we're trying to handle it like a country, which would be the equivalent of the EU running it for all of their countries.  this should be state in most cases, regional in cases of small states that can pool together.  That would be more manageable and similar in size and population to most countries that are handling it somewhat better.

That being said, our testing rate exceeds the EU and the daily death rate is about half presently.  I'm not certain why we're taking the beating in the media comparatively.

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1 hour ago, gotchabari said:

Probably because we're trying to handle it like a country, which would be the equivalent of the EU running it for all of their countries.  this should be state in most cases, regional in cases of small states that can pool together.  That would be more manageable and similar in size and population to most countries that are handling it somewhat better.

That being said, our testing rate exceeds the EU and the daily death rate is about half presently.  I'm not certain why we're taking the beating in the media comparatively.

Probably because deaths are not the only metric to be concerned about. There have been cases of people battling this for months and having other complications caused by the virus, i.e. blood clots necessitating amputation, etc. Also, even if the deaths aren't skyrocketing due to Covid, the hospitalizations in a number of places are very high, which is going to have a trickle down effect onto other people that need hospitalization for non-Covid reasons. I was just reading that there are a number of ICUs in Florida that are already full, which is bad news.

However, the stats fluctuate each day due to different methods of reporting, but I am not seeing anywhere that says the daily death rate in the US is currently half of the EU. Where are you getting this stat? Genuinely curious, not trying to accuse you of anything. For example if you look at the stats on Worldometer for the last 3 days, we have USA with 1,106 deaths over the past 3 days and 1,061 in Europe over the same time frame. So the death rates look pretty similar right now. Considering the EU population is twice as big as the US I would expect their daily death rate to be a lot higher simply because of their larger population as a whole.

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2 hours ago, gotchabari said:

Probably because we're trying to handle it like a country, which would be the equivalent of the EU running it for all of their countries.  this should be state in most cases, regional in cases of small states that can pool together.  That would be more manageable and similar in size and population to most countries that are handling it somewhat better.

That being said, our testing rate exceeds the EU and the daily death rate is about half presently.  I'm not certain why we're taking the beating in the media comparatively.

we haven't been trying to handle it like a country at all, not at the beginning, not now, not in between. 

aside from that, i agree with you in that a state should be the liaison for any federal efforts, and the state should probably be managing all the smaller population sinks, but the feds should be handling (supporting with resources, regulatory cover, etc.) the major population sinks - basically the counties where a state of emergency has been (or should be) instituted.  and, the feds need to have a presence in this, at least because states by default aren't allowed to do things that degrade interstate or international commerce/travel.  we've had the barest of minimum federal efforts on that front.

testing rates and death rates - just a reminder that "Europe," in all the websites i've seen, includes Russia, who are at the very least reporting very, very unbelievable death data.  if their death data is true, then i'm on board with investigating whether Russia played some hand in this whole covid debacle.  

point being, remove Russia from the Europe data.  if you do that, cumulative deaths are USA at 133k and Europe at 180k, but with the majority of Europe's deaths occurring prior to the peak in US deaths (to date).

i haven't been able to find a good graph on daily new deaths for Europe vs. US on the same graph.  It's totally out there somewhere, but my websites (ones with constantly updated data) don't seem to plot them together.  

 

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5 hours ago, nieder said:

Yeah, I would sorta expect there to be a bunch of positives on the way into camps though as there will be a lot of asymptomatic cases out there. Obviously these players will need to quarantine but hopefully they will all be fine. It's possible for young, healthy people to get serious complications but unlikely. If players start testing positive once play actually starts and they are all inside the bubble, then we have a problem.

For sure. Bunch of young, wealthy athletes in the prime years of their lives - it's reasonable to assume that there are more than a handful that haven't been sheltering in place since March. We'll see what happens when they have to quarantine as a condition of their employment.

btw, nieder, do all people entering Canada still have to quarantine for 14 days per the public health order? If so, I wonder how that will impact the players going to the hub cities from out of country. Are they all going to have to sit in their hotel rooms for 14 days before they can start skating again?      

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6 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

For sure. Bunch of young, wealthy athletes in the prime years of their lives - it's reasonable to assume that there are more than a handful that haven't been sheltering in place since March. We'll see what happens when they have to quarantine as a condition of their employment.

btw, nieder, do all people entering Canada still have to quarantine for 14 days per the public health order? If so, I wonder how that will impact the players going to the hub cities from out of country. Are they all going to have to sit in their hotel rooms for 14 days before they can start skating again?      

Yes, you have to quarantine at home for 14 days when entering the country. However the government gave an exemption to the NHL because they are going to be staying in their own bubble away from the general public and the fact that they will be testing themselves. So they don't need to worry about it. But like you say, there are a lot of young guys coming to these hub cities. Let's hope they all stay isolated from the general public and don't venture outside their bubble.

I do wonder how it works with servers and hotel staff etc. that will have contact with the players. I am guessing they don't have to quarantine right? So there's possible community transmission right there.

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10 hours ago, nieder said:

Yes, you have to quarantine at home for 14 days when entering the country. However the government gave an exemption to the NHL because they are going to be staying in their own bubble away from the general public and the fact that they will be testing themselves. So they don't need to worry about it. But like you say, there are a lot of young guys coming to these hub cities. Let's hope they all stay isolated from the general public and don't venture outside their bubble.

I do wonder how it works with servers and hotel staff etc. that will have contact with the players. I am guessing they don't have to quarantine right? So there's possible community transmission right there.

That's thing NHL and NHLPA should be looking at to prevent this stuff...Also it would be wise for them to have these staff be isolated as well.

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Hamonic first one to opt out of the tournament. I think the deadline is Monday for players to make that decision. It’ll be interesting to see if anyone else follows him out the door between now and then. Certainly possible that others want to Opt out, but just didn’t want to be the first guy to walk out.

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9 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

Hamonic first one to opt out of the tournament. I think the deadline is Monday for players to make that decision. It’ll be interesting to see if anyone else follows him out the door between now and then. Certainly possible that others want to Opt out, but just didn’t want to be the first guy to walk out.

It should no surprise to us but also let's be very honest...This is NOT the Stanley Cup Playoffs...It's One time only Tourney that has 24 teams battling who will hoist the Stanley Cup. Let's be Happy our Ducks are not involved in this.....Oct9th and 10th will be the countdown for us for the NHL Draft and Dec1st for Ducks 28th NHL Season.

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Good conversations on the CCP virus. My 2 cents: How can the US have hundred of thousands more CCP Virus related deaths in the world when we have one of the best healthcare systems in the world bar none and we are still tripling and doubling up on countries like India and Brazil who have massive populations with India having almost more than China at 1.353 billion??? This tells me that the US States are purposely inflating the numbers. There are actually articles online with doctors even thinking this is the case. I think the hospitals are labeling as many deaths as COVID-19 related when its not the case and making it political while keeping the American people in constant fear. Fear is how the powerful stay in power and the media is all about it as well too since they love to sensationalize everything 

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10 hours ago, RobD360 said:

Good conversations on the CCP virus. My 2 cents: How can the US have hundred of thousands more CCP Virus related deaths in the world when we have one of the best healthcare systems in the world bar none and we are still tripling and doubling up on countries like India and Brazil who have massive populations with India having almost more than China at 1.353 billion??? This tells me that the US States are purposely inflating the numbers. There are actually articles online with doctors even thinking this is the case. I think the hospitals are labeling as many deaths as COVID-19 related when its not the case and making it political while keeping the American people in constant fear. Fear is how the powerful stay in power and the media is all about it as well too since they love to sensationalize everything 

Or maybe...we don't have the best healthcare system in the world...

Sorry, but doctors aren't doing that. The only doctors that have any political agenda...are the doctors that claim other doctors have a political agenda. I have a lot of friends in the healthcare system from nurses to doctors...so I've been trying to stay up to date from them and hear what's going on...and they've seen those conspiracy theories...and it's just absolutely ludicrous to say that's what is happening.

It's all fun (well, also dumb) and games thinking about the NHL conspiracies against whomever with refs and the draft or whatever...'cause it's harmless. But it's another level when you have millions of people doing their best to keep everyone alive while a brand new virus sweeps the country to say they DON'T have your best interest...not only is it incredibly insulting as they sacrifice their life for others...it can actually lead to direct physical harm and more death.

So, what...you're saying these surge of deaths in our country these past 4 months aren't COVID-19 related...and we're just seeing a surge of respiratory deaths, pneumonia deaths, blood clot related deaths like stroke and heart attack, kidney failure related deaths...and...it's just a coincidence?

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40 minutes ago, Jasoaks said:

Or maybe...we don't have the best healthcare system in the world...

Sorry, but doctors aren't doing that. The only doctors that have any political agenda...are the doctors that claim other doctors have a political agenda. I have a lot of friends in the healthcare system from nurses to doctors...so I've been trying to stay up to date from them and hear what's going on...and they've seen those conspiracy theories...and it's just absolutely ludicrous to say that's what is happening.

It's all fun (well, also dumb) and games thinking about the NHL conspiracies against whomever with refs and the draft or whatever...'cause it's harmless. But it's another level when you have millions of people doing their best to keep everyone alive while a brand new virus sweeps the country to say they DON'T have your best interest...not only is it incredibly insulting as they sacrifice their life for others...it can actually lead to direct physical harm and more death.

So, what...you're saying these surge of deaths in our country these past 4 months aren't COVID-19 related...and we're just seeing a surge of respiratory deaths, pneumonia deaths, blood clot related deaths like stroke and heart attack, kidney failure related deaths...and...it's just a coincidence?

I'm not going to get into an argument, but #'s are being inflated. ANY death that occurs (heart attack, stroke, accident, etc.) and the individual also happens to test positive for covid, it's counted as a covid death. From the CDC, "use information from Covid-19 testing, but also allow for deaths to be listed as "presumed" or "probable" Covid-19 based on symptoms and the best clinical judgement of the person filling out the death certificate." 

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58 minutes ago, Jasoaks said:

Or maybe...we don't have the best healthcare system in the world...

Sorry, but doctors aren't doing that. The only doctors that have any political agenda...are the doctors that claim other doctors have a political agenda. I have a lot of friends in the healthcare system from nurses to doctors...so I've been trying to stay up to date from them and hear what's going on...and they've seen those conspiracy theories...and it's just absolutely ludicrous to say that's what is happening.

It's all fun (well, also dumb) and games thinking about the NHL conspiracies against whomever with refs and the draft or whatever...'cause it's harmless. But it's another level when you have millions of people doing their best to keep everyone alive while a brand new virus sweeps the country to say they DON'T have your best interest...not only is it incredibly insulting as they sacrifice their life for others...it can actually lead to direct physical harm and more death.

So, what...you're saying these surge of deaths in our country these past 4 months aren't COVID-19 related...and we're just seeing a surge of respiratory deaths, pneumonia deaths, blood clot related deaths like stroke and heart attack, kidney failure related deaths...and...it's just a coincidence?

I’m a firm believer that the US is one of the top leaders in medicine and healthcare. We have the best doctors and nurses from all over the world here so yes our death count for actual CCP virus related deaths should be lower when compared to other countries.

dont get me wrong. This virus is nasty and is real but to the extent of what the mainstream media says it is?? I don’t think so. 
 

lets ask ourselves, if this thing is so crazy rampant and “surging” everywhere. How many people do you or your friends or their friends know who actually got this? I for one have polled everyone I know and they have asked their friends and so on and not a single person... none. Again, this is not to say that this thing is fake or not happening I’m just saying that when I look at the numbers and compare it to all the people I’ve spoken to which includes folks in Mexico and a couple of other states things don’t add up. 
 

also about people in government sincerely caring about the welfare of its people compared to power grabs, they will ALWAYS choose their own personal agenda. There is no doubt about that in my mind. 
 

what I’m saying here is that we need to look at everything going on around us and question it with our own eyes and our own minds especially when there is TON of misinformation out there intended to keep people in fear. This has always been the tactic of those in power to stay in power.
 

Also, no disrespect to anyone here, my fellow duck fans just keep an open mind. I know there are lots of intelligent people on these boards....and my hope is that everyone stays safe and healthy. 

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11 minutes ago, dukitup said:

I'm not going to get into an argument, but #'s are being inflated. ANY death that occurs (heart attack, stroke, accident, etc.) and the individual also happens to test positive for covid, it's counted as a covid death. From the CDC, "use information from Covid-19 testing, but also allow for deaths to be listed as "presumed" or "probable" Covid-19 based on symptoms and the best clinical judgement of the person filling out the death certificate." 

Exactly

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On 7/6/2020 at 10:50 PM, Fisix said:

so, the word "can" is doing a lot of work there.  i can get a free test... theoretically, but Kaiser says not through them, and the free ones you can reach online are all booked solid for more than 4 days from when i tried, which makes it sort of useless.  

so, i can pay out of pocket, or I can wait maybe a week before i can schedule a free test (which might be a week out once i schedule).  not great.  not in socal, anyway, not right now.

Well, we kind of have 320,000,000 people.  We're still 2nd in the world (behind China if you believe them) in tests completed per capita, so perhaps there is just something to be said about the time it takes to get it done. 

But for those who say we aren't testing as much as others, it is simply not factual.  It's hard to cut through the noise.

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12 hours ago, RobD360 said:

Good conversations on the CCP virus. My 2 cents: How can the US have hundred of thousands more CCP Virus related deaths in the world when we have one of the best healthcare systems in the world...

Population.  Per capita, we still trail Sweden, Spain, Italy, and the UK among others who allegedly have awesome public health care.

On the whole, when compared to the EU (which is a more direct comparison in terms of population, geographical size, and metropolitan areas), we are also doing somewhat better in deaths per capita.  Similarly in the EU, there are definite hot spots and cold spots.  Same here.  If you take away NYC, our case and death count is darn near world class.

A lot of regions (either state or country) both benefitted from or succumbed to both circumstances and luck.  It doesn't seem related to healthcare.

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I had this whole big post, I don't care about it anymore lol so I kept just the last half

1 hour ago, RobD360 said:

dont get me wrong. This virus is nasty and is real but to the extent of what the mainstream media says it is?? I don’t think so.

Well I'm glad to see you agree with that. Yeah, the media doesn't help much, they tend to enjoy sensationalization and annoying headlines. But they also are literally just reporting what they are hearing/seeing (at times). I think the media as a whole gets a pretty bad rap as people don't seem to understand the difference between an article that is an opinion or an analysis and one that is just reporting what is happening. But the news likes to blur those lines, anyway. Also, I've noticed so often people tend to misunderstand what is being reported.

(it's not letting me do any more quoting lol)

So, I actually do know a few people who have had it very much affect their lives. Friends roommates (though somehow she didn't get it), friends coworkers...friends in Chicago, New York, Costa Mesa, Ohio. Not anyone who had it personally though. Not counting hospital friends who see it more often than probably any of us. Another friend has immediate family in Iran and it's ravaging through her family over there. I believe there's a fallacy for not believing something just 'cause you don't see it/experience it. I can't remember what it's called. It goes both ways though. We clearly are experiencing different perspectives on it.

And I appreciate your ending sentiments and maybe I went too quickly on the attack. I also mean no disrespect. I think it's good for people to keep an open mind and question things. But that can definitely go too far at times I would say.

Edited by Jasoaks
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15 minutes ago, Jasoaks said:

I believe there's a fallacy for not believing something just 'cause you don't see it/experience it. I can't remember what it's called. It goes both ways though. We clearly are experiencing different perspectives on it.

Anecdotal fallacy with a little of McNamara's Fallacy applied on top of it.

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32 minutes ago, Jasoaks said:

I had this whole big post, I don't care about it anymore lol so I kept just the last half

Well I'm glad to see you agree with that. Yeah, the media doesn't help much, they tend to enjoy sensationalization and annoying headlines. But they also are literally just reporting what they are hearing/seeing (at times). I think the media as a whole gets a pretty bad rap as people don't seem to understand the difference between an article that is an opinion or an analysis and one that is just reporting what is happening. But the news likes to blur those lines, anyway. Also, I've noticed so often people tend to misunderstand what is being reported.

(it's not letting me do any more quoting lol)

So, I actually do know a few people who have had it very much affect their lives. Friends roommates (though somehow she didn't get it), friends coworkers...friends in Chicago, New York, Costa Mesa, Ohio. Not anyone who had it personally though. Not counting hospital friends who see it more often than probably any of us. Another friend has immediate family in Iran and it's ravaging through her family over there. I believe there's a fallacy for not believing something just 'cause you don't see it/experience it. I can't remember what it's called. It goes both ways though. We clearly are experiencing different perspectives on it.

And I appreciate your ending sentiments and maybe I went too quickly on the attack. I also mean no disrespect. I think it's good for people to keep an open mind and question things. But that can definitely go too far at times I would say.

🙂

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Anyone not surprise some Players opt out of the Stanley Cup Tourney?....Well it's important to see this considering Players like us have concerns and we know this Tourney which is NOT a Playoffs is what is it is...Tourney. Whoever wins the Stanley Cup will have Asterisk added to it. Some I hear will not recognize the Stanley Cup Champion as well.

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