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Bob Murray's Media Blitz - June '20

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I haven't heard the audio yet, so I'm just going off this summary:
https://www.nhl.com/ducks/news/ducks-gm-murray-recaps-season-discusses-nhl-draft-lottery-and-more/c-317093818

I have to say, if Murray is going to award ice time based on performance, heavily, we're going to end up in the Dehydrated Donkey Dungter again.  We'll have Getz out there for 50 minutes each game and none of the kids will have a chance to develop.  You clearly have to reward good play, but a lot of the team just isn't veteran enough to base their TOI on performance, not on a long term basis, not if we want them to actually ramp up.  

The boxing of my opinion is a player like Nick Ritchie.  He was given too much time with the team, frankly.  So, there's a place to reduce TOI, and to remove from the lineup (by trade or demotion, whatever), but not as a night by night reevaluation of a bunch of rooks that we're going to be relying on for the near future. 

I may not be conveying this perfectly.  What BM said sounds like old thinking, that'll produce antiquated results, results we won't be happy with.  I think he needs to figure out a way to positively reinforce good play without having lopsided TsOI for our lines/players, and while continuing productive development of every player we have.  If that means making earlier decisions about whether we want to keep a player around, then so be it.  Better for us, better for them.

If a rook that kicks ass in the AHL isn't making it in the NHL, then there's shared fault, and the burden shifts more on the team staff/admin when that failure to develop hits substantially all the rooks (what I took from BM's comments).

More later.

Aside - if someone has a link to the audio, post it here or DM me if we can't post it.  Thanks!

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some interesting quotes:

"We have three picks in the top-36 as of right now."

"Bill has been excellent with me. He helped me a lot with the Kodie Curran thing. He's helped me with some other things we're planning going forward that we need to do as an organization."

"When Brian Burke and I came here in 2005-06, we had just gone through that lockout. That experience is valuable right now because you know certain types of players are going to struggle going forward unless you do something."

"There are lots of ideas. The players are going to have to buy into some things. I'm going to be very disappointed if some don't. They're going to have to buy in."

"You can't recreate a Boston, Tampa Bay or Washington power play. We can't try to do that because we don't have those people at this point. We're getting some. We're starting to draft some of those high-skilled people. For now, we're going to have to do it a bit different."
 

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7 hours ago, Fisix said:

some interesting quotes:

"We have three picks in the top-36 as of right now."

"Bill has been excellent with me. He helped me a lot with the Kodie Curran thing. He's helped me with some other things we're planning going forward that we need to do as an organization."

"When Brian Burke and I came here in 2005-06, we had just gone through that lockout. That experience is valuable right now because you know certain types of players are going to struggle going forward unless you do something."

"There are lots of ideas. The players are going to have to buy into some things. I'm going to be very disappointed if some don't. They're going to have to buy in."

"You can't recreate a Boston, Tampa Bay or Washington power play. We can't try to do that because we don't have those people at this point. We're getting some. We're starting to draft some of those high-skilled people. For now, we're going to have to do it a bit different."
 

Makes me wonder which player Bob is calling out...However it won't stop some asking it's time to Bob Murray to move on....Important Ducks get a New Voice at the GM Level.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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5 hours ago, MooseDuck said:

Makes me wonder which player Bob is calling out...However it won't stop some asking it's time to Bob Murray to move on....Important Ducks get a New Voice at the GM Level.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

I think he talking about coaches too. Specifically assistants running special units. Sounds like they were being to soft with the kids “letting them get away with murder”. 

 

I too want to hear audio. What’s his tone. A lot of this is repeated over the years, but I’m picking up on more anger. He is cussing in the interview. Not professional imo but shows he has had enough.

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8 minutes ago, ike-1 said:

I think he talking about coaches too. Specifically assistants running special units. Sounds like they were being to soft with the kids “letting them get away with murder”. 

 

I too want to hear audio. What’s his tone. A lot of this is repeated over the years, but I’m picking up on more anger. He is cussing in the interview. Not professional imo but shows he has had enough.

Well I am losing patience with Bob and I can't blame but he needs to take a hard line with this team....It's important they make a trade or sign someone...Cause what is needed is to send message to Young Guns....who seem to coast alot.

DuckPride 4ever

mooseDuck

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I wondering who we'll be able to resign, and who not.  did we lock down any free agents yet?

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13 hours ago, Fisix said:

I wondering who we'll be able to resign, and who not.  did we lock down any free agents yet?

Unless RFA players with arbitration rights hold out, I don't see us having a problem signing anyone. Miller won't be a problem, it's up to him if he wants to return or not.

As far as signing free agents, why? They usually sign for too much money, and or, too much term. I could understand pursuing one if we were a borderline Cup team, but not when we're a borderline playoff one. But that's my opinion. UFA's never come cheap imo.

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5 hours ago, dukitup said:

Unless RFA players with arbitration rights hold out, I don't see us having a problem signing anyone. Miller won't be a problem, it's up to him if he wants to return or not.

As far as signing free agents, why? They usually sign for too much money, and or, too much term. I could understand pursuing one if we were a borderline Cup team, but not when we're a borderline playoff one. But that's my opinion. UFA's never come cheap imo.

Yeah I absolutely see your point...but if there's a great UFA available -- like Pietrangelo -- borderline Cup team or not you should take the swing if you need a player in that position. It's better to lock them up now than to hope when you ARE a borderline Cup team that someone good is available. I'd rather sign than trade right now for a great player. We still can't say for SURE who of the kids is gonna really work out. But it's getting closer.

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2 hours ago, Jasoaks said:

Yeah I absolutely see your point...but if there's a great UFA available -- like Pietrangelo -- borderline Cup team or not you should take the swing if you need a player in that position. It's better to lock them up now than to hope when you ARE a borderline Cup team that someone good is available. I'd rather sign than trade right now for a great player. We still can't say for SURE who of the kids is gonna really work out. But it's getting closer.

Right. And in the comments by GMBSBM he said we were too young, especially with the injuries. We wanted a ‘youth movement’. My money is on him picking up more veterans this summer to plug the gaps. Maybe even AHL veterans to give us options for call ups. Don’t tip the scale sort of thing. And he has made comments that suggest he is going to try and make a splash with defense either via trade or FA. But we have been let down by such promises before.

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22 hours ago, Fisix said:

I wondering who we'll be able to resign, and who not.  did we lock down any free agents yet?

The only players of note that need new contracts are Terry, Milano and Larsson, all of whom are RFA's. Only Milano has arbitration rights and none of them are going to command major money and the Ducks have just over $8 mil in cap space for next season. Not sure when free agency is going to occur, but the Ducks added to their LHD recently by signing Kodie Curran. I think the bigger question is going to be who Murray is likely to trade. The LHD spot currently has Lindholm, Fowler, Djoos, Larsson, Guhle, Mahura, Benoit and Curran.

2 hours ago, Jasoaks said:

Yeah I absolutely see your point...but if there's a great UFA available -- like Pietrangelo -- borderline Cup team or not you should take the swing if you need a player in that position. It's better to lock them up now than to hope when you ARE a borderline Cup team that someone good is available. I'd rather sign than trade right now for a great player. We still can't say for SURE who of the kids is gonna really work out. But it's getting closer.

Personally, I'd be much more willing to take a swing on a Pietrangelo or even Tyson Barrie if the Ducks were closer to contending or at least had established the next core wave of players. Without that foundation in place first, I don't think you can ultimately build a championship team. The young guys struggled for the most part last year and Zegras still hasn't even played a pro game. We should land another very good player (fingers crossed for a lottery pick) this year but still need more blue chip, high ceiling prospects more than anything, IMO. If Murray is under a mandate to try and get the team back in the playoffs next year then adding, say Pietrangelo, and then trading Lindholm to bring in competent scorer would be a route to go.

If Murray wants to make a noticeable UFA move this offseason, then I'd kick the tires on Byfuglien or Shattenkirk (again). Both guys would be instant boosts to the PP if nothing else and shouldn't be outrageously expensive in term or money.

 

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i guess i find it weird that everyone has forgotten about Gudbranson.  To my knowledge, he's not signed for 2021.  I like him, and I want him to return.

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38 minutes ago, Fisix said:

i guess i find it weird that everyone has forgotten about Gudbranson.  To my knowledge, he's not signed for 2021.  I like him, and I want him to return.

Yeah, he's signed through next season and it's possible the Ducks could re-sign him, especially given the lack of RHD. His game picked up as the season went along but then got hurt and he was out for the last month of the season. So, I think that plays into it. Money won't be an issue as the Ducks should have more than enough cap space going forward ($37 mil in 2021 as of now). I think a lot hinges on not only how well the team plays but also whether they are able to draft Drysdale. If Gudbranson is playing well next year and the Ducks are still out of the playoff picture then I think he's an easy TDL candidate, but then again so could any number of players lol.

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let's be honest here, as long as Bob is in control the Ducks will not be a contender. He handed terrible contracts and we lost because of it. He did it in Chicago once they let him go the became a better team. we have some good young talent in the pipeline if we want to win we need provide leadership on and of the ice. As I see it it does no exorcist.    

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17 hours ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

Yeah, he's signed through next season and it's possible the Ducks could re-sign him, especially given the lack of RHD. His game picked up as the season went along but then got hurt and he was out for the last month of the season. So, I think that plays into it. Money won't be an issue as the Ducks should have more than enough cap space going forward ($37 mil in 2021 as of now). I think a lot hinges on not only how well the team plays but also whether they are able to draft Drysdale. If Gudbranson is playing well next year and the Ducks are still out of the playoff picture then I think he's an easy TDL candidate, but then again so could any number of players lol.

Hakanpaa got a 1-year one way extension on May 5th and it sounds like GMBM thinks he is starting to figure how to play on North American ice. If Hakanpaa can play his way into a bottom or even middle pair RHD spot for the Ducks next season, things could get interesting, because then they'd have three 28/29-year-old giants on the right side in Manson, Gudbranson and Hakanpaa. Guddy is a little younger Manson, will be making $1.45M less than Manson in salary next season, and will likely come in at a lower AAV than Manson's current $4.1M on an extension too. And Manson has been the one rumored to get the biggest return in a trade. So maybe Gudbranson isn't the one they should be shopping next season if/when they fall out of the playoff picture.... :ph34r:    

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i could see Toronto focusing on a d-man like Manson or Gbud.  they have such ridiculous offensive... potential, but can't get one over with their defense.  i guess the question will be how much are they willing to give to get a Pronger-sized d-man for next year?

their caphit is still crazy.  it would be incredible if we could get Marner down here to play with... TT?  and maybe MaxC?

the king's caphit is ALSO crazy, but for opposite reasons. 

i wonder if the kings are going to sit and sell another season - this next season sounds like it could go in the Dehydrated Donkey Dungter pretty easily, so it might make sense, biz wise, to just make sure nothing important can get snagged in the expansion draft.  won't make their fans happy, but no-one will care if the season gets shut down in November (or earlier).

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also - i misread capfriendly on Gbud - I thought his contract was up and he needed to be resigned to be on the team next season.  my bad, thanks for the reminder.

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3 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

Hakanpaa got a 1-year one way extension on May 5th and it sounds like GMBM thinks he is starting to figure how to play on North American ice. If Hakanpaa can play his way into a bottom or even middle pair RHD spot for the Ducks next season, things could get interesting, because then they'd have three 28/29-year-old giants on the right side in Manson, Gudbranson and Hakanpaa. Guddy is a little younger Manson, will be making $1.45M less than Manson in salary next season, and will likely come in at a lower AAV than Manson's current $4.1M on an extension too. And Manson has been the one rumored to get the biggest return in a trade. So maybe Gudbranson isn't the one they should be shopping next season if/when they fall out of the playoff picture.... :ph34r:    

I actually forgot about Hakanpaa lol. Makes sense that Murray is going to see if he can be a suitable on the right side. Still think it is a gigantic IF that's he becomes a viable multi-year option but there's no risk to it. I don't see the Ducks keeping both Manson and Gudbranson going forward though. Don't think Murray will spend money on both and if Manson can fetch a nice return then all the better. I'm just anxious to see who gets shipped out.

1 hour ago, Fisix said:

i could see Toronto focusing on a d-man like Manson or Gbud.  they have such ridiculous offensive... potential, but can't get one over with their defense.  i guess the question will be how much are they willing to give to get a Pronger-sized d-man for next year?

their caphit is still crazy.  it would be incredible if we could get Marner down here to play with... TT?  and maybe MaxC?

the king's caphit is ALSO crazy, but for opposite reasons. 

i wonder if the kings are going to sit and sell another season - this next season sounds like it could go in the Dehydrated Donkey Dungter pretty easily, so it might make sense, biz wise, to just make sure nothing important can get snagged in the expansion draft.  won't make their fans happy, but no-one will care if the season gets shut down in November (or earlier).

I think that the Kings have the assets to accelerate their rebuild quite a bit next year and that they will be aggressive in the offseason. If they continue to struggle then I think Carter and/or Quick could get moved but I'd be surprised if they sit back again and not try to make another run with Kopitar, Doughty and Brown while they still can. They also won their last 7 games before their season ended 😕

Toronto doesn't have their first round pick this year which would be a must for me (or 2021's 1st) if we are giving up Manson unless perhaps we get Nylander. 

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21 hours ago, Joker8 said:

let's be honest here, as long as Bob is in control the Ducks will not be a contender. He handed terrible contracts and we lost because of it. He did it in Chicago once they let him go the became a better team. we have some good young talent in the pipeline if we want to win we need provide leadership on and of the ice. As I see it it does no exorcist.    

They recently had 6 straight playoff appearances including 2 trips to the Western Conference Finals. One of which they were up 3 games to 2 and should have gone on to win. Murray put together some good teams. They also finished last in the division in 2011-2012 before turning things around, so Bob has already been in this situation before. There's plenty to be critical of Murray about but there's no real evidence to back up your assertion that the Ducks will not be a contender with him in control.

In saying that, it seems like every year he comes out and throws players, the leadership, the coaching under the bus. At what point does this fall back on him? I would have liked to see a fresh start this last off season with a new GM and new coach. 

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On 6/9/2020 at 11:20 PM, BombaysTripleDeke said:

Yeah, he's signed through next season and it's possible the Ducks could re-sign him, especially given the lack of RHD. His game picked up as the season went along but then got hurt and he was out for the last month of the season. So, I think that plays into it. Money won't be an issue as the Ducks should have more than enough cap space going forward ($37 mil in 2021 as of now). I think a lot hinges on not only how well the team plays but also whether they are able to draft Drysdale. If Gudbranson is playing well next year and the Ducks are still out of the playoff picture then I think he's an easy TDL candidate, but then again so could any number of players lol.

Gudbranson could be a solid third pairing guy on a contender. If we are expecting him to play top-4 minutes then this team is not very good.

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1 hour ago, nieder said:

They recently had 6 straight playoff appearances including 2 trips to the Western Conference Finals. One of which they were up 3 games to 2 and should have gone on to win. Murray put together some good teams. They also finished last in the division in 2011-2012 before turning things around, so Bob has already been in this situation before. There's plenty to be critical of Murray about but there's no real evidence to back up your assertion that the Ducks will not be a contender with him in control.

In saying that, it seems like every year he comes out and throws players, the leadership, the coaching under the bus. At what point does this fall back on him? I would have liked to see a fresh start this last off season with a new GM and new coach. 

Yeah, Murray has put the Ducks in a position to at least make the playoffs and have a couple of competitive runs for most of his tenure. He does deserve credit for that. I think the huge difference from 2012 is that he doesn’t have two all-world players in their primes rely on and now actually has to go through the pains of getting them and rebuilding the team. 

1 hour ago, nieder said:

Gudbranson could be a solid third pairing guy on a contender. If we are expecting him to play top-4 minutes then this team is not very good.

Agreed. Or if the other 3 defensemen are insanely good like when Chicago had Keith, Seabrook and Hjarlmasson Lol. 

Edited by BombaysTripleDeke

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1 hour ago, nieder said:

Gudbranson could be a solid third pairing guy on a contender. If we are expecting him to play top-4 minutes then this team is not very good.

You are suggesting Ducks should get another D-man va Trade or FA signing....also when did Bob became Bod?.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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3 hours ago, nieder said:

They recently had 6 straight playoff appearances including 2 trips to the Western Conference Finals. One of which they were up 3 games to 2 and should have gone on to win. Murray put together some good teams. They also finished last in the division in 2011-2012 before turning things around, so Bob has already been in this situation before. There's plenty to be critical of Murray about but there's no real evidence to back up your assertion that the Ducks will not be a contender with him in control.

In saying that, it seems like every year he comes out and throws players, the leadership, the coaching under the bus. At what point does this fall back on him? I would have liked to see a fresh start this last off season with a new GM and new coach. 

Almost doesn't count I guess I have high standards wanting to win the cup again.  

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The thing about Murray and possibly partially ownership, we always seems to go cheap at the deadline. Where we could have had a great player that could have easily put us over the top, but do to budgetary reasons or an unwillingness to pay a price we always settle for second or third rate players. As well as the case when we almost got Kessler at the deadline but didn’t get him until the draft. Had we got him at the deadline, we could have won that year. Why? Because of some unknown aspect of the trade that was an ‘overpayment’ in the eye of Murray. How has the team been since? Dwindling. We missed that window for what, an extra third? And mid tier prospect. Not well played...in hindsight. Sometimes you have to pay to play. I understand not selling the future, but what good is the future if we have to settle for second best. It doesn’t seem to have paid off has it, only perhaps prolonged the inevitable.

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5 hours ago, nieder said:

Gudbranson could be a solid third pairing guy on a contender. If we are expecting him to play top-4 minutes then this team is not very good.

I respectfully disagree. I thought he was pretty good this season playing top-4 minutes, all things considered. He had positive possession numbers despite having the highest D-zone start % and some pretty poor possession forwards playing in front of him, and I also found his game very complimentary to both 4 and 47 (when they were healthy). Meanwhile, Manson has really struggled the past 2+ seasons and we all saw how truly awful that Fowler-Manson experiment turned out. I'd prefer to keep both guys because I think 4-6 and 47-42 would still be a very good top-4 on a team with a better forward group, but if we're picking only one of Manson or Gudbranson to play a top-4 role here for the next 2-3 seasons, Guddy's got my vote right now based on his play this past season and how badly Manson has struggled recently.  

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4 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

I respectfully disagree. I thought he was pretty good this season playing top-4 minutes, all things considered. He had positive possession numbers despite having the highest D-zone start % and some pretty poor possession forwards playing in front of him, and I also found his game very complimentary to both 4 and 47 (when they were healthy). Meanwhile, Manson has really struggled the past 2+ seasons and we all saw how truly awful that Fowler-Manson experiment turned out. I'd prefer to keep both guys because I think 4-6 and 47-42 would still be a very good top-4 on a team with a better forward group, but if we're picking only one of Manson or Gudbranson to play a top-4 role here for the next 2-3 seasons, Guddy's got my vote right now based on his play this past season and how badly Manson has struggled recently.  

agreed.  there were some very, very good looking games while 4-6 was a thing.  47-6 was ok, but never felt as good, either as a pairing or for the team as a whole.  Cam was flying on offensive-d at times, and Gbud was smart and long enough to cut off most (not all) the leaks the other way.  more than that, they were fun to watch play.

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15 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

I respectfully disagree. I thought he was pretty good this season playing top-4 minutes, all things considered. He had positive possession numbers despite having the highest D-zone start % and some pretty poor possession forwards playing in front of him, and I also found his game very complimentary to both 4 and 47 (when they were healthy). Meanwhile, Manson has really struggled the past 2+ seasons and we all saw how truly awful that Fowler-Manson experiment turned out. I'd prefer to keep both guys because I think 4-6 and 47-42 would still be a very good top-4 on a team with a better forward group, but if we're picking only one of Manson or Gudbranson to play a top-4 role here for the next 2-3 seasons, Guddy's got my vote right now based on his play this past season and how badly Manson has struggled recently.  

I think the sample size in Anaheim is still too small to say that. While I agree that he played well in Anaheim this past season, playing more minutes on average than he has played in the past, his history on other teams would suggest that he's going to start struggling and making more mistakes when playing higher minutes game after game. I feel long term he would be a more effective player when playing around 18 minutes per game instead of 20+ minutes per game. I would like to see more of him before penciling him into a top-4 role. Ideally I would add another guy to fill that top-4 spot (Pietrangelo would be nice but that's a pipe dream, maybe a guy like Shattenkirk) and then have Guddy on the third line - that would be a nice deep defensive unit. I'm not sold on Hakanpaa being a long term solution on that right side either.

Fortunately we don't have to make a decision right now, but if Guddy outperforms Manson next season I would not be opposed to moving Manson as he still has good trade value and could bring back a nice haul at the trade deadline to help our rebuild. However he is part of the leadership group on this team and Murray seems to be a big fan so I am not sure if he would pull the trigger.

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3 hours ago, nieder said:

I think the sample size in Anaheim is still too small to say that. While I agree that he played well in Anaheim this past season, playing more minutes on average than he has played in the past, his history on other teams would suggest that he's going to start struggling and making more mistakes when playing higher minutes game after game. I feel long term he would be a more effective player when playing around 18 minutes per game instead of 20+ minutes per game. I would like to see more of him before penciling him into a top-4 role. Ideally I would add another guy to fill that top-4 spot (Pietrangelo would be nice but that's a pipe dream, maybe a guy like Shattenkirk) and then have Guddy on the third line - that would be a nice deep defensive unit. I'm not sold on Hakanpaa being a long term solution on that right side either.

Fortunately we don't have to make a decision right now, but if Guddy outperforms Manson next season I would not be opposed to moving Manson as he still has good trade value and could bring back a nice haul at the trade deadline to help our rebuild. However he is part of the leadership group on this team and Murray seems to be a big fan so I am not sure if he would pull the trigger.

I hate to say it...We have to  "Wait and See" Right now I am hopeful Ducks Defence Corps comprise of Fowler,Lindholm,Manson,Hakanpaa,Curran and Gudbranson can do well. which leaves Larrsson being sent down to San Diego for more seasoning.

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3 hours ago, nieder said:

I think the sample size in Anaheim is still too small to say that. While I agree that he played well in Anaheim this past season, playing more minutes on average than he has played in the past, his history on other teams would suggest that he's going to start struggling and making more mistakes when playing higher minutes game after game. I feel long term he would be a more effective player when playing around 18 minutes per game instead of 20+ minutes per game. I would like to see more of him before penciling him into a top-4 role. Ideally I would add another guy to fill that top-4 spot (Pietrangelo would be nice but that's a pipe dream, maybe a guy like Shattenkirk) and then have Guddy on the third line - that would be a nice deep defensive unit. I'm not sold on Hakanpaa being a long term solution on that right side either.

Fortunately we don't have to make a decision right now, but if Guddy outperforms Manson next season I would not be opposed to moving Manson as he still has good trade value and could bring back a nice haul at the trade deadline to help our rebuild. However he is part of the leadership group on this team and Murray seems to be a big fan so I am not sure if he would pull the trigger.

Don't forget we've got an expansion draft coming too. Guddy won't need protection since he'll be a UFA. But if GMBM adds anyone else to the blue line then the Ducks may be looking at losing Manson anyway in the ED.

btw, how screwed up must the expansion draft plans of most teams be right now?!?! I assume the league is going to have to adjust certain rules and requirements to help teams adjust their plans. I mean, the 40/70 games played requirement HAS to be changed now, right?!?! I'm thinking that Bob's quote about Bill Daly helping him "with some other things we're planning going forward that we need to do as an organization" may be about the ED and how the exposure requirements will apply.

Edited by dtsdlaw
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2 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

Don't forget we've got an expansion draft coming too. Guddy won't need protection since he'll be a UFA. But if GMBM adds anyone else to the blue line then the Ducks may be looking at losing Manson anyway in the ED.

btw, how screwed up must the expansion draft plans of most teams be right now?!?! I assume the league is going to have to adjust certain rules and requirements to help teams adjust their plans. I mean, the 40/70 games played requirement HAS to be changed now, right?!?! I'm thinking that Bob's quote about Bill Daly helping him "with some other things we're planning going forward that we need to do as an organization" may be about the ED and how the exposure requirements will apply.

I had not even thought about that, but you are right. The games played requirement would surely have to change now. I can't remember - does the 40/70 game requirement include playoff games? If not, the league is not considering the 'play-in' round as playoff games, so will those games count to the player totals? They surely can't count differently for different teams.

I thought his comment about Daly and 'things we're planning' may have been referring to bringing the Draft to Anaheim since the Ducks have never hosted a league event. But it would make sense that teams are in communication with the league about the ED requirements. 

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Next season Ducks Defence Corps would look alot like this. Keep in mind the pairs are not in order.

Fowler-Lindholm

Manson-Hakanpaa

Gudbranson-Curran/Djoos

Larsson

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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