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Time To Blow Things Up

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11 hours ago, gorbachav5 said:

Nick Deslauriers and Carter Rowney are leading* the team in points.  Just let that wash over you for a minute.  We're 20% of the way through the season.

*Tied with Getzlaf and Silfverberg.  But still.

Don't want to be too hard on the kid but Gibson and Miller are tied with Terry, a forward who has played 9 games. 

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On 1/31/2021 at 12:47 PM, FanSince1993 said:

I completely agree with you, guys, that BM have to go, However, I afraid nothing is going to happen. Keep in mind, that Anaheim is a small market, budget team. Samueli's never watch or attend games, except occasional ceremonial puck drops. Now, let's say someone reports to them about true condition of this team. If they fire BM, they'll need to spend a few million dollars to hire another GM. Then they'll need to spend another few million $ to hire a new coach. The Ducks organization already losing millions of dollars due to short season and no ticket sales. Why would the ownership spend more money if the season is lost anyways?

As much as I don't like BM, who gradually turned a Stanley Cup contender into NHL doormat, I afraid he'll stay till 2022, when his contract will expire.

Let’s not lose sight of the fact that the Samueli’s are worth north of 4 billion.  If they wanted to shake things up, they would.  It’s not a money thing.  They must actually believe the team is in good hands. 

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6 hours ago, DT2008 said:

Let’s not lose sight of the fact that the Samueli’s are worth north of 4 billion.  If they wanted to shake things up, they would.  It’s not a money thing.  They must actually believe the team is in good hands. 

IF that is...then they are Naive to think or expect Ducks GM Bob Murray to make  important move.

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MooseDuck

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for me is an important year to see how good is BM.

go in full rebuild, the only good move for now. especially before the ED Seattle, trade some veterans away and try to get the best for the future. he made already some good future moves (we had 2 firsts in last two years).

 

trade players like Manson, Shattenkirk, Rakell, Henrique, Silfverberg...maybe keep 2-3 leadership veterans (as Getzlaf).. take some picks for the next 2-3 years (you don't have to take all for the same year).

so you can protect all players you want in the ED... and not have to make a deal with Seattle to protect your guys...

every Stanley Cup winner in the last 15 years had at least a top 4 overall pick. Detroit were the only one without a top 5 pick who won the Cup (Ducks had 2. B. Ryan and 5. Christov, but both not played 2006-2007)...

 

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21 hours ago, DT2008 said:

Let’s not lose sight of the fact that the Samueli’s are worth north of 4 billion.  If they wanted to shake things up, they would.  It’s not a money thing.  They must actually believe the team is in good hands. 

On paper.  In order to see that money, they'd have to sell stocks, which would immediately lower the value of them.

Cash wise, I wouldn't be surprised if the business side of the Ducks was presently upside down.  I think it is still a money thing.  They never want to be strapped unless it is an absolute slam dunk, which is rare.

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30 minutes ago, gotchabari said:

On paper.  In order to see that money, they'd have to sell stocks, which would immediately lower the value of them.

Cash wise, I wouldn't be surprised if the business side of the Ducks was presently upside down.  I think it is still a money thing.  They never want to be strapped unless it is an absolute slam dunk, which is rare.

Clearly from the Looks of it Ducks are saving money using the "Developing Within" Method that work with previous prospects....But I think imho IF they want to make a trade it must benefit them the most. I agree it's rare but also you say about "Slam Dunk"...Only way it's happening is IF they get impact player.

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MooseDuck

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7 hours ago, Spike1981 said:

for me is an important year to see how good is BM.

go in full rebuild, the only good move for now. especially before the ED Seattle, trade some veterans away and try to get the best for the future. he made already some good future moves (we had 2 firsts in last two years).

 

trade players like Manson, Shattenkirk, Rakell, Henrique, Silfverberg...maybe keep 2-3 leadership veterans (as Getzlaf).. take some picks for the next 2-3 years (you don't have to take all for the same year).

so you can protect all players you want in the ED... and not have to make a deal with Seattle to protect your guys...

The big problem with this is that other teams also don't want to give up assets to add players they would have to protect in the expansion draft. I can see the upcoming trade deadline being way down for trades of players whose contracts don't end this year. The trade value of Manson, Shattenkirk, Rakell, Henrique, Silfverberg will all be higher after the expansion draft.

I wouldn't worry too much about the expansion draft, either way we are going to lose somebody that we would prefer not to lose. Every team will. That is the way the expansion draft is built, we just have to deal with it.

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With the way Vancouver's going, Travis Green might be available soon.  Gibson would be under even more heat, but at least the games will be more fun.

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Toronto looks strong....In 2015 they were a crappy team desperate for a starting goalie. They also had 3 first round picks that year. Oh, imagine if BM showed some patience, held on Frederick Andersen a little more and demanded 4th overall pick instead of 30th. We could have Mitch Marner instead of Sam Steel.

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35 minutes ago, FanSince1993 said:

Toronto looks strong....In 2015 they were a crappy team desperate for a starting goalie. They also had 3 first round picks that year. Oh, imagine if BM showed some patience, held on Frederick Andersen a little more and demanded 4th overall pick instead of 30th. We could have Mitch Marner instead of Sam Steel.

...? im not sure im following...first...Freddie was traded in 2016...so im not sure if holding on to him a little longer would have gotten us the 2015 #4 pick...

Also, even if BM did want to be impatient and trade Freddie when his value was the highest, after the 2015 playoffs, aint no way the Leafs give up their #4 pick. Also, Gibson wasn't ready to be the starter yet (as proof in the start of the 2016 playoffs...) and with Freddie/Gibson going into the 15/16 season we had our best chance of winning the Cup than if we lose one of those.

Also don't forget we got Comtois. Although I guess if we did this trade in 2015...we would have gotten the leafs 2nd rounder for 2016...which would have been Korshkov (...??)...well, more likely not since he's Russian...probably Tyler Benson...also the 1st rounder in the 2015 we would have gotten would have been at best Travis Konecny...but that would have been dependent on the leafs not trading it to Philly.

Also not sure why so many are down on Steel. Yeah, he's not Mitch Marner, but he's showing a lot of effort and is making a lot of smart plays. He's been one of the better players on the team. He's still young. He has a lot of room to grow.

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48 minutes ago, Jasoaks said:

...? im not sure im following...first...Freddie was traded in 2016...so im not sure if holding on to him a little longer would have gotten us the 2015 #4 pick...

Also, even if BM did want to be impatient and trade Freddie when his value was the highest, after the 2015 playoffs, aint no way the Leafs give up their #4 pick. Also, Gibson wasn't ready to be the starter yet (as proof in the start of the 2016 playoffs...) and with Freddie/Gibson going into the 15/16 season we had our best chance of winning the Cup than if we lose one of those.

Also don't forget we got Comtois. Although I guess if we did this trade in 2015...we would have gotten the leafs 2nd rounder for 2016...which would have been Korshkov (...??)...well, more likely not since he's Russian...probably Tyler Benson...also the 1st rounder in the 2015 we would have gotten would have been at best Travis Konecny...but that would have been dependent on the leafs not trading it to Philly.

Also not sure why so many are down on Steel. Yeah, he's not Mitch Marner, but he's showing a lot of effort and is making a lot of smart plays. He's been one of the better players on the team. He's still young. He has a lot of room to grow.

Just checked statistics, you are right, Mitch Marner was drafted a year ago before Freddy was traded. But still, don't you think that top 10 NHL goalie worth more than 30th draft pick? Especially for a team desperate for a netminder?

Edited by FanSince1993
If not Leafs, many other teams with higher draft picks could be interested in Anderson.

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57 minutes ago, FanSince1993 said:

Just checked statistics, you are right, Mitch Marner was drafted a year ago before Freddy was traded. But still, don't you think that top 10 NHL goalie worth more than 30th draft pick? Especially for a team desperate for a netminder?

I do think so, yeah! I remember the trade happening and being like...really? But also, with the ED coming up the next year...every team knew the Ducks were in trouble with goaltending and in defense. Although....hindsight....if we decide to let Freddie be taken in the ED....he probably does. Meaning they probably don't take Fleury. Meaning we probably keep Theodore and all our D...meaning we don't sign Bernier...meaning we probably at least get to the finals in 2017 if not win the cup....

And we'd still have Theo. But also Stoner lol

We wouldn't have Steel or Comtois right now...but...I dunno. We'll have to see how they really pan out. Put Zegras with Comtois. Steel makes bigger leaps in the coming seasons...who knows.

Although, maybe Vegas still takes Fleury. I dunno...you're starting a franchise...you've got Fleury or Freddie to be your starter...who do you pick? 3-time stanley cup champion (or 2 lol) but older? Or (maybe 1-time stanley cup champion lol), but younger and room to grow?

Edited by Jasoaks

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17 hours ago, gorbachav5 said:

With the way Vancouver's going, Travis Green might be available soon.  Gibson would be under even more heat, but at least the games will be more fun.

It won't surprise me.....NHL Coaches in Canada don't last that long.

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8 hours ago, Jasoaks said:

I do think so, yeah! I remember the trade happening and being like...really? But also, with the ED coming up the next year...every team knew the Ducks were in trouble with goaltending and in defense. Although....hindsight....if we decide to let Freddie be taken in the ED....he probably does. Meaning they probably don't take Fleury. Meaning we probably keep Theodore and all our D...meaning we don't sign Bernier...meaning we probably at least get to the finals in 2017 if not win the cup....

And we'd still have Theo. But also Stoner lol

We wouldn't have Steel or Comtois right now...but...I dunno. We'll have to see how they really pan out. Put Zegras with Comtois. Steel makes bigger leaps in the coming seasons...who knows.

Although, maybe Vegas still takes Fleury. I dunno...you're starting a franchise...you've got Fleury or Freddie to be your starter...who do you pick? 3-time stanley cup champion (or 2 lol) but older? Or (maybe 1-time stanley cup champion lol), but younger and room to grow?

I think they would've taken Freddie over Fleury if it came to that. Big credit to Fleury for turning his career around that first year in Vegas but he was a total mess towards the end in Pittsburgh. He was the catalyst for so many of their playoff meltdowns over the years to the point where they felt comfortable replacing him with an unproven rookie in 2016. They did it again the next year although Fleury held his own at the start of that run.

Bernier should be considered a swear word on these forums. Guy hasn't won a game in over 450 days. Part of that is playing for the Red Wings of course. Consistently letting in goals from outside the blueline doesn't help though. Gimme Fleury at his worst making snow angels in his crease instead of whatever sport Bernier thought he was playing for us in 2017.

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1 hour ago, PetrSykora said:

I think they would've taken Freddie over Fleury if it came to that. Big credit to Fleury for turning his career around that first year in Vegas but he was a total mess towards the end in Pittsburgh. He was the catalyst for so many of their playoff meltdowns over the years to the point where they felt comfortable replacing him with an unproven rookie in 2016. They did it again the next year although Fleury held his own at the start of that run.

Bernier should be considered a swear word on these forums. Guy hasn't won a game in over 450 days. Part of that is playing for the Red Wings of course. Consistently letting in goals from outside the blueline doesn't help though. Gimme Fleury at his worst making snow angels in his crease instead of whatever sport Bernier thought he was playing for us in 2017.

Ohh you don't have to tell me about Bernier lol I was calling him BGB (bad goal bernier) before he was even on the team lol

In fact I think it was somewhere on these boards I was making fun of him before he came over to us...when the Leafs got Freddie...and then signed Freddie to that big extension...and....Bernier's comments were "huh, wow, that's certainly a lot to be paying for a back-up goalie..." like...just not putting 2 and 2 together to see what was going on lol and then being shocked when he got traded.

But yeah I think you're right, Vegas takes Freddie...and...well...then we have a very real shot at a cup in 2017...and we would still have Theo today. And well, honestly, maybe even would still have Vats or Montour...I mean, who knows what this team looks like now if Vegas took Freddie over Theo.

I just think if we win a cup in 2017...we're not making that Vats for Rico trade. Kesler is out, probably retires. But we aren't in as big of a desperate salvage what is going on "win-now" for that next season.

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7 hours ago, PetrSykora said:

I think they would've taken Freddie over Fleury if it came to that. Big credit to Fleury for turning his career around that first year in Vegas but he was a total mess towards the end in Pittsburgh. He was the catalyst for so many of their playoff meltdowns over the years to the point where they felt comfortable replacing him with an unproven rookie in 2016. They did it again the next year although Fleury held his own at the start of that run.

Bernier should be considered a swear word on these forums. Guy hasn't won a game in over 450 days. Part of that is playing for the Red Wings of course. Consistently letting in goals from outside the blueline doesn't help though. Gimme Fleury at his worst making snow angels in his crease instead of whatever sport Bernier thought he was playing for us in 2017.

Too late to edit but I'm 100% backwards here. It's been that long since a Red Wing goalie other than Bernier has won a game (which is an absolute woof in itself). I may be entirely incorrect but I still feel like I did a little more homework before making that dumb post than Bernier did prior to attending that Nelson Mandela Night event in Toronto where he confused him for a hockey player in an interview :ph34r:

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4 hours ago, PetrSykora said:

Too late to edit but I'm 100% backwards here. It's been that long since a Red Wing goalie other than Bernier has won a game (which is an absolute woof in itself). I may be entirely incorrect but I still feel like I did a little more homework before making that dumb post than Bernier did prior to attending that Nelson Mandela Night event in Toronto where he confused him for a hockey player in an interview :ph34r:

yeah...I didn't even want to bring up the Mandela thing...that makes me feel bad, that's where i feel the line gets crossed making fun of him...lol

But yeah, you're right. Only Bernier has won a game for the Red Wings in that span, which I guess is NOW un-true since Greiss won last night.

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Let's Look at the previous Time our Ducks were going through these struggles...Look at the 2003 NHL Western Conference Champion Mighty Ducks of Anaheim...Paul Kariya,Steve Rucchin,Ruslan Salei, Vitaly Vishnevskiy,Mike Leclerc,Martin Gerber and Matt Cullen.....why i bring their names up is because Ducks allow them to develop and hone their skills...We could be seeing this in our team in next four years.

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17 hours ago, MooseDuck said:

Let's Look at the previous Time our Ducks were going through these struggles...Look at the 2003 NHL Western Conference Champion Mighty Ducks of Anaheim...Paul Kariya,Steve Rucchin,Ruslan Salei, Vitaly Vishnevskiy,Mike Leclerc,Martin Gerber and Matt Cullen.....why i bring their names up is because Ducks allow them to develop and hone their skills...We could be seeing this in our team in next four years.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

Not the same. That Ducks team did not have issues putting pucks in the net. They didn't have the worst powerplay in the league. Those players were willing to go into the dirty areas, i.e. in from of the net. They were not reliant on the dump and chase. The game was significantly different then. Different icing rules, no trapezoid, no two line passing. The fact is several of these prospects have had two or more seasons to develop and they stink. Without Perry on his line serving as a decoy Rakell cannot score .Fowler/Lindholm/Manson have all regressed. Shattenkirk has caused too many turnover goals for what the Ducks paid him.

Murray refuses to use his first draft picks every year to grab a scoring forward. He is constantly digging in the bargain bin during the off season and getting used up ineffective players. Does Sheldon Soray ring a bell? How about Patrick Eaves? (Still don't buy the mystery desease story) He hired Eakin because he knew he could control him unlike Bruce. Murray is wasting Getzlaf's final years/Gibson's prime years by failing to put a competitive team together. 

The team sucks and Murray is to blame. He's about three season overdue for walking papers.

Edited by Shadowduck
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6 hours ago, Shadowduck said:

Not the same. That Ducks team did not have issues putting pucks in the net. They didn't have the worst powerplay in the league. Those players were willing to go into the dirty areas, i.e. in from of the net. They were not reliant on the dump and chase. The game was significantly different then. Different icing rules, no trapezoid, no two line passing. The fact is several of these prospects have had two or more seasons to develop and they stink. Without Perry on his line serving as a decoy Rakell cannot score .Fowler/Lindholm/Manson have all regressed. Shattenkirk has caused too many turnover goals for what the Ducks paid him.

Murray refuses to use his first draft picks every year to grab a scoring forward. He is constantly digging in the bargain bin during the off season and getting used up ineffective players. Does Sheldon Soray ring a bell? How about Patrick Eaves? (Still don't buy the mystery desease story) He hired Eakin because he knew he could control him unlike Bruce. Murray is wasting Getzlaf's final years/Gibson's prime years by failing to put a competitive team together. 

The team sucks and Murray is to blame. He's about three season overdue for walking papers.

Totally unfair. You're better than that Shadowduck. Turns out it wasn't Guillain Barre Syndrome (but he had to go to the Mayo Clinic to see a specialist to find that out), but that still doesn't take away from the tremendous hardship the affliction caused him and his family. 

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16 minutes ago, dukitup said:

Totally unfair. You're better than that Shadowduck. Turns out it wasn't Guillain Barre Syndrome (but he had to go to the Mayo Clinic to see a specialist to find that out), but that still doesn't take away from the tremendous hardship the affliction caused him and his family. 

Nor the hardship of Eaves I imagine it's struggle for him. Not able to play and seeing the Ducks Struggle and inconsistent in scoring the goals needed in each season.

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1 hour ago, dukitup said:

Totally unfair. You're better than that Shadowduck. Turns out it wasn't Guillain Barre Syndrome (but he had to go to the Mayo Clinic to see a specialist to find that out), but that still doesn't take away from the tremendous hardship the affliction caused him and his family. 

Eaves' illness was not the primary point of my response. However you can't tell me the team wasn't way too cryptic with his issues once it was revealed it wasn't Guillain Barre Syndrome. To this day there has been no public explanation of his illness. That leads me to believe(no evidence just my opinion) it was a combination of a mental illness brought on or intensified by some sort of substance abuse. I'm not discounting or minimizing the suffering Eaves went though and I truly hope he recovers completely. It made me sad to see him sitting on the bench shaking like a leaf before his first shift when he attempted to return to play.

My point is that Murray has a horrible track record of bringing in players that are past their prime or flawed in some way. He's putting too much stock in his forward prospects(who clearly are not ready yet) when he should have been looking to sign a scoring forward instead of signing Shattenkirk.

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There's a lot to criticize Murray for, but based on what we knew at the time I don't think that giving that contract to Eaves was a bad move. He had clear chemistry with Getzlaf and it looked like we had finally found a RW that could play with him. Eaves had a history of missing games with various injuries but I was happy with signing him for $3M per year assuming he could play 60 games per season, he could have scored 30 goals playing with Getzlaf. I don't think anybody could predict something coming up that would completely end his career even if he was injury prone.

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25 minutes ago, nieder said:

There's a lot to criticize Murray for, but based on what we knew at the time I don't think that giving that contract to Eaves was a bad move. He had clear chemistry with Getzlaf and it looked like we had finally found a RW that could play with him. Eaves had a history of missing games with various injuries but I was happy with signing him for $3M per year assuming he could play 60 games per season, he could have scored 30 goals playing with Getzlaf. I don't think anybody could predict something coming up that would completely end his career even if he was injury prone.

I don't think so too...Fate and unknown can be unpredictable in the future.

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1 hour ago, nieder said:

There's a lot to criticize Murray for, but based on what we knew at the time I don't think that giving that contract to Eaves was a bad move. He had clear chemistry with Getzlaf and it looked like we had finally found a RW that could play with him. Eaves had a history of missing games with various injuries but I was happy with signing him for $3M per year assuming he could play 60 games per season, he could have scored 30 goals playing with Getzlaf. I don't think anybody could predict something coming up that would completely end his career even if he was injury prone.

I agree with this. And there are also much better examples of GMBM's dumpster diving in free agency than two very good players whose careers were ended prematurely by health issues (Souray and Eaves). I would have gone with Bryan Allen or Clayton Stoner or Dustin Penner (part deux) or Radek Dvorak or Shawn Horcoff or... :lol:

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32 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

I agree with this. And there are also much better examples of GMBM's dumpster diving in free agency than two very good players whose careers were ended prematurely by health issues (Souray and Eaves). I would have gone with Bryan Allen or Clayton Stoner or Dustin Penner (part deux) or Radek Dvorak or Shawn Horcoff or... :lol:

I'm good with Eaves, but I think you're stretching on Souray.  He was 36 when he was signed and had been injured and/or bad for two seasons when Murray signed him.  That was a classic Murray pylon signing, even if it was a slightly different color of pylon.  But Eaves was fine - his specific medical issues were unpredictable

The guy I regret NOT re-signing - David Perron.  He came to the Ducks, he was very good, and they let him go for a contract that they easily could have matched.  Maybe Perron had no desire to be back in Anaheim, but he'd been very productive alongside Getzlaf and Perry, and he's been great ever since.  And if Perron re-signs, there is no trade for or contract to Eaves.

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1 hour ago, gorbachav5 said:

I'm good with Eaves, but I think you're stretching on Souray.  He was 36 when he was signed and had been injured and/or bad for two seasons when Murray signed him.  That was a classic Murray pylon signing, even if it was a slightly different color of pylon.  But Eaves was fine - his specific medical issues were unpredictable

The guy I regret NOT re-signing - David Perron.  He came to the Ducks, he was very good, and they let him go for a contract that they easily could have matched.  Maybe Perron had no desire to be back in Anaheim, but he'd been very productive alongside Getzlaf and Perry, and he's been great ever since.  And if Perron re-signs, there is no trade for or contract to Eaves.

Man...that Perron trade was amazing. Just....ugh, it still frustrates me the complete incompetent use of Gibson/Andersen in that 2016 playoffs...if we start Freddie I think we likely make it to the finals that year.... (maybe that's a leap? but psh, i'm rewriting history here guys haha)...and then we have a super cool story of Perron v Hagelin in the finals haha 2 teams that completely turned it around with one trade with each other...

Also...what was it...2015? or was it 2014? Where the Caps/Ducks played the last game of the season together and they were the 2 favorites to make it to the finals? And that I think never happened before? or it had been like way too long. That would have been cool, too...

Also the same year we were #1 in PP and PK.............sigh........ :( 

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4 hours ago, gorbachav5 said:

I'm good with Eaves, but I think you're stretching on Souray.  He was 36 when he was signed and had been injured and/or bad for two seasons when Murray signed him.  That was a classic Murray pylon signing, even if it was a slightly different color of pylon.  But Eaves was fine - his specific medical issues were unpredictable

The guy I regret NOT re-signing - David Perron.  He came to the Ducks, he was very good, and they let him go for a contract that they easily could have matched.  Maybe Perron had no desire to be back in Anaheim, but he'd been very productive alongside Getzlaf and Perry, and he's been great ever since.  And if Perron re-signs, there is no trade for or contract to Eaves.

I don't think this is a fair characterization. Souray had been buried by Edmonton due to his salary and a dispute with management over his injury recovery, and he played pretty well the season before we signed him with Dallas. And while we only got 44 games out of him during that lockout shortened 2012-13 season, he did log the 2nd most average TOI that season on the team while playing on the top pair with Beauchemin and he scored the most goals among all of the Ducks D-men (7). And he basically escorted Boom-Boom to a 4th place finish in the Norris voting too. That Souray-Beauchemin was tremendous for the first 38-40 games or so of that sprint, but I think the condensed schedule and the 1st pair minutes caught up with him at the end, and he also had a bad playoff series against Detroit which clouds the memories of how good he was earlier in the season. If he hadn't torn up his wrist, I think he would have been a solid 4/5 D-man in years 2-3 of that contract, which is what he was basically signed to be in the first place. Souray-Vatanen as a 3rd pairing in 2013-14 and 2014-15? Yes, please. MUCH better than Bryan Allen turned out to be.

Edited by dtsdlaw

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i think Simon Després was the biggest mistake, but i'm not sure who takes the most blame there.  Després would have been a great addition but for the concussion issues... and i think the team that traded him to us knew what the score was on that.  i tend to think BM didn't do his due diligence on the trade, or didn't know enough medically to know it would be a continuing issue.

but, with the more recent revelations of Kesler... now i wonder if the team ever really gave him a chance to recover properly.  something was really, really wrong with him, clearly, and i still think it's crazy he's playing (or was, as of last year) hockey in europe.  the wiki page on him says his health returned... which i find suspect, but if true, certainly doesn't say much for our medical staff.  shrug.  

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1 hour ago, Fisix said:

i think Simon Després was the biggest mistake, but i'm not sure who takes the most blame there.  Després would have been a great addition but for the concussion issues... and i think the team that traded him to us knew what the score was on that.  i tend to think BM didn't do his due diligence on the trade, or didn't know enough medically to know it would be a continuing issue.

but, with the more recent revelations of Kesler... now i wonder if the team ever really gave him a chance to recover properly.  something was really, really wrong with him, clearly, and i still think it's crazy he's playing (or was, as of last year) hockey in europe.  the wiki page on him says his health returned... which i find suspect, but if true, certainly doesn't say much for our medical staff.  shrug.  

Hm, I seem to remember none of Despres issues became issues till he joined the Ducks...but I could have just not been aware of his time in Pittsburgh. Ugh, if he stayed healthy...frak....sometimes i forget about just HOW good our D looked like 5/6 years ago....especially with our goalies.

Wait, Kesler is playing and is "fine" ???? Is...is he not allowed to come back?? Would he???? Would we want him??? I don't know how that works at all.

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