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48 minutes ago, Jasoaks said:

hmmm might have already heard the news if he was?? since the Kings are so low in the standings? I'm just not sure how that works. Do teams have to formally pass or do they have till a certain time till the next team can grab him?

Kings have a .500 point percentage. There are currently about 8 teams lower than them. And I think they have until noon tomorrow to submit a claim.

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1 minute ago, dtsdlaw said:

Kings have a .500 point percentage. There are currently about 8 teams lower than them. And I think they have until noon tomorrow to submit a claim.

ohhh so ANY team can grab him by then?? i thought there was an order....

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16 minutes ago, Jasoaks said:

ohhh so ANY team can grab him by then?? i thought there was an order....

Anyone interested could submit a claim during the 24-hour window. Then tomorrow at noon they would award him to the team that is lowest in the standings who submitted a claim.

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7 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

Anyone interested could submit a claim during the 24-hour window. Then tomorrow at noon they would award him to the team that is lowest in the standings who submitted a claim.

GOT IT!...that makes a lot more sense haha thanks!

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Nothing illustrates the lack of talented, skillful forwards on this team better than looking at them trying to enter the zone on the PP. Terrible. Just terrible.

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16 hours ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

Obviously much more to him getting healthy scratched and ending his games played streak earlier. Gives a bit more credence to the theory of a rift because he wouldn't waive Columbus from his no-trade list when the Ducks were trying to get Dubois.

I'm beginning to lean this way too.  

Man, i remember the effort Kesler put into playing, game after game in pain, regardless of coach, and doing a more than decent job until his hip just completely failed, and then i look at how easy it seems to be for our current core players to slip into some kind of mental disability while otherwise healthy and getting paid well... 

I swear, someday we're going to learn that Shattenkirk or one of the other new players did some nasty thing to Hank or a good friend of Hank's a decade ago, or something similar, and that's what's poisoned the room.  The team chemistry has gone to Dehydrated Donkey Dung, and it looks like Hank has noped the frak out.  Certainly, that's how he's being treated, and that's what his game stats say.  Zero trust on both sides.

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8 hours ago, Spike1981 said:

is there a statement from Murray?

I hope he tried to trade him. if not, I lost my confidence in him and I think he should go.

I imagine he tried, but we don't want to lose a prospect or high pick just to move Henrique.

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6 minutes ago, gotchabari said:

I imagine he tried, but we don't want to lose a prospect or high pick just to move Henrique.

retain salary...

I hope he tried it, but why not a statement?

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1 minute ago, Spike1981 said:

retain salary...

I hope he tried it, but why not a statement?

Retaining salary stays on our cap.  I'm guessing he doesn't want that.

And no statement maybe because the transaction isn't complete?

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14 minutes ago, gotchabari said:

Retaining salary stays on our cap.  I'm guessing he doesn't want that.

we have this year 6 mio for Perry... next year 2 mio, so no worry about that...if we got 3-4 mio away, we have next season 8 mio new space for other players.

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3 minutes ago, Spike1981 said:

we have this year 6 mio for Perry... next year 2 mio, so no worry about that...if we got 3-4 mio away, we have next season 8 mio new space for other players.

Yes, and that has choked us a bit.  I don't think he wasn't to willingly add to that, and neither do we.

We can't say we're disappointed he didn't add a phantom cap hit and then turn around and complain that he didn't make some splashy deal that requires cap space.

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It's  NOT Easy to Trade or make trade.....in this day of age...But imho Ducks need to be strategic,Openminded and by very aware what needs to be done...YES we talk getting Picks here and that....Prospects and son But we must be clear Ducks need to make BEST of any TRADE DEAL NOT throw a Player away free up Cap Room.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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On 2/20/2021 at 10:20 AM, Jasoaks said:

Something has been off with Rico since the start of the season...this isn't the same guy from last season. If it's coaching staff related...frak this move. I'd rather have Rico than Eakins or any of the coaching staff.

I'm sure Murray tried to trade him and no one took him. Him being scratched or waived doesn't really affect much on the ice....i mean, we might look better?

But SOMETHING is going on with Rico. To me, this is strange. Unlikely he gets picked up...but he might!

Or, Murray had a trade in place but was prevented from doing so because Rico wouldn't waive his 10-team NTC for whoever BM had a deal set up with?

Something is going on here. The waivers move seems retaliatory to me. Very personal. Like perhaps Rico (or his agent) has done something specific to raise GMBM's ire. More than just playing poorly, though his underlying fancy stats are really not bad after only 17 games. There's a bench and a press box that can be used for poor play, and it's not like the bench and press box are single-use entities if you don't get the immediate result you want. Waivers is an entirely different animal though. For a player of Henrique's caliber, that's humiliating. It's demeaning. Bob didn't even bother to try and sneak Rowney (a 31-year-old 4th liner on an expiring contract) through waivers before the seasons started, but Rico gets waivers after 17 games? Two days later and I'm still having trouble wrapping my head around why the Ducks would go for such a messy, public divorce from Rico after he scored 26G last season. It's a really bad look all around.

btw, there are only about 6-7 teams that have cap space to take on his current cap hit, and of those teams I wouldn't be surprised if at least half of them are on Rico's 10-team no trade list. If GMBM was already trying to trade him, chances are the league's GMs know which teams are on Rico's list, and it may have prevented him from being snagged by, for example, an Ottawa or a Detroit. That may make him harder to trade too. If team's that have the cap space know he didn't want to be traded there, they likely wouldn't be interested in acquiring him now. So this could take a long time to play out.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't we know already that Henrique was asked to waive his NTC back when there was speculation about Laine and Dubois?  In which case, if Henrique was upset about that, he or his agent very easily could have said something to tick Murray off.  And we also know Murray can be vindictive to players he believes have wronged him, whether through something like this or through their effort level.  So it wouldn't surprise me if Murray went to waivers as a red-blooded reaction to a player/agent giving him grief.  It is, however, completely and utterly unprofessional.  It's not good for anyone.

Unfortunately, it doesn't matter.  The Samuelis aren't going to fire him unless something absolutely inexcusable happens, and this, while really bad, doesn't quite rise to that level.  So here we sit.  Watching our team crumble around us with no path forward.

Sorry for the melodrama.

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1 hour ago, dtsdlaw said:

Or, Murray had a trade in place but was prevented from doing so because Rico wouldn't waive his 10-team NTC for whoever BM had a deal set up with?

Something is going on here. The waivers move seems retaliatory to me. Very personal. Like perhaps Rico (or his agent) has done something specific to raise GMBM's ire. More than just playing poorly, though his underlying fancy stats are really not bad after only 17 games. There's a bench and a press box that can be used for poor play, and it's not like the bench and press box are single-use entities if you don't get the immediate result you want. Waivers is an entirely different animal though. For a player of Henrique's caliber, that's humiliating. It's demeaning. Bob didn't even bother to try and sneak Rowney (a 31-year-old 4th liner on an expiring contract) through waivers before the seasons started, but Rico gets waivers after 17 games? Two days later and I'm still having trouble wrapping my head around why the Ducks would go for such a messy, public divorce from Rico after he scored 26G last season. It's a really bad look all around.

btw, there are only about 6-7 teams that have cap space to take on his current cap hit, and of those teams I wouldn't be surprised if at least half of them are on Rico's 10-team no trade list. If GMBM was already trying to trade him, chances are the league's GMs know which teams are on Rico's list, and it may have prevented him from being snagged by, for example, an Ottawa or a Detroit. That may make him harder to trade too. If team's that have the cap space know he didn't want to be traded there, they likely wouldn't be interested in acquiring him now. So this could take a long time to play out.

Ugh, yeah, I mean I agree with you...that's very unprofessional of BM if that's what he's doing. I mean, that makes sense...why he wouldn't be taken or why he couldn't be traded and wouldn't waive for CBJ if that's what happened.

But like...something seemed off with him from GAME 1. Before any of this. Maybe BM tried to make a Rico trade before the season started. But if this is the way Rico responds to something that is clearly a part of the game, albeit shiiitttty part...then what the frak Rico? Like, that's on him then. I mean, I think Bieksa was asked to waive his NMC for the ED and didn't...but didn't then get all pouty about it after wards.

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counterpoint:  Hank refusing the trade is one thing (unless he went back on a verbal agreement to waive), but playing as poorly as he visibly has (regardless of the advanced stats - which CLEARLY shouldn't override the non-advanced stats) is completely another.  THAT's unprofessional.

we don't know what was said back and forth, though, so we can leave room for some poor judgement on both sides as far as what was said. 

it takes two to dance like this.  BM doesn't have a great track record, so i get why it feels like it makes sense to harp on him.  well, that and the rather poor asset management.  i'm sure both sides saw what happened with Laine and Dubois and decided to YOLO the whole situation.    

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3 hours ago, Fisix said:

counterpoint:  Hank refusing the trade is one thing (unless he went back on a verbal agreement to waive), but playing as poorly as he visibly has (regardless of the advanced stats - which CLEARLY shouldn't override the non-advanced stats) is completely another.  THAT's unprofessional.

we don't know what was said back and forth, though, so we can leave room for some poor judgement on both sides as far as what was said. 

it takes two to dance like this.  BM doesn't have a great track record, so i get why it feels like it makes sense to harp on him.  well, that and the rather poor asset management.  i'm sure both sides saw what happened with Laine and Dubois and decided to YOLO the whole situation.    

This is a bit over the top to call him unprofessional. I don't think he played up to the standards we expect from him, but Rico wasn't as bad as what people are saying about him. His struggles IMO were mostly in D-zone coverage, where he was beaten quite often. That could be an effort issue, but it also could be...oh, I don't know... because they hadn't played hockey since March 11th and got cheated out of a longer training camp!?!? Anyone over 30 knows that it takes a bit longer to get that body back ready to play at a high level, and it didn't help that their first 10 games were against teams that made the summer tournament. Their first opponent (Vegas) played 21 playoff games this summer. Colorado played 16 games. Arizona and St Louis each played 10 games. That was a huge advantage over the teams that didn't get any games in. We also started the season with 67-14-33 as basically our top line, meaning that they drew the Stone/Patches line and Pietrangelo right out of the gate. That's a tough way to start the season for a 31-year-old who hasn't played a game in 10 months.  I'm actually surprised that no one brings this up before dogpiling on Rico and a few of the other older players with respect to their slow starts to this season. Also, does anyone know which of our guys have had C19? After reading about Ristolainen's experience, I'm going to take a wait-and-see approach to some of these guys who have a history of being good players but who are off to poor starts. Because I'm still just puzzled by how Rico goes from scoring 26G in 71 games last season to waivers this season. You just don't lose your game that quickly outside of a major injury or illness.

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Though the whole situation is weird, I think we do need to trade Rico regardless. We need to get younger guys, he's on the opposite side of 30. I think he's still got some decent value. 26 goals last year isn't anything to sneeze at but his contract is a problem. Maybe we could have gotten some decent value at the deadline as he could be someone that cup teams would possibly look at. We'd have to sweeten regardless but we need the cap hit off the board too. Though I wouldn't want to add too much because his play would outweigh the trade value, especially if he can still contribute goals wise. As mentioned before, salary retention to possibly get better picks or prospects. Current issues or not, he can still put up points in this league and considering he's playing on one of the worst teams in the league he could probably put up better numbers playing with guys who can actually score. 

I don't want this turning over into some crazy holdout/ trade demand situation. Something's not right but I think the trade is probably the best option. We don't have enough scorers on the team. It also doesn't help that Rico is better as a LW rather than a center. But because of our lack of center depth (or actual capable centers) we chose to play him there. The team is a mess. I don't want to tank or tear up the team, but changes need to be made and it's better to get rid of these older guys. 

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We'll probably never know what went down but there's two parties to sign a contract. If BM is upset that Henrique wouldn't waive his NMC he shouldn't have put one in the contract. if Henrique refused he's just exercising his rights. If that's BM's reaction he's an even bigger doofus than I thought. It's stuff like that poisons relationships with players. 

I was always against a full blown rebuild but I don't see any other way. But BM and Eakins still have to go.
 

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1 hour ago, DucksFan_08 said:

I was always against a full blown rebuild but I don't see any other way

I know, everbody hoped that the retool is enough. I was always for the total rebuild and I don't see much talent from the kids, there is Comtois, Zegras, Drysdale and then? Terry and Steel who both not can score. Lundestrom looks better after the AHL-Trip. Jones is not a top 6 forward.

I don't want to be a playoff team, I want to be a contender team and that means, that you have to pick earlier in the draft (as I said, twice in the last 15 years won a team without a top 5 pick), you need at least one elite player. so better make the rebuild.

we still need some top 6 forwards and top 4 defenders for the future if we want go deep in the post season.

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2 hours ago, Spike1981 said:

I know, everbody hoped that the retool is enough. I was always for the total rebuild and I don't see much talent from the kids, there is Comtois, Zegras, Drysdale and then? Terry and Steel who both not can score. Lundestrom looks better after the AHL-Trip. Jones is not a top 6 forward.

I don't want to be a playoff team, I want to be a contender team and that means, that you have to pick earlier in the draft (as I said, twice in the last 15 years won a team without a top 5 pick), you need at least one elite player. so better make the rebuild.

we still need some top 6 forwards and top 4 defenders for the future if we want go deep in the post season.

I could not agree with you more we have NO sniper or unity on the team. It will not happen if BOB MURRY is at the helm. you can put his hockey IQ in a teaspoon and there will be room left. The sad story is we care and he DOES NOT and he gets paid for that. 

 

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33 minutes ago, Joker8 said:

we have NO sniper or unity on the team. It will not happen if BOB MURRY is at the helm. you can put his hockey IQ in a teaspoon and there will be room left. The sad story is we care and he DOES NOT and he gets paid for that. 

thats why I said we still need some top 6 forwards.... and he doesn't care? he was interim coach to see what is going wrong, he made a lot of trades last deadline (I was really surprised), signed a veteran Defender (who was a good move at the time he made it, but Shatt is a disappointment till now), if that worked out, we would have good top 4 defenders and an elite goaltender. what does should he do more? I heard he tried for Dubois too, but against Laine (I believe he tried Laine too) you don't have a comparable players without giving up Drysdale, Gibson and Zegras.. and at least Gibson has more value then this two.. he drafted well and we have the last 2 seasons twice a first rounder.. it needs time, a rebuild need time! if it goes good, in 3-4 seasons we can fight for the playoffs again. you think 15-20 years on top not has an impact? the Ducks drafted almost never in the top 15 the last years before 2019, how many times? twice in the last 15 years? and one of them was a very weak draft at all (the Ritchie Draft year).

I still have faith in him. but he has to fire some assistent coaches and maybe Eakins too and to learn that we need the rebuild.

 

Edited by Spike1981

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Freeing Cap Space is one option Ducks have But WHO do our Team Get in Return is something we need to talk About.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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55 minutes ago, Spike1981 said:

thats why I said we still need some top 6 forwards.... and he doesn't care? he was interim coach to see what is going wrong, he made a lot of trades last deadline (I was really surprised), signed a veteran Defender (who was a good move at the time he made it, but Shatt is a disappointment till now), if that worked out, we would have good top 4 defenders and an elite goaltender. what does should he do more? I heard he tried for Dubois too, but against Laine (I believe he tried Laine too) you don't have a comparable players without giving up Drysdale, Gibson and Zegras.. and at least Gibson has more value then this two.. he drafted well and we have the last 2 seasons twice a first rounder.. it needs time, a rebuild need time! if it goes good, in 3-4 seasons we can fight for the playoffs again. you think 15-20 years on top not has an impact? the Ducks drafted almost never in the top 15 the last years before 2019, how many times? twice in the last 15 years? and one of them was a very weak draft at all (the Ritchie Draft year).

I still have faith in him. but he has to fire some assistent coaches and maybe Eakins too and to learn that we need the rebuild.

 

Peter Holland (15th) in 2009, Fowler (12th) in 2010, Lindholm (6th) in 2012, Ritchie (10th) in 2014. So four top-15s in GMBM's 10 drafts before the Zegras pick in 2019. Yes, that's harder to get superstars that way. But consider how much better this team would be if GMBM had been able to really develop the potential of some of the good young players his scouting team had identified. Kyle Palmieri (#26, 2009), William Karlsson (#53, 2011), Shea Theodore (#26, 2013), Marcus Pettersson (#38, 2014)... all given away for practically nothing.

GMBM is also responsible for the assistant coaches. He doesn't let his head coach hire his own assistants. Morrison and Wilford are GMBM hires, and Morrison (who runs our PP) is actually a holdover from the Carlyle days. He's been here since the 2017-18 season.   

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13 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

Peter Holland (15th) in 2009, Fowler (12th) in 2010, Lindholm (6th) in 2012, Ritchie (10th) in 2014

okay I should say top twice 10 picks:D

Holland was the only bad pick, Fowler was okay, Lindholm is our best defender. in the 2014 draft Ritchie was a good pick.

14 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

Kyle Palmieri (#26, 2009), William Karlsson (#53, 2011), Shea Theodore (#26, 2013), Marcus Pettersson (#38, 2014)... all given away for practically nothing.

Theo I would do again at the moment of the deal. 2 of the 3 others were bad moves, Karlsson was bad also in Columbus, his career started in Vegas, you can't imagine that Vegas bring out Theo and Karlsson like that...

 

22 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

GMBM is also responsible for the assistant coaches. He doesn't let his head coach hire his own assistants. Morrison and Wilford are GMBM hires, and Morrison (who runs our PP) is actually a holdover from the Carlyle days. He's been here since the 2017-18 season.   

thats a move he has to do, fire at least the PP coach.

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12 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

This is a bit over the top to call him unprofessional. I don't think he played up to the standards we expect from him, but Rico wasn't as bad as what people are saying about him. His struggles IMO were mostly in D-zone coverage, where he was beaten quite often. That could be an effort issue, but it also could be...oh, I don't know... because they hadn't played hockey since March 11th and got cheated out of a longer training camp!?!? Anyone over 30 knows that it takes a bit longer to get that body back ready to play at a high level, and it didn't help that their first 10 games were against teams that made the summer tournament. Their first opponent (Vegas) played 21 playoff games this summer. Colorado played 16 games. Arizona and St Louis each played 10 games. That was a huge advantage over the teams that didn't get any games in. We also started the season with 67-14-33 as basically our top line, meaning that they drew the Stone/Patches line and Pietrangelo right out of the gate. That's a tough way to start the season for a 31-year-old who hasn't played a game in 10 months.  I'm actually surprised that no one brings this up before dogpiling on Rico and a few of the other older players with respect to their slow starts to this season. Also, does anyone know which of our guys have had C19? After reading about Ristolainen's experience, I'm going to take a wait-and-see approach to some of these guys who have a history of being good players but who are off to poor starts. Because I'm still just puzzled by how Rico goes from scoring 26G in 71 games last season to waivers this season. You just don't lose your game that quickly outside of a major injury or illness.

Sorry but I just don't buy this. He's supposed to be a professional athlete, and he wasn't ready to go even with a shortened training camp? That is ridiculous. He looks worse than Getzlaf and Backes and they are both at least 4 years older than Henrique.

I don't get what's happened to Henrique (and Silfverberg to a lesser extent) but to explain it away because of a short training camp is weak sauce.

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Is Henrique still with the team? I know he is on the taxi squad but is he still practicing with them? Or is he waiting for a trade?

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1 hour ago, nieder said:

Sorry but I just don't buy this. He's supposed to be a professional athlete, and he wasn't ready to go even with a shortened training camp? That is ridiculous. He looks worse than Getzlaf and Backes and they are both at least 4 years older than Henrique.

I don't get what's happened to Henrique (and Silfverberg to a lesser extent) but to explain it away because of a short training camp is weak sauce.

If you think it was strictly an effort or conditioning issue, then I see why you don't buy it. But it looked to me like it was only a small part effort (and that part just looked like he was discouraged, not lazy) and a large part other issues related to timing, role, cohesiveness, and sometimes just bad luck. That larger part I can blame at least partly on the 10 months off. The team overall started very out-of-sync IMO, and it seemed like every time Rico was a half step slow to a spot or with his stick during the first 6-7 games, the puck was in the back of the net. If you go back and watch all of his minuses from the first 10 or so games, I'd say a majority of those were also due to really poor play from the defenders, but somehow Rico was the only veteran who bore any consequences. Seriously, go back and watch his -3 against St Louis that led directly to his first scratch, and tell me that he's the guy who needed to sit after that 6-1 debacle instead of Flower or Shattenkirk. I also found it odd (and maybe Rico did too) that HCDE went to him early this season as a penalty killer (Rico-Silf as the second forward pair after Rowney-Grant) when Rico has never really had that as a primary responsibility, at least not as a Duck. Rico had a team-leading 4:19 of PK TOI in the 3rd game against Minnesota (highest among all forwards) and he's still 3rd among forwards on the team in PK TOI/game even after being scratched and waived (compare with Steel's 0:06 PK TOI/game <_<). He also drew an awful lot of tough assignments early on this season, including the first two games against the Stone/Patches line in Vegas. I believe that change in role from being the team's top goal scorer to a more defensive role likely had an impact on Rico's overall game, and coupled with the long layoff, his mediocre offensive performance, and generally poor play from everyone around him, Rico just had a really rough start to the season. But I can't help but wonder if things might look a bit different if Eakins hadn't singled just him out and had benched or scratched other vets like Fowler, Shattenkirk, and especially Larsson for their crappy play. Lord knows there are other guys who deserved to sit too, not just Henrique.

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1 hour ago, dtsdlaw said:

If you think it was strictly an effort or conditioning issue, then I see why you don't buy it. But it looked to me like it was only a small part effort (and that part just looked like he was discouraged, not lazy) and a large part other issues related to timing, role, cohesiveness, and sometimes just bad luck. That larger part I can blame at least partly on the 10 months off. The team overall started very out-of-sync IMO, and it seemed like every time Rico was a half step slow to a spot or with his stick during the first 6-7 games, the puck was in the back of the net. If you go back and watch all of his minuses from the first 10 or so games, I'd say a majority of those were also due to really poor play from the defenders, but somehow Rico was the only veteran who bore any consequences. Seriously, go back and watch his -3 against St Louis that led directly to his first scratch, and tell me that he's the guy who needed to sit after that 6-1 debacle instead of Flower or Shattenkirk. I also found it odd (and maybe Rico did too) that HCDE went to him early this season as a penalty killer (Rico-Silf as the second forward pair after Rowney-Grant) when Rico has never really had that as a primary responsibility, at least not as a Duck. Rico had a team-leading 4:19 of PK TOI in the 3rd game against Minnesota (highest among all forwards) and he's still 3rd among forwards on the team in PK TOI/game even after being scratched and waived (compare with Steel's 0:06 PK TOI/game <_<). He also drew an awful lot of tough assignments early on this season, including the first two games against the Stone/Patches line in Vegas. I believe that change in role from being the team's top goal scorer to a more defensive role likely had an impact on Rico's overall game, and coupled with the long layoff, his mediocre offensive performance, and generally poor play from everyone around him, Rico just had a really rough start to the season. But I can't help but wonder if things might look a bit different if Eakins hadn't singled just him out and had benched or scratched other vets like Fowler, Shattenkirk, and especially Larsson for their crappy play. Lord knows there are other guys who deserved to sit too, not just Henrique.

I can get behind your reasoning here. He was being used in a more defensive role than he was used to and didn't put it together. I also can't disagree that there were others that also deserve to be scratched. Shattenkirk and Larsson especially have been awful for 90% of the season and Henrique has been singled out.

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