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You know Getz must be in agony playing with this team in this situation.  Especially in the final year of his contract.  

I think bumbling Bob should ask him to consider a trade (give him a choice to go out on a winning team)  The Ducks have been good to him and allowing the Ducks to trade him for Premium assets this year, would help the Ducks and give him a chance to win.  Then if he would want to re-sign in the off season (why would he with this nightmare) The Ducks work something out.

This has to be painful for him.  The Ducks need every asset to try and turn this nightmare around.  This make to much sense for all involved

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GMBM did mention in an article recently that he wasn’t planning on moving him unless Getz came to him directly and requested it. Getz has also said he wants to play for only one franchise his whole career many times. Whether or not either of these play out will be seen. I really see the appeal from both sides, but at the end of the day this is business and they need to improve the team in anyway they possibly can right now. If Getz really does appreciate and love this franchise he would recognize that, ask for a trade to get assets, then resign. He could almost do that 2-3 years in a row. A true rental like you used to see at deadlines.

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38 minutes ago, gorbachav5 said:

No one is going to give the Ducks more than a 2nd for Getzlaf at this stage in his career.  Getzlaf has earned the right to stay here if he wants.  I wouldn't mind seeing Getz take one more run with a good team at a Cup, but I also really like the idea of him being a lifelong Duck and a 2nd round pick in a terrible draft isn't going to help the Ducks much.

Of all the things Murray has done wrong, I can't blame him for letting Getzlaf call his shot here.  He deserves that.

Pageau got the Sens a 2020 1st, 2020 2nd, and conditional 2022 3rd last season. Pageau was having a pretty great season, much better than Getzlaf is currently, but I have to think Getz still gets a 1st. Especially this year, when late 1st rounders will be even bigger unknowns than previous years. That said, Getzlaf isn't going anywhere. At this point, my only hope is that this team does not look so pathetic that Getz decides to just call it a career this summer instead of coming back for another bottom-5 finish. He deserves to end his career on a better note than this.

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I think a player who really need to ask for a trade is Cam Fowler. He is wasting his career with this team. He needs a fresh start with a contender.

Edited by FanSince1993
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2 hours ago, gorbachav5 said:

Pageau was playing much better than Getzlaf currently is and I have to think that trade was made with the Islanders expecting to re-sign him, so they were willing to trade a bit more.  I think this trade market is going to be very depressed (and depressing).

I do agree with your last sentiment.  I could see Getzlaf saying screw it to a terrible team undergoing a full rebuild.

It was super interesting to see Teemu talk about Getz in that podcast someone posted. Teemu said something along the lines of feeling bad for him right now and that he doesn't seem to have the passion Teemu was used to seeing Getz have. So, I mean, that's just Teemu observing things...but...yeah...I feel the same as Teemu. It's sad to see how unpassionate Getz seems to be right now.

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10 hours ago, Jasoaks said:

It was super interesting to see Teemu talk about Getz in that podcast someone posted. Teemu said something along the lines of feeling bad for him right now and that he doesn't seem to have the passion Teemu was used to seeing Getz have. So, I mean, that's just Teemu observing things...but...yeah...I feel the same as Teemu. It's sad to see how unpassionate Getz seems to be right now.

Would love to hear that podcast.  Could someone post that link please

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9 minutes ago, ChopSuey said:

Would love to hear that podcast.  Could someone post that link please

g20topdogg posted it on page 6 of this thread. About half way down the page.

http://fans.ducks.nhl.com/community/topic/16351-fire-murray-and-eakins-´protest´/page/6/

The part with Teemu starts around the 46 minute mark.

Edited by dtsdlaw
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42 minutes ago, ChopSuey said:

Would love to hear that podcast.  Could someone post that link please

Has some good insight on Eakins too

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1 hour ago, ike-1 said:

Has some good insight on Eakins too

Thank you!  Excellent interview.  My attitude toward Eakins (not on bungling Bob) has changed but even they agree Getz deserves to compete with a legit contender. 

Thanks again.

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2 hours ago, ChopSuey said:

Thank you!  Excellent interview.  My attitude toward Eakins (not on bungling Bob) has changed but even they agree Getz deserves to compete with a legit contender. 

Thanks again.

Give it two more games and you’ll be back on the fire him board. I was feeling better about him too after the interview, then they lost 4 in a row....ya nice guy but can’t coach.

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18 hours ago, ike-1 said:

Give it two more games and you’ll be back on the fire him board. I was feeling better about him too after the interview, then they lost 4 in a row....ya nice guy but can’t coach.

Yep! Great with the mental side...terrible in execution.

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14 minutes ago, Jasoaks said:

Yep! Great with the mental side...terrible in execution.

I would say terrible at both. This team rarely looks 100% mentally engaged, and they’re mentally defeated if they are trailing at the second intermission.

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3 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

I would say terrible at both. This team rarely looks 100% mentally engaged, and they’re mentally defeated if they are trailing at the second intermission.

i still blame the players.  it's not like Z or Drys ever looks NOT mentally engaged.  the team needs to learn how to pick itself up without relying on cheerleading behind the bench begging them to do their job.

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1 hour ago, Fisix said:

i still blame the players.  it's not like Z or Drys ever looks NOT mentally engaged.  the team needs to learn how to pick itself up without relying on cheerleading behind the bench begging them to do their job.

Players tuning out a coach and not giving their best effort is the #1 reason why NHL coaches lose their jobs. Why do you think coaching legends like Quenneville, Hitchcock, Sutter, Laviolette, etc. get fired? It's not because they're bad at Xs and Os or in-game adjustments. More often then not its because they failed to motivate their teams to be the best version of themselves.

104 games with Eakins behind the bench and the Ducks still have only one win when trailing after two periods.

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4 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

Players tuning out a coach and not giving their best effort is the #1 reason why NHL coaches lose their jobs. Why do you think coaching legends like Quenneville, Hitchcock, Sutter, Laviolette, etc. get fired? It's not because they're bad at Xs and Os or in-game adjustments. More often then not its because they failed to motivate their teams to be the best version of themselves.

104 games with Eakins behind the bench and the Ducks still have only one win when trailing after two periods.

typically, players only get the benefit of the doubt to do that once - remove their HC by not showing up at their player-job until they get the coach fired.  our veterans have tried to do it for a third time, in a row.  maybe they're trying to get a new GM as well... good luck going up against the boss's boss.  regardless, a successful franchise doesn't let the players be this fickle about their coaching, certainly not veterans as poor performing as ours (in recent years, and particularly this season).

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1 minute ago, Fisix said:

typically, players only get the benefit of the doubt to do that once - remove their HC by not showing up at their player-job until they get the coach fired.  our veterans have tried to do it for a third time, in a row.  maybe they're trying to get a new GM as well... good luck going up against the boss's boss.  regardless, a successful franchise doesn't let the players be this fickle about their coaching, certainly not veterans as poor performing as ours (in recent years, and particularly this season).

3rd time? Boudreau wasn’t fired because the players didn’t show up. They won a division title and the Jennings trophy (for fewest goals against) the year he was fired. BB was fired because, according to Bob, they wanted a better in-game bench coach who could win a game 7. But they never quit on him. I got the feeling that many guys like Fowler and Cogs were gutted that they couldn’t win that last one for Bruce.

Carlyle, players hate playing for him. You hear that from every corner of the hockey world. He also preaches an antiquated system that doesn’t work in today’s game. And of the players who supposedly vouched for him to come back, only Getzlaf is still here. I put zero blame on our vets for Carlyle’s flame-out. I also don’t think all the vets quit on Carlyle. Silf posted a career high in goals and was basically our best player in Carlyle’s final season. It’s the main reason why he got the extension.

So which vets are you accusing of doing this a 3rd time? Getzlaf? Fowler?

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I would expect veterans like Fowler and Getzlaf to ask Bob if they can be traded. Especially Fowler, who never won anything in his career.

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i think the players helped move BB out, because of the game 7 issue and the overall playoff mental absence by BB.  plus, they did quit in the game 7s - it was the first repeated instance of it i saw on the Ducks (repeated in game 7s), and it followed a bit from the fallout of Teemu and how he left the team.  that's #1, if for nothing else, wanting to move away from BB and wanting RC back.

RC - they certainly do now, and everyone on the team was visibly dogging it the last few weeks of RC's tenure.  markedly worse than earlier in that season while they were still trying.  that's #2.

now - the team did reasonably well last season in terms of showing up, but both sides were feeling each other out.  this season, the vets all revolted against the system after the first few games, and they act like they can't keep up with the play.  some are carrying injuries, but it doesn't seem that's the case very often, and clearly BM doesn't think much of their performance.  can't tell if they're revolting against the system, the coach, or at this point, the GM, or maybe just the overall gestalt, but they don't show up regularly, and it's unprofessional regardless of what you think of the coach.  that's attempt 3.  

even if you disagree about BB, they're still on round #2, and there's no justification aside from petulance.  

i get the frustration, because as you start looking closely, the problems mount up and it looks hopeless.  but, replacing Eakins isn't the bandaid that's going to make this particular mixture of players and their commitment to the game magically all better.  if these guys can't get it together for Eakins, then there isn't a coach that's going to make it better, and if they successfully bounce yet another HC, they're going to be hopeless going forward.

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1 hour ago, Fisix said:

i think the players helped move BB out, because of the game 7 issue and the overall playoff mental absence by BB.  plus, they did quit in the game 7s - it was the first repeated instance of it i saw on the Ducks (repeated in game 7s), and it followed a bit from the fallout of Teemu and how he left the team.  that's #1, if for nothing else, wanting to move away from BB and wanting RC back.

RC - they certainly do now, and everyone on the team was visibly dogging it the last few weeks of RC's tenure.  markedly worse than earlier in that season while they were still trying.  that's #2.

now - the team did reasonably well last season in terms of showing up, but both sides were feeling each other out.  this season, the vets all revolted against the system after the first few games, and they act like they can't keep up with the play.  some are carrying injuries, but it doesn't seem that's the case very often, and clearly BM doesn't think much of their performance.  can't tell if they're revolting against the system, the coach, or at this point, the GM, or maybe just the overall gestalt, but they don't show up regularly, and it's unprofessional regardless of what you think of the coach.  that's attempt 3.  

even if you disagree about BB, they're still on round #2, and there's no justification aside from petulance.  

i get the frustration, because as you start looking closely, the problems mount up and it looks hopeless.  but, replacing Eakins isn't the bandaid that's going to make this particular mixture of players and their commitment to the game magically all better.  if these guys can't get it together for Eakins, then there isn't a coach that's going to make it better, and if they successfully bounce yet another HC, they're going to be hopeless going forward.

I’ll ask again, which guys have quit twice? Name names. Just saying “the veterans” doesn’t mean anything. Silf never quit on Carlyle. Rakell has played his butt off for most of this season for Eakins.  I’d really like to know which guys you think are 2-time quitters. We should get 2-time quitters out of here. But honestly, I just don’t see it. The only guy I can really make a case for us Rico.

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16 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

I’ll ask again, which guys have quit twice? Name names. Just saying “the veterans” doesn’t mean anything. Silf never quit on Carlyle. Rakell has played his butt off for most of this season for Eakins.  I’d really like to know which guys you think are 2-time quitters. We should get 2-time quitters out of here. But honestly, I just don’t see it. The only guy I can really make a case for us Rico.

Rico is still an anomaly to me....personally, I think he's having a difficult time with the pandemic. Like, I know he's a professional and blah blah blah, but people are dying out there and that can be distracting, especially when trying to play in an EMPTY building. Each shift is a reminder of what's going on. I think some players deal with it well, and others don't. And I think Rico maybe isn't. I know i've had tough times concentrating at work with all that went on last year.

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Back to Getzy...

If GMBM pulls off a handshake deal with Getzy like he did with Grantzlaf last season, that would be amazing.  Rent him out to a contender, get some decent payback, Getz goes through ED as FA, signs on the flipside with Anaheim.  Maybe a slightly sweeter deal than he originally would have gotten (4 years instead of 3, maybe) in exchange for his troubles, but still comes back plus we have whatever we got for him in the first place.

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55 minutes ago, gotchabari said:

Back to Getzy...

If GMBM pulls off a handshake deal with Getzy like he did with Grantzlaf last season, that would be amazing.  Rent him out to a contender, get some decent payback, Getz goes through ED as FA, signs on the flipside with Anaheim.  Maybe a slightly sweeter deal than he originally would have gotten (4 years instead of 3, maybe) in exchange for his troubles, but still comes back plus we have whatever we got for him in the first place.

and, Getz is super cheap this year.  i think with all the prepayment of Salary etc., isn't his base salary this year $1M (capfriendly lists it as $3M, but isn't it prorated for the number of games)?  I don't know how the cap hit works with a trade, but he seems affordable for other teams.

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19 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

I’ll ask again, which guys have quit twice? Name names. Just saying “the veterans” doesn’t mean anything. Silf never quit on Carlyle. Rakell has played his butt off for most of this season for Eakins.  I’d really like to know which guys you think are 2-time quitters. We should get 2-time quitters out of here. But honestly, I just don’t see it. The only guy I can really make a case for us Rico.

Fowler, Manson, Lindholm (even considering their injuries), Getz, Rico, Silf, RR.  I disagree about Silf, though I'll grant you recent-RR (his scoring issues up through a few weeks ago looked horrible).  Separately, it doesn't really matter if individuals in the vet ranks participated or not - they let it happen and didn't have the leadership skills to get their veteran teammates to show up.  it's an internal team leadership thing, and the team needs to learn to pick itself up without relying on a coach or a GM to tell them daily to do their job.  a coach doesn't have a chance to be a decent coach if they're spending all their time begging players to make the minimum effort each game, each period, each and every shift.

Eakins is not making a good showing, but the players aren't helping any, and they've used up all their blame-it-on-the-coach cards (in my evaluation).  They put together a decent stretch after Hank was waived, but they're slipping back into: easier to blame adversity of some/any kind.  I'm sure exhaustion plays a part with the condensed schedule, but other teams' vets are doing better, and at this point i can only think it's because the other teams vets are focused on playing rather than being distracted and not getting the rest they need in between gametimes.  like kids sneaking staying up to play video games till midnight instead of going to sleep at regular times: they haven't bought into the idea that this is just a few months, spend all your time focused on the game, the shortened season means it's all done quickly, then back to family and whatever else. 

by dogging it, the vets are making it much harder for the team to make sound decisions going forward, regarding coaching, GM, player acquisition, you name it, and this is the most important time for the team to make sound decisions, probably setting the team up for the next decade.  it's not like the vets haven't been told this.

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1 hour ago, Fisix said:

Fowler, Manson, Lindholm (even considering their injuries), Getz, Rico, Silf, RR.  I disagree about Silf, though I'll grant you recent-RR (his scoring issues up through a few weeks ago looked horrible).  Separately, it doesn't really matter if individuals in the vet ranks participated or not - they let it happen and didn't have the leadership skills to get their veteran teammates to show up.  it's an internal team leadership thing, and the team needs to learn to pick itself up without relying on a coach or a GM to tell them daily to do their job.  a coach doesn't have a chance to be a decent coach if they're spending all their time begging players to make the minimum effort each game, each period, each and every shift.

Sorry, but I can't take your argument seriously if you include Manson/Lindholm this season and Silf in 2018-19. How has Manson quit? He's played only 8 games, 2 of which he exited early due to injuries. Lindholm has also been just fine this season, which he's also missed almost half of due to injuries. Look at the goals against average with and without Lindholm. He's clearly been one of the most important impact players for the Ducks and hasn't mailed it in at all (despite being stuck with Shatt as his partner when he's been active). Regardless, you can't blame injured players for this current mess. Injured players usually aren't even permitted to participate in team activities when they're on IR.

But the biggest reason I can't take this seriously is your feeling that Silf quit on Carlyle in 2018-19. That's a joke. He was one of the only bright spots for the Ducks that whole season, and even earned himself a big fat extension for his play during that season. GMBM's comments on re-signing him:

Quote

"He's the kind of player I like to have on the hockey team," said Ducks Executive Vice President/General Manager & Interim Head Coach Bob Murray said. "He's a 200-foot player who doesn't cheat you in any respect. Competes every night. I've been really impressed since I've been down behind the bench. He's been very impressive with his leadership abilities. Very impressive. He doesn't like to lose. He doesn't accept losing."

https://www.nhl.com/ducks/news/ducks-sign-silfverberg-to-five-year-contract-extension/c-305401004. That was just 18 days after Carlyle was fired. Silf didn't dog it for 56 games to get Carlyle fired and then earn a 5-year, $26.25M contract just because he played 8 good games with GMBM behind the bench. That's ludicrous. Regardless of what you think about Silf's play this season, he worked his butt off in 2018-19.

The bottom line for my disagreement with you though is about vets v. kids. Frankly, I think this team sucks more because the kids' talent was badly overestimated, not because of the vets. Steel is a borderline NHLer, yet was gifted a 2C role out of training camp. Terry is not a top-line forward, yet he was gifted the spot on Getzlaf's RW. Lundestrom, though improving, is still barely an every day NHL player and would probably be a frequent healthy scratch on a good team. And don't get me started on Larsson, who had started 48 straight games before covid protocols finally did what Eakins/GMBM should have done 47 games games ago. The vets aren't dogging it to get Eakins fired. They've been surrounded with inferior talent, which has dragged down their play like a giant boat anchor. Heck, even Hakanpaa (who I was a HUGE fan of earlier this season) has had his play fall off a cliff the past dozen games or so, and its taken Fowler right over the edge with him. If you want good players to play well, surround them with other good players. If you want good players to struggle, you do what GMBM and Eakins have done to our veterans.

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14 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

Sorry, but I can't take your argument seriously if you include Manson/Lindholm this season and Silf in 2018-19. How has Manson quit? He's played only 8 games, 2 of which he exited early due to injuries. Lindholm has also been just fine this season, which he's also missed almost half of due to injuries. Look at the goals against average with and without Lindholm. He's clearly been one of the most important impact players for the Ducks and hasn't mailed it in at all (despite being stuck with Shatt as his partner when he's been active). Regardless, you can't blame injured players for this current mess. Injured players usually aren't even permitted to participate in team activities when they're on IR.

But the biggest reason I can't take this seriously is your feeling that Silf quit on Carlyle in 2018-19. That's a joke. He was one of the only bright spots for the Ducks that whole season, and even earned himself a big fat extension for his play during that season. GMBM's comments on re-signing him:

https://www.nhl.com/ducks/news/ducks-sign-silfverberg-to-five-year-contract-extension/c-305401004. That was just 18 days after Carlyle was fired. Silf didn't dog it for 56 games to get Carlyle fired and then earn a 5-year, $26.25M contract just because he played 8 good games with GMBM behind the bench. That's ludicrous. Regardless of what you think about Silf's play this season, he worked his butt off in 2018-19.

The bottom line for my disagreement with you though is about vets v. kids. Frankly, I think this team sucks more because the kids' talent was badly overestimated, not because of the vets. Steel is a borderline NHLer, yet was gifted a 2C role out of training camp. Terry is not a top-line forward, yet he was gifted the spot on Getzlaf's RW. Lundestrom, though improving, is still barely an every day NHL player and would probably be a frequent healthy scratch on a good team. And don't get me started on Larsson, who had started 48 straight games before covid protocols finally did what Eakins/GMBM should have done 47 games games ago. The vets aren't dogging it to get Eakins fired. They've been surrounded with inferior talent, which has dragged down their play like a giant boat anchor. Heck, even Hakanpaa (who I was a HUGE fan of earlier this season) has had his play fall off a cliff the past dozen games or so, and its taken Fowler right over the edge with him. If you want good players to play well, surround them with other good players. If you want good players to struggle, you do what GMBM and Eakins have done to our veterans.

on Silf - he got the pay raise because he knew he had to shine to get a decent contract - the other players dogging it helped that.  my beef with him and the rest of the listed players, is that they let the dogging happen.  Kesler was dealing with his hips and had nothing else to give, and that settles that, for me.  Silf didn't get the other vets on the team to work, so while it's laudable that he at least didn't let himself slide, he was part of the team slide, and he was a legitimate veteran player.  Getz played like Getz, but he let the team slide too.  they all bear some of the blame, and they all, to a one, skated like molasses in the last few games for RC (right after BM indicated he wanted RC to make it to the end the season).

on the injured d-men - you're measuring on a sliding scale, no?  i don't give them a pass just because their stats appear better than the Shatts'.  they haven't been close to 100% even when they aren't officially injured.

aside from that, the reason why i blame the highly paid vets over the kids is because i've seen the vets play long enough to know they can play better AND that they can dredge up better results from their line mates, even the ones we have on hand to field with them now.  the vets are absolutely part of the development team that's supposed to grab the kids by the shorties and haul them up into passable NHL players - if the vets aren't playing that role in the team, then i guess we've found the difference between our development pipeline and Chicago's - if your vets aren't out there working and developing the kids, then your team is going to suck it (especially with recent draftees).  aside from that, though, I've watched the $$vets long enough to see and know when they are dogging it during games, and they have been.  they've been rebelling against the system since just after the first few games this season, and they've also been rebelling against lineup choices, in what i see as plain petulance.  it's not uniform player by player, game after game, or even shift after shift, but you can definitely see it when it happens, and it's happened too often this season.  i see it as the $$vets wanting to boot the system and the coach because they're being asked to work more than they think they should, or differently from what they want to focus on, and that's the same kind of revolt that's led to prior coaches getting the boot.

Larsson - I have no idea why he's been played so much, other than that with the injuries we've had, he might be what we're stuck with.  He's already qualified to be exposed... I can only think that they're desperate for him to get marginally better so as to present better trade fodder/filler than he does now, just like with the Shatt.  I'm super glad Larsson and Hutton have to sit for now, I wish we could see Guhle.

If you watch Hak's performance over the past month and a half?, you can see him get injured.. 8 games ago?  Banged up.  I think it was around when both Manson and Lindholm went out injured.  His play is less than stellar right now (but still better than Larsson and Hutton!) because he hasn't been given time to heal, is my guess.  He still shows up to play each game (in my opinion); i think he's just playing hobbled.

Finally - the bolded:  you're just saying good players play good - tautologies aren't informative.

i think surrounding good players with other good players is great if you have or can pay for enough good players to field the team, but that's not how it works in a rebuild and when you're developing a mass of players at the same time (which we have no choice about - that's our lot).  At those times, the "good" players (as measured under the metric we are under now, as a rebuild team) are the ones that make their line mates better by bootstrapping them into better NHL players.  From the stuff I've read, Boston, Chicago, and the Capitals? and some other teams have good systems in place for that - a player on player training system (usually organized by lines, but a hierarchy within the players, not a coach driven mechanic).  Systems can obviously falter during a rebuild when you lose pillars within the ranks, but the dedication to developing the system pays dividends, and the Ducks haven't had that kind of system for years and years, not like other teams have had, and not that i've seen.  i think the evidence of that is how poorly we've developed forwards and even some younger promising defensemen.  BM and Eakins are focused on trying to change that, and they want it completed by the end of this season.  I think that focus explains a lot about lineup choices and TOI stats.

Anyway, the times when we've played the worst this season are when the vets have played poorly (aside from some abysmal defensive stuff), not when it's just been the rooks playing young.  The team is making the vets responsible both for their own performance and the performance of their younger line mates, and it's not unfair to hold the $$vets responsible when they aren't getting their job done.

We lost Kesler before planned, Perry noped out, and Getz and the other highly paid vet forwards didn't pick up the training mantle, not with both hands, not that I've seen.  I think part of the reason why Grant and Rowney and others of the lower payed vets get so much important ice time is because they've committed more fully to playing the development part (off ice counts too), and my guess is that the new emphasis on what the $$vets should be dedicating their time towards is the root of the struggle on and behind the bench we're all seeing. 

Maybe you can disagree with the philosophy, but i think the new team mechanic is what BM wants in place before he exits, because he thinks that's the best way to get through the rebuild quickly and set the team up for long term (eventual) success.  I don't think the general complaints about Eakins properly contemplate what the team's focus is right now, and the part I disagree most with is the complaints about Eakins coupled with almost blind devotion to the $$ vets when, at least to me, they just aren't doing their job well (the one i've noted above). 

I admit there's plenty of room for the younger players to just not be good enough, but I swear, half the chaff in this forum is about how poorly we develop younger players, and how they do better after they're traded, and i think it's crazy talk to lay that solely at the feet of the coaching, especially when what I see is the $$vets not doing their part during the games (well, not doing their part consistently, anyway - I see it working sometimes, just not enough to make me happy with the effort).  I'm still hopeful, though, and I think there are signs the $$vets are starting to realize they have no choice but to buy in.

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I'm impressed by how many fans that post have their doctorate in psychology. They know how the players and management "think" and "feel" better than anybody.

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1 hour ago, dukitup said:

I'm impressed by how many fans that post have their doctorate in psychology. They know how the players and management "think" and "feel" better than anybody.

I don't think there's anything wrong with fans coming to a message board to express their frustrations and own personal feelings towards what is happening and discussing what is going on and coming up with theories and ideas based off of what they see, hear, read -- it's a way to vent and process this disappointment, doctorate or not.

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33 minutes ago, Jasoaks said:

I don't think there's anything wrong with fans coming to a message board to express their frustrations and own personal feelings towards what is happening and discussing what is going on and coming up with theories and ideas based off of what they see, hear, read -- it's a way to vent and process this disappointment, doctorate or not.

I think its a fair criticism when the discussion strays too far into imaginary scenarios about what players are thinking/feeling, especially in the absence of any facts to back up that speculation. That said, I'm not in favor of stifling discussion or debate either. As you say, its a message board. People can participate or not participate as they see fit. Also, this organization brings this kind of speculation upon itself with how tight-lipped and secretive it is. GMBM has always given us fans only scraps of info to chew on, and now this season the press hasn't even been allowed at training camp or practices. Information voids will always be filled with speculation.

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1 hour ago, dtsdlaw said:

I think its a fair criticism when the discussion strays too far into imaginary scenarios about what players are thinking/feeling, especially in the absence of any facts to back up that speculation. That said, I'm not in favor of stifling discussion or debate either. As you say, its a message board. People can participate or not participate as they see fit. Also, this organization brings this kind of speculation upon itself with how tight-lipped and secretive it is. GMBM has always given us fans only scraps of info to chew on, and now this season the press hasn't even been allowed at training camp or practices. Information voids will always be filled with speculation.

THIS. 

It's one thing to apply a personal feeling to the team. I have no issue with that. But it's the assertive statement as to how the PLAYERS are thinking/feeling that get me. Unless you're sitting in the locker room with them, it's all conjecture with zero evidence.

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8 hours ago, dukitup said:

I'm impressed by how many fans that post have their doctorate in psychology. They know how the players and management "think" and "feel" better than anybody.

i guess that's one way to mischaracterize the series of deductions i posted, all based on what we've seen play out on the ice and at the various press conferences held by, and other conversations with, BM.  the quoted language also apparently infers that the "coach has lost the room" posts that've been made fairly consistently since the RC days aren't all fairly dated assumptions about NHL player psychology; that inference doesn't seem like a reasonable take.

people blaming Eakins for the current team dynamic and performance are in denial about how weak the team is, and in particular, how weakly our vets have been playing.  people wanting to swap Eakins out for another coach are inferring a bunch of team psychology effects (magically occurring after such swap) that have no basis in how the team dynamic has worked since before BB was fired.

it doesn't take a psychology doctorate to figure out that BM is piddleed at the vets, and it also doesn't take a psychology doctorate to figure that it's because he's asked them to do something that he thinks they can do, but that he thinks they aren't doing.  it also doesn't take a doctorate in team history to figure out that BM's displeasure with the current veteran lineup has been around for more than 2 seasons.

deducing from that very reasonable set of knowns that our current performance and team dynamic is all Eakins' fault (or even that it's all BM's fault) doesn't make any sense.  furthermore, none of the coaching changes we've seen in the NHL over the past 3-4 years indicates a coaching change with this team and under these conditions would get the Ducks where we want them to go.  at best, some other coach could come in and maybe scrape together a few extra wins over the course of this season, but it'd cost throwing the entire team development plan completely out the window. 

no matter what the Ducks do, it's going to take more time than what they've used so far to get out of the pit.  i wish Eakins had gotten a fairer shake by the veterans on the team, and while that dynamic takes two to tango (or tank), based on what i've seen watching most (98%, 99%?) of the home games in person over the past 5 years, i put the blame for any failings in that dynamic on the veterans - they've proven (to me) that they aren't as self-reliant, as a group, as vets on other teams, both in terms of policing their own game by game performance AND in terms of assisting the team in turning rookies into dependable, highly performing NHL players.  they need to turn that around under Eakins before I'll feel they'll be able to take additional steps under a better coach.

that last is about my psychology, not the teams'.

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