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Getzlaf’s Future

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22 minutes ago, gotchabari said:

I get it when it's a feeling of frustration.  I just get frustrated myself when our assumptions and frustrations are presented as fact.  This time of year is painful to watch us get bent out of shape mostly on snowballing one assumption into many others.

It was a prospect and a first, and he didn't score for the entire end of the season for the Hawks, and scored fewer goals than Cogs and the same as Thompson by the end of the WCF that year, the Centers he would have replaced.  And Thompson had a better face-off %.  He scored two more against Tampa.  See?  We're still piddleed about that when it wouldn't have likely made a difference.  In fact, we probably would have been piddleed that we lost a first-rounder (and prospect) for some who did no better than the players he replaced, and possibly worse due to Cogs superior forechecking and PK and Thompson's PK and FO.

We're also assuming that Bob didn't offer a similar package and was simply declined.  Or maybe Vermette made a request.

I'll bypass Vermette and go back to Kesler in 2014. If we had brought in Kesler at the deadline instead of the following off-season, the Ducks beat the Kings in the playoffs that year. So not only would Anaheim have been contending for a Cup, they would have prevented the dirty Kings from winning another one. Really, that's the biggest fireable offense of them all.

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2 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

Some years you can look at what else was moved around the league and then feel like we've missed out. Like when many of us wanted Vermette in 2015, but Bob didn't want to give up the 1st rounder that Arizona was asking (ours became Jacob Larsson <_<). We could then look in hindsight at the fact that Chicago ended up giving up their 1st rounder for Vermette (and winning the Cup) and be ticked off that GMBM didn't pull that trade off.

But this year, oh boy is it obvious that the trades just weren't there! All that chatter before the TDL was about the prospects that Bob could have gotten for Manson or Rakell, like Robertson or Amirov from Toronto. But it was all bogus wishing. There wasn't a single A-, or B-level prospect traded at the TDL league-wide. There were also only two players acquired by playoff-bound teams who had that golden "extra year of playoff run" in them that was supposedly going to get the Ducks what they need to return to glory - Curtis Lazar (a throw-in on the Taylor Hall deal who is making $800K) and Jeff Carter (37 y/o who is rumored to be retiring after this season). So it wasn't just Rakell and Manson that didn't get moved. It was Max Domi, Dustin Brown, Rasmus Ristolainen, Olli Maata, Ryan Strome, Will Butcher, Chris Tierney, and on and on. There was just no appetite for rentals with that extra year remaining, and no teams wanted to give up good prospects before the expansion draft. All the belly-aching about Bob not doing anything... there was nothing to be done! Let's move on and see what happens this summer, when the prospects are back in play for most teams.

I fully expect to see a lot of player movement out of Anaheim this summer.

And if we don't....well....I guess I'll just keep on calling for Bob's head? I dunno.

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Just now, nieder said:

I fully expect to see a lot of player movement out of Anaheim this summer.

And if we don't....well....I guess I'll just keep on calling for Bob's head? I dunno.

Sounds like a plan to me!👍

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30 minutes ago, gotchabari said:

It was a prospect and a first, and he didn't score for the entire end of the season for the Hawks, and scored fewer goals than Cogs and the same as Thompson by the end of the WCF that year, the Centers he would have replaced.  And Thompson had a better face-off %.  He scored two more against Tampa.  See?  We're still piddleed about that when it wouldn't have likely made a difference.  In fact, we probably would have been piddleed that we lost a first-rounder (and prospect) for some who did no better than the players he replaced, and possibly worse due to Cogs superior forechecking and PK and Thompson's PK and FO.

well....at least they wouldn't have had Vermette when they played us lol...

6 minutes ago, nieder said:

I'll bypass Vermette and go back to Kesler in 2014. If we had brought in Kesler at the deadline instead of the following off-season, the Ducks beat the Kings in the playoffs that year. So not only would Anaheim have been contending for a Cup, they would have prevented the dirty Kings from winning another one. Really, that's the biggest fireable offense of them all.

I believe i heard for that the deal was all set and done for the TDL and then the Vancouver owners stepped in last minute and nixed it. Pushed it to summer. 

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28 minutes ago, nieder said:

I'll bypass Vermette and go back to Kesler in 2014. If we had brought in Kesler at the deadline instead of the following off-season, the Ducks beat the Kings in the playoffs that year. So not only would Anaheim have been contending for a Cup, they would have prevented the dirty Kings from winning another one. Really, that's the biggest fireable offense of them all.

Except at the deadline they were asking for way more, including pieces that could have caused us to lose to the Kings anyway (which was a stupid defenseman's fault, really... that wasn't due to missing Kesler).

There's lot's of ifs and buts where we only consider one part of the equation, whereas GMBM has to consider it all.

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Looking at his vid reading his comments appears from my POV Getzlaf is putting our Ducks First and is willing to serve as  "Mentor" to Next Generation of Ducks.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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After all this, I have zero confidence that anything will be any different at this time next year.  The coaching staff will remain, the GM will remain - he's like "Bob" from the Bill Murray movie "What about Bob?"  I remember the line: "Gone?  He's not gone.  He's never gone" (Bob was indeed knocking at the door wanting to get in)...

It would be nice to have changes and a team that can actually play hockey with a system and effective, exciting hockey - one of the all time greatest sports in history.  Guys that can skate like the wind and shoot a little disc over 100 miles an hour and no breaks to change players.  It's awesome.  Watching the ducks play, not so much...

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6 hours ago, gotchabari said:

I get it when it's a feeling of frustration.  I just get frustrated myself when our assumptions and frustrations are presented as fact.  This time of year is painful to watch us get bent out of shape mostly on snowballing one assumption into many others.

It was a prospect and a first, and he didn't score for the entire end of the season for the Hawks, and scored fewer goals than Cogs and the same as Thompson by the end of the WCF that year, the Centers he would have replaced.  And Thompson had a better face-off %.  He scored two more against Tampa.  See?  We're still piddleed about that when it wouldn't have likely made a difference.  In fact, we probably would have been piddleed that we lost a first-rounder (and prospect) for some who did no better than the players he replaced, and possibly worse due to Cogs superior forechecking and PK and Thompson's PK and FO.

We're also assuming that Bob didn't offer a similar package and was simply declined.  Or maybe Vermette made a request.

I mean, the dude was nominated again for the Jim Gregory that year, after having won it.  That is chosen by all the other GMs, who know what went on behind the scenes, and they thought he was one of the best three GMs of that year.  I mean, yes I get frustration, but at some point we need to know that we know barely anything that goes on behind the scenes, and when those that do select him for awards and nominations, maybe we're wrong about our assumtpions?    

Agreed here.  I'm glad we didn't panic with the garbage that was floating around.

My example of Vermette is just to point out the difference between being upset over (a) a situation where a specific player is known to be available and your team has the assets to get that player but doesn’t, and (b) a situation where fans get upset over the GM not doing something that was never possible in the first place. For example, I’ve seen outrage on social media that Bob didn’t trade Rakell to Toronto for a 1st and one of their top prospects (usually its Robertson or Amirov brought up). Meanwhile, Elliotte Friedman said on his post-TDL 31 Thoughts podcast that Dubas had made it clear to other GMs that he had no interest in moving Robertson, Amirov, Sandin, or Liljegren at the TDL, so the outrage has no basis in fact at all. There are plenty of reasons to criticize the GM, but failing to pull off a mythical trade that was never possible in the first place is not one of them.

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IF Getzlaf re-signs for less. I expect him to serve as role of Ducks Mentor. For Next Generation of Ducks they must know what it means to play for our Team. Getz is perhaps the key.

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12 hours ago, hoxxey said:

After all this, I have zero confidence that anything will be any different at this time next year.  The coaching staff will remain, the GM will remain - he's like "Bob" from the Bill Murray movie "What about Bob?"  I remember the line: "Gone?  He's not gone.  He's never gone" (Bob was indeed knocking at the door wanting to get in)...

It would be nice to have changes and a team that can actually play hockey with a system and effective, exciting hockey - one of the all time greatest sports in history.  Guys that can skate like the wind and shoot a little disc over 100 miles an hour and no breaks to change players.  It's awesome.  Watching the ducks play, not so much...

I don't know if we'll see changes to the GM or head coach, but I'd bet my right arm that there will be changes to the assistants. I also 100% expect a big move via trade or free agency. There's a ton of cap space available next season to add a high end player. GMBM has also been trying for a while to make a big move (see, e.g., Faulk, Dubois) and he knows he needs to add some top end talent via trade if this team is ever going to be good again under his leadership. I will be absolutely shocked if nothing significant happens this offseason.

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1 hour ago, dtsdlaw said:

I don't know if we'll see changes to the GM or head coach, but I'd bet my right arm that there will be changes to the assistants. I also 100% expect a big move via trade or free agency. There's a ton of cap space available next season to add a high end player. GMBM has also been trying for a while to make a big move (see, e.g., Faulk, Dubois) and he knows he needs to add some top end talent via trade if this team is ever going to be good again under his leadership. I will be absolutely shocked if nothing significant happens this offseason.

Yeah, I’ve already come to grips that Murray will be back and so will Eakins. Axing the assistants (which is warranted) is a nice way to marginally improve the team while Murray can show he’s doing something.

The ship has sailed on this group. Murray’s contract is up after next year and unless they extend him *prays to the heavens that they don’t* then I’d bet the farm that the Ducks aren’t going to be considerably better and competing for a playoff spot by then. Getzlaf, Manson, Rakell, Lindholm’s futures are all uncertain and there’s no cogent plan or messaging as to what Murray’s doing. The free agency class this year is meh and unless the team wants to give up Zegras/Drysdale then they aren’t getting a star player (Dubois, Eichel etc). If Murray is really on the hot seat then I don’t get why ownership would let him make consequential long-term decisions. I agree that he might do something short sided to try and save his job and then Madden or whoever comes in will have to deal with it.

 

 

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unless Z and Drys have changed his personal outlook, i think both BM and ownership agree that this is his last contract period with the team.  if he stays on after that, it'll just be as interim until the team finds someone (never know if it might be difficult to find someone wanting the job). 

i would have guessed that BM and ownership were already thinking they'll replace him after the ED but before BM's contract is up - basically to buy him out for a fresh start for the team and as sort of a bonus for a decent ED strategy (if that's what's forthcoming).  but, upon more thought, i think BM would view that as leaving Eakins out to dry, so to protect Eakins and allow Eakins one more season to show performance, BM will probably try see out his contract term.

i think we're measuring team staff performance differently than BM and ownership and what their expectations were for this season.  that said, the assistants just don't seem to be able to develop improvement in the PP or the younger D lines.  i'm 50-50 on hiring new assistants before BM's contract expires.  if Eakins wants new ones, then i think it'll happen.  otherwise, i don't think anyone wants to burden the ownership with whatever financial issues there'd be potentially ending brand new assistant coach contracts when a new GM comes in.  if that's not really an issue (i don't know what the terms are for Assistant coach contracts), then i'd revise my 50-50 to 100-0 that we get at least one (and probably more than one) new assistant coach before training camp.

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I think (and hope) Getzy is going to take the Teemu route. A short extension (1, maybe 2 years) with a hometown discount. If he still wants it afterwards I can see him stay a little longer. 

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46 minutes ago, DucksFan_08 said:

I think (and hope) Getzy is going to take the Teemu route. A short extension (1, maybe 2 years) with a hometown discount. If he still wants it afterwards I can see him stay a little longer. 

I don't see it the same way, better he retires. his body is weak (he has more injuries, in 3 of the last 4 years at least 15 games not played) and he has some games I not even noticed him (the points falling from season to season in the last 3 seasons). its better for the future, a spot is open for a younger player. give him a staff job or something like that if you want to keep him around.

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2 hours ago, Spike1981 said:

I don't see it the same way, better he retires. his body is weak (he has more injuries, in 3 of the last 4 years at least 15 games not played) and he has some games I not even noticed him (the points falling from season to season in the last 3 seasons). its better for the future, a spot is open for a younger player. give him a staff job or something like that if you want to keep him around.

Nothing wrong to keep him around...he can help give advice to the younger Ducks Players and Prospects in the future.

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8 hours ago, Spike1981 said:

I don't see it the same way, better he retires. his body is weak (he has more injuries, in 3 of the last 4 years at least 15 games not played) and he has some games I not even noticed him (the points falling from season to season in the last 3 seasons). its better for the future, a spot is open for a younger player. give him a staff job or something like that if you want to keep him around.

Yeah, I think a weak Getzy is better than a lot of players.  So he's not the #1 C.  Teemu was 3rd line with PP time during his year-by-year extensions.  Assuming the price is right, Getzy would be great in the same roles (as well as PK).  Definitely still valuable at $4-5M.  

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3 hours ago, gotchabari said:

Yeah, I think a weak Getzy is better than a lot of players.  So he's not the #1 C.  Teemu was 3rd line with PP time during his year-by-year extensions.  Assuming the price is right, Getzy would be great in the same roles (as well as PK).  Definitely still valuable at $4-5M.  

I do remember in Selanne's later years...it seemed like he was becoming more of a liability than a threat...I mean, no one wanted to see him go emotionally speaking...but...i distinctly remember some being like "we need to stop re-signing him and use the space/money for someone else" ...obviously that could have something to do with his issues with BB and how he was used...which he was NOT happy about...but we also did make it to the WCF game 7 the first season he was gone (although, arguably more from a more stable situation in net/Kesler).

I think some of Getz' lack of points lately is more from the way he's been used than him becoming less talented. Both are factors, sure, but I think he'd just be putting up better numbers with more consistent/better linemates and the task of taking control of the game more. He looks like he's holding back.

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8 hours ago, Jasoaks said:

I do remember in Selanne's later years...it seemed like he was becoming more of a liability than a threat...I mean, no one wanted to see him go emotionally speaking...but...i distinctly remember some being like "we need to stop re-signing him and use the space/money for someone else" ...obviously that could have something to do with his issues with BB and how he was used...which he was NOT happy about...but we also did make it to the WCF game 7 the first season he was gone (although, arguably more from a more stable situation in net/Kesler).

I think some of Getz' lack of points lately is more from the way he's been used than him becoming less talented. Both are factors, sure, but I think he'd just be putting up better numbers with more consistent/better linemates and the task of taking control of the game more. He looks like he's holding back.

yeah, every linemate with McDavid makes more points.... but he had still Rakell, Comtois, Terry ect. on the wings, so the quality of his linemates is not an excuse.

 

12 hours ago, gotchabari said:

Definitely still valuable at $4-5M.  

if resign, maximum 1,5 Mio and only for one season.

but I wouldn't resign him, he is over as I said before (more injuries and less points). his game isn't the same as Teemu's was, his game is more physically and his body is earlier over than a winger like Teemu. I don't understand why they said "the offer was not enough to trade Getzy"... EVERY pick for Getzy is worth to trade him, I would even take a 7th rounder! but I think the offer was a 2nd or 3th with retain some salary... or even better...

12 hours ago, gotchabari said:

I think a weak Getzy is better than a lot of players.

no, better young players to take over! we must build for the future, not keeping the oldies here to WASTE a roster spot in a time we win NOTHING! we should finally start with the real rebuild!!!

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2 hours ago, Spike1981 said:

yeah, every linemate with McDavid makes more points.... but he had still Rakell, Comtois, Terry ect. on the wings, so the quality of his linemates is not an excuse.

 

if resign, maximum 1,5 Mio and only for one season.

but I wouldn't resign him, he is over as I said before (more injuries and less points). his game isn't the same as Teemu's was, his game is more physically and his body is earlier over than a winger like Teemu. I don't understand why they said "the offer was not enough to trade Getzy"... EVERY pick for Getzy is worth to trade him, I would even take a 7th rounder! but I think the offer was a 2nd or 3th with retain some salary... or even better...

no, better young players to take over! we must build for the future, not keeping the oldies here to WASTE a roster spot in a time we win NOTHING! we should finally start with the real rebuild!!!

I'm sorry but there's a lot of nonsense in this post. If you want to trade Getzlaf for a 7th I'm glad BM is our GM. That is absolute and utter bs.
Sure Getzlaf isn't as good as McDavid in his prime but nobody is.

His numbers are down but everybody's numbers are down. 
Getzlaf has had injuries but that's a Ducks problem. Who on this team hasn't had an injury? I don't know what we're doing wrong but it's insane.

We have to start the rebuild I'll give you that but Getzlaf should be part of that as long as he wants. Somebody has to mentor these kids. No disrespect to Sam Steel (who is still young and has room and time to improve) but do you want Zegras to learn from him or from Ryan Getzlaf, Stanley Cup winner and Hart Trophy runner-up. 

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4 hours ago, Spike1981 said:

 

no, better young players to take over! we must build for the future, not keeping the oldies here to WASTE a roster spot in a time we win NOTHING! we should finally start with the real rebuild!!!

Name one rebuild that was only young skaters and didn't include vets.

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38 minutes ago, gotchabari said:

Name one rebuild that was only young skaters and didn't include vets.

None...imho I mean if you includ Junior Hockey then hey it involves some vets some they were in their early 20's or turn 20.

DuckPride 4ever

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6 hours ago, DucksFan_08 said:

I'm sorry but there's a lot of nonsense in this post. If you want to trade Getzlaf for a 7th I'm glad BM is our GM. That is absolute and utter bs.
Sure Getzlaf isn't as good as McDavid in his prime but nobody is.

His numbers are down but everybody's numbers are down. 
Getzlaf has had injuries but that's a Ducks problem. Who on this team hasn't had an injury? I don't know what we're doing wrong but it's insane.

We have to start the rebuild I'll give you that but Getzlaf should be part of that as long as he wants. Somebody has to mentor these kids. No disrespect to Sam Steel (who is still young and has room and time to improve) but do you want Zegras to learn from him or from Ryan Getzlaf, Stanley Cup winner and Hart Trophy runner-up. 

BS? THIS Season is OVER, nothing to win for, even we would win 1 or 2 games because Getzlaf (what is very doubtful because of his performance this season), it not help us for the future, the opposite is the case, it hurts our draft position! and if you have a 7th or nothing at the end of this season? what is better? especially in a draft you can pick late some good players because lack of scouting.... and I don't believe Vegas only offered a 7th! maybe a 3th, retain salary and it was too few for some people.... and that would be a no-brainer, even a 4th is a no-brainer! but we don't know what Vegas offered and maybe never will know it...

I not saying: all vets should go out, but we have 4 forwards, 3 defense and some goalie as Vets... too much... 3 or 4 you can give away...

and its fact that Getzlaf lost at least 15 games in 3 of the last 4 seasons with injuries, before he hasn't a lot.

 

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2 hours ago, Spike1981 said:

BS? THIS Season is OVER, nothing to win for, even we would win 1 or 2 games because Getzlaf (what is very doubtful because of his performance this season), it not help us for the future, the opposite is the case, it hurts our draft position! and if you have a 7th or nothing at the end of this season? what is better? especially in a draft you can pick late some good players because lack of scouting.... and I don't believe Vegas only offered a 7th! maybe a 3th, retain salary and it was too few for some people.... and that would be a no-brainer, even a 4th is a no-brainer! but we don't know what Vegas offered and maybe never will know it...

I not saying: all vets should go out, but we have 4 forwards, 3 defense and some goalie as Vets... too much... 3 or 4 you can give away...

and its fact that Getzlaf lost at least 15 games in 3 of the last 4 seasons with injuries, before he hasn't a lot.

 

You're assuming that Bob could trade him for anything when in actuality he has a nmc. We don't know for sure under what circumstances he was willing to move so there's no point I'm arguing that. Getzy is the heart and soul of the team to give him away for peanuts is about the dumbest thing anyone could do. Moving forward we need leadership that he obviously provides. He no longer needs to put up big points and he's just not an elite player anymore but he's not washed up. He's going to take a pay cut but for 1.5 mill? Lol if we flat out low ball him like that no one will ever sign here. 

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he wanted stay in the near, he waived his NMC, I am almost sure Vegas tried it and I think they put at least a 4th rounder. don't get me wrong, he made great things for our Ducks. but he now would bring us more if he got traded for picks. we have nothing to win or lose this saison. if you want his leadership, you could resign him in that summer. but for that you can also have an assistent trainer or a Deslauriers who is cheaper and not has a lot trade value...

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1 hour ago, Spike1981 said:

he wanted stay in the near, he waived his NMC, I am almost sure Vegas tried it and I think they put at least a 4th rounder. don't get me wrong, he made great things for our Ducks. but he now would bring us more if he got traded for picks. we have nothing to win or lose this saison. if you want his leadership, you could resign him in that summer. but for that you can also have an assistent trainer or a Deslauriers who is cheaper and not has a lot trade value...

Getz wants to be a one team guy, but was still willing to waive his NMC in order to benefit the organization. It's really quite amazing that he even gave Bob that option. To trade him for just a late round pick would be an insult. That's not going to really benefit the organization very much, so really doesn't fit the requirements of Getz waiting his NMC. Heck, we could get a late draft pick by trading spare parts like Larsson. Why would we do that to Getz, and why would he want to come back if we took advantage of him that way? I feel like you are completely overlooking the level of respect that Getz has earned in this organization. 

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4 hours ago, nieder said:

Getz wants to be a one team guy, but was still willing to waive his NMC in order to benefit the organization. It's really quite amazing that he even gave Bob that option. To trade him for just a late round pick would be an insult. That's not going to really benefit the organization very much, so really doesn't fit the requirements of Getz waiting his NMC. Heck, we could get a late draft pick by trading spare parts like Larsson. Why would we do that to Getz, and why would he want to come back if we took advantage of him that way? I feel like you are completely overlooking the level of respect that Getz has earned in this organization. 

+200

I was also seeing that the Knights had like... $100k in cap space? lol like...they would have had to send over like Wild Bill (lol) and we'd still have to retain 50%...i mean, Bob saying "there was nothing there" could have literally just been "it was almost literally impossible" and then add on top that Getz' terms of what he'd be willing to waive for.

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6 hours ago, nieder said:

Getz wants to be a one team guy, but was still willing to waive his NMC in order to benefit the organization. It's really quite amazing that he even gave Bob that option. To trade him for just a late round pick would be an insult. That's not going to really benefit the organization very much, so really doesn't fit the requirements of Getz waiting his NMC. Heck, we could get a late draft pick by trading spare parts like Larsson. Why would we do that to Getz, and why would he want to come back if we took advantage of him that way? I feel like you are completely overlooking the level of respect that Getz has earned in this organization. 

still not believe that was a late pick, 3th or 4th rounder. but every pick would benefit the Ducks. He said, he wanted the best for the organization, then a additional pick and he can resign for 1-2 mio a one year deal. yes he did a lot, but this is a business and you have to do the best for the team. I am still think, even a later pick would be better then keep him for this season here. there are 14 or 15 games, thats nothing! 15 senseless games or a pick in summer? by the way, they also buy out Perry and he did also a lot for the team, is that better?

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Once this season concludes....our Ducks and Getzlaf need to sit down and talk where to go from here....Let's be honest his 8 year contract is over...and Once they talk about resiging he may take discount to stay.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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2 hours ago, MooseDuck said:

Once this season concludes....our Ducks and Getzlaf need to sit down and talk where to go from here....Let's be honest his 8 year contract is over...and Once they talk about resiging he may take discount to stay.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

what I say, if you want resign him, 1 year 1-2 mio., not more. if he doesn't want for 2 mio, let him go.

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1 hour ago, Spike1981 said:

what I say, if you want resign him, 1 year 1-2 mio., not more. if he doesn't want for 2 mio, let him go.

Agree. His contribution to this franchise is remarkable, but it's a sport business, not a charity. If his agent thinks he worth more, welcome to hit an open market.  P.S. same applies to Steel and Larsson. 10% raise per CBA rules, and if they want more - welcome to Europe.

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