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Should we go after Jack Eichel?

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23 minutes ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

I guess my question is how are the Ducks that much better than Buffalo right now? We just came off a historically bad season and if there was any other franchise that Eichel couldn’t alter then it’s this one especially with all signs pointing to Murray and Eakins not going anywhere before next season. 
 

The Ducks got Pronger the year after they lost to him and the Oilers in the WCF, where he absolutely dominated. He was the missing piece to a puzzle here that had clearly taken shape. It’s a vastly different situation now if they went after Eichel as the Ducks aren’t anywhere close to having those kind of pieces, in particular ones equivalent to Getzlaf/Perry, who we drafted and didn’t give up major assets to get. Are we even able to trade for Pronger if we had to trade for one or both of the twins? The Ducks would have to mortgage their future for Eichel and rely on guys like Henrique, Silfverberg who will both be 31 and on the back 9 of their careers as well, Rakell who can walk next summer while putting a ton of pressure on Zegras and Drysdale to do heavy lifting in their first full seasons. Also, it just seems very unusual that a team going through the painful development stage of a rebuild like the Ducks are a big trade or two away from getting out of it. It’s just not ideal and the risk is way too high, imo. 
 

I’d rather reassess making major moves to upgrade this team next summer after Zegras/Drysdale go through their first full NHL seasons and hopefully with a new GM.

Your question is an easy one. We have an elite #1 goaltender. They do not. Cam Fowler and Hampus Lindholm are both better than their best defensemen. Our three best veteran players have not requested a trade (ala Eichel, Reinhart, and Ristolainen). We still have seven starters who played on our last team to make the Western Conference Finals, while Buffalo has zero players that have ever played a playoff game with the franchise. We don't have a disgruntled Jeff Skinner playing on the 4th line for $9 million per season for the next six years, or Kyle Okposo making $6M for the next two seasons. We have a higher ranked prospect pool. Southern California is a more desirable place to live than Buffalo. And last but not least, they HAVE Jack Eichel and we still finished six points ahead of them. This franchise is in a significantly better place than Buffalo is.

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1 hour ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

I guess my question is how are the Ducks that much better than Buffalo right now? We just came off a historically bad season and if there was any other franchise that Eichel couldn’t alter then it’s this one especially with all signs pointing to Murray and Eakins not going anywhere before next season. 

For starters, 24 losses of one goal (I counted a couple of empty net 2-goal games) or shootouts.  That's almost half the season.  Most of those during a time of missing 2 key defensemen, others missing at least one.  

Obvious individual and team improvement as the year progressed, including the addition of future stars that will continue to get better.

Many other late losses taken under obvious experimentation looking towards next year.

It's pretty clear that, while not great, the Ducks are decently better than their record, while Buffalo clearly is not.

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2 hours ago, dukitup said:

Reading about the Eichel injury, if I were the Ducks I would take a hard pass on trading for him. Eichel wants experimental artificial disc replacement surgery, while Buffalo wants rehab and at worst disc fusion surgery if rehab fails. Problem with replacement surgery is there's no long term studies on athletics (physical players) that have had the surgery. You're talking about the neck area too, where one bad hit into the boards could be catastrophic. If there's a drop in asking from Buffalo, then I might revisit, but with the Ducks history of career ending health issues (Souray, Eaves, Despres, Kesler) I think I would look elsewhere.

 

As far as the 2022 pick is concerned, I would think with a full season of Zegras, Drysdale, Lindholm and Manson (if still here) and new coaches on the PP, we're better by default. Throw in some expected maturation from other younger players, I don't see the Ducks as a top 5 lottery team next season. 🤞

Agree. Assuming they go back to the old Pacific division, we'll also replace Colorado, St Louis, and Minnesota in the division with Calgary, Edmonton, and Vancouver. They should also get a little bump in performance from having a full training camp. We've also been pretty good at home over the years against Eastern teams, so its perfectly reasonable to assume they'll improve on their 6-18-4 home record just based who they'll play. So I don't see us getting a top-5 pick either. We're not getting Wright or Lambert unless the ping pong balls will it.

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4 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

Your question is an easy one. We have an elite #1 goaltender. They do not. Cam Fowler and Hampus Lindholm are both better than their best defensemen. Our three best veteran players have not requested a trade (ala Eichel, Reinhart, and Ristolainen). We still have seven starters who played on our last team to make the Western Conference Finals, while Buffalo has zero players that have ever played a playoff game with the franchise. We don't have a disgruntled Jeff Skinner playing on the 4th line for $9 million per season for the next six years, or Kyle Okposo making $6M for the next two seasons. We have a higher ranked prospect pool. Southern California is a more desirable place to live than Buffalo. And last but not least, they HAVE Jack Eichel and we still finished six points ahead of them. This franchise is in a significantly better place than Buffalo is.

I should added a clarifier of “how is our on-ice product that much better than Buffalo’s?” Absolutely agree players would rather live in Newport Beach than Buffalo. I look at it from the other side that if we are in a significantly better place, particularly with the current roster, then we should have finished more than 6 points ahead of them.

4 hours ago, gotchabari said:

For starters, 24 losses of one goal (I counted a couple of empty net 2-goal games) or shootouts.  That's almost half the season.  Most of those during a time of missing 2 key defensemen, others missing at least one.  

Obvious individual and team improvement as the year progressed, including the addition of future stars that will continue to get better.

Many other late losses taken under obvious experimentation looking towards next year.

It's pretty clear that, while not great, the Ducks are decently better than their record, while Buffalo clearly is not.

I’d be more optimistic about that one-goal games stat if the Ducks other stats (PP, shots, goals for, goal differential, defensive stats etc) weren’t atrociously bad. The Ducks won 17 games and only 11 in regulation out of 56. I take that as they were bad and getting outplayed most nights rather than they were just unlucky and not getting bounces. No team should expect to be as bad as the Ducks were but finishing in the bottom-5 also shouldn’t have been much of a shock. Most pundits projected them to be there prior to the season. I don’t have a problem with them being bad since it’s their turn in the rebuild barrel. But that’s not what management has said and set the expectation of the team to compete for the playoffs. That disconnect is what baffles and worries me. 

I know that we can laugh and pity the Sabres given the dumpster fire that they are but we only finished 6 points ahead of them, scored fewer goals and went 3-5-2 in the last 10 games when they went 3-7. At least Buffalo started cleaning house and fired their coach/GM and I hope that the Ducks will follow suit by next summer.
 

 

Edited by BombaysTripleDeke

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5 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

Your question is an easy one. We have an elite #1 goaltender. They do not. Cam Fowler and Hampus Lindholm are both better than their best defensemen. Our three best veteran players have not requested a trade (ala Eichel, Reinhart, and Ristolainen). We still have seven starters who played on our last team to make the Western Conference Finals, while Buffalo has zero players that have ever played a playoff game with the franchise. We don't have a disgruntled Jeff Skinner playing on the 4th line for $9 million per season for the next six years, or Kyle Okposo making $6M for the next two seasons. We have a higher ranked prospect pool. Southern California is a more desirable place to live than Buffalo. And last but not least, they HAVE Jack Eichel and we still finished six points ahead of them. This franchise is in a significantly better place than Buffalo is.

Some fans on this forum are simply blind. Let's see what our "elite" will show next season.

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2 hours ago, FanSince1993 said:

Some fans on this forum are simply blind. Let's see what our "elite" will show next season.

He's certainly not played like one the past two seasons, but I've seen enough of him with my own eyes to know what a motivated Gibson is capable of with a decent team in front of him. 

Regardless, he's significantly better than Buffalo's dynamic duo of Carter Hutton and Linus Ullmark, which was the point of the post.

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3 hours ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

I should added a clarifier of “how is our on-ice product that much better than Buffalo’s?” Absolutely agree players would rather live in Newport Beach than Buffalo. I look at it from the other side that if we are in a significantly better place, particularly with the current roster, then we should have finished more than 6 points ahead of them.

I’d be more optimistic about that one-goal games stat if the Ducks other stats (PP, shots, goals for, goal differential, defensive stats etc) weren’t atrociously bad. The Ducks won 17 games and only 11 in regulation out of 56. I take that as they were bad and getting outplayed most nights rather than they were just unlucky and not getting bounces. No team should expect to be as bad as the Ducks were but finishing in the bottom-5 also shouldn’t have been much of a shock. Most pundits projected them to be there prior to the season. I don’t have a problem with them being bad since it’s their turn in the rebuild barrel. But that’s not what management has said and set the expectation of the team to compete for the playoffs. That disconnect is what baffles and worries me. 

I know that we can laugh and pity the Sabres given the dumpster fire that they are but we only finished 6 points ahead of them, scored fewer goals and went 3-5-2 in the last 10 games when they went 3-7. At least Buffalo started cleaning house and fired their coach/GM and I hope that the Ducks will follow suit by next summer.

The Sabres outscored the Ducks because they had a 30-11 goal advantage on the PP (Reinhart had 10 PP goals by himself). The Ducks outscored the Sabres 100-87 at 5v5 though. In fact, the Ducks had only 1 fewer 5v5 goal than Dallas (who had 37 PP goals) and 2 fewer 5v5 goals than St Louis (who had 36 PP goals).

Just fix the power play and the Ducks are a different team. 

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2 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

The Sabres outscored the Ducks because they had a 30-11 goal advantage on the PP (Reinhart had 10 PP goals by himself). The Ducks outscored the Sabres 100-87 at 5v5 though. In fact, the Ducks had only 1 fewer 5v5 goal than Dallas (who had 37 PP goals) and 2 fewer 5v5 goals than St Louis (who had 36 PP goals).

Just fix the power play and the Ducks are a different team. 

They’ll be better but my point is that it’ll take a lot more than that if they have any chance at the playoffs. The Ducks were a -53 in goal differential, Dallas was +4 (missed the playoffs), St. Louis was -1 (currently being sacrificed to Colorado in the first round). The Ducks can’t score and they can’t defend well either. If the power play was the sole difference maker then I don’t think this season flies off the rails as badly or that Gibson makes the comments that he did last week to where we are pondering about his future in Anaheim. It just doesn’t sound like a team that has a grasp of things:

“We’ve got to start taking some steps forward and trying to figure out what needs to happen. You ask anybody and they want to win. Nobody wants to lose. It seems like the last few years, we kind of found ways to lose games, put ourselves behind the 8-ball and maybe get a little too comfortable with losing. We have to figure out what’s the best plan of action to change it and kind of turn the tide.”

Edited by BombaysTripleDeke

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On 5/20/2021 at 7:45 PM, BombaysTripleDeke said:

They’ll be better but my point is that it’ll take a lot more than that if they have any chance at the playoffs. The Ducks were a -53 in goal differential, Dallas was +4 (missed the playoffs), St. Louis was -1 (currently being sacrificed to Colorado in the first round). The Ducks can’t score and they can’t defend well either. If the power play was the sole difference maker then I don’t think this season flies off the rails as badly or that Gibson makes the comments that he did last week to where we are pondering about his future in Anaheim. It just doesn’t sound like a team that has a grasp of things:

“We’ve got to start taking some steps forward and trying to figure out what needs to happen. You ask anybody and they want to win. Nobody wants to lose. It seems like the last few years, we kind of found ways to lose games, put ourselves behind the 8-ball and maybe get a little too comfortable with losing. We have to figure out what’s the best plan of action to change it and kind of turn the tide.”

Gibson did also say in that same interview he loves being in Anaheim (take as a grain of salt of course, we all have PTSD of a superstar saying they love Anaheim and wanting to stay and then...leaving in the off-season... although I don't think he offers that info if it wasn't true). And I think that's a big difference between Anaheim and Buffalo...for the past few years players have been pretty vocal about not wanting to be in Buffalo and also have actively pursued a trade. ...in Anaheim we have players that wont even waive their NTC lol

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