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Aksun

Former Ducks in the Playoffs

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I know this is pointless, but hear me out. It seems that Bob has the right idea when trading for some of these players or signing, drafting and developing others. But for some reason, either they don't pan out for us and flourish elsewhere, or are just better in a different system. What's wrong with us? The coaching? The team atmospphere? The overarching owner-GM approach? Here's a list of former Ducks on current Round-1 playoff teams, mind you, each of 16 has an ex-Duck, some 2 - in various roles, an OK representation if you ask me:

WSH: Carl Hagelin, Daniel Sprong (Justin Schultz)
BOS: Nick Ritchie, Chris Wagner (Ondrej Kase)
PIT: Marcus Petterson
NYI: Kyle Palmieri
NSH: Erik Gudbranson (Luca Sbisa)
CAR: Jani Hakanpaa (Jake Gardiner)
WPG: Mathieu Perreault, Nate Thompson
STL: David Perron
COL: (Keifer Sherwood)
VGK: William Karlsson, Shea Theodore
EDM: Devin Shore
FLA: (Brandon Montour)
TBL: Pat Maroon (Luke Schenn, Curtis McElhinney)
MIN: Nick Bonino (Joseph Cramarossa)
MTL: Corey Perry
TOR: Ben Hutton, Frederik Andersen

 


What I wanted to say is: It's infuriating. Wee-sa had the right-o pieces.

 

 

P.S. Thats almost a full lineup, aaaaand we get an average Ducks' team of the past 5 years:

Perron - Karlsson - Palmieri

Hagelin - Bonino - Perry

Ritchie - Perreault - Maroon

Shore - Thompson - Wagner

Theodore - Gudbranson

Montour - Petterson

Hutton - Hakanpaa

Andersen - McBackup

 

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The answer to the vast majority of the players you’ve listed is $$$$.

Can’t ignore the cap, unless you’re Toronto. 

Many of those teams collected players because they needed depth for a postseason run they were already almost assured of. 

It’s just not a good metric to measure a GM by, unless you do the same with other GMs for at least some semblance of a good faith comparison. I think you’ll find BM is par or better than other teams using this as a measuring stick. We fall down on player durability, more than anything.

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2 hours ago, gorbachav5 said:

With Devin Shore in there, that's the worst Ducks lineup of all time, just like it was every time he was in the real lineup.

Haha and there it is

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On 5/20/2021 at 5:24 PM, Aksun said:

I know this is pointless, but hear me out. It seems that Bob has the right idea when trading for some of these players or signing, drafting and developing others. But for some reason, either they don't pan out for us and flourish elsewhere, or are just better in a different system. What's wrong with us? The coaching? The team atmospphere? The overarching owner-GM approach? Here's a list of former Ducks on current Round-1 playoff teams, mind you, each of 16 has an ex-Duck, some 2 - in various roles, an OK representation if you ask me:

WSH: Carl Hagelin, Daniel Sprong (Justin Schultz)
BOS: Nick Ritchie, Chris Wagner (Ondrej Kase)
PIT: Marcus Petterson
NYI: Kyle Palmieri
NSH: Erik Gudbranson (Luca Sbisa)
CAR: Jani Hakanpaa (Jake Gardiner)
WPG: Mathieu Perreault, Nate Thompson
STL: David Perron
COL: (Keifer Sherwood)
VGK: William Karlsson, Shea Theodore
EDM: Devin Shore
FLA: (Brandon Montour)
TBL: Pat Maroon (Luke Schenn, Curtis McElhinney)
MIN: Nick Bonino (Joseph Cramarossa)
MTL: Corey Perry
TOR: Ben Hutton, Frederik Andersen

 


What I wanted to say is: It's infuriating. Wee-sa had the right-o pieces.

 

 

P.S. Thats almost a full lineup, aaaaand we get an average Ducks' team of the past 5 years:

Perron - Karlsson - Palmieri

Hagelin - Bonino - Perry

Ritchie - Perreault - Maroon

Shore - Thompson - Wagner

Theodore - Gudbranson

Montour - Petterson

Hutton - Hakanpaa

Andersen - McBackup

 

ha! i love that eevry team has someone!....although I don't love that Gud is on Nashville....boooo....that's unfortunate for him.

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On 5/20/2021 at 5:24 PM, Aksun said:

I know this is pointless, but hear me out. It seems that Bob has the right idea when trading for some of these players or signing, drafting and developing others. But for some reason, either they don't pan out for us and flourish elsewhere, or are just better in a different system. What's wrong with us? The coaching? The team atmospphere? The overarching owner-GM approach? Here's a list of former Ducks on current Round-1 playoff teams, mind you, each of 16 has an ex-Duck, some 2 - in various roles, an OK representation if you ask me:

WSH: Carl Hagelin, Daniel Sprong (Justin Schultz)
BOS: Nick Ritchie, Chris Wagner (Ondrej Kase)
PIT: Marcus Petterson
NYI: Kyle Palmieri
NSH: Erik Gudbranson (Luca Sbisa)
CAR: Jani Hakanpaa (Jake Gardiner)
WPG: Mathieu Perreault, Nate Thompson
STL: David Perron
COL: (Keifer Sherwood)
VGK: William Karlsson, Shea Theodore
EDM: Devin Shore
FLA: (Brandon Montour)
TBL: Pat Maroon (Luke Schenn, Curtis McElhinney)
MIN: Nick Bonino (Joseph Cramarossa)
MTL: Corey Perry
TOR: Ben Hutton, Frederik Andersen

 


What I wanted to say is: It's infuriating. Wee-sa had the right-o pieces.

 

 

P.S. Thats almost a full lineup, aaaaand we get an average Ducks' team of the past 5 years:

Perron - Karlsson - Palmieri

Hagelin - Bonino - Perry

Ritchie - Perreault - Maroon

Shore - Thompson - Wagner

Theodore - Gudbranson

Montour - Petterson

Hutton - Hakanpaa

Andersen - McBackup

 

I've noticed the same thing.  The players that GMBM traded away, let go, or couldn't keep make up a much better team than the Ducks currently have.  I understand some of it: we had to lose a player to Vegas in the expansion draft, Montour was traded for a first round pick, Bonino was traded to get Kesler, Perron left as a UFA to play in his preferred location of St. Louis.  But there are some boneheaded trades in there that are maddening.  The worst one was trading away Kyle Palmieri at age 24 for a 2nd round draft pick when he was coming off a season scoring at a 20 goal per 82 game pace.  He then average 26+ goals a year over the next 5 seasons for the Devils.  And he is tearing it up in the playoffs for the Islanders.  Another terrible one was trading Patrick Maroon for a 4th round pick plus prospect Martin Gernat less than a year after he had scored 7 goals in 16 games in the 2015 playoffs.  He went on to score 27 goals the next season for the Oilers and played a key role for the Blues and Lightning winning Stanley Cups the past two seasons.

Hopefully we Ducks fans will only have to suffer one more year with Bob Murray as GM.

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10 hours ago, CAsFirstCup said:

I've noticed the same thing.  The players that GMBM traded away, let go, or couldn't keep make up a much better team than the Ducks currently have.  I understand some of it: we had to lose a player to Vegas in the expansion draft, Montour was traded for a first round pick, Bonino was traded to get Kesler, Perron left as a UFA to play in his preferred location of St. Louis.  But there are some boneheaded trades in there that are maddening.  The worst one was trading away Kyle Palmieri at age 24 for a 2nd round draft pick when he was coming off a season scoring at a 20 goal per 82 game pace.  He then average 26+ goals a year over the next 5 seasons for the Devils.  And he is tearing it up in the playoffs for the Islanders.  Another terrible one was trading Patrick Maroon for a 4th round pick plus prospect Martin Gernat less than a year after he had scored 7 goals in 16 games in the 2015 playoffs.  He went on to score 27 goals the next season for the Oilers and played a key role for the Blues and Lightning winning Stanley Cups the past two seasons.

Hopefully we Ducks fans will only have to suffer one more year with Bob Murray as GM.

I've had issues with Murray also, but I don't play the 20/20 hindsight card. EVERY GM makes "boneheaded trades" during their tenure. But I get it. Murray just bad. Worst trade of all.... trading Kase to Boston for Backes, a 1st round pick (Jacob Perreault) and D prospect Axel Andersson.

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1 hour ago, dukitup said:

I've had issues with Murray also, but I don't play the 20/20 hindsight card. EVERY GM makes "boneheaded trades" during their tenure. But I get it. Murray just bad. Worst trade of all.... trading Kase to Boston for Backes, a 1st round pick (Jacob Perreault) and D prospect Axel Andersson.

This is sarcasm, right?

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17 minutes ago, gotchabari said:

This is sarcasm, right?

🤣🤣🤣100% sarcasm. You'd be crazy.... wait... 

But technically kase was in the playoffs and none of the guys GMBM got went to the playoffs this year... burn this whole place to the ground!!!

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2 hours ago, g20topdogg said:

🤣🤣🤣100% sarcasm. You'd be crazy.... wait... 

But technically kase was in the playoffs and none of the guys GMBM got went to the playoffs this year... burn this whole place to the ground!!!

🔥

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Kyle Palmieri - you'd have to choose between him and a few veteran players we have now.  At the time, it was a decent drop to marshal a cup attempt while the twins were (supposedly) still in their window.  This trade was a good deal for Palmieri, and it wasn't unnecessary.

Patrick Maroon - he's a bit of a strange duck.  He's basically been a mercenary for Cup Run teams.  His cap hit isn't super low, so I have to think there's some other money in it for him (though capfriendly shows no performance bonus).  Again, this trade was a great deal for Maroon.  It did open up some space for younger players to come in, but I think there was a mental disconnect between the team and Maroon, and that's the primary reason why they split.  Maybe he and Getz or BB or whoever didn't get along.  Or, maybe Maroon just didn't like it here.  I think it was more than just trying to extract a prospect from Edmonton.  I certainly never felt the same team chemistry we ended up feeling with Grant.

You mentioned Montour.  That one stung at the time, because Monty looked like he might become a star, and it certainly looked like BM was done with him because he didn't listen to RC during that sweep by the sharks.  Since then... I feel like that might have been a good duck out from under move.  Monty is still a decent player, and cheap, but his head isn't on completely right.  He might have been able to do some magical things under Eakins, but he's had problems with 2 NHL teams now.

Anyway, that's all just ramblings.  I don't think you can blame BM for specific players he's traded over the years.... he's done better on that metric than most other GMs - nothing super great, but nothing unjustifiably super bad, either.  Where he's been subpar (though really only to our fan expectations) is overall strategy and picking a few bolder moves along the way, perhaps even just moving a bit earlier with each item across the board.  Every team has bad luck, but the ones that gamble a bit on the way back seem to have more success.  

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Palmieri, Theodore and Karlsson are all well-engaged and playing important roles for their respective teams in the Semi-Final still. Pat Maroon is a steady everygame player for a powerhouse Tampa Bay.

The other steady fourth-liner, Perry even got his own article on NHL.com, a relative rarity for anyone connected to the Ducks' https://www.nhl.com/news/perry-boosts-canadiens-entering-stanley-cup-semifinals/c-325316112?tid=325298762

Of course, this is entirely a 20/20 hindsight situation, the trades made sense at their time and obviously the Perry buyout is OK because he was an $8 player and not actually a Kucherov for his team  on the ice, but maybe, just maybe, it shows some players around the league that the organization is a good step in their careers and not a dead end or a prison, because for some reason I can't wash off the feeling of Ducks having some weird kind of bad rep or juju around the NHL. Maybe not Buffalo, Arizona or Ottawa bad, but still a team that players may try to avoid if they had any leverage.

Or maybe I just desperately need to put a positive spin on the downward spiral of the past 3 years. It's been hard. I want this team to succeed so bad, I feel like Steve Dangle at times.

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"

Corey Perry, the Ducks’ only Hart Trophy winner, has had four goals in the playoffs in his first season with the Canadiens. The Ducks bought him out and allowed him to chase championships, and he’s been in back-to-back Finals, with Dallas and Montreal. And guess what? He still controls the puck and pushes enemy buttons, to the point that he got slugged by Tampa Bay goalie Andrei Vasilevskiy on Monday.

Kyle Palmieri produced seven goals for the Islanders in the postseason. The Ducks sent him to New Jersey for second- and third-round picks who dissipated, and Palmieri has never stopped making them regret it.

The playoffs once lived in southern California, quite comfortably. Now hockey season climaxes with the NHL draft, on July 23. That is when the Ducks and Kings, drafting third and eighth in the first round, try to buy the vowels that might unlock their puzzles

With some exceptions, those “exes” in the playoffs are understandable casualties of the hard salary cap. But did the Ducks and Kings get enough, in terms of cap room or personnel, for the credible warriors they lost? Of course not, and if you could merely draft your way back to excellence, the Stanley Cup would be a citizen of Edmonton. In a six-year span beginning in 2010, the Oilers had four No. 1 overall picks."

 

https://www.ocregister.com/2021/07/06/whicker-luke-hughes-could-help-ducks-negotiate-long-road-back/

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it's an idiotic article if it didn't at least mention that both moves made sense at the time (and still do).  it's especially stupid to infer that Corey should still be on the Ducks.  like, criminally stupid for someone writing about hockey with any sense.  would we love to be in a position where we could use Perry on a 4th line to good effect and/or afford to get Palmeri and use him as well?  of course.  but, it's extremely unlikely we could have rebuilt that much better in the time we've had.  we could have had some better luck, not held onto some projects as long as we did, and give up Manson to Vegas... that's about it, unless we're going to try to rewrite history even further and pick some players that everyone else passed on but that have become solid for other teams who grabbed gold in the 2nd and 3rd and 4th rounds.

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