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Is Eichel a Duck Yet?

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2 hours ago, nieder said:

Rakell would probably not net as big of a haul as he would have 3 years ago when he scored 30 goals but I think he would still have good value. At least, I think he still has good value for this team even if he wouldn't get us a ton in a trade. Last season was his lowest scoring season points wise since his rookie year, but other than that he's been reasonably consistent outside of that one year when he popped off with 69 points. He also has consistently decent possession stats. Personally I would be trying to keep him - the trade return probably wouldn't move the needle that much for this team, Rakell is still relatively young/in his prime years, and seemed to have good chemistry with Zegras. Plus if that helps convince Lindholm to re-sign then that's just gravy.

Manson should have been traded 2 years ago. If Bob can get anything decent for him now it will be miracle. Maybe if a contending team has some kind of blueline injury crisis this upcoming season.

 

Rakell, at this point, you keep if he wants to stay, and his comps are not too expensive.  I honestly don't have a clue what his comps are right now, and by summer he could fetch $4.5 mil for 3 years or $7 mil for 5 or 6, depending on what he does this season.  If he blows up - and it's possible he does - then his contract will blow up, too.  The first two seasons after he signed his 6-year, $3.8 mil deal, he put up 33 and 34 goals.  Then he fell off the table.  He went from a .45 GPG player in the first 148 games of that contract to a .23 GPG player in the next 186 games.

If he's hot at the deadline or in the weeks leading up to it you "ABSOLUTELY, 100%, DON'T BE A DUMBASS, BOB" trade him.

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5 minutes ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

Do you think Toffoli puts up last years numbers on a far worse Kings team rather than Montreal who got to the SCF? He hadn't been on a 30-goal pace since 2015-2016 and hadn’t put up more than 24 goals. His goal scoring took off after LA traded him to Vancouver. LA has been bad so he may have wanted out or LA not have viewed him as part of their future and got something for him. So, it’s hard to rip either side if they wanted to move on when the team was in the bottom-5 of the league.

The Ducks 2016-2017 playoff team also had to go through Calgary and perennial train wreck Edmonton to get to the WCF. We had a fortunate route. Plus, Getzlaf isn’t a 70 point player anymore, Kesler is done and our defense was so disgustingly loaded and deep. So, those things are gone and Silfverberg is older and coming off major hip surgery. We haven’t had a 50-point pace player since Getzlaf three seasons ago, who got exactly 50. I think we’d need a 50-goal Perry, two prime centers and a much better defense before we can even try to roll against Vegas, Colorado for a WCF spot and I think those are going to require an absolute draining of our prospect pool while also  taking away from the current roster

Hmmm... a 70+ point player. Geez, if only there was one of those available!!! :lol:

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2 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

Hmmm... a 70+ point player. Geez, if only there was one of those available!!! :lol:

I know a guy...

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2 hours ago, nieder said:

Rakell would probably not net as big of a haul as he would have 3 years ago when he scored 30 goals but I think he would still have good value. At least, I think he still has good value for this team even if he wouldn't get us a ton in a trade. Last season was his lowest scoring season points wise since his rookie year, but other than that he's been reasonably consistent outside of that one year when he popped off with 69 points. He also has consistently decent possession stats. Personally I would be trying to keep him - the trade return probably wouldn't move the needle that much for this team, Rakell is still relatively young/in his prime years, and seemed to have good chemistry with Zegras. Plus if that helps convince Lindholm to re-sign then that's just gravy.

Manson should have been traded 2 years ago. If Bob can get anything decent for him now it will be miracle. Maybe if a contending team has some kind of blueline injury crisis this upcoming season.

 

I think you extend Lindholm, and I think he'll take 7 years at about $7.5 mil to stay in ANA, over better offers.  But, you gotta find that out now. If he wants 8 years or $8 mil or over, you gotta move on at the deadline, imo.

Manson I move ASAP, for almost any return.  Unless he wants to go 3 years at $4 mil or something.  Especially if you are moving on from Lindholm.  You move Lindholm AND Manson and your vets are Fowler and Shattenkirk.  Sub-optimal.

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6 minutes ago, tommer-1 said:

Rakell, at this point, you keep if he wants to stay, and his comps are not too expensive.  I honestly don't have a clue what his comps are right now, and by summer he could fetch $4.5 mil for 3 years or $7 mil for 5 or 6, depending on what he does this season.  If he blows up - and it's possible he does - then his contract will blow up, too.  The first two seasons after he signed his 6-year, $3.8 mil deal, he put up 33 and 34 goals.  Then he fell off the table.  He went from a .45 GPG player in the first 148 games of that contract to a .23 GPG player in the next 186 games.

If he's hot at the deadline or in the weeks leading up to it you "ABSOLUTELY, 100%, DON'T BE A DUMBASS, BOB" trade him.

I think his comps right now are Saad (5 x $4.5M), Toffoli (4 x $4.25M), and Granlund (4 x $5M). Silfverberg's 5 x $5.25M is probably the outer limit, but that contract looks like quite an overpay in hindsight and it would be surprising to see Rakell get that in UFA with the current flat cap. Keeping him in Anaheim at Toffoli's contract would be fantastic, but I would also absolutely re-sign him for either Saad's contract or Granlund's contract. Four years means he's done at 32, and five years is 33. Unless there's some unknown injury he's dealing with, I think that is an ideal bridge to the next generation of Ducks and still makes him tradeable if one of the youngsters (Perreault?) surprises us within the next 2-3 seasons and makes him expendable.  

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18 minutes ago, tommer-1 said:

Manson I move ASAP, for almost any return.

Yep! Sort of how I feel about it...with all the D signings that went on early off-season...I think Bob really missed the chance to move him. But at this point I wonder if we are better off now waiting for the TDL (or a team that suddenly has a bunch of D injuries) to trade him to get the best value. This season will be a bust for the Ducks, so I don't see the rush anymore. Now or by the TDL. Gotta strike when it's hot though. And it sounds like it's cool right now.

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2 hours ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

Eichel changed agents today. The saga continues….hope this helps end it.

I agree for Jack and Buffalo's sake this Feud IF this keeps is not going to look good for both.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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24 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

I think his comps right now are Saad (5 x $4.5M), Toffoli (4 x $4.25M), and Granlund (4 x $5M). Silfverberg's 5 x $5.25M is probably the outer limit, but that contract looks like quite an overpay in hindsight and it would be surprising to see Rakell get that in UFA with the current flat cap. Keeping him in Anaheim at Toffoli's contract would be fantastic, but I would also absolutely re-sign him for either Saad's contract or Granlund's contract. Four years means he's done at 32, and five years is 33. Unless there's some unknown injury he's dealing with, I think that is an ideal bridge to the next generation of Ducks and still makes him tradeable if one of the youngsters (Perreault?) surprises us within the next 2-3 seasons and makes him expendable.  

If he's on a  30G/30A-pace this season you gotta deal him, right?  Because if he puts up those numbers some team will end up paying him $7 mil a season for 5+ seasons.  And that shouldn't be the Ducks, imo. And if he's playing like that, I would think a team would give you a first for him, or a good prospect.

I'm not saying that I think that's what he'll do, just that it's possible.

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25 minutes ago, Jasoaks said:

Yep! Sort of how I feel about it...with all the D signings that went on early off-season...I think Bob really missed the chance to move him. But at this point I wonder if we are better off now waiting for the TDL (or a team that suddenly has a bunch of D injuries) to trade him to get the best value. This season will be a bust for the Ducks, so I don't see the rush anymore. Now or by the TDL. Gotta strike when it's hot though. And it sounds like it's cool right now.

Yeah, I wouldn't be in a rush to deal Manson, but I would move him at the first semi-decent offer, whenever that comes.

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4 minutes ago, tommer-1 said:

If he's on a  30G/30A-pace this season you gotta deal him, right?  Because if he puts up those numbers some team will end up paying him $7 mil a season for 5+ seasons.  And that shouldn't be the Ducks, imo. And if he's playing like that, I would think a team would give you a first for him, or a good prospect.

I'm not saying that I think that's what he'll do, just that it's possible.

You deal him no matter what if he doesn't re-sign by, say, February 1st. And if he's on a 30G/30A pace by then, he's going to the UFA market anyway. He's not going to stay unsigned through the season, put up 30 goals, and then sign with the Ducks before July 1, 2022.

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6 minutes ago, tommer-1 said:

Yeah, I wouldn't be in a rush to deal Manson, but I would move him at the first semi-decent offer, whenever that comes.

I would deal Manson yesterday if the return included a decent forward in the 22-25 range. I'm not trading him for just non-1st round picks and B-level prospects right now though (which is what he's currently worth). 

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55 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

Hmmm... a 70+ point player. Geez, if only there was one of those available!!! :lol:

And then do what about all of the other pieces that we’d still need to be a WCF caliber team?? There’s a team in our division with two players better than Eichel that are nothing more than a first round exit assuming they make the playoffs. Watching Eichel waste away in Anaheim would be depressing, especially after his Buffalo years.

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3 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

I would deal Manson yesterday if the return included a decent forward in the 22-25 range. I'm not trading him for just non-1st round picks and B-level prospects right now though (which is what he's currently worth). 

I honestly don't see BM trading him for what his value is. Then re-signing him to a ridiculous contract. 

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3 minutes ago, perry_mvp said:

I honestly don't see BM trading him for what his value is. Then re-signing him to a ridiculous contract. 

Agree. The time to move Manson/Lindholm was a few weeks backs when Ristolainen got the return that he did and defensemen prices were sky high. Can’t wait to see Manson get traded for a 6th round pick and a half-eaten sandwich or be given enough money to launch his own spaceship.

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9 minutes ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

And then do what about all of the other pieces that we’d still need to be a WCF caliber team?? There’s a team in our division with two players better than Eichel that are nothing more than a first round exit assuming they make the playoffs. Watching Eichel waste away in Anaheim would be depressing, especially after his Buffalo years.

I think you're missing one of the possible advantages of having Eichel. Attracting younger talent. Who do the Ducks attract now? Old defensemen and 4th liners? Get a top player in the league on the team and I see more interest from players that we need. 

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1 hour ago, dtsdlaw said:

I think his comps right now are Saad (5 x $4.5M), Toffoli (4 x $4.25M), and Granlund (4 x $5M). Silfverberg's 5 x $5.25M is probably the outer limit, but that contract looks like quite an overpay in hindsight and it would be surprising to see Rakell get that in UFA with the current flat cap. Keeping him in Anaheim at Toffoli's contract would be fantastic, but I would also absolutely re-sign him for either Saad's contract or Granlund's contract. Four years means he's done at 32, and five years is 33. Unless there's some unknown injury he's dealing with, I think that is an ideal bridge to the next generation of Ducks and still makes him tradeable if one of the youngsters (Perreault?) surprises us within the next 2-3 seasons and makes him expendable.  

I would resign Rakell to a 4x5 and Lindholm to a 6x7 or 7x7 (somewhere around there). Going long term on Rakell isn't a good idea. I also agree with others that we trade him at the dead line if he's having a really good season. It's a contract year for him so he might put in the extra effort to get paid. Manson should be traded. We still need to pick up a center to play the first line (maybe even just for a year or two) who might be able to slot into a second line center moving forward. We absolutely cannot go into next season with no changes to the roster. And trading off a lot of vets also hurts the development of our prospects. I'd trade Manson and pick up Vats as a fill in for a 2x 2-2.5 (I think that would be fine). Get someone to play top line center and go into next season knowing it's going to be a developmental season for the young guys. Otherwise trading off a lot of better pieces of the team should mean we let Zegras and Drysdale go to the Ahl so that they don't get destroyed and hurt their confidence and game for the future. 

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50 minutes ago, perry_mvp said:

I think you're missing one of the possible advantages of having Eichel. Attracting younger talent. Who do the Ducks attract now? Old defensemen and 4th liners? Get a top player in the league on the team and I see more interest from players that we need. 

I’m not sure if I am understanding younger talent? Players that want out of their current teams or free agents?

I don’t think the Ducks suddenly become more attractive if they traded for Eichel today. It’s not like basketball where adding a star player can be an absolute game-changer and shape a team.

The Ducks will still be bad with Eichel on the roster as of now and that the upcoming prospects will play a bigger role in the Ducks’ future success, which would then make it a more attractive place. If the Ducks go from the 2nd worst team without Eichel to the 6th worst team with him, then I don’t think that’s going to do much to bring in players and definitely not with Murray running things.

Ironically, the Sabres traded O’Reilly and Evander Kane after Eichel burst onto the scene with a 64 point in 67 game season lol. Keep that Buffalo curse on the east coast!

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1 hour ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

I’m not sure if I am understanding younger talent? Players that want out of their current teams or free agents?

I don’t think the Ducks suddenly become more attractive if they traded for Eichel today. It’s not like basketball where adding a star player can be an absolute game-changer and shape a team.

The Ducks will still be bad with Eichel on the roster as of now and that the upcoming prospects will play a bigger role in the Ducks’ future success, which would then make it a more attractive place. If the Ducks go from the 2nd worst team without Eichel to the 6th worst team with him, then I don’t think that’s going to do much to bring in players and definitely not with Murray running things.

Ironically, the Sabres traded O’Reilly and Evander Kane after Eichel burst onto the scene with a 64 point in 67 game season lol. Keep that Buffalo curse on the east coast!

From My Standpoint I understand where you are coming from especially in regards to Eichel...As I say before Ducks need to move on from this Drama. Focus on Upcoming season.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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5 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

His new agent is Pat Brisson, who is basically the number one agent in hockey. He's got many of the biggest names in hockey - Crosby, MacKinnon, Kane, Toews, Tavares, Kopitar, Giroux, Elias Pettersson, Jack Hughes, etc. He also represents Fowler, Zegras, Max Jones, and Jacob Perreault. According to puckpedia.com, the Ducks have the second highest number of Brisson clients behind Chicago, so there is substantial familiarity between GMBM and Brisson. 

You have to think that this is a move to add leverage to Eichel's trade demand. IMO, it would be in Kevyn Adams long term best interest to not tick off Brisson by continuing to jerk around his shiny new client.

Quick follow up on this.... Brisson was Duchene's agent when Duchene forced his way out of Colorado, so he's been through this situation before. I found this old quote from Darren Dreger on the Duchene situation interesting:

Quote

“I know that CAA group pretty well. Pat Brisson, of course, is the lead agent for Matt Duchene in this. This guy is a deal maker. He’s a negotiator. I suspect that he’s not terrorizing Joe Sakic on a daily basis with text messages or phone calls, but he’s been persistent in his belief that the best outcome for both the Colorado Avalanche and for the client, Matt Duchene, is to get a deal done.

Nobody wants to go through the awkwardness and potential ugliness of training camp opening and Matt Duchene perhaps not being there. I’m not suggesting that that is going to be the case, but sooner than later either Duchene or Pat Brisson or somebody from that side is going to step up and say, ‘Alright. Enough is enough. We’ve been really patient in this. We know that you expect and want a great return for Matt Duchene because he’s still a very, very good player in the National Hockey League. But it’s not going to be a good scene for anyone if he’s forced back into that dressing room."

https://www.milehighhockey.com/2017/8/13/16140130/nhl-insider-matt-duchene-trade-rumor-colorado-avalanche-sabres

Duchene actually did start the season with Colorado, and Sakic eventually traded Duchene one month into the 2017-18 season for Kyle Turris + Shane Bowers (28th OA in 2017) + Andrew Hammond + a conditional first-round pick (either 2018 or 2019, Ottawa's choice) + 3rd rounder (2019). So maybe this doesn't really accelerate things for Adams after all. If Sakic can wait, Adams can wait, right? 

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3 hours ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

Do you think Toffoli puts up last years numbers on a far worse Kings team rather than Montreal who got to the SCF?

Probably.  Regular season Montreal wasn't that much better than LAK.  A few more wins and 16 more goals.

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39 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

Quick follow up on this.... Brisson was Duchene's agent when Duchene forced his way out of Colorado, so he's been through this situation before. I found this old quote from Darren Dreger on the Duchene situation interesting:

https://www.milehighhockey.com/2017/8/13/16140130/nhl-insider-matt-duchene-trade-rumor-colorado-avalanche-sabres

Duchene actually did start the season with Colorado, and Sakic eventually traded Duchene one month into the 2017-18 season for Kyle Turris + Shane Bowers (28th OA in 2017) + Andrew Hammond + a conditional first-round pick (either 2018 or 2019, Ottawa's choice) + 3rd rounder (2019). So maybe this doesn't really accelerate things for Adams after all. If Sakic can wait, Adams can wait, right? 

That’s interesting and to my chagrin would make the Ducks more likely to get a deal done. If they trade for him later into the season and he still needs surgery that will keep him out an additional 6-8 weeks if all goes well with his preferred surgery. By the time he’s able to play, the Ducks will likely have locked themselves into a top-10 pick, protect that pick and then trade their 2023 first, McTavish, Tracey, Lundestrom, 3rd round pick. Not to trades prior to the deadline. You then get a healthy Eichel and a top-10 pick going into next season.

I agree that Adams can wait just like Sakic did. I’m interested in how Eichel’s medical situation is resolved since that is a huge factor that Duchene didn’t have to deal.

25 minutes ago, gotchabari said:

Probably.  Regular season Montreal wasn't that much better than LAK.  A few more wins and 16 more goals.

I think that he’s struggling in LA. In his final 3 years with the Kings he put up 13 goals in 82 games, 24 goals in 82 games and then 18 goals in 58 games before he got traded. He popped off with Vancouver for that short stint and then really went hamm with Montreal like he never had before with a 44-goal pace. LA also didn’t have a significantly upgraded roster last year than when Toffoli last played.

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24 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

Quick follow up on this.... Brisson was Duchene's agent when Duchene forced his way out of Colorado, so he's been through this situation before. I found this old quote from Darren Dreger on the Duchene situation interesting:

https://www.milehighhockey.com/2017/8/13/16140130/nhl-insider-matt-duchene-trade-rumor-colorado-avalanche-sabres

Duchene actually did start the season with Colorado, and Sakic eventually traded Duchene one month into the 2017-18 season for Kyle Turris + Shane Bowers (28th OA in 2017) + Andrew Hammond + a conditional first-round pick (either 2018 or 2019, Ottawa's choice) + 3rd rounder (2019). So maybe this doesn't really accelerate things for Adams after all. If Sakic can wait, Adams can wait, right? 

Yep, I think Adams can and will wait until he gets the deal he wants.  And Eichel is better than Duchene (and younger), although you'd think the questionable health would drive the price down to a similar level.

I think it's a fool's errand to try to come up with an equivalent value because the situation is so different (there's no third team involved; Ottawa and Nashville were both attempting to contend, which neither of these teams would; Colorado was at a different stage of their rebuild than Buffalo is; etc.), but I'm bored, so what the heck.  Let's look for equivalencies.

1. Kyle Turris - he was 27, a good, but not great, player on an expiring contract who could be flipped (and was) for other pieces.  The only one who remotely fits that bill for the Ducks is Rickard Rakell.  I don't think Rakell is bringing back a prospect like Girard if Buffalo wanted to flip him immediately like Colorado did with Turris, much less additional assets (Kamenev and a 2nd), but he's the best fit for this exercise. 

2. Shane Bowers - a low first round pick (a center) from the most recent draft.  Interestingly enough, he's the only pick from the 1st round of the 2017 draft who has not played an NHL game.  As well as Sakic did in this trade, that was a whiff.  The best comparable player for the Ducks would be Olen Zellweger, the early 2nd round pick from this draft, but you could argue Perreault (2020 draft - #27 OA) is probably a better fit here.  He's a better prospect than Bowers, but that makes up for some of the difference between Rakell and Turris. 

3. Andrew Hammond - a flash-in-the-pan goalie who had a good 25 games for Ottawa and never came close to replicating it.  He had a great nickname, though.  This was strictly for depth on that Colorado team.  I can't imagine they were looking at him as a long-term solution to anything.  Maybe this is a guy like Kodie Curran?  Roman Durny?  Buddy Robinson? This could be any non-prospect in the Ducks' system that Buffalo might want.  Heck, throw Josh Manson in here if we need to.

4. A conditional 1st - this would obviously be a must from Buffalo's perspective, with the "conditional" part of it being a must from the Ducks' perspective.

5. 3rd Rounder - No problem here

The big difference is obviously between Turris and Rakell.  Rakell at his best was probably better than Turris, but their careers through their age 27 season (which is when Turris was traded) were remarkably similar (seriously, it's eerie, check this out): 

  • Turris: 533 games, 133 goals, 178 assists, 311 points, 1215 shots, 10.9% shooting
  • Rakell: 499 games, 138 goals, 173 assists, 311 points, 1230 shots, 11.2% shooting

However, the biggest difference is that Turris is a center, which is a large point in his favor.  The second biggest difference is that Turris was coming off of a very solid season, while Rakell is coming off arguably the worst season of his career since he was a rookie.  As I mentioned above, there's no way Buffalo could get the equivalent of Sammy Girard from another team by flipping Rakell.  They'd probably want the equivalent of Girard from the Ducks instead.  Girard was a second round pick, but he had risen fast through the Predators' system and had value beyond the 2nd round pedigree.  If you're looking at an equivalent from the Ducks, you have to look at Drysdale.  Yes, he is rated more highly than Girard was, but Eichel's also better than Duchene, and this makes up for the two other assets the Avs got from the Predators.  But that's a non-starter from the Ducks, as we know.  So if we're leaving Drysdale out entirely and putting Rakell back in the trade, you've probably got to add McTavish to the mix.  If Buffalo agreed to that deal it would be:

  • Buffalo gives up: Jack Eichel
  • Anaheim gives up: Rickard Rakell, Jacob Perreault, Kodie Curran, Mason McTavish, 2022 cond 1st, 2022 3rd (you could add the Kesler contract to make the money work for Buffalo)

On paper, that's probably a good deal for the Ducks in terms of overall value, but they'd be giving up their two best pure scoring prospects.  Maybe they could get Zellweger into the deal in place of Perreault if McTavish is part of the package.  I know this was an exercise in fantasy, but like I said, I was bored.

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16 hours ago, Gorbachav55 said:

Yep, I think Adams can and will wait until he gets the deal he wants.  And Eichel is better than Duchene (and younger), although you'd think the questionable health would drive the price down to a similar level.

I think it's a fool's errand to try to come up with an equivalent value because the situation is so different (there's no third team involved; Ottawa and Nashville were both attempting to contend, which neither of these teams would; Colorado was at a different stage of their rebuild than Buffalo is; etc.), but I'm bored, so what the heck.  Let's look for equivalencies.

1. Kyle Turris - he was 27, a good, but not great, player on an expiring contract who could be flipped (and was) for other pieces.  The only one who remotely fits that bill for the Ducks is Rickard Rakell.  I don't think Rakell is bringing back a prospect like Girard if Buffalo wanted to flip him immediately like Colorado did with Turris, much less additional assets (Kamenev and a 2nd), but he's the best fit for this exercise. 

2. Shane Bowers - a low first round pick (a center) from the most recent draft.  Interestingly enough, he's the only pick from the 1st round of the 2017 draft who has not played an NHL game.  As well as Sakic did in this trade, that was a whiff.  The best comparable player for the Ducks would be Olen Zellweger, the early 2nd round pick from this draft, but you could argue Perreault (2020 draft - #27 OA) is probably a better fit here.  He's a better prospect than Bowers, but that makes up for some of the difference between Rakell and Turris. 

3. Andrew Hammond - a flash-in-the-pan goalie who had a good 25 games for Ottawa and never came close to replicating it.  He had a great nickname, though.  This was strictly for depth on that Colorado team.  I can't imagine they were looking at him as a long-term solution to anything.  Maybe this is a guy like Kodie Curran?  Roman Durny?  Buddy Robinson? This could be any non-prospect in the Ducks' system that Buffalo might want.  Heck, throw Josh Manson in here if we need to.

4. A conditional 1st - this would obviously be a must from Buffalo's perspective, with the "conditional" part of it being a must from the Ducks' perspective.

5. 3rd Rounder - No problem here

The big difference is obviously between Turris and Rakell.  Rakell at his best was probably better than Turris, but their careers through their age 27 season (which is when Turris was traded) were remarkably similar (seriously, it's eerie, check this out): 

  • Turris: 533 games, 133 goals, 178 assists, 311 points, 1215 shots, 10.9% shooting
  • Rakell: 499 games, 138 goals, 173 assists, 311 points, 1230 shots, 11.2% shooting

However, the biggest difference is that Turris is a center, which is a large point in his favor.  The second biggest difference is that Turris was coming off of a very solid season, while Rakell is coming off arguably the worst season of his career since he was a rookie.  As I mentioned above, there's no way Buffalo could get the equivalent of Sammy Girard from another team by flipping Rakell.  They'd probably want the equivalent of Girard from the Ducks instead.  Girard was a second round pick, but he had risen fast through the Predators' system and had value beyond the 2nd round pedigree.  If you're looking at an equivalent from the Ducks, you have to look at Drysdale.  Yes, he is rated more highly than Girard was, but Eichel's also better than Duchene, and this makes up for the two other assets the Avs got from the Predators.  But that's a non-starter from the Ducks, as we know.  So if we're leaving Drysdale out entirely and putting Rakell back in the trade, you've probably got to add McTavish to the mix.  If Buffalo agreed to that deal it would be:

  • Buffalo gives up: Jack Eichel
  • Anaheim gives up: Rickard Rakell, Jacob Perreault, Kodie Curran, Mason McTavish, 2022 cond 1st, 2022 3rd (you could add the Kesler contract to make the money work for Buffalo)

On paper, that's probably a good deal for the Ducks in terms of overall value, but they'd be giving up their two best pure scoring prospects.  Maybe they could get Zellweger into the deal in place of Perreault if McTavish is part of the package.  I know this was an exercise in fantasy, but like I said, I was bored.

You lost me on how McTavish ends up in that deal if you're comparing it to the Duchene trade and agreeing that Eichel's injury brings the price to a comparable level. Based on the players you suggested:

Turris (Rakell) + Bowers (Perreault) + Hammond (Curran / bag of pucks) + 2018 conditional 1st (2022 conditional 1st) + 2019 3rd (2023 3rd) is nearly an exact match.

Where does McTavish enter the equation? Is it because Girard eventually turned into a stud? Girard was an amazing steal, but I don't think you can view the Turris-Girard trade through a 2021 lens. At the time Girard was an exciting19-year-old, 5'10" 162lb prospect who had previously been selected 47th overall and had only 11 pro games (6 AHL, 5 NHL) on his resume, but he didn't have the value of a #5 overall pick (Drysdale). To say he had that value at the time would be taking the position that Turris, as a pending UFA, was worth two 2nds + the 5th OA (or the 3rd overall if you're using that to justify McTavish in the deal). That's an insane value for Turris.

If I'm valuing 2017 Turris v. 2021 Rakell, I'm putting it somewhere in the neighborhood of Turris <---> Rakell + Lundestrom. Nothing more. So based on your player suggestions: Rakell + Lundestrom + Perreault + [bag of pucks] + 1st (conditional) + 3rd (2023) <---> Eichel. However, that's a lot of forwards and I would think at least one D prospect would be in that deal in place of a forward. For example, swapping Perreault for LaCombe or Zellweger. Either way, we keep McTavish and our C depth for the next 1-2 seasons is Eichel-Zegras-Getzlaf-Steel-Groulx, with McTavish waiting in the wings (literally and figuratively). Yes, please!

Edited by dtsdlaw

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why are we still discussing this topic? This Eichel guy is a talented player but not a person who makes people comfortable around him. He clashed with his coach, GM, organization, does not trust team doctors, fired his agent, and refused to take care of his injured neck during 5 months off-season time. Now I hear the stories that if he does his "artificial" disc replacement surgery, he may miss most of next season and there is a risk he may not be the same player anymore. And yet some people on this forum write 20 paragraphs essay thinking that we need to trade most of our farm system in exchange for this guy and his $10 mil salary?

Sorry, but I don't want this potential cancer on my team.

Edited by FanSince1993
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38 minutes ago, FanSince1993 said:

why are we still discussing this topic? This Eichel guy is a talented player but not a person who makes people comfortable around him. He clashed with his coach, GM, organization, does not trust team doctors, fired his agent, and refused to take care of his injured neck during 5 months off-season time. Now I hear the stories that if he does his "artificial" disc replacement surgery, he may miss most of next season and there is a risk he may not be the same player anymore. And yet some people on this forum write 20 paragraphs essay thinking that we need to trade most of our farm system in exchange for this guy and his $10 mil salary?

Sorry, but I don't want this potential cancer on my team.

1st bold - source

2nd bold - If he has the surgery he wants (disc replacement) the recovery time is about 6 weeks. If he has the surgery the team wants him to have (disc fusion) recovery time is 6-9 MONTHS. 

I'm not an orthopedist, but I "assume" if they fuse two or three discs in his neck together he will not "be the same player anymore" since his neck range of motion will be compromised. If anything, disc replacement surgery would practically minimize that issue. 

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7 minutes ago, FanSince1993 said:

why we still discussing this topic? This Eichel guy is a talented player but not a person who makes people comfortable around him. He clashed with his coach, GM, organization, does not trust team doctors, fired his agent, and refused to take care of his injured neck during 5 months off-season time. Now I hear the stories that if he does his "artificial" disc replacement surgery, he may miss most of next season and there is a risk he may not be the same player anymore. And yet some people on this forum write 20 paragraphs essay that we need to trade all our farm system in exchange for this guy?

Sorry, but I don't want this potential cancer on my team.

Because the Ducks have been continually linked as a team that is in on him and there have been new developments (i.e. him changing agents) that spark the conversation back up. Also, this might be the most exciting thing to talk about as Ducks fans this season! Aside from watching Zegras and hopefully Drysdale develop and play. Those two are our best chance at experiencing any kind of joy watching the Ducks play this season as it stands.

I can't fault Eichel for being mad, frustrated and wanting out of Buffalo. It's Buffalo. He wouldn't be the first center to do that but I doubt he's going to find happiness here in Anaheim before he'd want out. My flag has been firmly planted in the "Do Not Trade For Eichel" camp.

43 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

If I'm valuing 2017 Turris v. 2021 Rakell, I'm putting it somewhere in the neighborhood of Turris <---> Rakell + Lundestrom. Nothing more. So based on your player suggestions: Rakell + Lundestrom + Perreault + [bag of pucks] + 1st (conditional) + 3rd (2023) <---> Eichel. However, that's a lot of forwards and I would think at least one D prospect would be in that deal in place of a forward. For example, swapping Perreault for LaCombe or Zellweger. Either way, we keep McTavish and our C depth for the next 1-2 seasons is Eichel-Zegras-Getzlaf-Steel-Groulx, with McTavish waiting in the wings (literally and figuratively). Yes, please!

If you trade Rakell and presumably Henrique is still going to get moved, then the Ducks just lost two of their best scorers and traded arguably their best shooting prospect in Perreault. This is for the worst offense in the NHL already, so who is going to support Eichel? The Ducks could still be one of the worst offenses in the NHL even with him. Assuming Zegras pans out to be a legit top-6 center (say comparable to Reinhart) he's still two seasons away before we see that kind of potential from him imo. We'd still have 3 glaring needs for top-6 wingers assuming Comtois continues to progress.

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9 minutes ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:

If you trade Rakell and presumably Henrique is still going to get moved, then the Ducks just lost two of their best scorers and traded arguably their best shooting prospect in Perreault. This is for the worst offense in the NHL already, so who is going to support Eichel? The Ducks could still be one of the worst offenses in the NHL even with him. Assuming Zegras pans out to be a legit top-6 center (say comparable to Reinhart) he's still two seasons away before we see that kind of potential from him imo. We'd still have 3 glaring needs for top-6 wingers assuming Comtois continues to progress.

First, I don’t really believe Bob would strip the RW depth by trading both Rakell and Perreault for Eichel. One of those guys stays. Also, I’m making the Eichel trade for 2022-23 and beyond. I still assume the Ducks likely miss the playoffs this coming season, unless Rakell stays and Bob finds another scoring winger to complement Eichel. If they miss the playoffs, Getzlaf brings back a 2022 1st rounder and Manson at least a 2nd at the trade deadline. Rico will eventually be traded too, and with salary retained he brings back a decent asset too. So you’ve now got more assets and a ton of cap space for 2022-23. You also have a 26-year-old bonafide superstar center and a 21-year-old future stud center as your 1-2 punch. The Ducks will be able to find a top-6 RW. Especially if the cap only goes up by $1M next season, which is what’s been speculated recently. 

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2 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

First, I don’t really believe Bob would strip the RW depth by trading both Rakell and Perreault for Eichel. One of those guys stays. Also, I’m making the Eichel trade for 2022-23 and beyond. I still assume the Ducks likely miss the playoffs this coming season, unless Rakell stays and Bob finds another scoring winger to complement Eichel. If they miss the playoffs, Getzlaf brings back a 2022 1st rounder and Manson at least a 2nd at the trade deadline. Rico will eventually be traded too, and with salary retained he brings back a decent asset too. So you’ve now got more assets and a ton of cap space for 2022-23. You also have a 26-year-old bonafide superstar center and a 21-year-old future stud center as your 1-2 punch. The Ducks will be able to find a top-6 RW. Especially if the cap only goes up by $1M next season, which is what’s been speculated recently. 

In Regards Eichel Ducks need to look at other options then Jack Just saying.

DuckPride 4ever

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