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Honda Center Reopening Policies

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4 minutes ago, Jasoaks said:

I mean, that is my definition of indoor lol but I was there last week and they wouldn't let people in unless they had an approved mask...and yeah I saw that, too, indoors, but cast members would come up and politely ask them to put it back up....I dunno. I agree it's tough to enforce. Especially when others aren't 'cause they are eating. I basically saw none of that in restaurants. Just stores/queues.

Also when I went in May it was SUPER enforced even if you were outside and not at a designated dining area. They would get on you if you were walking down the street and drinking from a water bottle. But that was right when they reopened. 25% capacity...6 feet markers apart in the queue...sigh...it was so nice.

Your visit to D-land in May was before the California "reopening" on June 15th, and I think a lot changed after the reopening and for at least the next couple of months. I'm sure it was easier to identify mask policy "violators" back then when capacity was only 25% and everyone was being told where they could stand. But if they open the Honda Center to full capacity and have the concessions open, good luck enforcing a policy in the concourse during intermissions.

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55 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

Your visit to D-land in May was before the California "reopening" on June 15th, and I think a lot changed after the reopening and for at least the next couple of months. I'm sure it was easier to identify mask policy "violators" back then when capacity was only 25% and everyone was being told where they could stand. But if they open the Honda Center to full capacity and have the concessions open, good luck enforcing a policy in the concourse during intermissions.

yep yep yep yep....completely agree. I just wish I could always have that amount of space and non-crowds at disneyland is all lol

I'm with you on the mask-theater with the league. It was a joke. But, correct me if I'm wrong, all staff, coaches, and players were tested essentially daily, right? If that's happening, I dunno, the coaches wearing masks thing would seem pointless.

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1 hour ago, dtsdlaw said:

We were at Knott's on June 18th and there was none of that going on. Inside or outside. For any ages. 

We were there May 14th and there were definitely employees telling people to wear their masks properly.  Of course, they couldn't be everywhere, so there were plenty of places where it wasn't enforced.  But we saw it multiple times throughout the day.

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17 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

It’s an ice rink. It’s cold. I guarantee the ushers will not be able to see wristbands under the sleeves of jerseys and jackets. It’s just not practical.

They do the same thing in a ton of venues for drinking alcohol vs underage. Wristbands work just fine. 

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Coaches wearing masks has efficacy both epidemiologically and socially.

Masking inside the Pond - any uptake is worthwhile. Profess the mandate in hopes many wear one. I’ll wear one regardless, and I’m vaxxed (not double yet).

Nothing is going to be perfect - we all know people are forging vax cards and that it’s impossible to expect Pond staff to be able to tell the difference. If they were serious, we’d all have to download and use the vax e-passport with NFC data verification (so that someone could let just use an edited screenshot). 

Anyway, they’ll publish best efforts and hope that most people will try to be careful and not jerks while at the rink.  That’s reasonable, under the circumstances - those that are most worried will self-deselect.  I think I’ll probably purchase drinks while there but I’m not sure about food. I’ll be missing the gourmet burgers until I feel more comfortable. 

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5 minutes ago, Fisix said:

They do the same thing in a ton of venues for drinking alcohol vs underage. Wristbands work just fine. 

Fisix, you're smarter than that. At venues where alcohol is served, wristbands have to be worn AT THE CONCESSION STANDS where alcohol is being purchased to prove you're 21 years of age. That's what they do at the OC Fair. 

You're sitting at the Honda Center watching a Ducks game, wearing a wristband that's covered by your jersey or jacket. NOBODY is going to approach you at your seat, and ask you to show them your wristband. Come on.

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9 hours ago, dukitup said:

Fisix, you're smarter than that. At venues where alcohol is served, wristbands have to be worn AT THE CONCESSION STANDS where alcohol is being purchased to prove you're 21 years of age. That's what they do at the OC Fair. 

You're sitting at the Honda Center watching a Ducks game, wearing a wristband that's covered by your jersey or jacket. NOBODY is going to approach you at your seat, and ask you to show them your wristband. Come on.

I guess we’ll see. I ratted out a few people last season who weren’t masking to the ushers and the ushers didn’t hesitate to ultimatum the scofflaws (i.e. wear it or leave).  I think we may find the staff being pretty aggressive about it over the first couple of games. 

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6 hours ago, Fisix said:

I guess we’ll see. I ratted out a few people last season who weren’t masking to the ushers and the ushers didn’t hesitate to ultimatum the scofflaws (i.e. wear it or leave).  I think we may find the staff being pretty aggressive about it over the first couple of games. 

I just hope that this season will b provide some relief and hope...and Things will not be incident for our Ducks and Ducks Fans alike who want to enjoy the game.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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10 hours ago, Fisix said:

I guess we’ll see. I ratted out a few people last season who weren’t masking to the ushers and the ushers didn’t hesitate to ultimatum the scofflaws (i.e. wear it or leave).  I think we may find the staff being pretty aggressive about it over the first couple of games. 

Yup.  That's the benefit of everyone being required ot mask.  You don't have to question whether they are vaxxed, wristbanded, whatever.  That can lead to potential confrontation.

When the rule is clear and is everyone, there is no question and they can afford ot be aggressive, no questions asked.  Once you split it, there are potential questions.  That's when you see videos of assaulting retail workers or cashiers, etc.  

That's my main concern.  The safety of the staff is more in question when you start introducing "maybe" into the scenario.  If there is no maybe, then they are more empowered to enforce with lower risk.  

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12 minutes ago, tommer-1 said:

 

I don't personally know either one of you, and I would bet that you both are good, if not very good, people.  So, keep in mind that this is the starting point for my post.

Step back for a minute and look at your statements with an objective eye.

What if all of the health agencies, etc. were requiring or mandating that you don't wear masks and/or do not get vaccinated - it was not their guideline for how to best defeat Covid-19?  Would you want the same restrictions and identification requirements for people who had decided to wear a mask and/or get the vaccine, for their own personal health and mental state? 

"Sorry, you can't attend the game/eat at the restaurant/etc. if you wish to wear a mask/have been vaccinated.  You must have your papers on you that prove you have been vaccinated or that show your doctor's sign off that you have not been vaccinated."  Would that be reasonable?

The same argument being made for people staying away if they are not vaxed/tested/masked can be made for people who are afraid of contracting Covid: just stay away, then. Don't come.  Nobody is forcing you.

I don't think your scenario, even hypothetical, makes any sense. The health agencies wouldn't be pushing out a vaccine if their advice was don't take it. They just wouldn't have pushed it out and we wouldn't have a vaccine. That's like a chef cooking you dinner and saying "here it is! i made it!...oh but don't eat it! it'll kill you! I poisoned it!"

Also, if their advice is don't wear a mask 'cause it like severely hurts you, then I don't exactly see how someone wearing a mask would hurt me. The only way that scenario works if like....their advice was to not wear masks 'cause the mask shoots out poison into the air. Otherwise, yeah, that's fine if someone else wanted to wear a mask even if the advice was to not wear one.

The whole issue is people can be unknowingly hurting other people. That's why you wear a mask. You can't just switch that around and say what if wearing a mask DID hurt other people and think it shows the other side. That's just not reality, even hypothetically.

None of these rules really have anything to do with making sure you're taking care of yourself...it's all about trying to protect everyone else around you. And also protecting themselves from lawsuits. And doing what they need to do to make sure they make money. That's why I'm onboard with gotcha....just have it be a universal rule for being in the arena. I know people will take it off to eat/drink...but that's better than trying to properly police who is who and who has what test or whatever.

I'd much rather have people out and about living the lives they want and having people wear a mask seems to create the best way for that scenario to exist.

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12 hours ago, Fisix said:

I guess we’ll see. I ratted out a few people last season who weren’t masking to the ushers and the ushers didn’t hesitate to ultimatum the scofflaws (i.e. wear it or leave).  I think we may find the staff being pretty aggressive about it over the first couple of games. 

What a snitch.

Hahaha

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2 hours ago, tommer-1 said:

What if all of the health agencies, etc. were requiring or mandating that you don't wear masks and/or do not get vaccinated - it was not their guideline for how to best defeat Covid-19?  Would you want the same restrictions and identification requirements for people who had decided to wear a mask and/or get the vaccine, for their own personal health and mental state?

If the data showed that getting a vaccine or wearing a mask somehow created a danger to others, then yes.  Restrictions like that have been in place for decades for schools, military, and even during prior pandemics.  It's not a new thing, so whichever way it goes, I'm fine with it.  

2 hours ago, tommer-1 said:

"Sorry, you can't attend the game/eat at the restaurant/etc. if you wish to wear a mask/have been vaccinated.  You must have your papers on you that prove you have been vaccinated or that show your doctor's sign off that you have not been vaccinated."  Would that be reasonable?

The same argument being made for people staying away if they are not vaxed/tested/masked can be made for people who are afraid of contracting Covid: just stay away, then. Don't come.  Nobody is forcing you.

I disagree.  One of them is going to be backed by public health departments and one won't.  The one that is should keep their freedom to go places.  The ones who have made the conscious decision to do otherwise are the ones who have to wade through consequences and inconveniences, just like always.  Again, this is not new.  Luckily, they are setting up guidelines where neither has to stay home, at least for now.

But in the end, my main input is for the safety of the staff.  If they involve the staff in having to deteremine if someone is supposed to wear a mask or not, you open them up for confrontation.  I think it is in the best interests to require vaccines or test results, but once past the door, simplify the rule to just keep everyone masked.  Especially considering that us vaxxed folks can still spread (albeit a mlower risk to do so), might as well be safer than not until we are at a number we can handle and live with.   

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1 hour ago, gotchabari said:

If the data showed that getting a vaccine or wearing a mask somehow created a danger to others, then yes.  Restrictions like that have been in place for decades for schools, military, and even during prior pandemics.  It's not a new thing, so whichever way it goes, I'm fine with it.  

I disagree.  One of them is going to be backed by public health departments and one won't.  The one that is should keep their freedom to go places.  The ones who have made the conscious decision to do otherwise are the ones who have to wade through consequences and inconveniences, just like always.  Again, this is not new.  Luckily, they are setting up guidelines where neither has to stay home, at least for now.

But in the end, my main input is for the safety of the staff.  If they involve the staff in having to determine if someone is supposed to wear a mask or not, you open them up for confrontation.  I think it is in the best interests to require vaccines or test results, but once past the door, simplify the rule to just keep everyone masked.  Especially considering that us vaxxed folks can still spread (albeit a mlower risk to do so), might as well be safer than not until we are at a number we can handle and live with.   

We've never quarantined people who were not sick, or were not showing symptoms, or who already had the virus and developed antibodies, though.  In any other situation like this.  Kinda weird. And that is what in essence you are doing by not allowing healthy/antibody-carrying people into the arena.  It's all based around either a vaccine or constant testing.  How many times a week will someone have to get tested for a M-W-F-SUN homestand? Twice at least right? 

I agree with not putting the staff in a bad position.  That's just a bad idea. You can't try to make them into some type of enforcement arm.

 

My sense it that it is mainly a legal issue.  They don't want any liability should something happen. I think that is what almost all of the mandates/lockdowns/work-at-home stuff has been about.

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3 minutes ago, tommer-1 said:

We've never quarantined people who were not sick, or were not showing symptoms, or who already had the virus and developed antibodies, though.  In any other situation like this.  Kinda weird.

First, we have done that before.  Typhoid Mary being the prime example of someone who was quarantined despite being all those things.  I'm not saying her case was handled all that well by the powers that be, but she got out of quarantine and ended up infecting more people, some of whom died, because she was an asymptomatic carrier of typhoid fever.

Second, while not being as deadly as typhoid, this virus has acted in ways that mean people who are not sick or showing symptoms can pass it along to others who might get sick and die from it.  People who have had it might contract it again (and then pass it along).  Being vaccinated and wearing a mask are no guarantees, but those things help stifle the spread and help reduce the risk of getting seriously ill for people who are indoors with a lot of other people.  I don't think asking people to get a vaccine or get a test is too much to ask if they want to attend an indoor sporting event.

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Back to the Topic at hand..I am hoping the Ponda will be place of Unity,Hockey and Social Gathering...Locals need it.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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the more you guys talk about it, the more i think about the staff.  the elevator attendants we see every game and our regular seat usher are all on the older side.  being a vaccine and mask nazi is totally worth it to keep those people healthy.  

regardless, i'll definitely be doing my best not to contribute to any problems.

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15 hours ago, tommer-1 said:

We've never quarantined people who were not sick, or were not showing symptoms, or who already had the virus and developed antibodies, though.  In any other situation like this.  Kinda weird. And that is what in essence you are doing by not allowing healthy/antibody-carrying people into the arena.  

As has been pointed out, we have.  And this time we've been quarantining those potentially exposed, so we can't call them healthy.  It's Schroedinger's cat.

Antibody levels for formerly ill for a short period, then drop off precipitously.   That's why there were early studies saying having it was stronger, only to be updated later once they tested again.  It's also very specific to whatever strain the person had.

All that being said, who is keeping healthy people out of the arena?  They're letting people in who provide proof that they're very likely healthy via one of two methods.

We may be crossing reality with hypotheticals at this point.

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Guys Let's be grateful our Ducks and Honda Center is doing their best to ensure this Curse does not spread...let's focus on this season..our Ducks 29th in NHL and Futures they have...i am AMPED to see what they can do to Contribute.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

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2 hours ago, gotchabari said:

As has been pointed out, we have.  And this time we've been quarantining those potentially exposed, so we can't call them healthy.  It's Schroedinger's cat.

Antibody levels for formerly ill for a short period, then drop off precipitously.   That's why there were early studies saying having it was stronger, only to be updated later once they tested again.  It's also very specific to whatever strain the person had.

All that being said, who is keeping healthy people out of the arena?  They're letting people in who provide proof that they're very likely healthy via one of two methods.

We may be crossing reality with hypotheticals at this point.

Saying that people potentially exposed to a virus are "not healthy" and justifying quarantines that way.... I dunno...... I think a lot of people are wondering how far you're willing to take this. Roughly 50% of influenza infections are asymptomatic, and it's been estimated that asymptomatic carriers of influenza transmit the virus to about 6% of household contacts (which may be even higher than the asymptomatic transmission rate of SARS-CoV-2). Influenza kills between 250,000 and 500,000 people worldwide each year, which is obviously less than the acute pandemic stage of COVID-19 has been, but is likely to be more than endemic COVID-19 will be once we reach a certain level of infection and vaccines have been equitably distributed worldwide. Annual flu vaccines are also generally between 40%-60% effective (some years as low as 10%), and you just know that influenza is going to come roaring back in the next couple of years after its virtual disappearance over the past 18 months. Plus, hockey is a winter sport with a regular season that coincides almost exactly with the CDC's definition of "flu season". So where are we once COVID-19 subsides and flu is back? And how about other highly transmissible respiratory illnesses like Respiratory Syncytial Virus (RSV), which can also transmit asymptomatically and has relatively high mortality rates for the elderly and young children, and for which there is no vaccine? Or other coronaviruses. I've read that HCoV-OC43 and HCoV-229E have estimated case fatality rates of >10% among the elderly, even though they cause mild cold symptoms or are asymptomatic in most people. Really, aren't we all, to a certain extent, Schroedinger's cat when it comes to transmissible viruses? 

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19 hours ago, Gorbachav55 said:

First, we have done that before.  Typhoid Mary being the prime example of someone who was quarantined despite being all those things.  I'm not saying her case was handled all that well by the powers that be, but she got out of quarantine and ended up infecting more people, some of whom died, because she was an asymptomatic carrier of typhoid fever.

Second, while not being as deadly as typhoid, this virus has acted in ways that mean people who are not sick or showing symptoms can pass it along to others who might get sick and die from it.  People who have had it might contract it again (and then pass it along).  Being vaccinated and wearing a mask are no guarantees, but those things help stifle the spread and help reduce the risk of getting seriously ill for people who are indoors with a lot of other people.  I don't think asking people to get a vaccine or get a test is too much to ask if they want to attend an indoor sporting event.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Typhoid Mary was arrested based on circumstantial evidence of her infection, but she was not sentenced to quarantine until after she was tested and she was determined to have extremely high levels of the bacteria in her system that caused Typhoid. Seems to me that's a bit different than quarantining people before they are even tested, just based on who they may have been in contact with.

There are also important differences in Typhoid and SARS-CoV-2 that I think make the situations non-comparable. Typhoid is caused by bacteria in feces. SARS-CoV-2 is a virus transmitted in the air by droplets and aerosols. There's a giant slippery slope in there if you're relying on the case of Typhoid Mary's extraordinary fecal bacteria levels to justify quarantining anyone who may have come into contact with an aerosolized viral particle.

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48 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Typhoid Mary was arrested based on circumstantial evidence of her infection, but she was not sentenced to quarantine until after she was tested and she was determined to have extremely high levels of the bacteria in her system that caused Typhoid. Seems to me that's a bit different than quarantining people before they are even tested, just based on who they may have been in contact with.

There are also important differences in Typhoid and SARS-CoV-2 that I think make the situations non-comparable. Typhoid is caused by bacteria in feces. SARS-CoV-2 is a virus transmitted in the air by droplets and aerosols. There's a giant slippery slope in there if you're relying on the case of Typhoid Mary's extraordinary fecal bacteria levels to justify quarantining anyone who may have come into contact with an aerosolized viral particle.

You're extrapolating my point way too far.  Here's the thing: get vaccinated or get a negative test and then come to a hockey game.  That's it.  It's reasonable, it's relatively effective, and it means you don't have to quarantine.  

Otherwise, if you're going to be cavalier about other people's health, then stay home.  I don't have any problem with that.  And I don't find this to be a slippery slope at all - we're in a pandemic; it's a unique circumstance.  Once it's under control, we can begin relaxing some of these measures.

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3 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

So where are we once COVID-19 subsides and flu is back? And how about other highly transmissible respiratory illnesses like Respiratory Syncytial Virus (RSV), which can also transmit asymptomatically and has relatively high mortality rates for the elderly and young children, and for which there is no vaccine? 

We'll likely be where we were before.  We'll also likely have to accept the 30-40k per year US deaths level fo the flu(s) for COVID, too.  We just need to get it down to that level.

It's not whether there are vaccines or ot, it's the Rt number.  When it easily gets over 1 combined with a decent mortality rate, you take action.  It's just that easy.  It's not a head scratcher as to where we go in the future with normal diseases where we have already established an acceptable amount of death.  We have not with COVID.  The reason "the flu vaccine is 40%-60% effective" is because "the flu" is over 150 virsues, and the vaccine is a guess as to which ones will be hot this season.  So if we can keep COVID down to 10 or so variants and don't let it get too far out of hand, we can have a vaccine and booster that is effective enough to keep us at that flu death count level.  

And this is where we are right now, the "don't let it get too far out of hand" zone.  Much like war rationing that was said to become permanent by some, it didn't happen.  There's no value in it.

Edited by gotchabari
Clarifying

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16 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

Saying that people potentially exposed to a virus are "not healthy" and justifying quarantines that way.... I dunno...... I think a lot of people are wondering how far you're willing to take this. Roughly 50% of influenza infections are asymptomatic, and it's been estimated that asymptomatic carriers of influenza transmit the virus to about 6% of household contacts (which may be even higher than the asymptomatic transmission rate of SARS-CoV-2). Influenza kills between 250,000 and 500,000 people worldwide each year, which is obviously less than the acute pandemic stage of COVID-19 has been, but is likely to be more than endemic COVID-19 will be once we reach a certain level of infection and vaccines have been equitably distributed worldwide. Annual flu vaccines are also generally between 40%-60% effective (some years as low as 10%), and you just know that influenza is going to come roaring back in the next couple of years after its virtual disappearance over the past 18 months. Plus, hockey is a winter sport with a regular season that coincides almost exactly with the CDC's definition of "flu season". So where are we once COVID-19 subsides and flu is back? And how about other highly transmissible respiratory illnesses like Respiratory Syncytial Virus (RSV), which can also transmit asymptomatically and has relatively high mortality rates for the elderly and young children, and for which there is no vaccine? Or other coronaviruses. I've read that HCoV-OC43 and HCoV-229E have estimated case fatality rates of >10% among the elderly, even though they cause mild cold symptoms or are asymptomatic in most people. Really, aren't we all, to a certain extent, Schroedinger's cat when it comes to transmissible viruses? 

I just read something about there being an mRNA based vaccine for RSA. The blurb was about having 6 mRNA vaccines in one shot, spread across each of COVID, RSA, and the flu, and how the efficacy wasn’t diminished by having all three disease vaccines in one inoculation. Let me see if I can find that tab I just closed. 
 

here we go:

https://mobile.twitter.com/moderna_tx/status/1435978825377136641?s=12

Edited by Fisix

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So, now that we'e actually had games, the report is that the rules are there just to check the boxes and that safety or the like is not a concern of the arena in the least bit.

1. There is no serious check on your vaccination card.  They just look at it briefly.  For my second game, they didn't even look at it, and when I asked the secondary person if they were going to check it, she yelled back at the first person who was supposed to check.  She just giggled and said she forgot because she was talkign to a co-worker.

2. They don't check ID, so your test result or card could be from anyone.

3. There is no process for identifying those that are unvaxxed, so everyone basically unmasks once inside.  

We've been unmasked because there hasd been vast space around us.  Once it gets a little more crowded, we might just mask up again.  My wife gets cold in there and likes the warmth, anyhow.  

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Mostly had the same experience.  We did have one security person require the ID check against the card.

Once inside, it's a free for all.  We still mask up unless we're in our seats.  

Truth be told, just the stated requirement and the minimal checking on the entrance probably gets us +95% of the way to safety.  It's all statistics at this point, and they've done enough to keep the risk manageable.

 

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At the game last night.  Covid/security checks went surprisingly smooth.  However, not a fan of the new cashless concessions.  The arena was perhaps 50-70 percent full, but my food order took almost the whole intermission because my order got "lost."  Ordering using the touch screen took twice as long as a cash transaction.  From a Covid standpoint, it couldn't be that good with everyone touching the same screens, and what if you don't HAVE a credit/debit card?  I assume since this is so new, they'll get the bugs worked out and it'll be more efficient.  But what happens when they get a capacity crowd?  Potential nightmare in the making...

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I can get through the touch screen order way faster than talking to the concessions worker, both open face and masked. 

I’m not sure how you have a ticket to the game if you don’t have a credit card. 

Hand sanitizer, and the work staff doesn’t touch the money or the screen, and they’d be the community spreaders. 

Sucks your order got lost. I haven’t had that happen. 

I think for a sold out crowd, it’d be nice if they had more touch screens. I they have 2 per kiosk?  They could also open additional kiosks (many are still closed), but they’ve had a difficult time hiring people to fill necessary spots. 

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